UK Advertising Standards Authority are looking at NMS

I just can't manage to feel bad for Hello Games, they must have received tons of complaints about that trailer. Still they choose to let it sit there on the store page.

@shindig: Oh man if only !

Got a source?

@flasaltine: It's kinda like... I love video games... been playing them since 1975.

But I'm not going to treat them like they are anything more than... games.

There are a lot of important things in the world. Video games are not REALLY that.

Good.

@sweep said:

I believe this is the article that OP is referring to, if that's what you're looking for:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/09/28/asa-investigating-no-mans-skys-steam-advertising/

Wait, what are you talking about? Elite does have 3rd-person view, you just can't pilot your ship that way. It is there to take cool screenshots with, not playing with for various reasons. One being balance I think, as it would give you a tactical advantage if you could see more around you than your opponent. Look for the "Classified Camera View" I think in controls, it's "Ctrl+Alt+Space" by default if it has been set as default for you.
I also cannot see anything else on either their pictures or their text that is untrue. The only things in those pictures I haven't seen for myself are the things that seem to be from the CQC-mode, which I have not tried myself.

The amount of people defending Hello Games in this thread is utterly baffling to me. They have sold a game based on false advertising. They may not have been the first to do so but they sure are the most blatant example of this practice in recent years. It's only right that they are under investigation because of this. If only to send a message to other developers that consumers are sick of being bamboozeld by marketing bs like this.

Most of the pre-release footage was fake; moreover, the videos and screenshots still displayed on Steam are also fake. It is very clear why legal action is being taken. There may be a lot of upset people who bought NMS, but the Hello Games apologists are in equal numbers, and are just as vindictive. That being said, I've put over 60 hours into NMS and do not at all regret buying the game.

@geraltitude: I don't know if you read my original post but yes they have been involved in advertising for games before. Specifically with Valve and a misleading discount on a banner for GTA V. It took a while to get resolved so by the time it was resolved the deal was over, but it put them on watch for future issues.

The specifics of that issue were that Valve had a banner with a big 25% off sticker on GTA V. There wasn't actually 25% off GTA V but rather you could buy a bundle which included GTA V at 25% off.

Wait a minute! Are you telling me advertising is not for my benefit, but designed to entice me into buying a product?

The marketing for NMS should be more reflective of what the current product is sure, and absolutely should not be on the Steam page falsely representing the game. But we also don't live in a world where we make purchases based on the cover art and screenshots on the back of the box. If you were truly fooled by the visuals in these screenshots and videos you would have absolutely realized the game doesn't look like that within the first 2 hours and refunded the game. This investigation is just the product of entitled gamers crusading for revenge. Get over it. you bought into the marketing hype and got burned. Learn your lesson, refund the game if you can, and next time consider not pre-ordering something and instead wait for reviews if you're not absolutely sure.

Are they going to go after the like 256 different games in the 90s that had all those dope screenshots and such in gaming magazines that had little to do with what was in the final game? I think I will be happy when this game can just breathe and maybe HG can actually add to it.

Again, keep in mind that this is about the Steam store page specifically. Not any Sean interview or any claims made outside of it. That the store page does not represent the final product accurately is a hard fact, so I don't see why HG should be let off easily. But if ASA concludes there is no serious wrongdoing here, then I'll accept such decision. And if they say that HG broke the law, then they should be treated like anyone else who broke the law. Nothing personal.

The amount of people saying that nms shouldn't be called to task because other people falsely advertise is baffling. Do you not want the rights of consumers protected?

Hello Games had 2 choices: tackle everything head on and offer a comprehensive comment on all NMS post release strife, or bunker down and continue work on the game and hope for the best when it came to public perception. Option 2 can work out sometimes, but never for something with so many expectations and desires projected onto it. Them going radio silent has had the unwanted effect of people forming a narrative to combat their completely warranted grievances. Whether it's based in reality or not doesn't concern them.

