Marvel's Daredevil Discussion Thread [Possible Spoilers]

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deactivated-5f8907c9ada33

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Marvel's Daredevil

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I've been eagerly awaiting Marvel's Daredevil ever since I heard about the cast and crew involved. Netflix has released all the episodes as per their usual fashion. I'm only on episode 5 so far, but from what I've seen -- and assuming this continues -- this is easily the best thing Marvel's ever produced.

It's dark and gritty in the right ways, high production quality, great writing and acting and there have been a ton of shots already that really work well with the show. The one that was the most memorable so far was how they shot the last five minutes of the episode 2.

Is anyone else watching this!?

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MEATBALL

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#2  Edited By MEATBALL

I finished watching it tonight, it was just fucking perfect. Everything I had hoped for.

Really loved D'Onofrio's take on Fisk, I found his manner at once captivating and unsettling, and I loved the way the majority of his time on screen was in more humanising situations. I really appreciated that D'Onofrio's Fisk wasn't the sort of out-and-out charming man he's often portrayed as, that his delivery was more dry, disturbed and lacking in certain cues.

Charlie Cox was fucking great as Matt Murdock. Hell, basically everyone was perfectly cast, their choice for Ben Urich worked really well.

The action is great and I really enjoyed the way they demonstrated Matt using his powers during combat. And yeah, that Hallway scene at the end of episode 2 (there are a few inspired scenes like that throughout the season) was fantastic.

Dark and gritty, it was everything I've come to love about that core conflict between Kingpin and Daredevil over Hell's Kitchen.

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turboman

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I watched the first episode last night, and it's definitely miles ahead of Gotham and Agents of Shield. It's fine. I really hate the comic relief best friend. I might like it more when I see more.

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redyoshi

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I was wary of this when I heard it was going to be a series, as Arrow was recommended to me and I really didn't end up liking that, but once Vincent D'Onofrio was announced as Wilson Fisk I decided to give it a shot. I thought he was a fascinating actor to watch in Law & Order: Criminal Intent and I love his performance in this show as well. He comes across as dangerous and imposing without being a sneering villain, and sympathetic without being too soft.

That scene in episode 2 also stuck out to me. I loved the way it was shot, and it was nice seeing people actually getting gassed in an intense fight, but I'm wondering if I'm alone in thinking that the fight scenes throughout the show tend to run a little longer than they perhaps should. It's a lot of punching, and grabbing, and mid-air flips to kick someone, and the whole time I'm just wondering if maybe a blind guy wouldn't be better off with a more efficient fighting style.

Stick is a badass though.

@turboman: The wimpy best friend is something I have little patience for as well, but he gets better as the show goes on.

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Deranged

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I'm on episode 10. Currently the best superhero show, or product, I've seen yet. No stupid romantic subplots holding it down, fantastic action, evolving character and performances. GIVE ME MORE!

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theacidskull

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Easily one of the best Superhero TV shows to date. Hold on, scratch that, it's THE BEST superhero show ever put on scene. It's absolutely perfect.

The acting, writing, and the cinematography(especially) is breathtaking.

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logan528

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#7  Edited By logan528

I've only gotten up to Episode 3 but so far it a been really fantastic. The casting choices have all been great, especially Cox who just effortlessly falls into role of both Murdock and DD.

It will be interesting to see what happens with a second seasson since Goddard is gonna be pretty busy for a while with Sinister Six and the Spidey reboot and the show definitely has his mark all over it.

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andrew2696

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#8  Edited By andrew2696

I really think it was great. Something about Charlie Cox really makes you like Matt Murdock and the show just looks great all around. Kind of wish we got more of the suit but I understand this is basically the early history of Daredevil. And the long fight at the end of episode 2 was amazing.

Anyone get excited hearing Madame Gao hint about her home country? And apparently the stamp on her drugs is another reference.

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conmulligan

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@theacidskull said:

Easily one of the best Superhero TV shows to date. Hold on, scratch that, it's THE BEST superhero show ever put on scene. It's absolutely perfect.

Better than Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman?!

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theacidskull

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@theacidskull said:

Easily one of the best Superhero TV shows to date. Hold on, scratch that, it's THE BEST superhero show ever put on scene. It's absolutely perfect.

Better than Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman?!

