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#1 Edited by development (2637 posts) -

Horrible 60-character-limit caused that title. Sorry.

Russian-backed Ukrainian separatists (most likely) just shot down a plane and killed 295 civilians.

It has been (unofficially) confirmed:

Russian separatist leader of the Donetsk People's Republic, Igor "Strelkov" Girkin, posted this to Facebook shortly after Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was recognized as having crashed over Ukraine:

To my understanding, it translates to:

Just shot down an AN-26 plane on Toreza area, crashed around the the Progress mine.

We warned them about flying in our sky.

And here's a video confirming another [plane] falling.

The [plane] fell past the territory, living sector was not hit.

Civilians were not hurt.

And there's also information about a second plane being shot down, looks to be a SU.

The wreckage of that same plane crash has the remnants of the exact Malaysian flight, as well as other evidence, such as the ticket.

Live coverage of the wreckage [NSFL; you will see dead people]: http://lifenews.ru/watch-live

Better coverage of the entire event: http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2ayjwz/malaysian_plane_crashes_over_the_ukraine/

#2 Posted by Corevi (4953 posts) -

Russia is fucked up, but I'm not entirely sure what anyone can do about it.

#3 Posted by playastation (227 posts) -

Maybe change the headline to not say that the Russian's did it?

#4 Posted by lanerobertlane (152 posts) -

Yeah, considering no government has confirmed it was shot down, let alone who by, you should probably change the misleading forum title.

#5 Posted by CABBAGES (534 posts) -

Oh I wonder if this could start some kind of war that America could get involved in.

#7 Edited by development (2637 posts) -

@playastation: I literally cannot think of a title that will fit the stupid 60-character limit. "Ukrainian" is longer than "Russian." So I can't say "Ukrainian separatists." And labeling them as "Ukrainian" would also be wrong. They fight "for Russia."

edit: okay, thought of a solution. "Separatist." Although now I have to figure out why my images disappeared.

edit2: okay, the mods did me one better.

#8 Posted by Chaser324 (6744 posts) -

Yeah. Edited the title to just generally say what is known to have happened - a passenger jet is down. As far as I know, nothing is official with regards to if it was shot down or who is responsible.

Moderator
#9 Edited by development (2637 posts) -

@lanerobertlane: No government has confirmed it, but if you look at my post it really couldn't be much else. There's a wreckage. We know what plane it is. Separatist leader boasts about destroying a "transport" soon after. Locals record wreckage, and... it's the same plane, complete with identical outside panels and passenger tickets. It's pretty clear.

#10 Posted by flasaltine (1708 posts) -

Is this Alpha Protocol?

#11 Edited by Kidavenger (3629 posts) -

Why would a Kuala Lumpur to Bali flight be anywhere near Ukraine? Possible hijacking?

#12 Posted by Itwongo (1245 posts) -

What a fucking mess. What a nightmare

#13 Posted by development (2637 posts) -

Why would a Kuala Lumpur to Bali flight be anywhere near Ukraine? Possible hijacking?

Most likely their connecting-flight ticket after they got to Kuala Lumpur.

#14 Posted by Devil240Z (3438 posts) -

I wonder what our Ukrainian users thoughts are on this.

#15 Edited by EuanDewar (5098 posts) -

This whole situation is unbelievable. The implications it could possibly have if the Ukrainians shot it down, the even crazier implications it could have if it was the Russians, the fact that this comes just a few months after the MH370 incident and like a million other things.

And then of course there's the fact that 295 civilians are dead now, just like that. Fucking hell.

#16 Posted by Shindig (688 posts) -

If this happened 30 years ago we'd all be shitting bricks.

Time for a ceasefire.

#17 Posted by BisonHero (7054 posts) -

It would like to agree with the sentiment that the 60-character threat title limit is abysmal. Sometimes a topic is complex enough that an extra 20 or 30 characters in the thread title would make a world of difference. And damn near everybody has widescreen resolutions these days anyway, so I don't see the issue with longer thread titles.

