Immigration in the USA

So I've been following the whole Arizona immigration thing, and the current attempts in Senate to get moving on immigration reform. Shout out your thoughts on the whole US immigration situation. 
 
Personally I think the Arizona law is terrible. The main problem that I see with it is a lack of criteria for checking someones status. I know the law says they can't profile based on race...but what exactly are they going to pick up on then? Its simply too vague. The simpler solution would be to require that officers check 100% of peoples immigration status when they interact with them.  
 
Then the who thing in Senate right now...not 1 republican will sign on? Why exactly? Republicans seem like they are always screaming about immigration..so why not participate in fixing it? I really think if they just participated, they'd get something they wanted...Obama and the Dems seem like they REALLY want to show how bi they are. Especially Lindsey Gram. It sure seems like hes throwing a hissy fit because his bill got bumped out of the way. I'm so tired of the current republican strategy..nonononono. I'm assuming they're waiting until they are in power (either in one of the two houses or the oval) so they can claim credit for it?
 
BTW..I think its obvious, but please refrain from making racist comments.

I don't know what's going on. What's going on? I don't think I care honestly.

I live in arizona, I support this law 100% .

The law is a terrible idea. Illegal immigration is definitely a problem, but Arizona's "solution" is about as wrong as you can get.

I do think we need to do something about the massive influx of illegals. What they do is simply not fair to the hundreds of thousands of people waiting in line to come, work, and live in this country using the proper channels. They're not special, if they want to come here to make money they should wait in line like everybody else. I can't cut in line at the grocery store just because I live on the same block.
 
Still, punishing the person in search of a better life doesn't seem right. I say we go after the employers who hire them. Like with massive fines and jail time. It's common sense that if there wasn't any work and demand for the illegals then they wouldn't come here in the numbers we've been seeing.

Personally I am for immigration 100%, legally of course.  In the specific case of Arizona's recent law on immigration it is clearly a state issue, though it may be a national problem.  Arizona, and only Arizona knows what problems they are facing on a daily basis.  If they want to enforce a law, no other state has no real say in how that law is enacted, unless of course it is infringing upon another state's laws.  
 
There needs to be a stronger presence along the Mexican-United States border, and the Canadian border as well.  I'm not saying build a giant wall around the United States, but something really needs to be done so that people who are willing to go through the necessary procedures to become a legal citizen are allowed to do so.     

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

I sense this thread will end in a very bad place, so I will attempt to lighten the mood. 
 

" I do think we need to do something about the massive influx of illegals. What they do is simply not fair to the hundreds of thousands of people waiting in line to come, work, and live in this country using the proper channels. They're not special, if they want to come here to make money they should wait in line like everybody else. I can't cut in line at the grocery store just because I live on the same block. Still, punishing the person in search of a better life doesn't seem right. I say we go after the employers who hire them. Like with massive fines and jail time. It's common sense that if there wasn't any work and demand for the illegals then they wouldn't come here in the numbers we've been seeing. "

I cant believe when I first read the title for this thread the first thing I thought of was "Party in the USA". I am a terrible person.

" Personally I am for immigration 100%, legally of course.  In the specific case of Arizona's recent law on immigration it is clearly a state issue, though it may be a national problem.  Arizona, and only Arizona knows what problems they are facing on a daily basis.  If they want to enforce a law, no other state has no real say in how that law is enacted, unless of course it is infringing upon another state's laws.  
 
There needs to be a stronger presence along the Mexican-United States border, and the Canadian border as well.  I'm not saying build a giant wall around the United States, but something really needs to be done so that people who are willing to go through the necessary procedures to become a legal citizen are allowed to do so.
 

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

I sense this topic will lead to a very bad place so I will attempt to lighten the mood early on. 
 