YES

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Caudill

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I binge watched the whole thing yesterday, something I rarely ever do with television but I absolutely loved this show, easily the best superhero show out today.

The creators were very faithful to the source material and the actors all portrayed their characters pretty damn well, the action scenes were plentiful and awesome too. I have some minor nit-picky complaints but overall I'm super impressed and this makes me very excited for the rest of the Marvel Netflix stuff, specifically Iron Fist.

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deactivated-5f8907c9ada33

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The end of episode 5... oh boy.

@caudill: It's hard not to binge watch something like this, the ending of each episode has been really intriguing.

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conmulligan

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#13  Edited By conmulligan

I've only seen the first four episodes but I like it so far. My only real gripe is that the Deborah Ann Woll and Rosario Dawson characters seem paper thin at this point. I'd be disappointed if their only purpose is to get rescued by DareDevil every other episode.

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andrew2696

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@conmulligan: I mean Claire patches him up the first time they meet. That's gotta be something.

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conmulligan

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@andrew2696: I dunno, that whole thing just seemed like it was designed to get Murdock to care about her enough for her capture to mean something. I hope I'm wrong and that the back 9 episodes have more for them to do.

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s-a-n-JR

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#16  Edited By s-a-n-JR

It's awesome, and so tonally different from other MCU films/TV that it's easy to forget that it's all connected. This series takes place in the same universe as Guardians of the Galaxy. Think about that. Matt Murdock could theoretically have a conversation with a talking space racoon one day. I love it, it's so ridiculous.

@andrew2696 said:

Anyone get excited hearing Madame Gao hint about her home country? And apparently the stamp on her drugs is another reference.

Could you please explain the references?

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andrew2696

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@conmulligan: I mean a bit. But I think she's an alright character and Rosario Dawson is good in the role.

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andrew2696

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@sanj: Spoilers for episode 12 The stamp on her drugs is apparently a symbol relating to an Iron Fist villain, Iron Fist being the mystical martial artist and another upcoming Netflix series. And when Madame Gao is leaving to her home country she says it's not China but somewhere "It's a considerable distance farther."

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Caudill

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#19  Edited By Caudill

@andrew2696 said:

Anyone get excited hearing Madame Gao hint about her home country? And apparently the stamp on her drugs is another reference.

Could you please explain the references?

Gao's home country: She is almost definitely referring to K'un Lun, the "mystical kungfu city of the Immortals"...where Danny Rand (Iron Fist), along with Orson and all previous Iron Fist's were trained and battled Shou-Lao to receive their powers.

Symbol on the heroin pouches: Same symbol on the chest of Davos, the "Steel Serpent", a resident of K'un Lun and recurring villian in all Iron Fist comics.

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andrew2696

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@caudill: According to a random internet person it was specifically Ku'n-Zi not K'un Lun, but I don't know.

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Sooperspy

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I'm only on the fourth episode and I'm loving it. Episode 2 has to be one of the best episodes of television I've ever seen. That final scene is too fucking cool (makes me want to watch Oldboy again).

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I_Stay_Puft

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Watched the first few in kinda reminds me of Arrow but a little bit darker and more grit to it. Really unsure about Vincent D'norfio as the Kingpin so far but the actor playing Matt Murdock I am all for.

Also shout out to Mighty Ducks Fulton Reed as Foggy.

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Caudill

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@andrew2696: Hmm, it very well could be K'un Zi, Davos has worked for them before and the drugs are almost surely pointing at him.

I simply assumed K'un Lun as it's the most known of the "seven capital cities of heaven" in the Iron Fist lore and a huge part of Daniel Rand's story and these references are almost definitely in DD to tie it into the Iron Fist show when it happens

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andrew2696

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@caudill: Yeah I know what you meant. I heard of K'un Lun before but never of the other cities.

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It was fucking fantastic and by far the best comic book show to date. I'd even say it's better than most of Marvels actual movies.

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Redhotchilimist

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What flavor of Marvel am I getting here? I'm only vaguely familiar with the characters from appearances in Spider-Man and random images. Does Fisk have an army of ninjas in this? Does Daredevil fight the guy who had The Spot's powers and kept people's head in sort of a pigsty? Am I getting superpowers or am I getting martial arts, guns and budget abilities like hypnosis a la Agent Carter? Because that show didn't do much for me.

