The vtuber thread

I've seen more than a few references to vtubers around here at this point, and I'm in a posting mood, so I figured I'd take a shot at making this topic now. I'm not going to position myself as an expert on the subject, but I'll try to provide a general introduction to the vtuber scene with what knowledge I have.

Vtubers tend to be 2D or 3D anime or cartoon style characters being puppeteered by a YouTube or Twitch streamer. Content and activities can range anywhere from your standard chatting stream, to gameplay and commentary, to stuff like ASMR, musical performances and beyond.

For example, you have stuff like hololive's Takanashi Kiara's latest 3D Birthday performance using a home-made 3D studio setup:

Or VShojo's Projekt Melody touring Anime Expo using a screen/camera setup and the help of some staff:

Or even Kson appearing in-person at AX cosplaying as her vtuber self:

Vtubing really started to take off during the onset of the Pandemic. At first, you mainly had big names in Japan like Kizuna Ai and Kaguya Luna paving the way. Now there are countless companies, indies, and brands around the world dishing out vtubing content on a daily basis. You may have heard of hololive, nijisanji, or VShojo, but there are also independent personalities and artists, as well as Brands that range from Sony to Crunchyroll all the way down to specific franchises like Sonic the Hedgehog and Kemono Friends with (sometimes multiple) vtuber talents attached to them.

Big in-person events have also become more common. With companies like hololive booking event halls and selling out tickets for concerts and conventions. They've also have had an increasingly large presence at anime and gaming conventions in both the US and Japan. Several vtubers have hit various streaming milestones in the past few years, often standing toe to toe with other active streamers. While there was plenty of worry early on about this being a fad, it seems pretty clear that vtubers have carved out a solid niche by now.

So... Are you interested in discussing or sharing vtuber stuff at all? ...Are YOU a vtuber?

Vtubers have replaced all of the things I used to watch online, sorry to Old(er) and New Giant Bomb.

I spend most of my time watching Nijisanji EN but a fair bit of Hololive as well. Not a whole lot of time for the independents, no offense them but there are simply too many and I'm not going to go seeking them out.

The only one I like is Nyanners, and that's mainly because of her cover of Bad and Boujee.

That said, being emotionally overwhelmed by multi-hundred dollar donations while "playing a fucking porn game" is a mood.

It seems harmless at most, and like it could provide a level of much-needed anonymity for people who tend to have...fans that let passion overwhelm common-sense, let's say. Especially with how much more access online content creators tend to offer than "traditional" celebrities.

Even Strongbad's getting in on it!

The first vtuber I watched was Hana Macchia because she played Helltaker and the usual channels I watched weren't covering it. I found her charming and from there I started looking for her translated clips. That opened me up to others, like Pikamee. I tried to steer clear of Hololive for a while because I knew how big it was. But eventually my walls were shattered by Korone and Okayu.

I don't watch streams or full VODs for the most part; just subscribe to many clippers and animators. It still takes a fair chunk of time to keep up with. There are a lot of entertaining and talented people out there, both on the vtuber side and the fan community.

Wait, vtubers are still a thing?

@csl316: What do you mean, they are only increasing.

@efesell: I honestly thought it was a fad that lasted for a few months.

@csl316: Well, no.

There are multiple huge companies that have dozens of them signed and more and more independent streamers either debuting as one or in some cases just transitioning into it.

It's probably here to stay.

With it being a combination of Japanese Idol and Streamer culture, a lot of Vtubing is just naturally off-putting to me as someone who has been off put by both those things prior to the rise of Vtubers. Most of my issues there are with the how the industry is run, not with the performers.

As far as my purely personal tastes go for the content itself though, I'm not really someone who is interested in watching full playthroughs of games, nor am I interested in seeing someone playing a character in my video games coverage (outside of Dan Ryckert). Because of this, I don't tend to watch streams, and if I do, it's usually something non-gaming related, and even then, I only check in for a few minutes before moving on with my day.

All that being said, my youtube recommendations are constantly filled up with vtuber clips. I usually feel compelled to click on at least one a day. Most of the time, it tends to be something involving Subaru.

@brian_: Yeah the Idol culture stuff is why I still side eye Hololive a lot. It's much less of a thing with Nijisanji and even the English side of Hololive but whenever it does crop up it's usually from Idol fans and it gets really gross really fast.