"

" I live in arizona, I support this law 100% . "

"But something needs to be done fairly soon so that America can allow people willing to come here legally are allowed to do so. "

This law is stupid. I still don't understand how they are going to make this work with the 4th amendment. In the words of Jon Stewart: It's a loophole so big, you could drive a truck full of immigrants through it.  
 
It's also asking too much of the legal immigrants. It requires us to carry our documents on us at all time, ready to be presented when asked. My I-20 and Passport are too valuable to be with me everywhere I go. If I lose either of those, I'd have to immediately go back to my country. That is going to require thousands of dollars on travel and at least 3-4 weeks of paperwork. I'm so glad I didn't take that offer from ASU.

Immigration problems won't be solved going after people. They will be solved when laws are made that affect corporations bottom line.

" This law is stupid. I still don't understand how they are going to make this work with the 4th amendment. In the words of Jon Stewart: It's a loophole so big, you could drive a truck full of immigrants through it.   It's also asking too much of the legal immigrants. It requires us to carry our documents on us at all time, ready to be presented when asked. My I-20 and Passport are too valuable to be with me everywhere I go. If I lose either of those, I'd have to immediately go back to my country and spend at least 3-4 weeks getting a new one. I'm so glad I didn't take that offer from ASU. "

I get pretty frustrated with the discussion on this issue.  Most of the people who are supporting it don't realize that illegal immigrants usually pay much more in taxes than your legal citizen.  If the illegal immigrant is working for a legitimate business owner they are getting these taxes withheld from their paycheck as we all do, but they are unable to file for a return as most of us can do.  Plus they are all paying the same sales taxes and such as the rest of us.  What we need to do is crack down on employers who are paying these people under the table.  The really odd part about this is a lot of illegal immigrants that are being paid under the table in cash still file their taxes (though they may claim to make less than they actually do) for fear of being deported and end up having to pay a substantial amount in taxes all at once because their money has not been withheld throughout the year.  I've met several illegal aliens up here in Washington from Canada, Asia and Europe who pay waaaaay more in taxes than I do at a similar salary because they know as long as they do they won't be deported.  I feel like that's the price they pay for not coming here legally (or extending their stay here legally as is the case with most of the people up here).  I've called Arizona home for a brief time and understand the frustration, but passing a law that can easily be used to discriminate is not the way to resolve this issue.  We need to crack down on the businesses that are allowing illegal immigration to be a viable way to emigrate from Mexico first.

" @Br3adfan said:

"But something needs to be done fairly soon so that America can allow people willing to come here legally are allowed to do so. "

 
What are you talking about? Do you know how many varieties and kinds of entry visas are available to enter the US? There's a visa for almost every possible reason and job contingency.
 
Look here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1271.html  And that's just temporary entry. If someone wants to "come here legally" there are more than enough ways. The fact is that illegal immigrants just don't want to wait, don't want to get in line, but still want to be treated just like everyone else with additional favors for them.  That's like shoplifter taking a product back to the store when it breaks and demanding warranty service but think the store should ignore the fact they stole it to begin with. "

Do you know how long it takes to get a green card or visa to stay in the US for a LONG period of time. It takes fucking forever. I should know, I lived there for 5 years on a greencard and then moved back. It took us 4 years to get one (my mums a nurse so we got one faster) and that was considered fast.

Cops should profile on English skills, as far as sniffing out illegals.
 
I'd like to see corporations get a hefty fine for hiring illegals, but get tax breaks if they have went x number of years without hiring an illegal and of course making visas/greencards easier; especially for those from 1st world countries and with graduates.

" @CRAzYKiLL3R93 said:

Do you know how long it takes to get a green card or visa to stay in the US for a LONG period of time. It takes fucking forever. I should know, I lived there for 5 years on a greencard and then moved back. It took us 4 years to get one (my mums a nurse so we got one faster) and that was considered fast.