I miss the Whiskey Media Radio Show, when I could've called in and just asked Dave why that sort of limitation exists.

#18 Edited by flasaltine (1708 posts) -
#19 Edited by sub_o (913 posts) -

I hope that my Malaysian friends are unaffected, I'm trying to contact them right now and it's like 3 AM over there. I lived in Malaysia for more than 4 years.

Condolences to those who are affected.

I'm very confused and sad about this right now.

And please refrain from making jokes, at least for now.

Online
#20 Edited by development (2637 posts) -

@euandewar: Well, I honestly don't know: do separatists of a country consider themselves to be of that same country? They support Russia, and are backed by Russia. I guess they are Ukrainian, though, yes.

#21 Posted by Shindig (688 posts) -

Yeah, 1983 was terrifying. That, Able Archer, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83

#22 Posted by Kidavenger (3629 posts) -

@kidavenger said:

Why would a Kuala Lumpur to Bali flight be anywhere near Ukraine? Possible hijacking?

Most likely their connecting-flight ticket after they got to Kuala Lumpur.

They were flying from Kuala Lumpur to Bali, it's the completely wrong direction.

#23 Edited by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@lanerobertlane: No government has confirmed it, but if you look at my post it really couldn't be much else. There's a wreckage. We know what plane it is. Separatist leader boasts about destroying a "transport" soon after. Locals record wreckage, and... it's the same plane, complete with identical outside panels and passenger tickets. It's pretty clear.

But is there evidence that the plane was shot down? It could be the Separatist leader using the crash as an opportunity to boast about his movement's power.

#24 Posted by flasaltine (1708 posts) -

@development said:

@kidavenger said:

Why would a Kuala Lumpur to Bali flight be anywhere near Ukraine? Possible hijacking?

Most likely their connecting-flight ticket after they got to Kuala Lumpur.

They were flying from Kuala Lumpur to Bali, it's the completely wrong direction.

They were flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

#25 Edited by development (2637 posts) -
#26 Posted by EuanDewar (5098 posts) -

@euandewar: Well, I honestly don't know: do separatists of a country consider themselves to be of that same country? They support Russia, and are backed by Russia. I guess they are Ukrainian, though, yes.

I don't know either and I don't think anyone here can really answer that. I'm just using the simplest terms.

#27 Edited by development (2637 posts) -

@flacracker said:

@kidavenger said:

@development said:

@kidavenger said:

Why would a Kuala Lumpur to Bali flight be anywhere near Ukraine? Possible hijacking?

Most likely their connecting-flight ticket after they got to Kuala Lumpur.

They were flying from Kuala Lumpur to Bali, it's the completely wrong direction.

They were flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

Yeah. You can look up the flight path of the flight and it very clearly stops right above Ukraine, coming from Amsterdam. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

@video_game_king said:

@development said:

@lanerobertlane: No government has confirmed it, but if you look at my post it really couldn't be much else. There's a wreckage. We know what plane it is. Separatist leader boasts about destroying a "transport" soon after. Locals record wreckage, and... it's the same plane, complete with identical outside panels and passenger tickets. It's pretty clear.

But is there evidence that the plane was shot down? It could be the Separatist leader using the crash as an opportunity to boast about his movement's power.

I didn't think of that, but the way he worded it: "we warned them," makes me think he's legit.

#28 Posted by GiantLizardKing (563 posts) -

Such sad news. I hope the nations involved don't over react and cause even more needless bloodshed. I wonder how these guys got that kind of weaponry?

#29 Edited by Virtualpolecat (64 posts) -
#30 Posted by GiantLizardKing (563 posts) -

@virtualpolecat That was my initial thought. Man, as bad as tensions in that part of the world already are the last thing we need is the entire world pissed at Russia over what they consider to be some responsibility for this.

#31 Posted by Ischar25 (29 posts) -

The bottom picture in the first post has a sentence in Dutch which reads: were this plane to vanish: this is what it looks like. It was meant as a joke.

