I'm afraid for vegetarians

"

@Sick_J0ke said:

"@pirate_republic:

First off, just because fear was the only emotional response recorded from a cow doesn't make it  any better. Sadness is an emotion derived from fear, a psychologist will tell you that. So it's hard to directly measure sadness. 

Second, because something doesn't have the capacity for in-depth emotions makes it okay to kill them for food? Really?! Well then while we're at it I guess we should cook ourselves up some babies.... or even the mentally disabled! MMmmm delicious. 

Third, highest on the food chain? Yea we're so dangerous and badass that we need other people to kill the animal and prepare the meat for us. If you really think we're high on the food chain then do this... buy a goat, and try to kill it, let me know how that goes... Using the "we're the best, biggest, baddest people in the food chain" excuse is not a valid argument. Eating meat is a personal choice, not a necessity of our species. 

"

Hmmm... have you ever seen a national geographic nature documentary on, say, lions in Africa? They mercilessly kill, ripping cute little [insert prey here] like it's nothing. Do you think that's right or wrong? You mentioned that just because we're on the top of the food chain doesn't mean we have the right to kill... what about those lions? They're pretty much on the top of the food chain in Africa, and they don't have a problem with it. This goes for every other food chain out there. This is the way it works. Kill or be killed. This system has kept the balance of life in check for thousands of years.

Modernly, thanks to globalization, we can get plants with high protein to supplement our diet, making it possible to survive without meat. But that doesn't mean that we have to throw this successful way of life out the window, just because a few pampered humans, who've never seen the harshness of nature, feel guilty about killing a poor little cow.

"

I like eating penguins and Baby Seals. So, yes Im a meatan.

" @pirate_republic said:

"

@Sick_J0ke said:

"@pirate_republic:

First off, just because fear was the only emotional response recorded from a cow doesn't make it  any better. Sadness is an emotion derived from fear, a psychologist will tell you that. So it's hard to directly measure sadness. 

Second, because something doesn't have the capacity for in-depth emotions makes it okay to kill them for food? Really?! Well then while we're at it I guess we should cook ourselves up some babies.... or even the mentally disabled! MMmmm delicious. 

Third, highest on the food chain? Yea we're so dangerous and badass that we need other people to kill the animal and prepare the meat for us. If you really think we're high on the food chain then do this... buy a goat, and try to kill it, let me know how that goes... Using the "we're the best, biggest, baddest people in the food chain" excuse is not a valid argument. Eating meat is a personal choice, not a necessity of our species. 

"

Hmmm... have you ever seen a national geographic nature documentary on, say, lions in Africa? They mercilessly kill, ripping cute little [insert prey here] like it's nothing. Do you think that's right or wrong? You mentioned that just because we're on the top of the food chain doesn't mean we have the right to kill... what about those lions? They're pretty much on the top of the food chain in Africa, and they don't have a problem with it. This goes for every other food chain out there. This is the way it works. Kill or be killed. This system has kept the balance of life in check for thousands of years.

Modernly, thanks to globalization, we can get plants with high protein to supplement our diet, making it possible to survive without meat. But that doesn't mean that we have to throw this successful way of life out the window, just because a few pampered humans, who've never seen the harshness of nature, feel guilty about killing a poor little cow.

"

Speaking of things being natural.  Lions spend most of their days doing nothing while their bodies try to digest the meat they've eaten.  Lions have enormous canine teeth for tearing through muscle.  Lions bodies are designed to eat that meat and that's why they eat it and they eat it whole.  Lions tend to kill and eat the young or the sick because they're the easiest to catch.  Lions don't try to eat hippos because a hippo because a hippo will kill it.  Hippos eat mostly vegetables.  Hippos only eat meat when they have to and when they do eat meat it's sometimes their own babies.  Human bodies are designed to eat plants.  You can tell by how our jaws work.  They can go side to side to grind up the plants.  Our teeth are not sharp enough nor strong enough to kill an animal with. That's why we had to start cooking it.  Our intestines are very long like a herbivores so that we can get as many of the nutrients out of our food, lions have shorter intestines.  Our earliest ancestros ate meat only when they had to.  During the winter when their were less plants.  You can look at the other three species of great apes; chimps, orangutans, and gorillas.  Gorillas are the strongest and have the sharpest canine teeth yet they are herbivores as are orangutans.  Chimps will eat meat when they have to but, again,  they will eat their own young.  Naturally people aren't designed to eat meat but we are capable of it.  We're also capable of smoking cigarettes.  I'm a vegetarian and I hate it when people tell me what to eat.  I don't tell people what to eat either.  But when people as ignorant as you start telling people what they're doing is wrong just because you're misinformed and pissy, that pisses me off.  So maybe you grow up and quit acting like you're smarter than everybody because you have the national geographic channel. "

"Its interesting that as Omnivores we are pretty much the only species that has such a hard fucking time coming to terms with what we eat.

