We are talking about the words of one man over 2000 years ago not a huge historical event, unless it has been recorded somehow the very second, it can never be given 100% credibility.
Do you think that Jesus really existed?
"darthzew said:You really haven't read it have you? It actually says in the next verse or so that he was referring to himself. I actually got it wrong he said "destroy this temple and I will raise" not "I will destroy..."The last supper? The whole praying before Judas shows up? He somehow knew he was going to die. Just look at what he says "I will destroy this temple(referring to himself) and raise it in three days?" How would he know that?"
And just for the record, last time I checked, temple is not synonymous with "myself.""
"BiggerBomb said:"darthzew said:You really haven't read it have you? It actually says in the next verse or so that he was referring to himself. I actually got it wrong he said "destroy this temple and I will raise" not "I will destroy..." "The last supper? The whole praying before Judas shows up? He somehow knew he was going to die. Just look at what he says "I will destroy this temple(referring to himself) and raise it in three days?" How would he know that?"
And just for the record, last time I checked, temple is not synonymous with "myself.""
No, I have not read it and for that I am proud.
Something I'd just like to put in:
The earliest versions of the bible we have, from approximately 350 C.E., contains 6 gospels, not 4. In addition, none of the 6 gospels includes the resurrection story. This is consistent with the previously discovered dead sea scrolls, which contain a version of the Gospel of Mark that does not contain the resurrection story.
"darthzew said:That's not something to be proud of. You can read something and not believe it. I read some of the Quran but I don't believe any of it. I've even read atheist texts and don't believe in them. I'm proud I've read that stuff! That's one more point to my education. Ignorance should not equal pride, my friend."BiggerBomb said:"darthzew said:You really haven't read it have you? It actually says in the next verse or so that he was referring to himself. I actually got it wrong he said "destroy this temple and I will raise" not "I will destroy..." "The last supper? The whole praying before Judas shows up? He somehow knew he was going to die. Just look at what he says "I will destroy this temple(referring to himself) and raise it in three days?" How would he know that?"
And just for the record, last time I checked, temple is not synonymous with "myself.""
No, I have not read it and for that I am proud."
I would have to agree with you, the bible has a huge cultural value in the western world, that doesnt make it less boring to read but a lot of things around us are based upon the moral rules in the bible. It is pretty creepy really.That's not something to be proud of. You can read something and not believe it. I read some of the Quran but I don't believe any of it. I've even read atheist texts and don't believe in them. I'm proud I've read that stuff! That's one more point to my education. Ignorance should not equal pride, my friend. "
"BiggerBomb said:"darthzew said:That's not something to be proud of. You can read something and not believe it. I read some of the Quran but I don't believe any of it. I've even read atheist texts and don't believe in them. I'm proud I've read that stuff! That's one more point to my education. Ignorance should not equal pride, my friend. ""BiggerBomb said:"darthzew said:You really haven't read it have you? It actually says in the next verse or so that he was referring to himself. I actually got it wrong he said "destroy this temple and I will raise" not "I will destroy..." "The last supper? The whole praying before Judas shows up? He somehow knew he was going to die. Just look at what he says "I will destroy this temple(referring to himself) and raise it in three days?" How would he know that?"
And just for the record, last time I checked, temple is not synonymous with "myself.""
No, I have not read it and for that I am proud."
I haven't watched snuff films, should I not be proud of that?
"darthzew said:That's different. I used the Bible and Quran as examples because they're both religious teachings... keyword: teachings. I even said I've read atheist texts, also teachings. Be proud you haven't done supported something morally wrong but don't be proud you've been intentionally ignorant of what a good portion of the world believes to be truth. Snuff films have no value but stuff like Nietchze and Christ do."BiggerBomb said:"darthzew said:That's not something to be proud of. You can read something and not believe it. I read some of the Quran but I don't believe any of it. I've even read atheist texts and don't believe in them. I'm proud I've read that stuff! That's one more point to my education. Ignorance should not equal pride, my friend. ""BiggerBomb said:"darthzew said:You really haven't read it have you? It actually says in the next verse or so that he was referring to himself. I actually got it wrong he said "destroy this temple and I will raise" not "I will destroy..." "The last supper? The whole praying before Judas shows up? He somehow knew he was going to die. Just look at what he says "I will destroy this temple(referring to himself) and raise it in three days?" How would he know that?"
And just for the record, last time I checked, temple is not synonymous with "myself.""