Most of my vtuber watching is primarily through JShay Translated, who translates highlights from Korone and Okayu. A lot of the ones I’m aware of play a wide variety of stuff. These popular games like Among Us, but people like Korone will also go back and play Resident Evil 4 and Super Mario Bros.

I think the tech is also very amusing. There is a random popular clip of Korone where she accidentally had her angry face on and somebody asked “Why is she angry”. It can be funny when the tracking gets lost when people have to stand up or they lean back really far.

Aside from that, I think some of the vtubers are legit funny. Or rather there are funny highlight clips. If I watch an unedited video, it is typically one where they are speaking English. Otherwise I watch a translated version.

I think the mix of idol elements is kinda weird. I do support or join (whatever it’s called) Korone’s channel, but that only costs like $7 a month and I’m never going to give more than that. I have seen random stuff from their concerts and group get togethers, but that’s not really for me. There’s occasionally some funny / weird tech stuff when people move around in a weird way, but that’s about it.

@efesell: I'm not super familiar with Nijisanji. I never get any of their stuff in my recommendations, and I'm just not invested enough in the content to search for anything on my own. Hololive seems to dominate my recommendations. Some Vshojo stuff gets thrown in there too. I used to get a lot more of Pikame stuff, but I can't remember the last time I saw anything from her or her group in my recommendations. Youtube algorithms are a cruel master, I suppose.

Vtubers are here to stay I guess, and I'm not Vtuber, although the dynamic interests me a lot. 😁

also does anyone else who is not from the USA or UK, watch "local" Vtubers? 😀

There's been a lot popping up in my country recently and other neighbouring countries too, each of them using local languages and or dual language with EN or english at least. 👏

They are a thing and they're staying now. kaput. 🤣

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yeah, the Idol "industry" culture, really does throw a wrench into the works when it starts bubbling up into issues left and right, 🤨

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shubashubashubashuba. 🤣 shuba duck. 🦆

yeah I also am compelled to click on Vtuber clips multiple times a day, ranging from a few seconds to 5 minutes. 🤣

This does nothing for me. Although girl_dm seems wholesome. Ish.

The idol industry stuff is interesting, because for my money that perception of vtubing ultimately comes down to hololive taking up so much space in the conversation and having that angle be it's entire thing. However, in my opinion vtubing taken as a whole isn't really all that different from regular streaming aside from an extra helping of fantasy. You could argue that a lot of major streamers do something similar with building characters and worlds around their streaming personas and their interactions with other streamers and their fans.

People like to compare vtubing to wrestling a lot because of the 'kayfabe' element, but again the idea of a performer putting on a persona that is just their regular self cranked up to 11 isn't really exclusive to vtubing. I think the earliest and easiest example I can give is someone like The Angry Video Game Nerd. Regardless of what you think about him now, James Rolfe created an entire character and universe around his online persona that was a massive hit, and also very clearly something separate from reality that generated a lot of fan interaction and merch.

What interests me about vtubing, aside from the content is the tech and watching streamers figure out and define what vtubing even is. Even beyond the question of whether a vtuber is an idol, the questions around anonymity and identity continue to be lines being drawn and re-drawn. One of the most commonly accepted aspects of vtubing people assume draws streamers to it is the ability to hide your face and name, which can be a true godsend for people who considered themselves too shy or fearful to stream regularly. That's certainly true, and it's amazing to see people like that find a space to express themselves, but as time has gone on we've seen more vtubers blend vtubing and 'normal' streaming, or openly have vtuber content to go along with their regular, in-person content. That can absolutely lead to backlash or drama, but a surprising amount of crossover between vtubing and fleshtubing has been going on as the medium has evolved. Throw in the fact that using a vtuber model, with which anyone can look like anything, and you've got a space where people can explore themselves and how they want to be perceived in meaningful ways.

Maybe it’s just who I watch but vtubers seem to keep up a character for like a week after debut and then they’re just normal streamers.

@csl316: with their sexy avatars and loli voices vtubers tap into a very lucrative and large part of the stream watching demographic.

I got in at the beginning of Holo Myth, i was watching the JP members and thought the new English speaking group was kinda cringey, maybe i thought the difference in language and culture had lost the magic i don't know but i quickly came around, it's also really hard to watch these nervous girls debut when you speak the same language and they're still trying to play a character, it takes a while for them to loosen up.

