Richard Garriott's kickstarter: Shroud of the Avatar

Anyone backing this?

I loved the later Ultima games (7, 8, 9) and am curious to see if he can make an interesting current gen game in the same vein. But the timing seems very unfortunate, I just backed the new Torment game and then this suddenly appears in my inbox. I backed it with $1 now.

I refuse to give money to a man who both owns a castle and went to space.

Dude's last two games were Ultima 9 and Tabula Rasa

ya, those were both reaaaaaaaaaally good games......

I liked Tabula Rasa a lot but it wasn't fleshed out enough at all. But yeah I put about as much trust in him as I put trust in myself not eating a pizza pie that steaming in front of my face.

I love the man's early work up until Ultima 8. Everything after that is either a train wreck or just not my bag, so I've got some serious doubts about this being anything more than a poorly disguised Facebook game.

Also, I'm laughing really hard at the first reward for the Kickstarter:

"Thank Lord British and prove your virtue with a $10 donation. If you ever pirated an Ultima game or used an exploit to grief other players in Ultima Online, here’s your chance to repent! For your $10 donation you will receive a clear conscience and Lord British's undying gratitude."

I think I'll wait and see what more information comes up in updates/vlogs.

Didn´t he have to sell his castle? I remember reading about something along those lines. Probably to pay for space trippin´.

Edit: I guess he still owns it. One of the top rewards is getting a tour of that place.

I'm done with Kickstarter until I see Shadowrun and TAKEDOWN are out.

whats a paladin?

Yeah when you put it like that, Richard Garriott looks pretty insane asking for money.

How much did he pay to go to space again ? 30 million ?

Thanks for the offer Richard, but I'll keep my money.

When you put it that way... yeah. Also, the last games this man made were Tabula Rasa and Ultima IX. Not exactly seminal classics. Also, this game is a MMO of some sort. All of these things unsell me.

Well rich people stay rich by not risking their own money. Tabula Rasa made him money and killed a couple of companies along the way.

You are right though. It is easier to throw money at a couple of bedroom coders than it is something like this. Even if he didn't want to fund it himself a VC or publisher would have taken him on based on his name alone, but he might have had to give up the IP. A lot of successful people see crowd funding less as the last resort and more of cheap, risk free loans.

Duder that pizza is hot. Let it sit for a while or you'll burn your mouth.

Ultima 9 had a lot of great ideas and was a bit too ambitious for it's time but the concepts where great. Would love to see that game fully realized. 8 on the other hand, was pretty crappy.

I'm not a fan of crowdfunding to begin with, but I find established names and studios asking for money to be disgusting. They have the connections and resources to pitch ideas to investors. This is just trying to get money without any responsibility to investors

Guy has some fucking nerve.

why on earth would I give Richard Garriott money to do anything at all? At the very best, his games have only ever been just OK.

Yeah especially when no real investor would invest in Richard Garriott these days. To me this basically says "People who are payed to know what to do with money think giving me money is a bad idea, but you clearly aren't them, so give me money?"

I just noticed on the wikipedia page of Portalarium (Richard Garriott's game company) that they got $7 million in VC funding back in july 2012. So it looks like "real investors" did invest, which makes this kickstarter appear all the more dodgy. I still want to see this game being made though, but I doubt I will up my pledge beyond that one dollar ;)

On top of this, to the people saying he isn't that rich anymore - I refuse to give money to someone who once had enough money to buy a castle and is now forced to crowdsource his projects.

Hmmmm...

This looks kind of lame visually. I don't expect too much, but just looking at it I guess that's why I prefer art styles we've seen from say Shadowrun.

What it's reminding me a lot of from a visual and baseline persepctive at least of is Mount and Blade, but the draw there is the combat on top of the rest of the dressing. I feel like Mount and Blade plus what is outlined would be great. As is? Not sure.

Is it an MMO? I was getting those vibes but it doesn't outright say it.

EDIT: Actually now that I look more in depth, especially at the rewards which deal mostly with real estate, it seems like yes it is one. VERY dodgy that it doesn't outright say that it's that type of game anywhere.

EDIT AGAIN: So more digging, seems like it pulls people into your game at random? So yeah kind of an MMO? Not sure how it totally works. So almost an MMO.

To sum it up:
- He refuses to name any team members/provide team size.

-Gives an unclear game concept despite having what looks like pre-alpha footage (MMO? single-player? micro-transactions? in-game economy a la EVE Online?).

- No info on what the money will be used on (he has a pre-alpha already after all).

