Thoughts On The New Apocalypse Now Game?

As the duders on the Beastcast mentioned, there is going to be an Apocalypse Now game made by devs that have worked on games like New Vegas, Wasteland 2, Far Cry 2 and Battlefield and it also has the go ahead\blessing from Francis Ford Coppola. This is the link to the Kickstarter: Apocalypse Now: a game based on the classic Vietnam war film by Erebus LLC — Kickstarter.

I'll post part of the opening pitch:

We're making a first-person perspective survival and horror game with strong roleplaying elements.

No open world. No long walks. No twitch shooting. All tension. All tactical decision making. Some outcomes determined by Player skill and some by Character skill. Psychological decision making in your dialogues with other characters.

And a heavy emphasis on an RPG-like narrative with branching outcomes.

You will explore the jungles and rivers of Vietnam in first person perspective. You join a crew of “rock and rollers with one foot in their grave”.

It’s like Fallout: New Vegas on acid in the middle of the Vietnam War.

Your ultimate mission is to assassinate Colonel Kurtz, a rogue American officer who is accused of forming a private army and operating "totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct.”

Combat is often your last resort; the wise soldier will avoid the ever-looming enemy at all costs.

Maintaining resources and relationships is key to your survival and your success.

This sure does sound... interesting but I'm a little wary. Like Vinny said on the Beastcast, making new Vietnam media in 2017 that isn't a pastiche or parody could be pretty tricky. That war and all the fiction that spawned from it is such a time and place thing and if they don't do it right it could turn bad real fast. However like I said, it does sound pretty interesting and at the very least it sounds like they aren't just making a generic shooter so that's good. Thoughts?

Isn't there no footage of the game? Seems like the Apocalypse Now brand would bring more difficulties than benefits.

@picky_bugger: Just that sizzle reel on the Kickstarter page.

@jonny_anonymous: Ah yeah, that doesn't really shed much light. Doesn't seem to be a massive rush on to back the game.

It sounds great on paper, but the lack of any prototype footage is sketchy.

Based on the pitch I can't quite picture how the game can work, $900,000 ain't enough for what their purposing.

@thepanzini: I imagine they already have some money from other places.

I have a hard time grasping what the game is going to be like based on the pitch. Not open world, but it's "like New Vegas on acid". Survival horror with tactical decision making and focus on dialogue choices. Sounds real weird.

EDIT: When I read a description like that I just get the feeling that they are in the early stages of just throwing around ideas and don't have a real basis for what the game is going to be. But who knows.

If telltale was making this, it would make more sense. Still, we should just wait and see how it turns out. It'll be interesting nonetheless if it sucks or it's good. They did make a Dantes Inferno game after all.

Kinda makes me think of the Stalker series. Feel like that opening pitch could be for stalker

@jonny_anonymous said:

The film is at least partly a pastiche or satire of the war. It's also an adaptation of Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness" placed in the Vietnam war. The war and setting are secondary to the development of the characters.

It sounds interesting on virtual paper, but I can't see much good coming of this. Though, I'll reserve judgement until something actually exists.

Well yes, most Vietnam movies are that.

@jonny_anonymous: I'm sure they do, but not mentioning it in the pitch is odd. The folks behind Wasteland 2 & Obsidian for $900,000 I can easily see a CRPG but what their purposing is miles from that figure. They only way I can see a game of Apocalypse Now working would be a PT style Telltale game but I don't know where the RPG fits in and for it to work it would need to look really good.

Well seeing as the design doc says "No open world, No long walks, all tactical" then says "fallout: new vegas" makes it seems like it has no idea what it's talking about.

I would recommend that people read the whole pitch. It`s a real mess. I am actually getting flashbacks to that pizza millionaire who wanted to make an mmo. Half the time it`s written confusingly and poorly and the other half it`s contradictory. As others have mentioned what does "not open world and no long walks", but also "like Fallout New Vegas" mean. Especially since they seem unsure on wether ot not the game has a focus on dialouge. At first they say:

"Your skills will affect your dialogues, what dialogue choices you have, and will open up different avenues of approach to the characters in the world."

But later on they write:

"Unlike a traditional RPG, the emphasis is not choosing dialogue, but rather actions and postures."

As Magmamund mentioned the whole thing just feels like the first draft of ideas for the game and like they still don`t have any solid plans for what the game is going to be.

As people mentioned 900 000$ seems like way to small a budget to make this game, which is apparently correct because after the kickstarter they are asking for an additional 5 mill through donations on their website:

"So first we ask for your support here on Kickstarter and then after the first 30 days here:

https://apocalypsenow.com/

Which will be both a long running ongoing crowdfunding campaign to raise an additional $5,000,000 but also a site where we will provide entertainment throughout the course of development."