The people they hired for the EN side are a brilliant bunch, Myth is obviously legendary for bringing vtubers to the west but i'm really attached to Council+Hope now too, i do watch some outside Hololive but not too often, there's a different vibe at Nijisanji that i'm not totally into but i loved watching Pomu play through the MGS series this year, i don't like VShojo they're a bit too... i don't know, rude, crude, i think Twitch chat has a lot to do with that.

I've never enjoyed watching streamers who are pro gamers, and i can't handle the millennial/gen z whatever you want to call them dyed hair RGB crowd, so my thing ended up being a bunch of girls with basic gaming skills checking out games having casual fun, never would have guessed, it's just a simple innocent thing i can feel good about being a part of.

Even though I do swing more towards Nijisanji I think my favorite thing of late has been Fauna's series of Skyrim streams which has been a tremendous balance of very relaxing and completely bizarre.

I've told this story like a dozen times now, but here we go:

I had only ever saw random clips of folks from the bigger companies for a while. I had also been streaming for years and never shown my face because being on camera makes my skin crawl, along with some minor health concerns.

I watched a video from Ironmouse with her telling her story, and how being a vtuber lets her feel more herself as well as better connect with her community. This made it click for me, and I then debuted my own model a little under a year ago.

It has been a blast, my existing community responded very well to it, and it lets me mess with a bunch of new streaming tech all the time.

Vshojo's group is a wild bunch, but hilarious. If you aren't aware of Ironmouse, you should at least go watch a video talking about her history and story. It is truly inspiring. There are ton of independent folks out there worth checking out, too (I know friends will call me out if I don't mention Vshojo adjacent folks like Buffpup/Snuffy/Haruka, but you should also check out variety streamers like PeacheyPill, Zuaniich/Zuan, MonikaCinnyRoll, Theonemanny, art streamers like Midimayo, etc).

(Or me, I guess, if you have interest in a variety streamer who is a Sentient AI Vtuber)

If I ever went down that route, I'd just pre-record all that business in character. Full control of the narrative down to chat interactions and all that. If anyone starts asking questions, "Ah, it's a VoD from a stream you missed."

@efesell: Remember that time when Faendal randomly learned necromancy and started forming his own party?

I have never felt older.

Yeah, I'm all-in at this point.

Like a few others, Myth was the real starter - I'd seen a few clips of vtubers like Kizuna Ai and Korone previously (especially the latter), but it was the debut of Holomyth that got me on board. I think the "Westernization" of vtubers probably helped a lot because with the debut of Myth and the rise of Nijisanji-EN and VShojo there started to be an increasing trend of people being less "in character" or feeling pressured to use high-pitched voices. Some of my all time favourite moments are the likes of Ame & Calli at debut where they start in a fake voice and then quickly break into their actual normal voice. I'm willing to acknowledge also that I have a high tolerance for what some might describe as "anime bullshit" which I think makes it a lot easier to slide into the world of vtubers where some people might find it more uncomfortable.

I love vtubing as a concept primarily as a way for people to stream with reactions without having to be directly on camera (especially as someone who hates being on camera themselves), but also because I love seeing the art side of it (watching Juniper hand-animate her own models on stream is great). So I'm all for vtubers who are just themselves but with a cool avatar, though I don't have a problem with ones who affect more of a voice or personality if that's what works for them. I loved watching Snuffy's decision to switch to her more natural voice, being super nervous that people wouldn't be accepting, and the chat just popping off and telling her that her "real" voice sounded great.

I consume the vast majority of my vtuber content through clips because who has the time for full streams, but I do sometimes throw the occasional stream up in the background if I happen to catch it going live and I don't have much else going on at the time. All of Hololive English (Myth, Council, Hope) are fantastic, plus I do catch some of the other Hololive members (Marine, Ollie, Korone, Pekora, Subaru, Risu, Nene leap out at a glance).

I've branched a lot more out into the other companies of late though - at first Hololive was definitely dominant because that was where I got in. I think there's definitely questions to be had around the way that company acts from a very "idol" perspective, but I admire what the people themselves do within that system. If you're after non-Hololive recommendations, some of my other faves now are Snuffy, Buffpup, Finana, Kson, LordAethelstan, JuniperActias, Elly_VT, Vienna, Ironmouse, Nyanners, Yuzu, Froot, OniGiriEN, Yoclesh, Saruei, and Projektmelody.

