God of War: Ragnarök Discussion Thread

@sethmode: Yeah, it's been talked about in this thread some already, but I figured out pretty early on what the different colors of enemy health meant. Green is below your level, yellow is at your level, orange is one level above, purple is two levels above, and red is three levels above or more. If you see a purple or red health bar, you should really just disengage and come back later when you're more level appropriate, because it isn't worth the hassle of doing it right away, unless you know for a fact that said enemy drops a piece of loot you really want.

@atheistpreacher: I have the lock-on disabled because I never use it and kept accidently turning it on, I've done all but one of the berserkers and half the Muspelheim/Crucible on No Mercy and the fodder mobs I have not been any problem for me.

The biggest issue I have with combat is sometimes parrying the yellow circle attacks doesn't always stagger the enemy and I hate parrying in general any boss with a long attack wind up I need to parry takes me a while to nail the timing.

@atheistpreacher: Yeah I know, it's just, after thinking (from experience) I could take out guys 1v1 without much issue when they had a purple life bar, to that same fight being NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE if that fight adds additional dudes. Just adding to that fact that it's being mobbed that makes the challenge amp up, and that's why it feels artificial for me. I don't mind being wiped out fast for mistakes against purple bosses, but I don't like that the situation is difficult simply because the fodder enemies around them can ALSO kill me in a few hits.

@sethmode: Indeed. I did beat some purple bosses/elites in the early going (e.g., I talked in this thread about beating a pair of realm tear enemies in Alfheim who could one-shot me, I just had to do it without getting hit). But as I got further in I got more cagey about fighting anything above orange, particularly if it involved more than one target.

And I suspect, though can't be sure because I've never turned the difficulty down, that lower difficulties tend to help mask the game's camera problems--both the lock cam and lack of a wider FOV (those f-ing colored arrows....)--by simply letting you dispatch them more quickly with your big area clear attacks. I.e., the camera design is bad no matter what, but you notice it more as you crank the difficulty up.

But there's that system that I talked about in my first post in this thread on the highest setting which causes mobs to spontaneously level up in the middle of fights, e.g., go from an orange bar to purple. Paired with what I presume is a higher health pool regardless, and you are just stuck trying to take down large mobs individually because you can't possibly area kill them all even if you dump all your big attacks at once... eventually they'll all be on cooldown and you've only got your basic attacks. As I said earlier, not using the lock-on can help in those situations, but it makes kiting harder (you're now manually managing the camera more!) and you still can't see crap.

I went back to Linda’s gear and am just pummeling the shit out of the endgame stuff while mashing stun arrows. It’s far from clever but it sure gets the job done.

Just finished watching the movie version of this game on youtube after all the backlash...not sure what people played or if the gameplay is just bad (though I heard it's just a DLC like an enhanced version of the prior's gameplay which was good for what it was trying to do so I liked it.)

But I'm not sure what people played...takes about the story being bad or the characters and world being generic or nothing special really makes me feel disconnected from whatever it is that everyone else is playing as alternatives that's so much better lol..The game seems great...I think prior to the video I saw a shoo-in for GOTY just from hype and the games are released early regardless of how good usually get shafted come to GOTY due to people having time to forget them or in Zelda's case find flaws (but also become more fond of them) so it was up in the air for Elden ring plus ER is still niche hard game, not for everyone and cinematic games fair better for mass appeal as most can finish them, but many finished Elden ring for some reason.

Anyway, my point is the game seems great but I get people thinking it's not mindblowing cause yeah...it's more of a good game to close things out. PS. I feel like the game was meant to have a sequel but sometimes in development they just decided to push it all in, tons of loose threads and a rush ending as in they just said...ok forget it, include him, him and him, etc. Egyptian mythology should fair well with a funner uncharted like a script for those annoyed by the dower serious tone of GOWR.

I am always interested in your ability to find the backlash in games that are rated at like 9/10 almost everywhere.

Regarding this game feeling like a really large DLC for the first one, that reminded me that in the the first game, when I reached the portal room and several realms remained "locked by Odin" or whatever, I immediately thought, "Most obvious placeholders for DLC ever!" And then it turned out that no, they actually did have no plans to do any DLC for that game. It seemed like such an obvious thing for them to do for such a critically acclaimed and successful game, but hey, whatever. We did get this full sequel about 4.5 years later, so I'm not complaining.