Either way, it's safe to say Hello Games and Sean Murray's reputations have been broken and it's unlikely for them to be mended at this point. By the time the game gets to where people want it to be no one will care and the false narrative they cooked up will be the common interpretation for this whole fiasco.

Icarus flew too close to the sun. A tale as old as time.

That's fine, but just because something is deemed not "important"doesn't instantly absolve it of wrongdoings and the consequences that follow.
You might not care, but thankfully plenty of people see the value of protecting consumers and keeping the marketing of a multi-billion dollar industry honest.

games... of a multi-billion dollar industry in which consumers spend large amounts of money on.

Since a lot of people on this particular thread obviously didn't read the articles that this is based, the ASA is specifically investigating how NMS is advertised on it's steam page. They are doing their job. This isn't about entitled gamers, the ASA exist to investigate complaints made about advertising shown in the UK. This is what they are doing. They would do the same thing if it was an ad for biscuits or fucking biros. If someone feels that advertising directed at them in the UK is false or misleading then this organisation investigates it. They did the exact same thing a few years ago with COD 2. They work they do is important and helps ensure that ads are held to a specific standard.

Regardless of where you come down on this NMS issue at large, there is zero defense of them using the old BS trailer on Steam still right at the front page and that is what this is about.

It is insanity that they still use that. It's one thing to do that early in development and then move on but it's still the first thing you see.

It's hard to separate this obviously well intentioned investigation from the incessant hate "campaign" against NMS and Sean Murray.

So while it's a good thing that they're seeking to get that misleading trailer off the steam page. I also can't help but feel like this is just that group of people trying to drag Hello Games even further through the mud which it is already firmly embedded in.

@immunity: It's really not that hard to separate the two. The Hate campaign people are the ones screaming death threats at their screen, the ASA is a regulatory body that helps ensure people don't falsely advertise their product. The hate campaign are a bunch of fucking ridiculous children who want terrible things to happen to people because a game didn't meet their expectations, the ASA seeks to ensure that advertisements are a fair and accurate representation of a product. See? It's pretty straight forward.

It has nothing to do with dragging Hello games through the mud, it has everything to do with having inaccurate information removed from the Steam page like it should have been while the game was in development. This is about protecting consumer rights in the UK.

@arabes: I support the investigation since there are some real problems with the way NMS was advertised, intentional or otherwise. But the people who have been harassing Hello Games and Sean Murray are absolutely celebrating and supporting this which is where my conflict lies.

Bad people often enact their plans under the guise of good intentions. I don't think it's hard to see why some people are not backing this up 100%. There's a lot of shitty people that are going to be happy about this because it legitimizes their anger. I'm not saying this shouldn't happen because of that, but it stops me from being wholeheartedly pleased about it.

@immunity: The worst those bad people can do is have it so that the ASA investigates. If the ASA deems that the videos are misleading all Hello Games have to do is replace them with more accurate promotional material - there'll be no fines or other sanctions against them.

Shitty people will think it's a win, and to be honest it is. Not for the reasons they think but for consumers and advertising. If it works against Hello Games, then it could be used against other companies in gaming who are misleading consumers - and there could be a turn in the way games are promoted.

Great

All of this.

They may have to issue refunds to people who say they were missold as well, but other than that it may just lead to more legislation down the line.

Maybe I'm crazy for never taking pre-release material as promises and gospel... Maybe I'm crazy because I enjoyed my time with NMS through tempered expectations.

Maybe everyone else is crazy because they can't admit they bought into something they had no reason to believe and just want to be mad, but not at themselves in any way. I don't know what world those people live in, but the one I inhabit never taught me to be so trusting of people talking about a game that comes out in two years.

@whitegreyblack said:

I agree, but what kind of precedent?

- If it is about trailers not being released with content not in the game, they would have to go after quite a few publishers... remember the trailer for Dead Island? Or Prey 2? Or the several times when bullshots have been released as real screenshots.