I haven't sought out a Vtuber stream myself yet, but i tend to come across some Vtube chatter here and there. I'm sure that if i found a fun Vtuber i could see myself enjoying myself and seeking that person out more. But at the same time, the same goes for all those human streamers that i could choose to try to get into, but haven't. I don't know if blocking out the human aspect makes a streamer more appealing to me. Part of the para-social relationship you develop with someone is because you start to feel like you get to know the person on the other side of the screen. But when there's a layer of V-tuber tech and a company between you and the streamer, i figure that that effect is diminished and it becomes harder to relate to someone.

What concerns me is that the people that talk about Vtubers seem to always talk about the companies that are platforming these V-tubers and how drama can arise between the 'talent' and the 'company' and then suddenly there's a new Vtuber to watch. That sounds like a huge turn off to me and i would much rather tune into a person trying to run their own stream from their bedroom than attaching my loyalty to some company and their talent that they might replace at some point. It just doesn't sound very grassroots at all. There are so many entertaining people running streams and making videos on their own.

I do think using a Vtuber avatar makes sense for people that want to run an entertainment stream but don't want their face to be online. At the same time, that doesn't necessarily entice me more as a viewer to prioritize watching this person over the tenthousands of people that do choose to put their face online. There's just so much content out there, that i've already found a handful of online humans i can relate to and enjoy that i haven't ever felt the need to figure out which of the avatars harbor an enjoyable person behind it.

I do think i once saw a girl that had a really expensive suit made for online streams and that was a novel watch from a technological viewpoint. And i think there was a V-tuber girl that interviewed artists at a festival once. Is that the draw? seeing how the tech evolves over time and how it changes the Vtuber you've followed throughout the years?

Ehh... I dunno. I think the parasocial aspect might be even worse with vtubers, it's at least As Bad.

There's also a few of them who have been... irresponsible lately with how they play their characters and it has backfired on them rather badly at times.

@efesell: Is that because people want to find out the mystery behind the avatar? Or because they identify with the V-tuber avatar?

I just think about the Cracking The Cryptic guys and how this very british middle-aged man seems to sit in the upstairs work-room while his kids run around downstairs and then he slowly but surely reveals himself to be a starcraft 2 nerd that uses the most typical british shouts of excitement when he cracks a sudoku puzzle and i giggle at the idea that this guy is now a fairly decent internet-celebrity while his neighbors probably hardly have a clue about it.

Or even how a Vinny Caravella sits there in his basement with all the transformers behind him. It forms an image of the other person's life that makes it so much easier to start to relate to the other than if all i had to work with was someone's words and the V-tuber avatar. I figured people liked those Jeff Gerstmann garage streams & tiktoks because it gives a glimpse of that person's actual world that we are all curious about. I think i'm missing something.

@onemanarmyy: Not to make broad generalizations, but, as someone with an anime avatar, weirdo anime fans have been making para-social relationships with anime characters for decades. So there's definitely a group of people where the Vtuber avatar won't hinder that para-social relationship.

I don't know if I'd say vtubing blocks the human aspect, per se. You're missing out on is direct webcam footage of another human being and their movements, and that can be a real deal breaker, but beyond that there's no real difference between the kind of things they say or do compared to someone who doesn't use a vtuber model.

The company stuff is... Complicated. The best way I can describe it is it's the kind of way people talk about wrestling companies, or even stuff like Giant Bomb compared to Kinda Funny or whatever. Not exactly great, but again not something I consider unique to vtubing. I mean, we just had all the drama here recently with the changes in staff and like... The stuff you're talking about when it comes to vtuber companies is just that.

The tech stuff and anonymity is a big part of it for some people, and it's fine if that doesn't interest everyone. I've been watching vtubers since before the big break into English speaking spaces so it's fascinating to watch the medium evolve for me, but it really is also just a case of people enjoying certain streamer personalities and content in most cases. That other stuff just gets layered on top.