I thought I may as well report that even after I'd said late last night that I felt I'd lost some momentum for the postgame--for a very specific reason (laid out near the end of my spoiler tag... I'd be interested to hear if anyone had any of the same story reactions I did, when folks have finished it)--I did in fact end up mopping everything up tonight. 100% everything, got the plat, done and dusted. I don't think it's really changed my overall opinion of the game as I've already laid out... i.e., it is indeed a very good sequel that I enjoyed very much overall, even if at times the story pacing was not awesome, and the camera and lock-on nonsense remained my mortal enemy the entire game. It's still easily in my top three or four games of the year... Elden Ring is still my #1 and Rogue Legacy 2 is still my #2, with either this or Vampire Survivors following, not sure which. Probably this.

One funny thing: I kicked off my postgame mopping up by consulting a video for the Berserker King, because I knew he was probably going to be a real bastard, and I noticed in the video that the person used a resurrection stone. And then I slapped my forehead, because I realized that up until that point I had completely forgotten that resurrection stones were a thing. Too bad, because I think for some of those Berserker fights, a resurrection would have been the difference and I wouldn't have had to fight those bastards so many times.

And a stone was, in fact, the difference when I beat the Berserker King. Took me about an hour to beat him, he's more a test of endurance than anything since he doesn't have any new attacks, just a mix of the stuff all the others had, but his health pool was just ridiculous. No real surprises, I just had to string together a run with a minimum of mistakes.

Now, that optional Valkyrie Queen boss fight in Muspelheim... that had to be the toughest fight in the whole game. She seemed so much deadlier than the Berserker King, way faster and harder to dodge. She gave me fits, and ended up being the very last thing I did.

Anyway, now I guess I'm prepared if they patch in a NG+ like they did for the first game. I hope they do. I think this is one where I might actually enjoy experiencing the story again already knowing what will happen; it should mitigate some of the pacing issues.

One final little spoilery note: I was surprised that even after 100%-ing everything, Sindri apparently never returns. That there was a summary of overall progress when warping to his house made me think something would happen if you completed everything and returned, but nothing doing.

FWIW here's a very touching (and gutting) story about how a side-quest is a tribute to a developer of the game who died in 2020:

https://twitter.com/MDSVeritas/status/1593439856226488321

Also, an interesting interview with Richard Schiff about playing Odin (I didn't know he was performing while recovering from COVID!):

https://www.indiewire.com/2022/11/richard-schiff-interview-god-of-war-odin-wakanda-forever-1234783800/

And lastly, a fun little behind-the-scenes video that shows some mocap.

Doing the last bit in Vanaheim (I assume) and it is officially starting to break me a little, as I begin to realize that the compass is just as fucking useless as the map.

Also, I'm going to hear "Behind you brother!" for the rest of my days.

@efesell: Yeah, I always see online gamers complain that games are 5/10 at best lately and then when one comes out that both critics and the usual down on stuff crowd who finds fault in the tiniest of things and calls an entire game bad for it. (last of us 2 story for example) they are somehow enjoying GOWR. Add to that, all I find on YouTube that trash the game are people click hunting that can't even find things that bad to say. They usually amount to...well I played the beginning section, and it was a long walk and on rails chase, and I got bored and quit...like real unreliable reviews or the game was good but more of the good we got before...lol

I will say this forum has the most nuanced and fair opinions and see where they're coming from. Much like last of us 2 which I enjoyed and Elden Ring... I can see why people don't like them on this site, and the opinions are well explained. Just many points that didn't bother me and never see myself noticing unless I go out of my way, lol. Like the issue of too many repeat bosses which I just ignored in Elden Ring, or the bleak and slogging plot of last of us 2 which again I just chopped it up to this was then putting all cards on the table because it's their last in the series, fair or not...much like uncharted 4 went on too long but was the big cap off, as well as mgs4 and so on.