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s-a-n-JR

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#27  Edited By s-a-n-JR
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#28 chaser324  Moderator

@redhotchilimist: This show is pretty dramatically different in tone than the other Marvel TV/movie properties. It's much more grounded, gritty, and violent. Daredevil isn't going around performing miraculous feats of agility in a sparkly new Avengers style outfit - he's just a dude wearing black with a bandana over his face going around beating the hell out of dudes. You should really give it a shot.

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I_Stay_Puft

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#29  Edited By I_Stay_Puft

@chaser324 said:

@redhotchilimist: This show is pretty dramatically different in tone than the other Marvel TV/movie properties. It's much more grounded, gritty, and violent. Daredevil isn't going around performing miraculous feats of agility in a sparkly new Avengers style outfit - he's just a dude wearing black with a bandana over his face going around beating the hell out of dudes. You should really give it a shot.

Makes you wonder if there will be much cross over between Daredevil characters and the other Marvel tv shows series / movie franchise in the future.

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#30  Edited By altairre

Simply a great show, there was not one character I disliked, which can be attributed to the flawless casting (the one thing Marvel always seems to get right these days) and most of them had at least some time to shine. (Don't click the spoilers if you aren't done with the season) The inclusion of Rosario Dawson's character was a bit clumsy in the way they silently dropped her for most of the series at one point only to have her pop back in randomly later but I still liked her. Special shoutout to Foggy putting down lawyer girl and the Karen/Foggy drinking scenes.

It also solves the villain problem Marvel had for the longest time remarkably well. Now it seems that D'onofrio's performance as Fisk is more polarizing that I'd have thought while watching it but I'm firmly in the supporting camp. He has that certain menacing presence to him and his awkwardness/nervousness only enhances the feeling that his unstable mood could switch from sympathetic to murderous at any time . The scene where he kills Ben Ulrich deserves to be mentioned here. The action scenes are well done for the most part, certainly a cut above what Arrow/Flash/AoS are showing (though AoS improved greatly on that point), some of the flip kicks are maybe a bit much. A nice little touch is that the fighters (including Daredevil) get tired as fights drag on and are affected by injuries they recieved earlier. Sloppy punches and kicks, longer, heavier windups, the fighters even take small breaks to catch there breath from time to time. It does the by now worn out "dark and gritty" without sacrificing lighthearted scenes or humerous quips, which is why I buy the connection to the MCU. It simply shows a different place and a different side of what we already know which is exactly what these "street level" shows (Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist being the other ones) are supposed to do and It doesn't feel jarring to me even if Daredevil is an extremely brutal show at times. Anybody else think of Sleeping Dogs when Fisk bashed that guy's head off with a car dor?

Generally, the connection to the MCU is a strength because the show does it without getting in your face too much. What happens in Avengers is simply referred to as "the incident". For everybody who knows and cares to pick up on it, it adds texture to both this show and to the Avengers retroactively. It shows that the battle for New york isn't just a bunch of explosions, flashy lights and (awesome) action sequences but that there is fallout, there are consequences that have an impact on the world, that others have to deal with, which we get to see here. For everybody who doesn't know the show works regardless as a quality standalone piece. I'm really curious how Marvel will tackle the big Infinity War event down the line and how much these connections will pay off.

One thing I'd be interested in hearing other people talk about is the pacing. Netflix shows usually have problems with the pacing because they're not bound by the limits of other TV shows in that they can go on for however long they please. What could be an advantage often ends up creating scenes that feel bloated or padded because there was ultimately was no need to cut them down (House of Cards certainly has this problem at times). Daredevil actually is the first Netflix show I didn't have this issue with though that probably is because I was so interested in what the characters had to say that it alwas felt engaging even if the scene dragged on for a while. A seond viewing will most likely give a better impression of that.

In summary I have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised by how great Daredevil turned out to be. I'd say everybody even remotely interested should give this a look even if you're not especially into superhero stuff. Once you get over Daredevil's super senses it is the most grounded of the superhero shows out there and doesn't venture into supernatural territory at all really.