I am Dutch and this is entire situation is terrible.

#32 Posted by Nictel (2440 posts) -

@ischar25 said:

The bottom picture in the first post has a sentence in Dutch which reads: were this plane to vanish: this is what it looks like. It was meant as a joke.

I am Dutch and this is entire situation is terrible.

Dutch here too. Pure tragedy. The FB post especially is heartbreaking.

#33 Edited by development (2637 posts) -

@giantlizardking said:

Such sad news. I hope the nations involved don't over react and cause even more needless bloodshed. I wonder how these guys got that kind of weaponry?

They recently deleted this tweet. Nothing is confirmed, but that's the twitter account of the same Donetsk People's Republic. Apparently other tweets were saying they "captured" and repaired the BUK stations (the missile tank in the picture).

#34 Edited by Nictel (2440 posts) -

@development: They were supposedly at a military airbase that they conquered. Still sources say that civilian airplanes have an unique transponder signal, as in it is a humongous fuck up to take it down by accident.

It feels like most news channels have turned in to North Korea mode and are just spouting the craziest theories. Now that the black boxes are in Pro-Russian separatist hands I fear that the truth may never come out.

#35 Edited by development (2637 posts) -

@nictel: Well that exact mistake has been made before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

According to the Iranian government, Vincennes negligently shot down the civilian aircraft: the airliner was making IFF squawks in Mode III (not Mode II used by Iranian military planes), a signal that identified it as a civilian craft, and operators of Vincennes mistook for Mode II.[4]

According to the United States Government, the crew incorrectly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter (a plane made in the United States and operated at that time by only two forces worldwide, the United States Navy and the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force).

#36 Posted by Nictel (2440 posts) -

@development: Ok if they can mistake an Airbus for a F14 then I guess mistaking a Boeing 777 for an AN-26 is also very possible.

#37 Edited by development (2637 posts) -

@nictel: Yeah. I mean, I don't look at planes all day for a living, but these look similar enough to me:

Keep in mind the plane was at 33,000 feet. Probably hard to get a super precise visual read on it.

#38 Edited by MariachiMacabre (7099 posts) -

@development said:

@nictel: Yeah. I mean, I don't look at planes all day for a living, but these look similar enough to me:

Keep in mind the plane was at 33,000 feet. Probably hard to get a super precise visual read on it.

My only issue with that idea is that the top plane would sound very, very different from the bottom plane. The engines are completely different. Not to mention that the civilian plane would have a completely different transponder signal from any sort of military vehicle.

I'm concerned this was an inexperienced Russian Separatist (only due to the facebook posts in the OP) and that this will only escalate things even more, pulling the US and EU in further. Not to mention the Malaysia side, which could end up getting China involved, against Russia if anything, due to their close ties.

This Ukraine/Russia situation has been a powder keg waiting to explode for a while unfortunately and I'm concerned this might be what does it.

#39 Edited by GideonAmos (199 posts) -

Such a terrible thing to happen. Thoughts and prayers to those affected. Feels extra weird for me since Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur is the flight route I very often take when I'm visiting my family in Indonesia. And to think that my sister and her family took a similar flight (albeit with different airline but very similar route) just a few days ago.

#40 Edited by dr_mantas (2057 posts) -

That was a great summary of what happened.

And now that a Russian special forces backed group of separatist fuckwads has shot down a civilian airplane, with 295 people on board, maybe something can be done?

Who am I kidding. Russia will deny all involvment, they already have the blackbox. They will delete, change and release data selectively. I fucking hate what they do, self centered pricks.

I'm sorry for the swearing but this makes me unbelievably mad. Think if Iran shot down a plane over Israel. There would be war.

But they will look with disbelief in their eyes, and lie through their teeth.

#41 Posted by development (2637 posts) -
#42 Posted by Shindig (688 posts) -

Israeli ground offensive. When it rains, it pours.