GOWR after reading replies seems to suffer from what I saw with horizon zero games...they're good cause naturally they check all the boxes of a good modern game. It just doesn't have the heart of less polished games like Skyrim which enrich the imagination of those role playing, hence it's like getting an expensive meal at a good restaurant...you know its good cause of course, it tastes good too...but you don't get to fool around and make the meal special cause everything is so exactly catered to impress. I still like that, but I get people who are finding flaws as the presentation is so great but something's missing. Skyrim is janky, but many spent hours in it and love it till this day. GOWR is obviously better, but not as special yet for some.

@topcyclist: Horizon Zero Dawn although very good felt like feature creep and where the story finished wasn't that appealing for me, but Zero Dawn has been consistently in the PSN charts.

Ragnarök is a great game not quite on par with GOW2018 for me because I prefered the singular larger evolving enviroment and metroidvania aspects from the first, given Ragnarök had a lot to get through it was always going to be more linear and somewhat smaller.

I think Ragnarök finished in a very good place and where the next game goes will be interesting.

Santa Monica had said before release that Ragnarök is the end of the Norse saga. So, if they do continue the series, it seems it will be in a new setting. Whether that means Kratos and Atreus centuries later in a new mythology, or just one of those characters in a new mythology, or entirely new characters and setting, remains to be seen.

“Whether the Norse saga was going to be a trilogy or just two games was something we debated a lot,” said lead writer Rich Gaubery. “There were obviously pros and cons for either approach. So, we waited for [Santa Monica creative director]Cory Barlog to weigh in, and he did. And he said, ‘let’s do it in two’.”

Source

@ll_exile_ll: Yeah Kratos and the Norse story is done, but the end with Atreus hints at DLC or something else likewise with a couple of others.

I'm mostly enjoying it, but I think this game is paced extremely poorly in spots. The game just feels extremely self-indulgent in a way that the 2018 one did not. There's more stuff for sure, but none of it necessarily feels essential or better for it. Like, there are more combat abilities, but none of them really add any depth. The are more puzzles, but they've been done in such a way that they're just more obnoxious rather than creative (hey, find the exact vantage point where you can throw the axe on this exact spot to reflect it into the exact things you need. No, not there! You were two pixels to the left!)

Without getting too spoilery, the part where you first go to the (place) and meet the (character) goes on freaking forever. There were three or four spots where I felt like the section should have been building to an off-ramp because it had gotten the necessary story bits out but instead it just kept going instead. Normally I'm a big sucker for story and don't mind a good walk and talk, but even I was saying "Jesus Christ, just get on with italready."

@sethmode: Yes, your gripe will be fixed and it's pretty satisfying IMHO.I agree the game could have been shorter but in the end I enjoyed myself and think the conclusion works well. I also really enjoyed the Atreus sections and would have liked even more combat options for him. The Crucible trials can go to hell, even if I am probably going to finish them.

well i finally finished! currently consuming that last installment of Minnmax's Deepest Dive, but for anyone who cares here are my quick hits (SPOILERS, obvi):

• overall i had a really great time! i think this one comes out ahead of 2018's in my personal ranking- and i think that has mostly to do with the lighter tone and variety. i never fully connected to the dramatic tension between Kratos and Atreus in 2018, and generally speaking this game was more successful at getting me in the headspace of the characters- but i think that's more a personal thing than a failing of 2018. it's just a different approach.

• a lot of folks seem to be saying this game feels like a Marvel movie directed by Whedon and it's a non-stop quip-fest- but i think that's overstated. there's a lot of riffing from companions, but i don't find artificially jocular dialogue or combat barks an exclusive hallmark of the Disney crew- that's just blockbuster movies. though i suppose if only Disney movies seem to be in theaters these days, it's only fair that would be the reference point.

• Freya's characterization ended up being the unchallenged lynchpin of the narrative for me, and if i play it again it will be to absorb Danielle Bisutti's performance again. i liked her parts of the game the best, no question.

• i still haven't taken a shine to Atreus. he still feels like default 'boy' or 'teen' to me, and i didn't get a lot of unique personality from him. his sections always felt like i was there for the companions (Angrboda, Thrud, Thor) over his personal development, and that persisted until the end.

