Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Avatar image for omega
Omega

916

Forum Posts

270

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 6

#1  Edited By Omega

Ok so I decided to watch Expelled which if you don't know is a documentary on Intelligent Design and the discrimination of non evolutionist scientists. I didn't expect much, and I didn't get much.

SPOILERS (is it really necessary? Its a documentary. Better safe than sorry I guess)

The doc starts off with Ben Stein going around and interviewing scientists and teachers who have lost their jobs and the respect of their peers because they questioned the validity of evolution. I can see their point of view, I think they should be able to question main stream ideas as long as they have compelling evidence. I was also interested in the fact that these scientists didn't want to be thought of as creationists or Christians. This is important to note because I'll expand on this later in the review.

The next section dropped some science on us, but it was highly flawed. They attempted to disprove evolution rather than prove intelligent design thinking that by disproving evolution, they would prove intelligent design. One part in particular spoke of how unlikely it would be for life to begin on earth unless it was placed there by something. The metaphor they used was getting jackpot on 250 slot machines at once. All I could think about was "Sure that seems unlikely, but if you had billions of years to continue pulling the lever eventually you will hit a jackpot on every slot machine." But they never elaborated on that slot machine metaphor.

This is where the doc gets crazy.

Ben Stein begins to speak about the similarities between evolutionists and nazi's. He even believes that the theory of evolution lead to the holocaust. He links these two ideas through eugenics. Eugenics was the practice of sterilizing those who are beleived to be a genetic burden so they cannot pass on their flawed genes. It was mostly preformed on retarded people hoping that some day people wouldnt be born with any mental defects because the flawed genes would have been removed from the gene pool. It was practiced in many countries including America and Canada in the early 1900's. The practice was stopped everywhere by the 70's.

He uses Eugenics as a stepping stone to the last part of the doc. The secret evolutionist agenda. He believes that evolutionists are trying to speed along human evolution by tricking the poor and stupid into not reproducing. Thus strengthening the gene pool for the smart rich people. They do this through planned parenthood. Thats right abortion is just the latest form of eugenics
and we evil evolutionist elitests are tricking young pregnant trailer park women into abortion so that she wouldnt pass on her flawed genes poisoning the gene pool.

After an interview with Richard Dawkins. Which is stupid because he is not an evolutionary biologist who could give first hand facts. He is a university science professor who writes books on the dangers of Christianity and other God based religions.
This is the last nail in Ben Steins science coffin. At the beginning of the doc it is plainly stated that Intelligent design is not a religious idea. If Ben sits down with a man like Richard Dawkins and debates the existence of god, then clearly this whole doc is tainted, and none of it can be considered science. He ends the doc with a monologue on how we have to work together and not persecute each others beliefs.

So to sum up, evolution is a nazi theory, people who are poor are also stupid. Only stupid people have abortions. Christians are the persecuted minority in America. I watched it because I was curious about how Christians and other Creationists get their ideas. I cannot believe that there are people out there that belive the things that are in that documentary.

What do you think?   

Avatar image for williamrlbaker
WilliamRLBaker

4941

Forum Posts

1420

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#2  Edited By WilliamRLBaker

LOL rich people are smart? have you seen some of these kids? they are pure retards.

Avatar image for williamrlbaker
WilliamRLBaker

4941

Forum Posts

1420

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#3  Edited By WilliamRLBaker

Man i actually respected ben stein at one time but really hes part of this...*shakes head*  Creationist if we were created in gods image and god is perfect then we are perfect but this is far from the case.

*mind you i am a believer in god and evolution, I mix the 2, god created the catalyst then stepped back and watched his grand experiment*

Avatar image for snipzor
Snipzor

3471

Forum Posts

57

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 1

#4  Edited By Snipzor

Having also watching this piece of shit, I just want to point out a couple of things. One of the interviews of a former editor in a scientific journal was never an editor and was not fired for his viewpoints, but rather for cheating his way into placing a Pro-Intelligent Design article without any say from the actual editors. Another being that the interviews are botched and the topics told were completely unrelated.

Basically, Expelled is a Straw Man that doesn't even work.

Great review though.
Avatar image for twoonefive
TwoOneFive

9793

Forum Posts

203

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#5  Edited By TwoOneFive
Avatar image for gunner
Gunner

4424

Forum Posts

248

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 6

#6  Edited By Gunner

Im going to have to check it out, i usually look up to Ben Stein but im not so sure now... Im all for looking for even further advances in science but evolution is a pretty well accepted and proven fact by now.

Avatar image for fade2gray
Fade2Gray

181

Forum Posts

3302

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 5

#7  Edited By Fade2Gray

Interesting, I was recently considering blogging on the same subject (the Ben Stein movie) from the perspective of a Christian who accepts the theory of evolution. I agree with some of your final comments that it truly is remarkable, I'd use the word disheartening even, that so many Christians still reject evolution out of hand. Stein, like so many, really misrepresents what I.D. really believes. I.D. says that God created life, allowed it to evolve (yes, ID does postulate some basic, rudimentary evolutionary process) until the process simply stalled, failed, displeased God, whatever. At this point God is believed by ID proponents to have monkeyed with the works, if you will, by directly injecting new DNA into the evolutionary process that ID proponents claim could not have developed on its own by natural means, thus spurring evolution along a path desirable to God.