Yes I do know, because I've been through several stages and categories of immigration.   Why does that make any difference? If you want to work in the US you can get visa permission to live and work in the country temporarily in under six months. After that it's up to you and your employer if you want to stay. If both sides want the same thing then it's just paperwork and patience. "

" @Killjoi said:

" This law is stupid. I still don't understand how they are going to make this work with the 4th amendment. In the words of Jon Stewart: It's a loophole so big, you could drive a truck full of immigrants through it.   It's also asking too much of the legal immigrants. It requires us to carry our documents on us at all time, ready to be presented when asked. My I-20 and Passport are too valuable to be with me everywhere I go. If I lose either of those, I'd have to immediately go back to my country and spend at least 3-4 weeks getting a new one. I'm so glad I didn't take that offer from ASU. "

It doesn't require anything like that.  If you are pulled over for violating a law (which means you fucked up already) then you are required to produce your driving license. if you have your license then the police don't do anything else. The police only run an immigration check if you can't show a valid license which means you've fucked up twice even if you are here legally and that makes you an idiot no matter where you came from.  And technically all non-citizens are required to carry proof of their legality and always have been. And even if you do fuck up by breaking the law and not having your license you can still present proof of your legality to the police desk if by some mistake you get flagged. It's not as if they are going to throw you in a van and kick you out over the border within five minutes. "

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY

21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c). 

E. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP
21 ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE
22 SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND
23 THIS SECTION.    

"The law is a terrible idea. Illegal immigration is definitely a problem, but Arizona's "solution" is about as wrong as you can get. "

"and of course making visas/greencards easier; especially for those from 1st world countries and with graduates. "

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY

21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c). 

I don't have to commit a crime for the state to ask for proof of my immigration status. "Reasonable suspicion" could  be interpreted as racial profiling, even though the government has made multiple attempt to deny such a thing. "

"If you are illegal don't put yourself in a position to be suspicious "

" @Killjoi said:

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY

21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c). 

I don't have to commit a crime for the state to ask for proof of my immigration status. "Reasonable suspicion" could  be interpreted as racial profiling, even though the government has made multiple attempt to deny such a thing. "

 Yes you do.  That's what "lawful contact" meant, but the furore over the constant debate about the legal terminology forced the bill to be changed. What you have there is the old bill. The one that was signed now says "stop, detain or arrest."  If you are illegal don't put yourself in a position to be suspicious or breaking the law and you have no problem. Works for me. "

 don't put yourself in a position to be suspicious

I have said it for years, the border should resemble Normandy beach including the pill box defenses. If you make it pass, its ok to stay.

"I have said it for years, the border should resemble Normandy beach including the pill box defenses. If you make it pass, its ok to stay. "

I wonder if anyone's actually taken the immigration test; we had to take it in... 11th US history I believe? shit was hard (we didn't get graded, but most of us failed)
 
so...

" This law is stupid. I still don't understand how they are going to make this work with the 4th amendment. In the words of Jon Stewart: It's a loophole so big, you could drive a truck full of immigrants through it.   It's also asking too much of the legal immigrants. It requires us to carry our documents on us at all time, ready to be presented when asked. My I-20 and Passport are too valuable to be with me everywhere I go. If I lose either of those, I'd have to immediately go back to my country. That is going to require thousands of dollars on travel and at least 3-4 weeks of paperwork. I'm so glad I didn't take that offer from ASU. "

While I think that Arizona's solution probably isn't the most effective, I do support it. What I have issue with is people from New York and Washington calling out against it, and saying how aweful it is. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. You don't live in areas affected by illegal immigration, how the fuck would you know how bad the problem is? On a side issue, I actually support racial profiling.