- If it means not discussing features until the game is features closed, we should stop asking developers for comments until their games are in beta (real beta, not marketing beta), because before that everything is quick sand and up for editing. That affects specially games that start as kickstarters (yes, NMS is one of them), because everything released at that point is pretty much animated concept art.

I am not saying NMS didn't have PR issues, I just think most of them were exacerbated by having an inexperienced developer talk about the features instead of some PR representative. Most of the times, it seemed like he wasn't able to say "no" to any weird idea the public had and, even when the game was deep in development, he was unsure of the limits and was open to discussing any possible suggestion or addition (and then Internet took any discussion as a promise or a fact).

We need to bring legal action against every video game that isn't as good as I wanted it to be, it's my right as a consumer.

@hermes: The precedent would likely not make it so publishers and developers can't release their pie-in-the-sky trailers - it makes it so they can't use those materials to try to sell their game after it's released and does not reflect that early marketing material.

I think you're looking at the "precedent" idea from the wrong angle, as being a limitation from early development outwards. Instead, what this specific situation entails is the that development is done, the game is for sale, and Hello Games is still using their early trailers as marketing material that would imply they is indicative of what is in the product you are going to potentially purchase - which is not truthful.

I don't have a horse in this race. I realized very early that NMS was not going to be a game for me no matter how it turned out. However, I think it's a good thing for an advertising council to look at how games are marketed and for the industry to hopefully grow and mature and get a bit more honest as a result. Those implying that the ASA is conducting a campaign specifically targetted against Hello Games forgets that these associations and standards councils work based on the complaints they receive - they were alerted to the potentially misleading advertisement of a game and they look into it and make their recommendations/demands.

The specific thing they are investigating is the steam page where the first trailer that pops up is the first E3 trailer that looks wastly different from how the game is now.

Overpromising and not being clear that you overpromised before release is shitty, but not illegal. Overpromising in you advertisment after release is super shitty and might be illegal. We will have to see what they decide.

Also about this thread in general: I listened to the newest Reply all episode just now where they follow up on an episode they did about internet scams a couple of weeks back and one of the hosts mentioned some of the feedback they had gotten. Basicly a bunch of people had been kind of angry and said something to the effect of "how can you be so stupid to be scammed, I wouldn`t have been scammed" and seemingly being annoyed that they were trying to uncover the scammers and help people. I agree with the host`s sentiment to those people which was: So what? Because you weren`t scammed then people should not be angry at scammers? Are you pro scammer? If not why is this making you so agnry? Replace scam with false advertisement and I feel that it`s a weirdly fitting response to a lot of what people are saying in this thread.

It might be worth noting that I was never that hyped for NMS and never bought it so I don`t feel burned by Hello Games. Even so I think the marketing campaign for NMS both pre and post release has turned out to be a real shitshow.

@yummytreesap said:

1. This is not a legal action, as has been pointed out on this thread.

2. If you bought a game and it does not reflect what the trailers implied it would be, would you want to see those same trailers used as the up-front marketing on the game's Steam page trying to sell it to others? We need to work very hard to separate the rest of the terrible conversation around the game and the developers and all that, and look at how the industry can do better and be more honest with its customers. That is all this is about, really - no matter what a group of screaming 'NMS-truthers' might think they are accomplishing. The end result of this ASA investigation just might be a good thing.

Please, someone look into SWORDQUEST and take legal action. It ruined my life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swordquest

I DEMAND THE 4TH GAME...

Ohhhhhhhhhhh... my butt hurts.

@whitegreyblack: I understand that, I just think that NMS's marketing, for all the shitshow it was/is, it is not so different than many other games that promise the moon, just the most recent... except for one thing: as it started as an indie kickstarter, it gave people unrestricted access to the mind and intentions of the creator, which I don't think it is a bad thing, even in cases where neither the speaker and the listeners were capable of holding on expectations.

And even when I think they should break radio silence and take correcting actions, I still think it is a dangerous precedent when public agencies that know nothing about the process of making games start enforcing actions based on the complains of people that, also, know nothing about the process of making games. What is next? ASA intervening over Mass Effect 3 ending?