I mean you don't see Wolves sitting around going "Fuck man I feel really bad about the morality of eating that Deer, I mean how do you think it felt to be that Deer dude?!"

Which funnily enough often Vegetarians seem to be the ones who value animals and their feelings, whereas the animals couldn't give a shit. I guess if you want to have issues about eating meat then feel free.

However I would take issue with the way that many of our foods are produced and packaged and the methods that are used in mass production of cheap meat. I would totally support a person who took issue with the poor treatment and cruelty to animals that takes place in the farming industry. 

Becoming a Vegetarian is not a constructive method of dealing with this problem and is more commonly a lifestyle chosen by namby pamby idiots who can afford to buy fresh foods on a regular basis and don't know the real meaning of sacrifice.   

These same people have no concept of what it is like to be financially forced to consume the string of cheaply produced overly processed food simply because there are no other options offered or available. 

The friends that I have had who are Vegetarians and the people I have met through them all swear that it is a feasible lifestyle to live as a vegetarian on the cheap, yet none of them lacked an education, none of them were pulling double shifts to make enough money for the kids that they never see. None of them were forced to prepare a meal in 30 minutes that could feed two kids before they had to go out to their second job to pay the rent for their broom cupboard flat that has a kitchen with a small cooker a microwave and 3 useable cupboards.

Touting the Vegetarian lifestyle as a viable option for the human species is short sighted and self involved. If you are lucky enough to have the option of an education and finances that allow you the freedom to make those choices then fine. But there is no moral high ground for you there. 

Becoming Vegetarian for health reasons rather than morality is also selfish. Fine so you are able to be vegetarian however you are doing nothing to help promote healthy lifestyles as an economically viable option for others. Rather than taking your Vegetables only diet, why not eat a healthy mix of quality locally produced meats from animals that are reared in good conditions and eggs from local free range farms, along side fresh produce from your local suppliers and dairy from Ethically sourced local sources?

Doing this would be a far healthier option and if every person who could afford this option did so it would strengthen the local economy, producing a healthier and subsequently cheaper supply of foods that would become more affordable for less wealthy families. This would increase the health and well being of the local workforce bringing in jobs and providing opportunities for poorer families to eat better. Thus allowing the children who on their mass produced chemical injected food minds are currently unable to make progress in school the opportunity to expand their education and break out of the cycle of poverty so many families are trapped in by the food industry's disgusting policy of profit over morality.      

In short Vegetarianism is useless selfish crap that self involved short minded people subscribe to as a "lifestyle choice" and disregard the rest of the world who don't have a choice at all. 

(This excludes people who cant eat meat for Medical reasons.)

:D

"

Uh... you can live without meat, or vegetarians wouldn't exist...

"@FiestaUnicorn said:

" @pirate_republic said:

"

@Sick_J0ke said:

"@pirate_republic:

First off, just because fear was the only emotional response recorded from a cow doesn't make it  any better. Sadness is an emotion derived from fear, a psychologist will tell you that. So it's hard to directly measure sadness. 

Second, because something doesn't have the capacity for in-depth emotions makes it okay to kill them for food? Really?! Well then while we're at it I guess we should cook ourselves up some babies.... or even the mentally disabled! MMmmm delicious. 

Third, highest on the food chain? Yea we're so dangerous and badass that we need other people to kill the animal and prepare the meat for us. If you really think we're high on the food chain then do this... buy a goat, and try to kill it, let me know how that goes... Using the "we're the best, biggest, baddest people in the food chain" excuse is not a valid argument. Eating meat is a personal choice, not a necessity of our species. 

"

Hmmm... have you ever seen a national geographic nature documentary on, say, lions in Africa? They mercilessly kill, ripping cute little [insert prey here] like it's nothing. Do you think that's right or wrong? You mentioned that just because we're on the top of the food chain doesn't mean we have the right to kill... what about those lions? They're pretty much on the top of the food chain in Africa, and they don't have a problem with it. This goes for every other food chain out there. This is the way it works. Kill or be killed. This system has kept the balance of life in check for thousands of years.