• i think the game starts to lose it's rhythm and gets narratively loose once you start dipping into Hel and Nifelheim (probably 60ish percent through). those environments didn't do a lot for me (cold, snowy wastelands filled with the dead just don't hit like lush forests or dramatic mountain ranges), and i think it's during those sections the game gets as navel-gazey as can be. there's only so many times i need to hear about fate, choices, and 'we must be better.'

• if i'm being 100% honest, i found the assault on Asgard a little anticlimactic- between a pretty small map (though World Snake vibing in the background was pretty sweet), a hamfisted 'save the plebs' distraction, and two kinda subdued character departures in Thor and Odin- i guess i was just expecting something with larger scale and bombast from a apocalypse event in the God of War universe. and i didn't really buy the narrative thrust of final assault through to the funeral scene- the plot moved quick, justifications shaky, and the ending was a bit too tidy to my taste.

• that said the Sindri stuff was interesting and well acted. i kinda like that there was no real redemptive arc between him and Atreus, but i do miss Brok's ridiculous dialogue- and i wonder if that death could have been spent on someone with more impact.

• Gna fucked me up for a good stretch! but i love the valkyrie fights.

so yeah! very good. now someone make me a Freya game.

@mellotronrules: agreed on the final set piece, and it also made me hope there’s not some kind of ongoing mandate from the publishing side. Last of Us 2, Forbidden West and God of War all have massive final set pieces that didn’t fully earn their scale for me.

And both Horizon and God of War in particular almost feel like they were designed by the same exact people lol. Having just done Horizon earlier this year helped dull God of War’s for sure; I wonder if I’d been more impressed had I not played Horizon? 🤔

This is also where I'm coming down on the game about 25 hours in. The pacing just feels off compared to the last game. Lots of areas feel longer than they need to be, and often it feels like their default solution to add 30-60 minutes to every area and sidequest is "insert 6 more random battles and 3 easy puzzles that take several minutes to solve." Even when it's completely unnecessary or makes no sense. Rarely you'll get a unique boss battle or interesting puzzle, but usually it's a bunch of trash encounters and find-the-pixel that often sap the momentum.

I get wanting to break up the action and story with some variety, but it just doesn't feel right, especially for a 40-60+ hour game. Add in the myriad different upgrade menus and equipment slots that the game wants you to slog through constantly and I'm struggling to keep going. Luckily whenever I'm on the verge of dropping, the game feeds a big story beat or mixes up the gameplay enough to get me back in.

Was really looking forward to it but... man the momentum just died for me as soon as you hit the dwarven world and it hasnt picked back up. Just a lot of... meandering without much spectacle.

I'm currently playing Bound by Flame and having way more fun... you read that correctly. I... think I'm even going to finish the game! Madness.

I finished the game and have mixed feelings. First of all, I still believe its one of the best games of 2022, which is why I have it high on my personal top 10 list. However, there are some parts of the game both with the gameplay and the story that are cons to me. First of all the gameplay, while still fun has overall taken a step back. For one thing, the enemies constantly try to get out of camera view and attack Kratos from behind. The funny thing is, in 2018 version, the whole points of Atreus using his arrows was stop potential back attackers in their place so Kratos can deal with them. But because most enemies ( finished the game on normal difficulty) keep using charged and unblockable attacks, Atreus arrows aren't as effective as they used to be. You can upgrade him and accessories to be a little better, but he is never effective as he was in the original game.

The gameplay almost reminded me of what happened in Doom Eternal, where instead of just improving upon a great system, the developers try to make the combat unnecessary tedious in spots. Luckily, it doesn't get that bad overall. Some people want to crap on Forbidden West, but that game is actually a good example of how the combat was improved and feels right in a sequel while still being challenging in a none cheap way.

When it comes to the story, it was overall entertaining, but I can't help but feel the writers got cold feet and as a result fumbled the finish. I won't spoiler the details, but I'll just say one of the big story moments that was foreshadowed since the end of the original game, doesn't happen. When you think about it outside of the game itself, it makes sense why, but still it looks like a sad copout. Basically, expect a third GOW game in two to three years.

Like I said, I overall enjoyed the game, but its far from perfect and I understand if some people were turned off or didn't like it at all. And Atreus/Loki is starting to become annoying as a character, but he's a teen and teens are supposed to be annoying, so I'll give this a pass. Hopefully, they improve his character when he becomes a young adult in the third game. At the same time, badass Sindri was awesome and I hope he doesn't change back to being a comedy relief character.