At least I appreciated that everything the staff of this site talked about when covering the game was a lot more leveled that the average "they are lying monsters. Worst than Stalin and Hitler put together. Off with their heads!" argument that dominates channels like youtube, because I think every conversation about the game dilutes into some version of that.

@hermes: I really think you are having trouble separating the discourse around the game from this ASA investigation and their findings.

This is just about the advertising of the game - it has nothing to do with "broken promises" or the quality of the game itself. The ASA's work "includes acting on complaints and proactively checking the media to take action against misleading, harmful or offensive advertisements." (ASA website). They don't pass judgement about whether a piece of media is good or not, but just whether the marketing materials for it are misleading.

Your slippery slope argument about the Mass Effect 3 ending would have nothing to do with an organization like the ASA, unless specific advertising claims were made about it. It's apples vs. oranges.

It literally says "Not actual game footage" and is cut like a 90s CG PC game intro, for all I know it could be the actual intro to the game. Frontier actually did what Hello Games should have done.

I don't really mind if a years-ago E3 trailer is placed directly on a game's store page, but it's not a great look and should definitely be labeled clearly for what it is.

@whitegreyblack: One of the reasons people complained about the ME3's ending was because they quoted the developers saying "the ending will vary depending on your decisions throughout the games". I couldn't find the actual quote, but if true, it would position ME3 in a similar light as NMS in terms of staff comments taken as advertisement, since a lot of the complains have been about Murray's declarations at different points of the development cycle...

My point about precedent is that I think they are being forced into "going against them" due to prominence and public pressure, when the game is just another example in how game marketing works, and far from excusing them, I don't think ASA is knowledgeable enough to pass judgement as if they were anything worst than dozens of examples that came before.

According to the OP, some of the factors include "user interface design", "structures and buildings as pictured", "speed of loading times", "size of creatures" and "quality of graphics", which for some people may sound like false advertisement, for me it just sounds like a video of a game still in development. Interface changes, art assets and even entire creatures are scrapped and promotional videos never realistically show stuff like "loading times" or anything other than impossibly high settings. Not even using a trailer that looks like, but it is not quite really, in-game footage in the steam store is atypical: look at the very first trailer for Bioshock in their page. Shitty? Yes. Worst than most? Questionable. New? Not at all...

If they want to start here, fine (it has to start somewhere). I just think it is fair if they go after the next one too... For example, they should go after Battlefield 1 if the trailer and the beta is any indication.

Anime Video Games were a mistake.

I'm being a little facetious. It's probably for the best for that video to be taken off the Steam page. It'd be totally fine, I think, if it weren't for the video stupidly having HUD elements and trying to look like gameplay when it isn't. There are plenty of trailers that aren't a 1:1 representation of what the gameplay is like, but not a ton of them try to look like they are. I get it as an E3 presentation, i.e. to show their gameplay vision, but it's a little less cool to use it as an advertising video after the fact.

So I actually agree, but also, this never happens if people weren't such petulant children about this game. I'd be surprised if Sean Murray continued making games, and it fucking sucks that that's what it's come to, that a dude trying a passion project, which got built up more than he and his small team could ever reasonably accommodate, has probably damned him from ever trying again.

@yummytreesap said:

Yeah, it's going to be sad if Hello Games, who has someone at the helm like Sean Murray who has lofty ambitions and a team of people with him that can pull off some neat stuff, gets pushed away from the medium.

As for this particular advertising standard investigation - something like this was going to happen, sometime, to some game and developer. As the medium matures, it needs to get better. Unfortunately, sometimes the products and people who get used as an example that leads a charge to change the industry (hopefully for the better) are nice, well-meaning, hard-working people who are treated rather poorly.

Geoff Keighley has possibly the most eloquent take on the whole mess that I really dig. Skip to 1:47:45.