Modernly, thanks to globalization, we can get plants with high protein to supplement our diet, making it possible to survive without meat. But that doesn't mean that we have to throw this successful way of life out the window, just because a few pampered humans, who've never seen the harshness of nature, feel guilty about killing a poor little cow.

"

Speaking of things being natural.  Lions spend most of their days doing nothing while their bodies try to digest the meat they've eaten.  Lions have enormous canine teeth for tearing through muscle.  Lions bodies are designed to eat that meat and that's why they eat it and they eat it whole.  Lions tend to kill and eat the young or the sick because they're the easiest to catch.  Lions don't try to eat hippos because a hippo because a hippo will kill it.  Hippos eat mostly vegetables.  Hippos only eat meat when they have to and when they do eat meat it's sometimes their own babies.  Human bodies are designed to eat plants.  You can tell by how our jaws work.  They can go side to side to grind up the plants.  Our teeth are not sharp enough nor strong enough to kill an animal with. That's why we had to start cooking it.  Our intestines are very long like a herbivores so that we can get as many of the nutrients out of our food, lions have shorter intestines.  Our earliest ancestros ate meat only when they had to.  During the winter when their were less plants.  You can look at the other three species of great apes; chimps, orangutans, and gorillas.  Gorillas are the strongest and have the sharpest canine teeth yet they are herbivores as are orangutans.  Chimps will eat meat when they have to but, again,  they will eat their own young.  Naturally people aren't designed to eat meat but we are capable of it.  We're also capable of smoking cigarettes.  I'm a vegetarian and I hate it when people tell me what to eat.  I don't tell people what to eat either.  But when people as ignorant as you start telling people what they're doing is wrong just because you're misinformed and pissy, that pisses me off.  So maybe you grow up and quit acting like you're smarter than everybody because you have the national geographic channel. "

Actually @FiestaUnicorn you are wrong humans are this thing called an OMNIVORE. We are designed to eat meat much the same as a Dog can eat meat or a Pig or a Chimpanzee. Just thought I would correct that point :)

Oh and our "earliest" ancestors ate meat when they could get it not when they had to. in-fact they ate other food sources because they couldn't get meat, meat is an extremely effective source of energy but hard to come by thus the development of the Omnivore as a food group. It allows us to be versatile in our diets.

There are other facts you got wrong but thats just a couple I thought I might help you out on :)

"

" oh and if you yourself realize hate and stupidity in this thread the least you could do is not contribute to it by adding more hate and stupidity with your own posts. "

" @Manatassi said:

"Its interesting that as Omnivores we are pretty much the only species that has such a hard fucking time coming to terms with what we eat.

I mean you don't see Wolves sitting around going "Fuck man I feel really bad about the morality of eating that Deer, I mean how do you think it felt to be that Deer dude?!"

Which funnily enough often Vegetarians seem to be the ones who value animals and their feelings, whereas the animals couldn't give a shit. I guess if you want to have issues about eating meat then feel free.

However I would take issue with the way that many of our foods are produced and packaged and the methods that are used in mass production of cheap meat. I would totally support a person who took issue with the poor treatment and cruelty to animals that takes place in the farming industry. 

Becoming a Vegetarian is not a constructive method of dealing with this problem and is more commonly a lifestyle chosen by namby pamby idiots who can afford to buy fresh foods on a regular basis and don't know the real meaning of sacrifice.   

These same people have no concept of what it is like to be financially forced to consume the string of cheaply produced overly processed food simply because there are no other options offered or available. 

The friends that I have had who are Vegetarians and the people I have met through them all swear that it is a feasible lifestyle to live as a vegetarian on the cheap, yet none of them lacked an education, none of them were pulling double shifts to make enough money for the kids that they never see. None of them were forced to prepare a meal in 30 minutes that could feed two kids before they had to go out to their second job to pay the rent for their broom cupboard flat that has a kitchen with a small cooker a microwave and 3 useable cupboards.

Touting the Vegetarian lifestyle as a viable option for the human species is short sighted and self involved. If you are lucky enough to have the option of an education and finances that allow you the freedom to make those choices then fine. But there is no moral high ground for you there. 