Which seems pretty shady. Does that mean that if the kickstarter makes it, but the site donations don`t then the game won`t be made? This is not mentioned at all in the risks section by the way. If this didn`t have the Apocolypse Now name tied to to it then this whole thing would have seemed like a scam, but as it is now it`s just really confusing.

Everything about this seems like one of the shakiest videogame kickstarters I've ever seen. It's kind of mindblowing someone could launch a kickstarter this bad after all the resources out there to find decent ones.

It seems like they have some good talent behind it (and their experience explains the confusing mention of New Vegas), but man, it's just a poorly put together pitch.

The "extra 5,000,000" thing is especially baffling. They expect people to donate now, and then beg for more donations later? Are they trying to go the Star Citizen route? That has a hell of a lot more wide appeal than this. Are they ready to deal with the backlash that comes if they don't get the 5 million in donations, have to cancel the game, and deal with an angry crowd of people wanting their 900,000 back?

This thing is just top to bottom confusing. I like the (muddled) idea at the core of the kickstarter, but man is it a mess.

I love Apocalypse Now dearly, think the Vietnam War is a fantastic setting for games/media, and have a ton of respect for the folks behind New Vegas/Far Cry 2.

This pitch is downright bizarre and doesn't seem to combine these things in a satisfying way at all

Gonna take a wait and see approach with this, well before they get any of my money

@odinsmana: Thank you for the write up. I tried articulating something like this earlier while on mobile but just couldn't find a clear place to start summing up my thoughts.

/

I still don't know how to explain it. There seems to be something kind of... try-hard about this pitch? Kind of snobbish?

No open world. No long walks. No twitch shooting. All tension. All tactical decision making.

You will engage in what everyone calls "stealth gameplay."

This is not Call of Duty in Vietnam.

And of course that comparison to New Vegas. I'm surprised they didn't start saying 'this game isn't made for casuals'.

I will also add that it seems to be a bit confused about whether it wants you to use combat. It says things like 'you will creep through the jungle' and 'An assassin doesn't fire their weapon unless they have to' but then says 'How stealthily or combat-intensive is your approach?'

That New Vegas comparison seems kind of forced. Like they wanted to namedrop it because of how much love there is for that game. They even mention Josh Sawyer having an advisory position 'in the area of gameplay design and crowdfunding.' Which seems like they had to make something up to include Josh Sawyer's name in the pitch.

So many nopes

We've already kinda had this, right? Spec Ops the Line. Ish.

I'd rather play a game based on the documentary of the making of Apocalypse Now, Heart of Darkness: A Filmmaker's Apocalypse.

I'm all for visiting the vietnam war in games, and learn more about it. That said, this pitch seems very scatter-shot. At some points it sounds like a Hitman level (or MGS5 mission) while other points suggest that they want it to be more like Fallout.

The whole idea of expecting to generate the bulk of the money necessary through donations on their official site also rubs me the wrong way. Will we soon see 'kickstarter succeses ' that ask for 1k and hope to generate the other millions via a different avenue? Do we require kickstarter goals to be a certain percentage of the money that's actually needed to make the thing?

I can already see this game getting funded on kickstarter and then getting cancelled because the donation goal wasn't met. I know that many games use kickstarter and hope to attract an investor for additional funds, but to pre-emptively assume that you are going raise over 80% of the required money on your site seems a bit too brave. Unless we all make Apocalypsenow.com our homepage.

no reason why there can't be another take on a similar thing.

If that were true the film could (would?) have just been an adaptation of Heart of Darkness. I would say that it is first and foremost about the war, and Heart of Darkness happened to provide an appropriate narrative framework for what they wanted to say about it.

@thomasnash said:

Some of it is about the war, but it's ultimately about Willard's journey up the river to confront Kurtz and his descent into his "heart of darkness". War is certainly never depicted realistically nor accurately.

I mean certain themes are similar but at the end of the day The Line is just a shooter, this game sounds like it wants to be something different.

I'm slightly doubtful it will ever see the light of day. Usually when a game with this much "gravitas" behind it needs an established studio with a proven track record of making games to see the job done. And I MEAN studio. Not "Industry Vets" creating a new studio. Studios have methods, models, cultures, philosophies, ETC. A new company just has too much to overcome just to stay alive and ship their first game, let alone something as massive as they are looking to make. Unless it's a mechanically light and simple game, I doubt it will ever make it to market.

Right now? Apocalypse No. The pitch has vaporware/cancellation/disappointing product written all over it.

Oh Wow! I hadn't even looked at the trailer yet. Is is supposed to look like an old PC game from 1995?

@dan_rob_campbell: Games nowadays look too crisp to capture that apocalypse now feeling. You need early 3d to pull it off :)

I actually forgive them for the graphical quality in the trailer, since i don't know how much money has been invested up until the launch of the quicklook. Like i thought that Yooka Laylee looked good from the start, but that's made by an actual studio that can put some money towards the pitch. Since this is more of a ragtag group, maybe they're really scraping by at this moment and need the money to produce something that is 2017-worthy. That said, i don't see this project happening. If kickstarter is already struggling to reach the goal, there's no way people will donate over 80% of the budget straight to their site.