I also think I should clarify that when I, or anyone, talk about vtubers having characters of fantasy connected to them, that does not encompass everything they are. They're just streamers. Many of them, if not all of them, go through that exact same process of sharing their lives and developing those same dynamics. They may try to be cagey about specifics, which ties into the idea of people who get into vtubing feeling safer with that level of anonymity, but they absolutely will purposefully or accidentally grow and share more of themselves just like anyone else who puts themselves on the internet.

One of my favorite vtubers right now is Rosuuri. She's one of the first ever online artists I remember actually following online, and seeing her get into vtubing as a way to open up and converse with people has been a treat. She's not shy about talking about specifics of her life, details about what it's like being an online entrepreneur and the challenges she's faced during her career, and recently spoke on how she wishes she had had the courage to start vtubing years ago. It's all there, it's just behind an avatar.

Yeah if anything I would say that the anime avatar enhances this issue because those particular sorts of fans have a problem with recognizing that there is a person with their own life behind it and that it definitely absolutely does not involve Them.

@onemanarmyy: Concerning the talent/company relationship i remember a conversation on the bombcast about vtubers relation to the sometimes controversial idol industry in Japan, and how a vtuber's "voice actor" was replaced with someone else making the whole thing seem sketchy as hell, or how a talent can be "graduated" just because of their age or other reasons and it's always something i've wanted to bring up and put straight, especially as it also concerns the para-social relationship one might have with them.

As far as my knowledge goes it's only sort of happened once with vtubers and i assume that's what Jeff had heard about at the time, Kizuna AI's growth was slowing so her company decided to introduce more Kizuna AI's, from a character standpoint that's not the weirdest thing since she's an AI but fans who liked the person behind the character felt betrayed or sad that she might be being replaced, now there were 3 more Kizuna AI's played by different people and it didn't sit well with fans.

It didn't last long, Kizuna AI was separated from the talent agency in control of her so it was mostly about her again, i think one of her clones remained, besides that there hasn't been any other idol industry related incidents with vtubers that i know of. Real world problems have lead to graduations (i still don't really like that word) and terminations, but nothing otherwise controversial.

For me personally i do feel a sort of relationship with my favourites as you would with anyone you watch a lot of, i keep listening to the Shift+F1 podcast cus i like Drew and Danny, but when you watch someone for multi hour streams you start to learn about their lives, as much as they're willing to tell you while hiding behind an avatar, their family, pets, relationships, their anxieties, their successes, what foods they like, and despite not seeing a real human on a camera it's still a real voice from a real person, i think in some ways the reduced pressure of not being on camera is better and creates a more casual atmosphere but that varies. I'm not into anime but i still find their avatars cute, they can sometimes be surprisingly expressive in a way that's still endearing.

Watching a bit of that first vid I don't see the appeal besides maybe if you're a kid? The off key singing and shouting in-between songs is giving me a headache and it feels creepy to watch with the avatars being teen/pre-teen girls singing flirty songs.

I had a look at scamboli review's video about them as well as some other vids now and unsurprisingly it's rooted in porn. If I was looking for that (I'm not) I wouldn't go for anime avatars. If it's just about the cuteness of it, well it's not as negative even if I don't see the appeal personally. But it seems some of them like this nyanners person mix this up with sexual content in a creepy and consciuous way.

When it comes to the parasocial aspect I don't think it's necessarily worse than watching real people streaming games and how hierarchical that relationship is, but in terms of the creator being shy I think the goal should be to help them out of that rather than encourage this stuff, if they are actually doing it to cope with a dysfunctional real life situation.

@alianger: The first vid isn't a great example, he posted it because it happened recently, it's the results of the efforts of the English group not having access to the studio in Japan so one of the members set up a studio in their living space, in that respect it's impressive, but as much as i like Kiara i can't watch her birthday concert either.

Rooted in Porn? I don't get that, their appearance is rooted in cute anime girls which have existed for many decades, cute anime girls is basically the identity of Japan at this point. You don't have to look hard to find vtubers who adopt sexy avatars and act lewd to draw in a certain audience (Project Melody famously does porn streams), but this isn't unique to vtubers and assuming they're all like that isn't right.

That scamboli video is mostly just him disliking cute anime girls rather than making a point, he admits most of his friends do like it and acknowledges that there are legit streamers scattered amongst the ones that act cute and pretend and i agree, i don't want to watch an act, but you know... i could make a 20 minute video about why i don't like pop music. It's fine to not like something, and similar to pop music it's really irritating when the world goes crazy for something you don't like, especially if you work in a similar field watching others see massive success for something you think is dumb and irritating.

