Yikes, turns out this censors any reference to Taiwan or Hong Kong

@aristotled: Fighting against the censorship of a brutal, oppressive totalitarian regime (the CCP: Chinese Communist Party - which isn't "communist", BTW) IS NOT being xenophobic / racist. People either A) make it racist, because they're racists from the jump; or B) can't separate China / Chinese people (good) from their oppressive nightmare government, the CCP (bad).

@nameredacted: if racists can jump all over your argument and support it, maybe find a different route.

@toughshed:

Fuck China and thier games. Don't need them.

@noobsauce: "China" doesn't make games. Chinese people do.

I often wonder how many people today would have supported companies in apartheid south africa with this same logic.

@oursin_360: Not sure, I suppose as many as would support Canadian game development, where indigenous communities don’t have clean drinking water and cops harass, assault, and murder First Nations. Oh! And destroy sovereign indigenous lands for resource extraction and transport. Really looking forward to the boycotting of Assassin’s Creed Valhalla that will surely follow.

there's that racism i've been talking about

I love your quote because you made it say something entirely different from what I said. Great job quoting me with those quotation marks.

Point is racists also can jump all over your same thinking, so maybe you should try a different approach because its not a good approach to solving anything. Its thinking that someone beaten down by capitalism would have, that your only power is purchasing power and one, if not rooted in, easly carrying weight for nationalists and racists to flock to. Hopefully that time its clear for you.

So are you using this analogy to say that it's ok? Or that people aren't aware of it? I mean sarcasm doesn't really make your point clear honestly.

I'm sure people know how big a deal sanctions made in south africa right? If not I recommend long walk to freedom by Nelson Mandela.

@oursin_360: The point I’m trying to make is just out of hand disregarding any work coming from any developer in an authoritarian or racist regime is an incredibly flattening criteria that most countries would flunk. But sure, let’s have this discussion about a Chinese game while every western developed game gets a pass.

@navster15: I believe people should have the right to boycott what they want, if they feel offended by it's content. This whole argument is as fallacious as the "all lives matter' one, just another way to silence protest. If you really feel strongly about whatever is happening in Canada, you should be on here educating us about it and spreading awareness rather than using it as a means to downplay these people's concerns about China's regime and there censorship policies internationally.

Indeed. And I wouldn't hold the developers as complicit in this as they effectively have other things to consider. They may not be in a position to protest, especially knowing what those consequences might be.

@oursin_360: But your analogy to South Africa isn’t simply a statement that protest is good and people should protest what they believe in. It’s a comparison to a regime in recent history that we all can agree is evil. The comment draws a clear moral parallel between apartheid, a very loaded term for anyone with a passing knowledge of history, to the current regime in China. Which, ok fair, the CCP is evil and is committing human rights violations as we speak. But if we set that moral bar, why are we not extending that standard evenly to Japan, who have incredibly racist laws on the books against foreign born permanent residents and citizens, especially Black people. Or the United States, who continue to unlawfully detain Latin American asylum seekers and immigrants in concentration camps not unlike the situation the Uyghur‘s face.

Once again, protesting the CCP is fine, and if not playing Genshin Impact is a way that manifests, then go for it. But let’s not sit atop an incendiary moral high horse by implying Genshin Impact players would somehow be approving of racial oppression and genocide.

It's a dilemma, support the developers, support the regime. I truly don't know the "right" answer, but I definitely do not fault people for boycotting. China generates a lot of money right now, so they get away with a lot. I think there is some sorta weird support as well since Trump is so anti china and I guess people can't compartmentalize the two. "enemy of my enemy" type thing I guess. I suggest reading my spiritual journey by the Dalai Lama to anybody having trouble with that.

Any game that makes it harder on purpose to discuss the production histories of electronic devices and import games seems bad imo.

Also for the people saying "How can I stand up to something I don't like taking place in a distant nation when I accept bad things taking place at home", you really sound like you're telling on yourself.

That games refuse certain content or words depending on where they are released is not new - Germany's banning of WW2 imagery and Fallout 3's multiple nations needing the names of drugs in-game to be changed are the first I think of. That this seems to be a worldwide rollout of a game that bans the words across the playerbase and in such a way that the reason needs no asking, seems unusual. Although I have no idea how unique a political situation this is in games.