I think it's a terrible idea that will likely never see the light of day. Right now I have the impression they thought they could splash the name of the movie and a 40 year old photo of Francis Ford Coppola on Kickstarter and money would just wash over them like the tide, but I think the entire endeavor will fizzle pretty quickly. But hey, if I am completely wrong and a great game comes out, that would be excellent.

I feel like they are looking at the wrong direction on the game genre itself - a survival horror Apocalypse Now game sounds like a slog.

Hey, here's an interesting article I found while looking for the design doc of this new game:
They're Gonna Make An Apocalypse Now Game? Really? - Kotaku, April 12, 2010

As others have said, it seems like a better idea to go for Heart Of Darkness no Apocalypse Now. I my own minds it is simpler too, because it a 1899 serial that would be out of copyright. Everything they want to do with psychological game could be done with just "The Heart of Darkness" framework.

Yeah totally agree with that.

If they manage to not make a broken game then i'll gladly give it a go. I absolutely adored every second that I played of new vegas so I have high hopes.

@that_exile: @monkeyking1969: @whitegreyblack: @dan_rob_campbell: @shagge: @thomasnash: @ripelivejam: @onemanarmyy: @bartok: @shindig: @hate99: @paulmako: @giantstalker: @brackstone: @dudeglove: @odinsmana: @oursin_360: @sinusoidal: @pie: @katygaga: @magmamud: @thepanzini: @dharmabum: @picky_bugger:

Here is an intervew they did about the game "Everyone Has Their Own River To Travel" An Interview With The Minds Behind The Apocalypse Now Game

@that_exile: from all the things they say they want to do, combined with the subject matter, I don't see this game resembling much of New Vegas at all.

It's already been in development for eight years and they spent most of that time "trying to agree on how the game should play out". Erm..

My favorite quote from the interview: "We will make this game great or we will die trying.”

What's the opposite of hype?

@sinusoidal: Not hype?

Apocalypse Now game cancels Kickstarter to crowdfund on its own site

welp

In for the obligatory "The horror! The horror!"

@jonny_anonymous: I just saw this.

$32,225 pledged of $5,900,000 goal. 459 days remaining

Should the change in funding be worrying? I have no idea if there are any protections for people who might want refunds. As far as I can tell you send them the money straight away, not only if they reach a goal. The pledge checkout is just a popup payment box.

Their top pledge tier available is $1,000,000. AKA a cool million.

Also I still can't shake the feeling that they think attacking Call of Duty and praising New Vegas is the easy shortcut to earning support:

- IT'S LIKE FALLOUT: NEW VEGAS ON ACID IN VIETNAM

- But this game is not Call of Duty: Vietnam.

In the video they even get Sawyer to mention 'Hey this guy worked on Fallout: New Vegas.'

@paulmako: 100% scam, they got off kickstarter because on there you have to give tge money back if you don't reach goal on time.

Considering the sheer nightmare to get the actual film made makes me a little weary.

You know the scene where Martin Sheen is in the hotel room losing his mind? He wasn't acting.

@oursin_360: This game will never come together but I doubt it's a scam, Coppola came to them to make the game.

I don't think it's a scam in the sense that they intentionally are out to swindle people, although I think it is a bit weird that I couldn't find any language on their site about what happens to backers if the $6million goal isn't reached. I would have thought there would at least be a warning that once you pledge the money is gone forever.

Sorry to necro (and double post) but I randomly remembered this project. Looks like the website they had for crowdfunding after cancelling the Kickstarter (apocalypsenow.com) is down. So I wondered what happened.

The most recent thing I found was this short reddit thread from a month ago of people wondering what happened. Someone seemingly writing on behalf of the team does respond to one post saying that they haven't collected any money and never planned to until funding goals were met, so at least backers won't be losing out.

The thread also mentioned something else. On the game's tumblr page in mid-November the game director had left a short note saying that they have withdrawn endorsement of everything relating to the original movie, the production and the game itself.

The only other posts on the tumblr are two from mid-October. One post is condemning convicted child molester and Jeepers Creepers 3 director and Victor Salva, who apparently has an industry connection to Apocalypse Now director Francis Ford Coppola. The other post is about deleting personal Twitter accounts and accounts associated with the game in solidarity with Rose McGowan, who received a temporary Twitter suspension while speaking out against Harvey Weinstein.

I was always somewhat doubtful as to whether this game would come out, but who knows what position they were in when this happened. Maybe they were making good progress behind the scenes. Either way, I respect them for sticking to their morals and disavowing themselves if they no longer wanted to be associated with the gross behaviour of Hollywood.

Well even if this game did come out, I feel like Spec Ops the Line basically already did this kinda story as well as it could be done in a video game