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edgaras1103

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#32  Edited By edgaras1103

Watched first two episodes and I think it's really great. I like the lightning in the show, how the emphasize light sources and overall visual style reminded me of Fight Club. Also the intro reminded me of hannibal. Episode 2 last scene was awesome Oldboy style. Arrow was my favorite superhero TV show, but this one might take the cake.

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citizenkane

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I just started watching and am 2 episodes in. I am really digging it so far. The fights are excellently choreographed, though the lighting (or severe lack of) kinds of hinders the scenes sometimes.

Overall, I am definitely going to binge it over the weekend.

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redyoshi

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@altairre: I agree that they've handled this program's inclusion into the universe well. They feel like citizens still picking up the pieces in some ways, but they're not pausing to dole out exposition on what happened in the movies. An example being when those Russian buildings exploded, the elderly Hispanic lady in her panic yelled out, "The sky is falling again," and none of the other characters around stopped to point out what she may have been referring to as they've all lived through that before.

Also, about the pacing, I haven't felt like any scene has dragged on for too long that I've gotten bored (I mentioned earlier that the fights are a bit much for me, but they've always been entertaining), my only problem is that in my binge-watching when someone refers to something incredible that happened in a certain episode, it takes me a little longer to puzzle out what episode that may be in reference to as they all lead into each other in what I feel to be a very natural way, and I end up losing track.

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Brendan

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Ehhh...writing isn't great. No one talks like people. Everybody is way too dramatic or poetic to feel real. The "best friend" character is not believable as a person or as someone who apparently was smart enough to be one of the top grads of the best law school in the country. I found myself constantly rolling my eyes at the news reporter guy's every line. Maybe I'm spoiled by the Breaking Bad/Mad Men/House of Cards of the world but this show's dialogue just screams "uninspired network writing" even though it's on Netflix.

The fight choreography is fantastic considering the budget/timeline TV has to be shot on. It's the part that makes the show almost worth it. I've watched the first 6 episodes and I don't think I care enough to finish it.

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mr__kamikaze

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#36  Edited By mr__kamikaze

@i_stay_puft said:

@chaser324 said:

@redhotchilimist: This show is pretty dramatically different in tone than the other Marvel TV/movie properties. It's much more grounded, gritty, and violent. Daredevil isn't going around performing miraculous feats of agility in a sparkly new Avengers style outfit - he's just a dude wearing black with a bandana over his face going around beating the hell out of dudes. You should really give it a shot.

Makes you wonder if there will be much cross over between Daredevil characters and the other Marvel tv shows series / movie franchise in the future.

They do hint at more fantastical things, at least four different times. But they're subtle. Have a feeling future seasons will start to explore Matt's connection with The Hand and what not, which could lead to him being a little more involved with the mainstream stuff, slightly.

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StarvingGamer

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#37  Edited By StarvingGamer

Fucking fantastic. Love the nods to things like Madame Gao and a ninja wearing red. The casting was fantastic and I feel like the fact that a lot of people who don't seem to have an affinity for the comics are annoyed by Foggy means that they did the perfect job with Foggy. I really appreciated this take on Fisk as a character and am simultaneously really sad and really impressed that they killed Ben Urich. I hope this initial Netflix run is successful because, if they can keep the quality up, I'd love to have another one of these come out every couple months. Still not sure about Krysten Ritter as Jessica Jones though. Are they going to give her super strength? Don't know if Ritter can pull that off convincingly.

EDIT: Also yeah, fight scene at end of episode 2 is one of the best fight scenes in anything.

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altairre

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#38  Edited By altairre

@brendan said:

Ehhh...writing isn't great. No one talks like people. Everybody is way too dramatic or poetic to feel real. The "best friend" character is not believable as a person or as someone who apparently was smart enough to be one of the top grads of the best law school in the country. I found myself constantly rolling my eyes at the news reporter guy's every line. Maybe I'm spoiled by the Breaking Bad/Mad Men/House of Cards of the world but this show's dialogue just screams "uninspired network writing" even though it's on Netflix.

The fight choreography is fantastic considering the budget/timeline TV has to be shot on. It's the part that makes the show almost worth it. I've watched the first 6 episodes and I don't think I care enough to finish it.