No, I have not read it and for that I am proud."
I haven't watched snuff films, should I not be proud of that?"
"BiggerBomb said:"darthzew said:That's different. I used the Bible and Quran as examples because they're both religious teachings... keyword: teachings. I even said I've read atheist texts, also teachings. Be proud you haven't done supported something morally wrong but don't be proud you've been intentionally ignorant of what a good portion of the world believes to be truth. Snuff films have no value but stuff like Nietchze and Christ do. ""BiggerBomb said:"darthzew said:That's not something to be proud of. You can read something and not believe it. I read some of the Quran but I don't believe any of it. I've even read atheist texts and don't believe in them. I'm proud I've read that stuff! That's one more point to my education. Ignorance should not equal pride, my friend. ""BiggerBomb said:"darthzew said:You really haven't read it have you? It actually says in the next verse or so that he was referring to himself. I actually got it wrong he said "destroy this temple and I will raise" not "I will destroy..." "The last supper? The whole praying before Judas shows up? He somehow knew he was going to die. Just look at what he says "I will destroy this temple(referring to himself) and raise it in three days?" How would he know that?"
And just for the record, last time I checked, temple is not synonymous with "myself.""
No, I have not read it and for that I am proud."
I haven't watched snuff films, should I not be proud of that?"
I have read many books, largely philosophical by nature. My favorite book is Animal Farm and right now I'm reading Machiavelli's The Prince. From my perspective, the Bible is as useful of a read as Harry Potter (though I actually did love that series of books.)
Why is it that a historical text losing credibility and faith everyday, is valuable for me to read? I know the major ten commandments, I know of Kane/Abel, I know of Job, I know of Noah's Ark, I know of the plagues, I know of the Garden of Eden, and I know other famous tales and teachings of the Bible. How? Because those are stories that are naturally saturated in society, even though the number of people who read the Bible is decreasing rapidly. I know of most of the things that matter in the Bible, but I do not need to read the book to be taught moral and cultural lessons. There are so many other ways to do so and those I will always prefer.
"BiggerBomb said:The problem here isn't that you haven't read it... it's that you're proud you haven't. I haven't sat down and read any of the book of mormom. I'm not proud of that. And to your "perspective"... I'm willing to take your view seriously and I'm wondering why you can't take mine that way."darthzew said:
That's different. I used the Bible and Quran as examples because they're both religious teachings... keyword: teachings. I even said I've read atheist texts, also teachings. Be proud you haven't done supported something morally wrong but don't be proud you've been intentionally ignorant of what a good portion of the world believes to be truth. Snuff films have no value but stuff like Nietchze and Christ do. "
I have read many books, largely philosophical by nature. My favorite book is Animal Farm and right now I'm reading Machiavelli's The Prince. From my perspective, the Bible is as useful of a read as Harry Potter (though I actually did love that series of books.)
Why is it that a historical text losing credibility and faith everyday, is valuable for me to read? I know the major ten commandments, I know of Kane/Abel, I know of Job, I know of Noah's Ark, I know of the plagues, I know of the Garden of Eden, and I know other famous tales and teachings of the Bible. How? Because those are stories that are naturally saturated in society, even though the number of people who read the Bible is decreasing rapidly. I know of most of the things that matter in the Bible, but I do not need to read the book to be taught moral and cultural lessons. There are so many other ways to do so and those I will always prefer."
"BiggerBomb said:"BiggerBomb said:The problem here isn't that you haven't read it... it's that you're proud you haven't. I haven't sat down and read any of the book of mormom. I'm not proud of that. And to your "perspective"... I'm willing to take your view seriously and I'm wondering why you can't take mine that way. ""darthzew said:
That's different. I used the Bible and Quran as examples because they're both religious teachings... keyword: teachings. I even said I've read atheist texts, also teachings. Be proud you haven't done supported something morally wrong but don't be proud you've been intentionally ignorant of what a good portion of the world believes to be truth. Snuff films have no value but stuff like Nietchze and Christ do. "
I have read many books, largely philosophical by nature. My favorite book is Animal Farm and right now I'm reading Machiavelli's The Prince. From my perspective, the Bible is as useful of a read as Harry Potter (though I actually did love that series of books.)