I initially got a fair amount of Pikamee recommendations when I started dipping my toes in. Since I'm watching mostly Hololive clips these days, I get much less now. However, I subscribe to a few Pikamee clippers, so I still see her antics semi-regularly. Clipchama is the most frequent for me lately. Aru Azumaya just returned after a long gap. They have a unique system for subtitling with different colors for Japanese translation, spoken English, and alternative wording for intent. Here's an unsolicited example or two. I appreciate that extra effort for multilingual vtubers.

Music is only one aspect of vtubing, but if you want a look at an event with an actual budget behind it, Kizuna Ai (AKA 'the original vtuber') had her farewell concert this year. It's the same style of music, but done in an actual studio and features a bunch of guests.

Or, if you're interested in really digging into the Japanese vtuber music scene, there's a playlist of something like 48 hours worth of music videos from a yearly event called "Don't Stop the Music" which features MVs from countless vtubers. It's a great way to experience a bunch of different musical and vtuber styles, assuming that's something you're interested in and don't mind a language barrier.

Or, if you want something similar but not revolving around music, Japanese vtubers Ponpoko and Peanuts-kun held an event this year featuring a bunch of weird and wonderful Japan-based vtubers just doing their thing. It's almost 6 hours long but even if you skim through you can get an idea of the variety of what "vtuber" means for people. One of them is just a straight up Shiba Inu.

@mindbullet: On the topic of vtuber music Calli's "mix tape" she did for April 1st gave me Midnight Brown vibes and i really wanted Gerstmann to hear it.

@cikame: Fair enough that it's not all porn (I would say it basically started out that way based on that video, the hatsune miku character is also obviously sexualized) but can you link to some of your fave clips or channels then? I tried to check out Holo Myth on yt for a few mins now, not sure I found the right thing but it was a bunch of them goofing off like typical kids or teens and talking over each other in a virtual studio sort of. In the second clip one of them has an avatar with huge boobs that jiggle when it moves slightly.

Saying that's Japan's identity kinda sounds like saying wrestling is the US identity, not that I've been to Japan.

But on the other hand, I don't watch vloggers or chat/hangout streamers or listen to kidz bop and I guess this is in a way part of that sphere of content. If it was like a scripted drama or something else with more structure and aimed towards adults (in a non creepy sense), and the performance was high quality I guess I'd feel different about it. Still I prefer the actors and artists to be real people lol.

That yung shimigami track above was pretty funny I'll give it that :D

@alianger: I had a thought while i was in the shower, live streaming probably started in the late 90's early 00's with cam girl sites... so all streaming has its roots in porn :P.

It's hard recommending streams to people who don't already watch them, most get into it via clips at least that's how i got into it, it's a quicker way of figuring out if you like any of them :P. One pretty funny stream that happened recently was 4 members of HoloEN playing Propnight, but i usually like having simple solo streams like Minecraft on in the background while i do other stuff, i like the games that are less reactionary and promote chatting, i like watching Fauna play Miitopia, Kronii playing Obra Dinn was good too but i could watch anyone play that.

One of the most common ways people get into or keep up with vtuber content is through dedicated clippers. There are plenty of YouTube channels out there that take highlights from streams and serve them up in more manageable bite-sized runtimes. Some of them will even put in a little extra work to translate audio or apply extra effects.

hololive specifically has dozens, if not hundreds of clippers and watching one will very often trigger the YouTube algorithm to serve up a dozen others.

I would start with Sushi, for translated clips of hololive's Japanese branch: https://youtube.com/c/SushiHololiveandVtubers

Or Sashimi for edited clips of hololive's English speaking members: https://youtube.com/c/SashimiHololiveVTuberClips

There's a running joke within hololive itself where the idea of becoming a fan through watching clips is referred to as "falling down the rabbit hole".

@cikame: Hehe I guess so yeah.

Well, I tried with these too but nope, I feel like I'd rather just hang out with real people. And the comments obsessing over stuff like someone's laughter is creepy. I will say Kronii using her normal voice is more bearable.