There is no third game. I'm sure God of War will continue in some form, but they've been pretty upfront that the Norse saga is a two game story and this is the end of it.

Bumping this to note that the patch adding NG+ has arrived. I think I may be done with the RE4 Remake for now, so I think I'll try this for a while and see how it goes. Will be interesting to see how NG+ feels balance-wise... though I've definitely forgotten how to play this game!

@atheistpreacher: I'll be curious to see how this goes for folks over the coming weeks. I tried to play New Game+ in my replay of 2018 and found that they'd added so many mechanics without much ramping up to them that I felt like a puny cosplayer compared to where I was in my memory of the 2018 endgame.

Also, in one of my more smooth brained gamer moments, I found every chest being yet another Skap Slag Plus or whatever too boring. I'm not a full on loot whore - I thought I'd played dozens of hours of Diablo III only to check my profile and see the number "7" next to it, lol - but when a game conditions you to find small hints of joy in every chest's random new upgrade/sound effect loop, reducing it to the same thing over and over with no trophies to boot made the progress feel decidedly dull.

And this game (Ragnarok, here) for better or worse was mechanically dense enough that it was already pretty difficult to set down for a few weeks before getting trophy sick and trying to finish the checklists, I wonder if this game is at all a little more measured in the early hours of a replay.

My guess would be no.

@nodima: Actually, funnily enough, I played just a bit of it (paused now to try to get my S+ on Pro in RE4 Remake), and the early sections are absurdly easy.

Why's that? Well, they seemed to have balanced the early NG+ for people who may have just finished the story and not done any of the post-game stuff. All the enemies I've fought so far (I've only made it to the first "open" lake area), have been level 7. I, of course, am level 9. Meaning that I'm pretty much just obliterating everything so far. And I'm still playing on the highest difficulty setting. E.g., remember those fiery dudes, "The Hateful," that were so difficult? Beat the first one on the first try. I remember needing to attempt that first one like a dozen times.

So, yeah, if you had actually bothered to upgrade Kratos to level 9--or even level 8--you'll be fine, at least for a while. And probably by the time the difficulty ramps back up, you'll have shaken off most of the cobwebs.

EDIT. Pro tip for anyone starting a NG+ playthrough: upgrading your equipment from 9 to 10 in the new difficulty requires materials from Muspelheim/the Crucible that can actually be farmed during the first cycle.

So if you want to have the most advantage possible going into NG+, you want to first upgrade all your chosen equipment to level 9, and then also have on hand: 40 Smoldering Embers (for armor), 30 Glowing Embers (for weapon attachments), and 20 Blazing Embers (for your shield and shield attachment). That's just enough to upgrade a single full set of equipment for Kratos. Add 10 of each material for each alternative piece of equipment you'd like to have, or 20 for chest armors.

If you don't have these mats on hand, you might end up being forced to wait until Muspelheim unlocks again in the new cycle in order to upgrade your gear further, which would be a bummer--although you will now get some of these previously Muspelheim-exclusive mats in other places throughout the NG+ world. Just not as many as you would like.

Thought I'd just note that I did finish the NG+ mode on this game.

For the most part, I actually found it considerably easier than my first play. Hard to tell how much of that was me having played it half a year ago and mostly remembering how it worked, and how much was starting with a good set of equipment... though I suspect more the latter. I was also surprised that it allowed you to upgrade most of your equipment to the new maximum fairly early on, so it felt like I was somewhat overleveled for a lot of the game.

For reference, my original playthrough clocked in at just under 70 hours. This NG+ run--in which I did everything except fight the Berserker King and the Valkyrie Queen, because I didn't need the heartburn--only took me 38 hours. And overall, I had a really good time going through again. It's still a hell of a game, even though the extras included in the NG+ mode really weren't things I cared about at all.

I also discovered that you can enter yet another NG+ cycle afterwards, if you like, which would make it even easier since you'd be at the new NG+ equipment cap right from the start. I don't see myself playing it for a third time anytime soon, but maybe in a few years it would be fun to do that and really massacre everything.