Why is it that a historical text losing credibility and faith everyday, is valuable for me to read? I know the major ten commandments, I know of Kane/Abel, I know of Job, I know of Noah's Ark, I know of the plagues, I know of the Garden of Eden, and I know other famous tales and teachings of the Bible. How? Because those are stories that are naturally saturated in society, even though the number of people who read the Bible is decreasing rapidly. I know of most of the things that matter in the Bible, but I do not need to read the book to be taught moral and cultural lessons. There are so many other ways to do so and those I will always prefer."
I am proud that I am not contributing to the propagation of a book that's stories circulate misinformation about our race's history and origin, thus propagating ignorance and close-minded thinking.
If you draw your faith from the Bible, I do respect that. What I cannot take seriously is anyone who takes the stories literally and at face value. Not only is that a demonstration of a person's utter stupidity, it is a misinterpretation of the Bible itself.
I'd put money on Jesus existing, but none of the hocus pocus surrounding him.
"darthzew said:And where you're wrong is in that I take the Bible completely literally. A good portion of it is subject to interpretation. For instance, the book of Genesis. Quite a few believe that the world wasn't created in six days, but that God used evolution and the Big Bang. You lose credibility when call people stupid. It's true what they say: "it takes one to know one", so beware. I've faced that before."BiggerBomb said:"BiggerBomb said:The problem here isn't that you haven't read it... it's that you're proud you haven't. I haven't sat down and read any of the book of mormom. I'm not proud of that. And to your "perspective"... I'm willing to take your view seriously and I'm wondering why you can't take mine that way. ""darthzew said:
That's different. I used the Bible and Quran as examples because they're both religious teachings... keyword: teachings. I even said I've read atheist texts, also teachings. Be proud you haven't done supported something morally wrong but don't be proud you've been intentionally ignorant of what a good portion of the world believes to be truth. Snuff films have no value but stuff like Nietchze and Christ do. "
I have read many books, largely philosophical by nature. My favorite book is Animal Farm and right now I'm reading Machiavelli's The Prince. From my perspective, the Bible is as useful of a read as Harry Potter (though I actually did love that series of books.)
Why is it that a historical text losing credibility and faith everyday, is valuable for me to read? I know the major ten commandments, I know of Kane/Abel, I know of Job, I know of Noah's Ark, I know of the plagues, I know of the Garden of Eden, and I know other famous tales and teachings of the Bible. How? Because those are stories that are naturally saturated in society, even though the number of people who read the Bible is decreasing rapidly. I know of most of the things that matter in the Bible, but I do not need to read the book to be taught moral and cultural lessons. There are so many other ways to do so and those I will always prefer."
I am proud that I am not contributing to the propagation of a book that's stories circulate misinformation about our race's history and origin, thus propagating ignorance and close-minded thinking.
If you draw your faith from the Bible, I do respect that. What I cannot take seriously is anyone who takes the stories literally and at face value. Not only is that a demonstration of a person's utter stupidity, it is a misinterpretation of the Bible itself."
The ignoranace and closed-minded thinking is a result of the person, not what they read. I guess I'll use myself as an example. I'm not closed-minded and I'm a Christian. I'll use you as a counter-example: you're proud of ignorance and you're being closed-minded. It would appear as though you haven't looked at any other view other than your own as being acceptable. I'm not saying you have to read the whole BIble, I've never sat down and read the whole thing from front to back. I am saying that you should be a little more open-minded about it, just as I've been about your, I'm assuming, atheistic views.
"BiggerBomb said:"darthzew said:And where you're wrong is in that I take the Bible completely literally. A good portion of it is subject to interpretation. For instance, the book of Genesis. Quite a few believe that the world wasn't created in six days, but that God used evolution and the Big Bang. You lose credibility when call people stupid. It's true what they say: "it takes one to know one", so beware. I've faced that before."BiggerBomb said:"BiggerBomb said:The problem here isn't that you haven't read it... it's that you're proud you haven't. I haven't sat down and read any of the book of mormom. I'm not proud of that. And to your "perspective"... I'm willing to take your view seriously and I'm wondering why you can't take mine that way. ""darthzew said:
That's different. I used the Bible and Quran as examples because they're both religious teachings... keyword: teachings. I even said I've read atheist texts, also teachings. Be proud you haven't done supported something morally wrong but don't be proud you've been intentionally ignorant of what a good portion of the world believes to be truth. Snuff films have no value but stuff like Nietchze and Christ do. "
I have read many books, largely philosophical by nature. My favorite book is Animal Farm and right now I'm reading Machiavelli's The Prince. From my perspective, the Bible is as useful of a read as Harry Potter (though I actually did love that series of books.)