The only streamer I've ever watched more than sporadically is lorerunner, which is pretty different in that he discusses the games in-depth and engages with his audience during the stream (encouraging discussion about the game or related topics), which is much smaller tbf. I occasionally watch something more walkthrough-like for tips and I guess sharing the experience of something I've played if my friends didn't play it.

Feel like it's worth giving a shoutout to GB's own RioStarwind, a vtuber who's currently streaming as part of the community Endurance Run.

I can't believe all you guys let him get away with saying "fleshtubing", eugh.

My two cents is that the "vtuber" part almost doesn't matter. I'm of the opinion that the primary appeal most streamer these days is the para-social relationship. Sure the curb appeal of an avatar get can get more eyeball initially, but it doesn't seem like the most popular vtubers have some sort of technological advantage over less popular.

Although, I've heard that the cost of producing a vtuber rig can cost 4-5 figures USD. That itself might just push out smaller streamers anyways.

I see it more of a cultural venn diagram. If you like animes/video games, you mostly like have similar interests with people who stream as vtubers.

@notsosneakyguy: This thread got me thinking about why i'm into it, my favourite vtuber Fauna once assumed everyone watching got into it because they like anime but that's not me, i just came across clips of these girls having fun and wanted to keep watching.

There's an escapism to it, the founding members of Hololive started as "idols" who existed solely to make the fans happy, being idols isn't a requirement anymore but while more and more members joined who weren't pursuing that goal the idea remains, there's not a lot of serious discussion about real world problems so it's a safe place to hang out, chat, look at games or whatever and forget about that stuff. Most of them aren't hardcore gamers so while someone like JackFrags is under pressure to deliver intense Battlefield gameplay, Ina's over here building an archery range and being adorable munching on celery, maybe i'm getting old but that's the level of intensity i'm enjoying these days :P.

It's also rewarding to see them achieve their goals, maybe that's part of the para-social relationship, whether it's watching them finish an artwork, bake a cake, release a song or seeing them stand on stage for the first time, you're aware of the effort they're putting in and it makes you proud, the word "wholesome" comes up a lot which is a nice way to put it.

For me in terms of why I enjoy it, I've been watching streamers pretty much since Twitch kicked off, and anyone who's watched GB's more extended content probably has some understanding of the appeal there. I don't really consider vtubers particularly different from any other streamer, except there's the added aspect of being impressed by the level of effort that goes into the art and animation of the rigging. It also might help that I'm pretty "anime-immune" - I can understand why the supposed "sexiness" of many designs can be off-putting, for me that kinda thing barely registers unless people note it.

There's also the aspect of "putting on an act" but that can be applied to a lot of fleshtubers (seeing as someone's already employed that phrase in here) too. Heck, I stream to half a dozen pals of mine and I wouldn't consider myself to be putting on any kind of performance but my friends still say I go "showbiz mode" when the stream starts - pretty much just being a little more "presenterly" I suppose, being a little more clear and pronounced with my voice.

If anything I feel like a lot of the bigger vtubers can sometimes feel more "real" than a lot of the bigger other streamers. Perhaps it's almost like wearing a mask, where you start to feel more comfortable letting loose because you have this half-veil of anonymity, and then the audience usually encourages that because it turns out most people like it when streamers feel more like they're being themselves and not just putting it on for the cameras.

Before vtuber history remembers me as it's greatest monster, I want the record to show that I borrowed "fleshtuber" from one Jeff Gerstmann because I thought it was funny.

Speaking of, here's a casual reminder that former Giant Bomb intro music composer Vektroid is also a vtuber.

Wasn't sure if i wanted to bring it up here since it's not really a vtuber news thread as much as a general discussion, but Sana an English member of Hololive announced that she'd be leaving at the end of the month which is very sad, the first English member to depart the company.

She debuted just shy of a year ago so it's been quite a short run, she had a period of inactivity which is when we found out she had a medical condition possibly related to her back and had only streamed once or twice a week since then, it affected the growth of her channel seeing her trail behind her fellow EN members, but her uniquely innocent and cheerful personality netted her a really devoted and strong community, it's definitely way too soon to see her go.

I thought about what media to insert here, she did a twitter space when she was laid up in bed where she reviewed cursed pizzas which was hilarious, but as a heartfelt send off i want to show what her fans did on her birthday. Her lore is that she is "The speaker of space", as evidenced by the planets in her hair, so her fans sent a happy birthday message into the stratosphere.