#43 Posted by Nictel (2440 posts) -

#44 Posted by Bremaine (61 posts) -

Heard about it earlier today, pretty messed up. I don't know the whole deal of mess that's going on over there at the moment, but this clearly doesn't help.

#45 Posted by I_Stay_Puft (3815 posts) -

Read some accounts from civilians and reporters there they basiclly mentioned dead passengers falling with the depris most still intact but just badly broken and bruised. A terrible, horrible event today.

#46 Posted by freakin9 (1171 posts) -

There's so much that boggles the mind at the stupidity all around this. The fact it's a Malaysian plane just like the one that flew to Australia to drown is like only a minor part of the story, somehow.

Then we have the fact that a passenger plane is flying over a part of the world that has already shot down a few planes/helicopters already.

It's a tragedy, but also a shit show.

#47 Edited by EuanDewar (5098 posts) -

Nationalities of the (verified) aboard the plane. To repeat what Johnny Chiodini said on Twitter: "Three infants aboard that Malaysian airlines flight. Three people died as a result of a conflict they weren’t even capable of knowing about."

#48 Posted by sub_o (913 posts) -

Nationalities of the (verified) aboard the plane. To repeat what Johnny Chiodini said on Twitter: "Three infants aboard that Malaysian airlines flight. Three people died as a result of a conflict they weren’t even capable of knowing about."

45 Malaysians and 12 Indonesians.

They are probably on the way back to their countries to celebrate Eid al Fitr.

This is so fucking sad.

Online
#49 Edited by TruthTellah (9473 posts) -

@sub_o said:

@euandewar said:

Nationalities of the (verified) aboard the plane. To repeat what Johnny Chiodini said on Twitter: "Three infants aboard that Malaysian airlines flight. Three people died as a result of a conflict they weren’t even capable of knowing about."

45 Malaysians and 12 Indonesians.

They are probably on the way back to their countries to celebrate Eid al Fitr.

This is so fucking sad.

108 of the passengers were also top AIDS researchers on their way to the large International AIDS Conference hosted in Australia. That includes Joep Lange, one of the prominent leaders of global HIV/AIDS research and former president of the International AIDS Society.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/delegates-to-melbourne-aids-summit-on-doomed-flight-mh17/story-e6frg6nf-1226993197572?nk=fc0f1baadac2d7252ea69fdb230f2b1f

Activist and journalist Sean Strub, who runs the New York based POZ magazine, said the conference was shaken by the tragedy and by Mr Lange’s death.

“It’s going to be a very sombre week,’’ he said. “The struggle with the epidemic is bigger than any one individual but the collective loss of so many important people is one that is emotional.”

#50 Posted by GaspoweR (3515 posts) -

@sub_o said:

@euandewar said:

Nationalities of the (verified) aboard the plane. To repeat what Johnny Chiodini said on Twitter: "Three infants aboard that Malaysian airlines flight. Three people died as a result of a conflict they weren’t even capable of knowing about."

45 Malaysians and 12 Indonesians.

They are probably on the way back to their countries to celebrate Eid al Fitr.

This is so fucking sad.

108 of the passengers were also top AIDS researchers on their way to the large International AIDS Conference hosted in Australia. That includes Joep Lange, one of the prominent leaders of global HIV/AIDS research and former president of the International AIDS Society.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/delegates-to-melbourne-aids-summit-on-doomed-flight-mh17/story-e6frg6nf-1226993197572?nk=fc0f1baadac2d7252ea69fdb230f2b1f

Activist and journalist Sean Strub, who runs the New York based POZ magazine, said the conference was shaken by the tragedy and by Mr Lange’s death.

“It’s going to be a very sombre week,’’ he said. “The struggle with the epidemic is bigger than any one individual but the collective loss of so many important people is one that is emotional.”

Man, hearing more news about it today just makes it more and more horrible. Plus the fact that they were deflecting blame by saying that they warned not to fly over their territory?

This is not going to end well at all.