- Talks a lot without saying anything at all:

The familiar psychological profiling used to create your character, organically derived game-play responses to player behavior and fundamental virtues and consequence of actions will all play a huge role in Shroud of the Avatar. Players will be free to choose their path, but must then live with the consequences of their actions.

- And last but by no means least:

Shroud of the Avatar general features:

From Lord British's Treatise on "What is an Ultimate RPG?":

• Fully interactive virtual world - If it looks usable, it should do something
• Deep original fiction - Ethical parables, cultural histories, fully developed alternate language text
• Physical game components will be available: Cloth map, fictional manuals, trinkets
• Multiplayer Online Game - which can also be played solo player / offline

Just.... *sigh*.

I’m sick of hearing about “hey, I’m a semi-famous game developer, give me money to make a game” Kickstarters. This stuff seems exploitative, manipulative, and contrary to the sprit of the service.

If he’s got this great game up his sleeve and has the skills and sway to pull it off, why can’t he get a publisher, investor(s) or a loan to finish it himself? You know, the way businesses have worked for the rest of modern capitalist history.

At the very least, I don’t see why people invest in these rather than waiting it out — if it works out, you’ll be able to buy it for a little more, and if it doesn’t, you’re not on the hook. Are you really interested in volunteering to beta testing a game or getting what amounts to pre-order bonuses? A developer would have to have a pretty spotless track record for me to make a bet on them, which is essentially what a Kickstarter donation is.

There's a video on IGN... it looks pretty alright. I'm not donating, but I don't really have a reason why. Just.. meh.

The IGN 5 minute vid actually makes a better job of explaining the game than the whole Kickstarter page does.

I think that's missing the point slightly. Most of these developers are choosing not to go with publishers/investors, because they want to retain full control over their games. Project Eternity and Wasteland, for example, are old school RPG's that publishers would never let them make these days. Publisher involvement is why we end up with games like Dragon Age 2.

The same is true of other classic franchises. Thanks to crowd funding, we're getting a classic, 2D point & click, Broken Sword game. With publishers, we saw adventure games devolve into bad, 3D quasi-Tomb Raider clones.

That's exactly why people pledge. Kickstarter shouldn't be seen as a means to pre-order games years in advance, but to put support behind good ideas and products you want to see made. I'm happy to put down money for some of these titles, just to say "yes, this is a good idea and it should be made without investors meddling to make it have more mainstream appeal". Maybe the final game won't turn out to be fantastic.. but that's worth the risk in a lot of cases.

Can't say I'm interested in backing this project though.

@wintersnowblind said:

I get that in theory, but considering how volatile game development can be, it’s a really risky wager you’re making. At least with many Kickstarters, the product is a tangible thing that either is or isn’t what it claims to be. There’s only so much that can go wrong with an iPhone dock, and given what a mess what some of those projects have ended up being, even they aren’t good investments.

It doesn’t help that he’s making a lot of Molyneux-esque lofty promises despite not really having a lot of note (besides Tabula Rasa, which doesn’t sound particularly special) under his belt in the past 10+ years.

This man is like a millionair who went to space and shit. Why the fuck does he need a kickstarter?

Their recent update clarifies that the game can be played entirely offline, single player. But it does seem to be very MMO as soon as you go online.

No he's Richard Garriot, of course he can find a publisher but he would rather have investors that he doesn't have to give equity to.

I love how the kickstarter page points out that some of the members of the team has worked on NBA JAM for the original xbox.

I've had it with this Kickstarter thing, at least until the games that I paid for come out. And even then I'm going to start being much more wary of backing projects. If it's a big studio, a big name, or somebody with a lot of money they shouldn't be doing it. Seek other avenues of making your game if you have this amazing idea. Kickstarter is supposed to be for independent developers in my opinion. I get not wanting publisher involvement... but is really going hat in hand out to the player the better alternative? If someone fucks this up, and make no mistake someone will fuck it up sooner rather than later, the backlash is going to be biblical. One of these bigger assholes will ruin it entirely for the independents because it will scare people away from crowd funding.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but screw it. When I hear stories about developers approaching Obsidian to put their game on Kickstarter because it means a quick buck it worries me. The wolves have already got the scent of the cash cow and are quickly circling in for the kill.

Raised a million dollars 0_o

What a great question. I wonder if I am the only person who gets the joke, or just the only one silly enough to respond.

Personally I didn't back this for two reasons. 1: Didn't really pitch the game that well. It seriously gives no impression on what the games about or why I should want to play it. It is a classic ultima but .... it clearly isn't based on the stuff happening on the screen? 2: It is Richard Garriot and Ultima... he has enough die hard fans he will make the goal with or without me anyway.