I disagree with that. In the context the show is set in I felt that the characters were absolutely believable, the sidecharacters more so than most other shows. To me it actually was a strong suit how they handled the supporting cast, it made the show feel more alive. Overall I find it hard to compare it to Breaking Bad and Mad Men, since they are so incredibly well written in that department, top of the shelf really, but I definitely prefer it to House of Cards. If anything I think the "no one talks like people" issue is more prevalent there, especially Spacey's material which I feel is often overwritten (mostly purposefully so and often to effect but I still have to roll my eyes every now and then). I'm generally not so hot on HoC though.

@redyoshi: Notice how I didn't include the episode when referring to something in my spoilers? I have the same problem. It all flows together which to be fair is how it is supposed to be watched. They said from the beginning on that this was meant to be more of a 13 hour movie than a conventional TV show.

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GunstarRed

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#39  Edited By GunstarRed

I thought the first episode was ok. The action was jittery and messy in that horrible modern action movie kind of way, but The actor playing Matt is likeable. The fight in the second episode was great though, there's something a little bit messy about the way he takes on those seven or eight dudes. More impressive than the fight was the way he lifted his mask, stumbled into the room and rescued the boy offscreen. There was something really impactful and heroic about that.

I'm only at episode 3, I thought it was ok, better than the first episode, I understand they're still kind of building. I do think it being set in the same universe as all the other Marvel properties is a little Jarring though. Agents of Shield hasn't been completely bloodless, and Winter Soldier was violent as shit considering how little blood there is, but there's something a little off putting about watching men get spiked through the eye in graphic detail.

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AlKusanagi

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Anyone get excited hearing Madame Gao hint about her home country? And apparently the stamp on her drugs is another reference.

As soon as she said that, I was all "K'un-Lun, motherfuckers!!!"

I loved all of the cast BUT Kingpin. Fisk came off as borderline autistic, and not the always in control criminal mastermind he should be. Loved Urich, and Stick was the most gangsta-ass G to ever grace a TV screen.

But is there going to be a second season, or will the various things left hanging (Karen's past, the Hand, etc.) be part of the Defenders series?

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altairre

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I thought the first episode was ok. The action was jittery and messy in that horrible modern action movie kind of way, but The actor playing Matt is likeable. The fight in the second episode was great though, there's something a little bit messy about the way he takes on those seven or eight dudes. More impressive than the fight was the way he lifted his mask, stumbled into the room and rescued the boy offscreen. There was something really impactful and heroic about that.

I'm only at episode 3, I thought it was ok, better than the first episode, I understand they're still kind of building. I do think it being set in the same universe as all the other Marvel properties is a little Jarring though. Agents of Shield hasn't been completely bloodless, and Winter Soldier was violent as shit considering how little blood there is, but there's something a little off putting about watching men get spiked through the eye in graphic detail.

I'm of two minds about this. On one hand it didn't necessarily need the gore and the show does a good job about implying violence without actually pointing the camera at it. On the other hand it really does add weight to certain actions, fights and moments. Specifically the scene you're referring to the way they portrayed the impact that image had on Matt was excellently done. His shock is palpable and the "Holy shit did he just do that" reaction mirrors what I felt as well. I can definitely understand those who take issue with it though.

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StarvingGamer

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#42  Edited By StarvingGamer

I loved all of the cast BUT Kingpin. Fisk came off as borderline autistic, and not the always in control criminal mastermind he should be.

I think the problem with the traditional portrayal of Kingpin is that, in this much grittier iteration of Daredevil, Matt Murdock would never have had a chance. Comic-book Fisk doesn't have any weaknesses. TV Daredevil would never be able to get anywhere close to him.

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I_Stay_Puft

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#43  Edited By I_Stay_Puft

@mr__kamikaze said:

@i_stay_puft said:

@chaser324 said:

@redhotchilimist: This show is pretty dramatically different in tone than the other Marvel TV/movie properties. It's much more grounded, gritty, and violent. Daredevil isn't going around performing miraculous feats of agility in a sparkly new Avengers style outfit - he's just a dude wearing black with a bandana over his face going around beating the hell out of dudes. You should really give it a shot.

Makes you wonder if there will be much cross over between Daredevil characters and the other Marvel tv shows series / movie franchise in the future.

They do hint at more fantastical things, at least four different times. But they're subtle. Have a feeling future seasons will start to explore Matt's connection with The Hand and what not, which could lead to him being a little more involved with the mainstream stuff, slightly.