Why is it that a historical text losing credibility and faith everyday, is valuable for me to read? I know the major ten commandments, I know of Kane/Abel, I know of Job, I know of Noah's Ark, I know of the plagues, I know of the Garden of Eden, and I know other famous tales and teachings of the Bible. How? Because those are stories that are naturally saturated in society, even though the number of people who read the Bible is decreasing rapidly. I know of most of the things that matter in the Bible, but I do not need to read the book to be taught moral and cultural lessons. There are so many other ways to do so and those I will always prefer."
I am proud that I am not contributing to the propagation of a book that's stories circulate misinformation about our race's history and origin, thus propagating ignorance and close-minded thinking.
If you draw your faith from the Bible, I do respect that. What I cannot take seriously is anyone who takes the stories literally and at face value. Not only is that a demonstration of a person's utter stupidity, it is a misinterpretation of the Bible itself."The ignoranace and closed-minded thinking is a result of the person, not what they read. I guess I'll use myself as an example. I'm not closed-minded and I'm a Christian. I'll use you as a counter-example: you're proud of ignorance and you're being closed-minded. It would appear as though you haven't looked at any other view other than your own as being acceptable. I'm not saying you have to read the whole BIble, I've never sat down and read the whole thing from front to back. I am saying that you should be a little more open-minded about it, just as I've been about your, I'm assuming, atheistic views."
If you (general you) say that God created evolution and the Big Bang, that is not Christianity. That is Deism and it is not Genesis. Should anyone take Genesis literally it is demonstrating a close-minded thinking. Scientific evidence as surfaced that has disproven Genesis, even the Catholic Church is beginning to accept this. To deny the facts in favor of a disproven theory (and previously unproven theory) is close-minded. You also maintain the assertion that I am proud of ignorance. You have half of that right, I am proud. If I am ignorant of anything, I would not be knowledgable of what I should be proud of. I am proud of not taking metaphorical stories literally.
You act as if I haven't analyzed other points of view, I have been to Church. I have Catholic relatives. I have heard Christian ideas. I have analyzed these ideas and I disagree with them. I spend all of my days thinking because I'm too lazy to do any school work. The meaning and origin of life are all encompassing phenomena that I think about, to some degree or another, every single day.
You have a flawed argument, and I am not talking about your religious beliefs. I'm speaking of your view of me. You seem to have impression that I'm an atheist. I'm not. This is why I'm open-minded, I acknowledge that I do not know what is out there. I have listened to atheist philosophy and I find it equally absurd as religious philosophy. To suggest that all is science and all is chance is something that I cannot accept because it is not proven and it doesn't make sense to me. Life is too elaborate, too seemingly hand-crafted to be simple chemical reactions and evolutionary cycles. On the other hand, I accept what scientific evidence has proven, such as evolution. I accept what science has disproven of religion.
I am acknowledging that the scientific community is correct about evolution, but I disagree with the atheist theories that there is no higher power behind it. I am not saying it is the work of any divine power, I don't know. I believe, for at least now, we are as a whole incapable of comprehending our origins. I hear the stories told among organized religious groups and they sound like they came out of the mouth of J.K. Rowling. I see the shit hitting the fan around the world, everything is falling apart around us, and no divine intervention has occured. Terrible events happen every day; be it murder, rape, and other immoral actions without any immortal figures intervening. There is genocide in Africa, nuclear proliferation in terrorist states, economies are crashing, and tensions are rising. It is not just now, it is throughout history.
Was there a god so powerful as your own, there would be no need for this. There would not be suffering in the world, all wouldn't be punished because some girl ate an apple. By the way, there is an example. That story is meant to make an example of how curiousity can be dangerous, how disobedience can have consequences. That should not be taken literally. On the same note, this demonizing of curiousity leads to the formation of places like "The Bible Belt" of America. For those who do not know what that is, it's an area of the U.S. populated by people who take the Bible so literally that they will not accept any scientific theory. Not one of them. That is complacent ignorance.
In the face or proven facts, should people refuse to accept these they are close-minded. In the face of unproven and disproven theories, should one refuse to accept these does not make them close-minded. It makes them realistic.
Belief in Christianity and evolution isn't deism. Not necessarily. Deism is the belief that God made the world but doesn't act in it anymore. I believe he's still at work here. The Bible never says the world is going to be perfect. In fact, it acknowledges flaws and it even says that the world is going to gradually get worse until the end times. It's a matter of faith that it's all for good. Eventually, somehow all the suffering is to make things better in the end.