@adequatelyprepared: I dunno - some of what Keighley said rubbed me completely the wrong way. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but some of the things he said seemed like he threw Murray and Hello Games completely under the bus; even moreso, in my opinion, than Shuhei Yoshida did recently.

Keighley (the bolding is mine): "the fact that a small 15-person team built and shipped a game like No Man's Sky is a stunning achievement and tireless personal sacrifice was made to bring it to life... but on the other hand, I have to think about the players who wanted to believe in something more than what was in the box when the game shipped in August. I don't think No Man's Sky is a bad game, it's just unfinished and repetitive - because, let's face it, games are crafted by skilled story-tellers and big teams." That stings a lot more, in my opinion, than Yoshida saying that No Man's Sky's PR was poor because Sean Murray is an indie developer - Keighley is saying the game is incomplete and repetitive because Hello Games is a small indie studio.

Keighley then talks about how he "disagreed with them about charging sixty dollars and putting it in a box, when I think what they should have done was, sort of, put it out as an early access game. He's not wrong that early access would have probably been a better approach, but it seems kind of poor etiquette to come out months and years later and say that you told the devs they should not do it this way, and your idea for the game launch would have been better.

Finally, Keighley finished by saying how his new YouTube show is going to do the things Hello Games did not ("we have the platform to start a two-way conversation - and that, in a way, is what No Man's Sky never did."). Felt like a low blow, and a shameless way to shill for his new show (the video is from the premiere of this new YouTube show, in case anyone was not aware).

Reminder to people defending Hello Games: They still have a wildly inaccurate gameplay trailer proudly displayed on Steam.

Do they deserve a 'hate campaign'? Nope but they do deserve to be criticised for deceptive messaging.

@whitegreyblack: This has previously happened with the ASA and Call Of Duty 2 and Call of Duty The Big Red One. This kind of thing isn't new.

Is that an inaccurate statement though? It seems pretty close to the mark to me. The core design concept struck me as over-ambitious for an indie studio from the get-go. The fact that so many people were expecting NMS to be the second-coming boggled my mind - especially given the fact that we had a plethora of extant examples of what can be achieved by indies (and even teams with larger budgets) in the realm of procedurally-generated survival games and space sims prior to NMS' release. None of them approached the product that Hello Games was hawking prior to release.

@arabes said:

I'm sorry, I'm not clear what you're referring to.

I'm not saying what Keighley is saying is necessarily wrong (which is why I only posted that it rubbed me the wrong way a bit, seemed a bit like throwing them under the bus, seemed like poor etiquette, etc. He's got his opinion of the developer and the game. I did not like the delivery of it, personally. Just my opinion.); I'm saying it's a bit... rude? Maybe that's the wrong word. Not sure what the term I'd use is, at the moment.

@hatking said:

There is no such thing as that "one" social narrative, both of these complaints are legit depending on from whom they come.
Case in point: Prior to release I didn't understand any of the hype the game got, I didn't listen to much of what Hello Games said about the game because everything about it was way too vague for my taste. For me that's a sure tell sign that a developer is trying to hide something, usually nothing good.

People that got hyped pre-release interpreted that very same vagueness as a sign of there being "amazing things that HG does not want to spoil", going as far as claiming there's multiplayer as Sean Murray's vague statements sure tried to give that impression. Those people obviously ended up very disappointed when they found out all the vagueness was not to prevent spoilers or hide amazing this, the vagueness sole purpose was to hide the games unfinished state and lack of hinted at features.

Actually a little surprised to hear the claims that British regulations regarding advertising would be unusually strict.

I just remember a bunch of Swedish TV broadcasters moving to the UK so they would be exempt from Swedish law regarding targeting advertising towards minors, or for that matter the British game publisher Actual Screenshots during the Amiga era, who plastered the name of the company all over their game boxes while not having any actual screenshots on there, just concept art.

@fisk0: I wonder if people assume British regulations are strict because Britain has notoriously easy to abuse libel laws?

That's genius. This is the country where whoever hacked a murdered child's phone is still in work.