I couldn't see Daredevil and co. intertwining with the more family friendly show Agents of Shield. I could imagine Rosario Dawson's character on Luke Cage and Ironfist Netflix series when that comes out. Could be wrong but I read somewhere that Rosario Dawson's character is based on a former Luke Cage love interest.

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altairre

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@mr__kamikaze said:

@i_stay_puft said:

@chaser324 said:

@redhotchilimist: This show is pretty dramatically different in tone than the other Marvel TV/movie properties. It's much more grounded, gritty, and violent. Daredevil isn't going around performing miraculous feats of agility in a sparkly new Avengers style outfit - he's just a dude wearing black with a bandana over his face going around beating the hell out of dudes. You should really give it a shot.

Makes you wonder if there will be much cross over between Daredevil characters and the other Marvel tv shows series / movie franchise in the future.

They do hint at more fantastical things, at least four different times. But they're subtle. Have a feeling future seasons will start to explore Matt's connection with The Hand and what not, which could lead to him being a little more involved with the mainstream stuff, slightly.

I couldn't see Daredevil and co. intertwining with the more family friendly show Agents of Shield. I could imagine Rosario Dawson's character on Luke Cage and Ironfist Netflix series when that comes out. Could be wrong but I read somewhere that Rosario Dawson's character is based on a former Luke Cage love interest.

Did you know that Carl "Crusher" Creel, the dude Matt's father fights against is Absorbing Man from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D? So there already is a connection there if a small one.

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mr__kamikaze

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@mr__kamikaze said:

@i_stay_puft said:

@chaser324 said:

@redhotchilimist: This show is pretty dramatically different in tone than the other Marvel TV/movie properties. It's much more grounded, gritty, and violent. Daredevil isn't going around performing miraculous feats of agility in a sparkly new Avengers style outfit - he's just a dude wearing black with a bandana over his face going around beating the hell out of dudes. You should really give it a shot.

Makes you wonder if there will be much cross over between Daredevil characters and the other Marvel tv shows series / movie franchise in the future.

They do hint at more fantastical things, at least four different times. But they're subtle. Have a feeling future seasons will start to explore Matt's connection with The Hand and what not, which could lead to him being a little more involved with the mainstream stuff, slightly.

I couldn't see Daredevil and co. intertwining with the more family friendly show Agents of Shield. I could imagine Rosario Dawson's character on Luke Cage and Ironfist Netflix series when that comes out. Could be wrong but I read somewhere that Rosario Dawson's character is based on a former Luke Cage love interest.

She's an amalgamation of the Night Nurse, of which three have existed. Kinda like a nurse who patches up the super hero community when they need it. She's worked closely with Doctor Strange, as well, if memory serve.

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AlKusanagi

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@i_stay_puft: Wasn't Rosario's character supposed to become Night Nurse, or am I thinking of them supposedly putting her in the Doctor Strange movie?

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TheHT

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Marathoned it last night, it's great! Dragged a bit towards the end, but wrapped up very nicely. The red costume is good, but not quite there yet. The eyes seem oddly squished. But man, the action in this show is fantastic. And good god is it violent. It's by far the most violent and grim MCU entry.

The thing I like most is probably the part where he's actually getting messed up in fights. He's not Batman going around dominating crooks. He takes some hits, and occasionally straight up loses. They did a good job teasing the more fantastical elements as well, like motherfucking ninjas and such.

Also holy shit, Vincent D'Onofrio looks fucking perfect as Wilson Fisk. It's insane. My impression was that this was as much an origin story for Fisk as it was for Daredevil, and the next time we see Fisk he'll be closer to what you'd expect out of Kingpin.

But yeah, strong cast all around. Really great show.

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FrostyRyan

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Whoa. this is the only of the Marvel and DC shows right now I'm even mildly interested and now I'm seeing it get much praise. May have to give it a shot

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@alkusanagi: They say a second season is a possibility but I imagine the other series make it messy. And the Defenders is going to be short compared to the main series so probably not there.

I think Fisk is fine. He's childlike sure but there's a menace there.

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Entreri10

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I've only watched the first episode so far but I am absolutely loving this show, especially Charlie Cox so far as the titular Devil.