I can't give anyone(And I mean anyone) a list of things to be upset about but for those who think the power of boycott is an empty promise, consider the inverse and how much "boycott" is market choice. And then finally roll your eyes, and when they land at the top of the page, remind yourself of the power of the choice.

Northern Hemisphere Duders; Enjoy what you can of the mild weather that remains.

Southern Hemisphere Duders; Less specific, but stay strong.

If apartheid era South Africa was an economic and cultural juggernaut on the world stage, the answer is "plenty of people".

@oursin_360: I think the point is the vast majority of those making declarations of wishing to boycott this Chinese game had no interest in spending money on it in the first place.

The moment a game that they might wish to spend money on comes out (such as Assassins Creed Valhalla in said example), any such ideological bright lines suddenly grow muddier.

Do you think anyone boycotted Overwatch when Activision made their gross decisions to placate potential ire from the CCP? How about boycotting Star Wars because Disney did the same thing?

Every video game produced in the USA, Canada and other settler colonies are made on stolen lands, therefore if you don't want to support genocide, you should boycott every US video game along with Genshin Impact.

Nope. That's not applicable at all. Not unless the developers are practicing genocide.

@shindig: The developers no, but I think there is a level of complicity of citizens in settler nations in the ongoing genocide of Indigenous peoples. Canada won’t provide clean drinking water to reservations, medical and mental health support remains far lower in availability and quality in Indigenous communities than settler ones, and there remains an ongoing crisis of missing and murdered indigenous women that the government refuses to look into. And by my understanding, the situation is even worse and comparatively less investigated in the US.

Are North American devs responsible for this? Not directly, although I think we can all do more by holding our governments to, at the bare minimum, actually honor treaties and agreements made with First Nations. But it’s the same level of “responsibility” as Chinese devs have for stopping CCP censorship. If we’re not holding, say, Bungie to the fire over that, why are people specifically holding the Genshin devs to that same standard?

@sethmode: Brilliant!

What's clear to me is that the idea that changing *your* argument because of what a racist might think is intellectual self sabotage, in that you're allowing racists to determine the sides of a discussion, and abandoning your own ideas despite all other evidence. Think for yourself, don't let racists group think for you.

Thank you for the clarification that you're not implying someone is a racist based on whether or not a racist agrees with you, instead because racists just generally have bad ideas, which hopefully isn't putting words in your mouth. That's the problem with throwing around loaded terms and assuming one of the most despicable, nefarious human intents casually, things escalate quickly. Maybe just assume someone's thoughts are their own, and not guided by racism.

@north6: you make an argument that isn't dripping in gadfly energy and I assure you I will happily engage.

@sethmode: Ok, I'm not sure what you are trying to engage with, literally the only post you have is "Fuck off."

My general thought is that while I generally doubt the efficacy of video game boycott/protests, and have some sympathy for the developers in an impossible situation, I staunchly support the concept of protesting of all forms completely. Just because something hasn't worked in the past doesn't mean it is always doomed to failure, and on a personal note, I don't understand how someone with sincere misgivings around the culture of a game doesn't factor this into their buying decision. If you're in the camp where the actions this dev has taken bothers you, regardless of their dystopian government overlords, why would you fuel that with "prospect of potential pretty lady" gacha credit card slot machine rolls? No way that makes sense to me, but to each their own.

@north6: My dude, very few engage you here because you do the same thing every time. You know why I said fuck off, because your entire premise was based upon being a gadfly. And instead of thinking about that, you double down on being one. *shrug* You have done this so many times and it is tiring.

I generally don't like when people randomly assume others are racists and nobody calls them out on their bullshit. It's a horrible thing to call someone, and shuts down any sort of conversation. Make of that what you will.

@north6: Sure thing, chief.

yep. that's capitalism baby. what some in here will never see. like I said before, even their attempts to solve the issue is enitrely rooted in their own buying power at the store because that's as much as they can think they can do and the only way they think their voice can be heard.

A lot of that and eventually lamenting that people outside the viewpoint are Terrifying.

what? did you even read my post? it doesn't seem like it. That might be why people don't' want to engage with you man.

@toughshed: Since you directly called someone a racist (arguably with better evidence) rather than just implying as such less than 4 posts after your original that I had issues with, I'm willing to concede that we probably aren't going to come to an understanding. Have a good one.