I acknowledge that I made an assumption about you. I even said "I'm assuming" just to be sure. As for evolution, I'm not sure what I believe. I'll readily admit that. On one hand, you have strong evidence that we evolved but there's also strong evidence against it. It's not proven fact. Yet. In the end, it doesn't matter what I believe on that topic. I've kept an open-mind on it and one day, my views may be made concrete on the matter. And onto the Eve story... there's two possibilities: either A, it IS a metaphor or B, there's more to it. Genesis was written by Moses who wasn't actually there, so we'll really never know what happened. The theory behind theistic evolution is that it IS a metaphor. There's no way that the people of Israel could comprehend four point six billion years. So, God found another way to explain it.
Christianity is bigger than catholicism. Believe it or not, protestant Christians like myself, don't believe that catholicism is part of true Christianity. I'm not sure exaclty how to explain it, but it mostly stems from their worship of Mary. It's a variation of a good thing. I don't like organized religion, at least not organized on that scale. I don't think that's what God wants.
You know, if there were no need for suffering... then there's no need for the world. There's no need for God to have even made us. He's got a purpose for all of it, but like you said... it's beyond our comprehension. I said you're closed-minded because you refuse to read the Bible and you're proud of it. Give at least one of the Gospels a read, just one. It probably won't take you twenty-thirty minutes. Heck, you might learn something. Giving it a read won't be contributing to this global conspiracy theory about the origin of our people. I'm not asking you to read it because I'm trying to convert you, I just want you to humble me here.
You are absolutely right that the Bible Belt is complacent ignorance. They make the rest of us look bad. I think that nearly everything should be taught in schools. The thing that most Christians have wrong is that we're supposed to shove our views down other people's throats. We're not. We're supposed to believe that we're right and openly confess that we believe in Christ. We're also supposed to get others to see it our way. We're supposed to be missionaries, spreading light to others. Christians try to force their beliefs on others. I don't do that. The BIble actually teaches that we're supposed to have something, Jesus, that others will want. We're supposed to speak through actions and I desperately wish that other "Christians" would start learning that. I'm looking at Westboro Baptist Church here.
Hey, look, I've had a chance to reevaluate my views here and I enjoyed it. Thanks. I'll respond to your response tomorrow. In the meantime, it's about time for me to crash. Peace.
I've read the Old Testament (and know it better than most people), I've read the Bible, I'll have read the Quran by January. The texts are interesting reads. I'm probably as atheist as they come, but I still find them useful cultural textbooks. There's nothing wrong with learning, Bigger.
darthzew said:
Give at least one of the Gospels a read, just one. It probably won't take you twenty-thirty minutes. Heck, you might learn something. Giving it a read won't be contributing to this global conspiracy theory about the origin of our people. I'm not asking you to read it because I'm trying to convert you, I just want you to humble me here.You are absolutely right that the Bible Belt is complacent ignorance. They make the rest of us look bad. I think that nearly everything should be taught in schools. The thing that most Christians have wrong is that we're supposed to shove our views down other people's throats. We're not. We're supposed to believe that we're right and openly confess that we believe in Christ. We're also supposed to get others to see it our way. We're supposed to be missionaries, spreading light to others. Christians try to force their beliefs on others. I don't do that. The BIble actually teaches that we're supposed to have something, Jesus, that others will want. We're supposed to speak through actions and I desperately wish that other "Christians" would start learning that. I'm looking at Westboro Baptist Church here.Hey, look, I've had a chance to reevaluate my views here and I enjoyed it. Thanks. I'll respond to your response tomorrow. In the meantime, it's about time for me to crash. Peace."
If I ever have a chance, I'll try to take you up on that offer of reading a gospel. I did enjoy this, I just wanted to elaborate more on my beliefs. I do not have contempt for the religious, I have contempt for evangelists. My mom's brother's family is the type that believes that it is somehow offensive to not be Christian, they are not open with this of course, but it is obvious nonetheless. It seems to be difficult for them that there are two Jewish in-laws in the family (one being my dad.) I once put on my facebook "Scientology" as my religious views, just for shits and giggles, and my cousin writes on my wall asking me to explain why I was a Scientologist...
It's those people that, ugh. I can't stand them. I get where you're coming from though and I respect that.
So take it easy (the good kind of take it easy,) bro.
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