" @Killjoi: its the law to always have proof of id on you. and yes i have gotten a ticket for not having any id on me. i simply brought it in to court and it was dismissed but the point is, im a caucasion male, happened to be outside to late and was stopped for looking "suspicious" and all i was doing was standing outside jack in the box at 1am with a friend after eating our burgers. "

" @Killjoi said:

" This law is stupid. I still don't understand how they are going to make this work with the 4th amendment. In the words of Jon Stewart: It's a loophole so big, you could drive a truck full of immigrants through it.   It's also asking too much of the legal immigrants. It requires us to carry our documents on us at all time, ready to be presented when asked. My I-20 and Passport are too valuable to be with me everywhere I go. If I lose either of those, I'd have to immediately go back to my country. That is going to require thousands of dollars on travel and at least 3-4 weeks of paperwork. I'm so glad I didn't take that offer from ASU. "

thats how it works in every other country. "

" @Bionicicide said:

"and of course making visas/greencards easier; especially for those from 1st world countries and with graduates. "

Yeah, god forbid we let poor people into the United States. "

" @Killjoi:  oh you lie! i was born in germany. i recently went back with my family on a trip. i was stopped nearly every single day there and asked to see my passport! dont feed me these stupid lines of america is racist. if they just want to work and they love america so bad why do they do things like this?  it can go both ways. i live in a very very hispanic community. i hear all the racist things they say about us "gringos" ive been called racist nearly every day here because i support the bill.  i have exactly 1 white friend and everyone else i hang out with is hispanic. im taking spanish lessons right now. im jewish. im far from racist but automatically if i support this im racist. but go ahead and call me gringo and tear down american flags cuz america is so bad. THEN GET OUT! "

" No, it doesn't. Not every country is mandating laws that promote racial profiling. The only other country in the world that faces a similar number of illegal immigrants is India and they don't require immigrants to produce proof of their legal status without unlawful behavior.  " 

" @Impossibilium said:

" @CRAzYKiLL3R93 said:

Do you know how long it takes to get a green card or visa to stay in the US for a LONG period of time. It takes fucking forever. I should know, I lived there for 5 years on a greencard and then moved back. It took us 4 years to get one (my mums a nurse so we got one faster) and that was considered fast.

Yes I do know, because I've been through several stages and categories of immigration.   Why does that make any difference? If you want to work in the US you can get visa permission to live and work in the country temporarily in under six months. After that it's up to you and your employer if you want to stay. If both sides want the same thing then it's just paperwork and patience. "

Listen, we cant stop the problem by getting the illegal immigrants to change their views. These are extremely desperate people. But again they put caps on the amount of immigrants. And since a clear majority of immigrants coming into the US are mexican, its a lot harder for them to get the papers.  Better enforcement and protection will solve the problem. Clamp down on businesses who hire illegal workers and build better border defenses. Now again because of party politics none of this will happen. Now seems an odd time to clamp down on illegal immigration though. Immigration is WAY down due to the recession.   "

If nobody would hire illegals, then the illegals would know that in the US there would be 0 work for them.
The chances of them going through all that trouble for NO work are slim. Thus indeed start working on the public mindset and let them know ( and feel ) how wrong it is to hire illigals.

" @Killjoi: "No, it doesn't. Not every country is mandating laws that promote racial profiling. The only other country in the world that faces a similar number of illegal immigrants is India and they don't require immigrants to produce proof of their legal status without unlawful behavior. "  sure sounds like youre accusing america of being racist. try going somewhere else without carrying your passport on you. see what happens there. will they send you back home with a mean and a good nights sleep? "

Who has to worry about some stupid Arizona law when you have a Gringo Mask? 
 

" While I think that Arizona's solution probably isn't the most effective, I do support it. What I have issue with is people from New York and Washington calling out against it, and saying how aweful it is. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. You don't live in areas affected by illegal immigration, how the fuck would you know how bad the problem is? On a side issue, I actually support racial profiling. "

The only reason I don't support the law is because it will inevitably lead to accepted racial profiling by police officers. 
 
I am an immigrant myself.  I had to wait in line, get shots and physicals, sign papers, and wait in more lines, but I got my cards and citizenship and I did it legally.  If I can do it, so can they.  Something needs to happen with immigration law, but this isn't it.