It's rare that a post literally makes me groan but here we are.

Mostly i'm not playing the game because it's not available on Steam, not supporting China is a side effect, i can't even pretend that i'd be helping the developers the rules and laws are so alien to me they might as well be on another planet.

Spreading the word about this is important. I don't know the dev's positions really so it's a moot point. Standing firm against Blizzard disallowing this shit makes more sense because, they're not under the same pressure except losing money.

And yes, any time I see strong anti-Chinese sentiment coming from arm-chair randos online, it's almost always in the context of dog whistle racist shit.

@bacongames: Doesn't help when some of the folk doing that are some of the people who tend to go from thread to thread picking fights, JAQing off, and arguing that it is fine as long as you don't use a hard r when you drop the n-word... REALLY hope the red velvet version of the site has a block functionality for those a-holes.

And knowing nothing about the genshin devs: It more or less is the same problem that Blizzard and even DE/Warframe and anyone else who wants to have a chinese presence have. You can't do business in that country without playing by that government's rules and those rules tend to mean censoring "problematic" terms.

I'm not going to fault anyone for not wanting to give a company that plays ball money but it is also a very complex problem and can very easily come down as "do business with china or the rest of the world"

ha yeah man saying fuck a whole country and the people in it is a statement that's "arguably" racist. Good job hearing out both sides and giving people the benefit of the doubt when they are saying something obviously racist.

Meanwhile I did not say your position was inherently, merely that it was totally ineffective by putting the pressure and onus on the least powerful people in a consumer space and one racists happily flock to for different reasons, but you said I did and ignored most of my post. Cool.

@gundato: I don't know that the situation is nearly so complex if applied to Blizzard/DE/Whatever other outside company.

@north6 said:

If you make an argument and a bunch of racists line up next to you in support, engage critical thinking about argument you are making.

This isnt rocket science. If at any point in your existence you see truly terrible people espousing the same beliefs as you, it Is healthy to figure out why and if you need to change the way you express those beliefs to avoid being counted among the garbage humans.

@efesell: If you want to do business in China you need to (optimally) work with a chinese company (like Tencent) and play by the Chinese government's rules

Unless the Genshin devs have gone further it is the same situation. They just happen to be IN China rather than just have a satellite office there for taxation purposes.

@gundato: I think there is rather a difference in sympathy for a company native to China having to play ball to exist to a company wanting to do business there because of all that money.

I'm still at a loss so I'll ask it more directly; Someone tell me why this game has worldwide language filtering and not regional, other than for the appearance of strength? I had to use Skype to know what an Orc was saying to me ~20ft(digital) away from me in the Barrens. Granted they weren't using the chat to say "I like Taiwan & Hong Kong but also Putin", but the non-localization of this outside China...Hmm.

@petesix0: I would assume that if the localization is being done there it is subject to the same rules as the rest, regardless where it ends up.

@petesix0: Unless they region lock the servers, any player can play on any server. If that is the case, they would likely need to keep the filter on all the versions to comply with the law.

@turambar: I do believe some people did, I don't think it was a mass of people though. I don't think a mass of people are boycotting this either.

I wouldn't want to see Huawei win the contract to build 5g networks in my country from a security and geopolitical perspective. We have alternatives in the EU with parties like Ericsson or Nokia, why would we want to let an US or Chinese company be involved in the core of our infrastructure networks here in the EU? Especially in these geopolitical tumultuous times.

When i say this, anyone that's racist or xenophobic towards China would agree with me. Sometimes you find yourself on that side of the fence and it sucks, but is not in itself a reason to do an 180 on your stance.

When i look at this situation, personally i don't have any qualms with small-time chinese devs having a huge hit on their hands. It's a neat game, they made it, they deserve the applause. If a large conglomerate like Tencent or Activision shipped their f2p BOTW clone, i would feel different about the situation though.

@petesix0: Less risk of fucking up and turning it off in one region? Also probably an issue of the Genshin devs being in China itself

@efesell: Again, it is a pretty massive market. And folk bypassing the great firewall provide a negative experience for other players (tend to be higher pings) and potentially major legal issues for them. Blizzard have done a LOT of horrible shit in the interest of doing this but the actual act and even the censoring of lich king and the like is basically just the requirement.