Becoming Vegetarian for health reasons rather than morality is also selfish. Fine so you are able to be vegetarian however you are doing nothing to help promote healthy lifestyles as an economically viable option for others. Rather than taking your Vegetables only diet, why not eat a healthy mix of quality locally produced meats from animals that are reared in good conditions and eggs from local free range farms, along side fresh produce from your local suppliers and dairy from Ethically sourced local sources?

Doing this would be a far healthier option and if every person who could afford this option did so it would strengthen the local economy, producing a healthier and subsequently cheaper supply of foods that would become more affordable for less wealthy families. This would increase the health and well being of the local workforce bringing in jobs and providing opportunities for poorer families to eat better. Thus allowing the children who on their mass produced chemical injected food minds are currently unable to make progress in school the opportunity to expand their education and break out of the cycle of poverty so many families are trapped in by the food industry's disgusting policy of profit over morality.      

In short Vegetarianism is useless selfish crap that self involved short minded people subscribe to as a "lifestyle choice" and disregard the rest of the world who don't have a choice at all. 

(This excludes people who cant eat meat for Medical reasons.)

:D

"

O.K. your first argument is that you have to have money in order to live as a vegetarian.  I'm a vegetarian and I'm poor.  So your first argument is wrong.As for being a vegetarian being selfish because of their choice not to eat meat.  Wrong.  You have no idea the amount of food that is spent feeding the animals people eat.  It takes twelve pounds of grain in order to get one pound of meat.  I get most of my vegetables from the local farmer's market.  Couldn't people go their and get inexpensive vegetables that help the local community.  In short vegetarianism is selfish crap because I do it for my own health.  Than again I did research on the topic beforehand.  I guess me and you just don't have that much in common. "

"

@Sick_J0ke said:

Hmmm... have you ever seen a national geographic nature documentary on, say, lions in Africa? They mercilessly kill, ripping cute little [insert prey here] like it's nothing. Do you think that's right or wrong? You mentioned that just because we're on the top of the food chain doesn't mean we have the right to kill... what about those lions? They're pretty much on the top of the food chain in Africa, and they don't have a problem with it. This goes for every other food chain out there. This is the way it works. Kill or be killed. This system has kept the balance of life in check for thousands of years.

"

It would appear that you either didn't read what I posted properly or were being Ironic?

My first argument was not that you need money to live as a vegetarian. My second argument however was that you need an adequate financial basis to be able to keep fresh produce stocked that you need the time that is not available to many people and that you need the skills and education on the subject that are also not available to people.

You appear to be typing on a Games forum, YOU ARE NOT POOR. If you were poor you would not be using a computer to talk on a forum about being a vegetarian, you do not apparently know what the meaning of the word POOR is. Which would reinforce my case in point.

I would hazard a guess that you have never had to be a single parent driving 40 miles to get to your job working 10 hour 12 hour shifts and living on minimum wage trying to support 2 children with no education?

This is the reality of life. These are the people who are poor.

I have spent the last 7 years of my life working with people in these situations. I would count that as research.

I am going to put your random spouting of poorly understood arguments down to your only being, at a guess 17 - 19? and lets leave it at that.

If that guess is wrong I'm sorry but its not obvious.

"

Becoming Vegetarian for health reasons rather than morality is also selfish. Fine so you are able to be vegetarian however you are doing nothing to help promote healthy lifestyles as an economically viable option for others. Rather than taking your Vegetables only diet, why not eat a healthy mix of quality locally produced meats from animals that are reared in good conditions and eggs from local free range farms, along side fresh produce from your local suppliers and dairy from Ethically sourced local sources?

I've never understood why people give a fuck about what other people do.Why can't people just live their own life instead of worrying if someone is a vegetarian or a omnivore. Does it really matter?  

" @bennyboy: Ethics? You're saying that if all animals had ethics, then no meat would be consumed anywhere in the food chain?

@bennyboy said:

"@pirate_republic said:

" @bennyboy: Ethics? You're saying that if all animals had ethics, then no meat would be consumed anywhere in the food chain?

No.  If all animals had ethics, then all animals would have to consciously change their levels of meat consumption to adapt to current conditions.  Now you're just drawing up a strawman arguement"

But that's just it, you've proven what I said earlier: that if you want to cut back on eating meat, go for it, but it's silly to boycott it altogether. Anyways, refer to my above post.

im all up for letting them be but some one that doesnt grab a quarter pounder out your hand after dangling it in there face just isnt normal

" A lack of action on the part of people who have the means and education to take action is the issue I have with Vegetarians."