I've spoken with many people who claim to believe in Intelligent Design that have NO IDEA that this is actually what they believe in. Most people think that it has something to do with God either specifically designing each creature on Earth by hand (which would be Creationism) or that God predetermined the path of Evolution in some way (basically that evolution works fine, but that God wanted it to head in a certain direction). I think many would find ID insulting once they know what it is and think about it for a while. ID rests on the fundamental belief that God intentionally created a fundamentally flawed mechanism for creating life. If evolution was unable to create life as He saw fit without His intervention then He created a flawed system... end of story.

Spin-laden filth like Expelled just sickens me. It does nothing to advance the debate in any meaningful may and instead relies on half-truths and base demonetization of the other side (What I would call Michael Moore tactics). For anyone who's interested, there is an excellent book by Francis Collins, the former head of the Human Genome Project, called "The language of God" which suggest that scientific Evolution and Christianity don't have to be, in fact SHOULDN'T be, considered antithetical. He calls this view Biologos (Bio for scientific biology and Logos, the Greek word for 'word,' for Christ). Maybe someday we can hope this view becomes the norm among my fellow Christians rather than a philosophy driven by ignorance and fear mongering like ID.

Avatar image for retroice4
RetroIce4

4433

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8  Edited By RetroIce4

I am lost. Can't people just believe in evolution or not believe in it? Does it really matter?

Avatar image for omega
Omega

916

Forum Posts

270

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 6

#9  Edited By Omega

Thanks for your comments guys I've been wondering what peoples opinion on Expelled was and it's great to see so many positive comments. I was worried there might be a huge fight.

@snipzor
I was aware that many of the people interviewed lost their job for mundane reasons. But I forgot to add it to my review. Thanks for adding that fact to the thread and for reminding me.

@Fade2Gray and WilliamRLBaker
I don't agree with most Christians on many topics but I'm glad that there are many Christians who understand the science behind, and are not threatened by the idea of, evolution.

And thanks for taking the time to read my review.

Avatar image for gunner
Gunner

4424

Forum Posts

248

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 6

#10  Edited By Gunner

Found a video about it on youtube, Very biased (fox news) but at least ben stein explains himself a little bit.

  
Avatar image for chililili
chililili

1432

Forum Posts

5932

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 7

#11  Edited By chililili

I won't ever getting around to watching that movie myself (I have far better movies or activities on my to do list) but thanks for the review. Its a sad state the world is in. Also Stein's theory is pretty farn stupid, have you not seen Idiocracy? Stupid people reproduce in much higher numbers.

Well, I'm glad I got into this thread before it devolved into random hating and slandering from trolls.

Avatar image for toowalrus
toowalrus

13408

Forum Posts

29

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#12  Edited By toowalrus

This movie is just as shitty as the theory of evolution.

Avatar image for bog
BoG

5390

Forum Posts

42127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 5

#13  Edited By BoG

Well, quite simply, I think that any who believes that the two ideas aren't compatible is a fool. I'm a christian, but I think evolution is a very real phenomena, it's God's heuristic. Maybe I'm crazy, but whatever. You can't deny evolution, that's idiotic.

Avatar image for gunner
Gunner

4424

Forum Posts

248

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 6

#14  Edited By Gunner
BoG said:
"Well, quite simply, I think that any who believes that the two ideas aren't compatible is a fool. I'm a christian, but I think evolution is a very real phenomena, it's God's heuristic. Maybe I'm crazy, but whatever. You can't deny evolution, that's idiotic."
Im willing to believe in anything that seems plausible and is proven and/or widely accepted as a scientific fact. If one day scientists come up with hard proven facts that there is/was actually a god than im all for accepting that.

there is a great analogy that one great scientist said.

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."
Avatar image for bog
BoG

5390

Forum Posts

42127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 5

#15  Edited By BoG
Gunner said:
"BoG said:
"Well, quite simply, I think that any who believes that the two ideas aren't compatible is a fool. I'm a christian, but I think evolution is a very real phenomena, it's God's heuristic. Maybe I'm crazy, but whatever. You can't deny evolution, that's idiotic."
Im willing to believe in anything that seems plausible and is proven and/or widely accepted as a scientific fact. If one day scientists come up with hard proven facts that there is/was actually a god than im all for accepting that.

there is a great analogy that one great scientist said.

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.""
One great scientist, one great straw man.
Avatar image for thrawn1
Thrawn1

1417

Forum Posts

78

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#17  Edited By Thrawn1

I'm surprised that I haven't forced myself to watch this "documentary" yet...

Avatar image for the_ish
The_Ish

476

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18  Edited By The_Ish
Tarsier said:
"Of course they are not trying to prove intelligent design by disproving evolution.... that's silly to say that, they're simply saying that evolution should not be taught as a "fact" rather than a hypothesis or theory like it is. People should not be made to look like fools when they get into high school because they believe in something more than the physical world. School should show both sides of the argument instead of being one sided.
"
Except Intelligence Design isn't science, and that's why scientists and science teachers lose their jobs for supporting it.
Avatar image for chililili
chililili

1432

Forum Posts

5932

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 7

#19  Edited By chililili
BoG said:
"Gunner said:
"BoG said:
"Well, quite simply, I think that any who believes that the two ideas aren't compatible is a fool. I'm a christian, but I think evolution is a very real phenomena, it's God's heuristic. Maybe I'm crazy, but whatever. You can't deny evolution, that's idiotic."
Im willing to believe in anything that seems plausible and is proven and/or widely accepted as a scientific fact. If one day scientists come up with hard proven facts that there is/was actually a god than im all for accepting that.

there is a great analogy that one great scientist said.

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.""
One great scientist, one great straw man."
Dude that's not a scientist that's Bertrand Russell a XX century playwright/novelist. A very smart man who made very good literature and was pretty antireligon, anticlerical, and atheist. Its an argument called "Russell's Teapot". I find it to be a very nice and funny argument. But religious people tend to not find it so funny or not get it.

I am just putting this so people know from who the quote is and if they want can google him.
Avatar image for gunner
Gunner

4424

Forum Posts

248

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 6

#20  Edited By Gunner
chililili said:
"BoG said:
"Gunner said:
"BoG said:
"Well, quite simply, I think that any who believes that the two ideas aren't compatible is a fool. I'm a christian, but I think evolution is a very real phenomena, it's God's heuristic. Maybe I'm crazy, but whatever. You can't deny evolution, that's idiotic."
Im willing to believe in anything that seems plausible and is proven and/or widely accepted as a scientific fact. If one day scientists come up with hard proven facts that there is/was actually a god than im all for accepting that.

there is a great analogy that one great scientist said.

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.""
One great scientist, one great straw man."
Dude that's not a scientist that's Bertrand Russell a XX century playwright/novelist. A very smart man who made very good literature and was pretty antireligon, anticlerical, and atheist. Its an argument called "Russell's Teapot". I find it to be a very nice and funny argument. But religious people tend to not find it so funny or not get it.

I am just putting this so people know from who the quote is and if they want can google him."
Ah, thanks for the correction. But i dont want to turn this thread into a religion vs. atheism thread so to get back on topic.

Tarsier said:
"Of course they are not trying to prove intelligent design by disproving evolution.... that's silly to say that, they're simply saying that evolution should not be taught as a "fact" rather than a hypothesis or theory like it is. People should not be made to look like fools when they get into high school because they believe in something more than the physical world. School should show both sides of the argument instead of being one sided.
"
Most of science is theory, we cant physically prove half of the things we know about our own earth but we have proven them mathematically and with common sense. So just because we dont know all of the answers, it doesnt make them incorrect. Evolution is the most solid theory we have about where everything came from and while it still has some inaccuracies and holes it still makes more sense than believing that there was a creator with the only proof being ancient books and writings. That is not science, that is religion.
Avatar image for optiow
Optiow

1785

Forum Posts

1037

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 2

#21  Edited By Optiow
WilliamRLBaker said:
"LOL rich people are smart? have you seen some of these kids? they are pure retards."
Aye, most are.
Avatar image for optiow
Optiow

1785

Forum Posts

1037

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 2

#22  Edited By Optiow
WilliamRLBaker said:
"LOL rich people are smart? have you seen some of these kids? they are pure retards."
Aye, most are.
Avatar image for adam_grif
adam_grif

1170

Forum Posts

383

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#23  Edited By adam_grif

Expelled: No intelligence allowed is the dumbest piece of shit video I've ever had the displeasure of viewing. Everybody who watched it dumber for having done so. Ben Stein is a lying, pseudoscientific, puritanical dumb-fuck who deserves to be killed for stealing oxygen that was supposed to be for real people.

Avatar image for deactivated-57b1d7d14d4a5
deactivated-57b1d7d14d4a5

2945

Forum Posts

950

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 3

Heh, seems the title was aptly named.

Avatar image for omega
Omega

916

Forum Posts

270

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 6

#25  Edited By Omega
adam_grif said:
"Expelled: No intelligence allowed is the dumbest piece of shit video I've ever had the displeasure of viewing. Everybody who watched it dumber for having done so. Ben Stein is a lying, pseudoscientific, puritanical dumb-fuck who deserves to be killed for stealing oxygen that was supposed to be for real people."
Thats why I like you adam_grif you've always got something nice to say about everybody.
Avatar image for adam_grif
adam_grif

1170

Forum Posts

383

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#26  Edited By adam_grif
Omega said:
"adam_grif said:
"Expelled: No intelligence allowed is the dumbest piece of shit video I've ever had the displeasure of viewing. Everybody who watched it dumber for having done so. Ben Stein is a lying, pseudoscientific, puritanical dumb-fuck who deserves to be killed for stealing oxygen that was supposed to be for real people."
Thats why I like you adam_grif you've always got something nice to say about everybody."
<3