Star Wars The Last Jedi Discussion (tag your spoilers!)

Just came back from seeing it. I enjoyed it for the most part. Quite a long movie, but it didn't feel like it had a ton of fat.

I did think the first half of it was not great, but I'm having trouble articulating why. I guess some of it felt rushed. I think some of the dialogue is a bit stilted throughout the entire movie. It also had just way too many forced comedy bits, especially with the little furbies. It was also definitely retreading the same story points of Empire Strikes Back. It seems they are just going to create the original trilogy again with a slight new story. Which I am fine with, but it felt a bit like cheating at times.

I really liked most of the interactions between Rey and Ben. I'm a bit confused as to how Luke died. I suppose he just did the 'Kenobi thing', but it was a bit odd since he was by himself. Lots of good shots throughout the entire movie though. Luke dying and Holdo going into lightspeed stand out.

I'll definitely watch it again, as I feel I need to have a better opinion on it than I currently do. What did you think?

@zevvion: Just saw it. I think I liked it. There's still a lot to process.

I thought the twists were great and everything in the last act was solid. The opening action scene was strong.

But boy was it bloated in the middle. Everything with Finn, Rose and Del Toro's character felt pointless. Ghost Yoda's dialogue was kinda bad too. I feel like there's a great film in there if you cut out the middle.

@nietzschecookie: I agree it has some pretty mediocre beats in it. I agree on the stuff with Finn and the girl, but I think it wasn't so much pointless as it was just rushed. The takeaway in the end is that Rey thinks Finn has a thing for that girl (I don't even remember her name). But the interaction between Finn and said girl went through so many emotions at once, I never felt it established any of them.

I also had some issue even with the strong points of the movie. For example, why does Snook die before we even know what he is, where he came from, why he does what he does. For a person that seemingly was more powerful than any other Sith or villain in the franchise so far, it's odd how he is basically just a stepping stone for Kylo.

No intention of seeing it, after seeing that kylo ren survived the first movie.

Yeah, weird how the central antagonist survives the first movie of a trilogy especially when a character is told to save him at the end of it. Odd.

So I know many of you have just had only one viewing of the movie, but I remember after multiple times of watching TFA, it definitely grew old really fast... I feel as if the writing and new characters just don't really carry the same weight as any of the past movies and there are some downright goofy moments that feel like they shouldn't exist in the final cut. Does that feeling still persist in this movie? Without giving any specific spoilers please.

It kind of sucks when a new Star Wars movie because the initial impressions are just part of this massive hype wave of irrational excitement that everyone forgets they should put their nostalgia aside.

You, apparently remember a lot more of that movie than I do. I checked out after kylo beat the crap out of that computer terminal, and left the theater after he pulled off his welding mask to reveal he was the keyboard player for the emo version of love and rockets

Oh, so you didn't even see the movie and then act surprised that the antagonist lives? And it's a good thing the point of Kylo's appearance was lost on you, considering it's kind of crucial to his character that he looks so non threatening outside of the mask and all.

@whitestripes09 said:

Man, I dunno what Star Wars you've been watching but they've all had goofy moments.

Oh wow, you've completely missed the entire point of his character.

I only saw it once, but I am not part of some 'massive hype' train. After you watch the movie you can check out my spoilers above, I am not hyping it up I am criticizing various parts of it. I did like it overall though.

To answer your question: yes. There is still stilted dialogue and goofy moments. But I am not really with you that the original trilogy didn't have those. In fact, I am starting to suspect they put them in on purpose to make it feel more like the old movies.

I feel like the old movies are overrated though. I actually still really like Episode VII. So take that for what you will.

I haven't seen TLJ yet, but I get what you're saying. Star Wars is like this evergreen property and it's tough to get an honest opinion of it when it's in the theaters because everyone gets caught up in the hype. Even the prequels reviewed well at the time of their release and they're complete trash. Reflecting back on the series I now feel only A New Hope and Empire were any good at all. I was really disappointed in TFA and I thought Rogue One was crap, save for the last 30 minutes.

@zevvion: Yeah, I wanted Finn to have his own story going in to this. But something about his adventure to the casino planet just broke the tension of the chase setup of the film, which was all very Battlestar Galactica, specifically the first episode, "33".

And I sort of see the reverse perspective on Snoke, why go into the character if the character is just a misdirection? Or to put it another way, does it matter where Snoke came from? The film's twist wants to send the message that it doesn't matter where Rey came from, anyone can be a Jedi, even you street sweeper kid! (still not sure how much i like that part of the end). Maybe its enough to say evil sith can come from anywhere as well?

I think the film will be as divisive as Force Awakens was among fans. Anecdotally, among my friends who I saw it with, the people who loved Force Awakens were pretty down on this film and those that had real beef with Force Awakens loved it. So take that however you want, but I would say set aside preconceptions.

There is way too much space magic =/

I love Star Wars. The Force Awakens was great.

This movie had so many issues. Definitely not looking forward to the new trilogy they're giving Rian Johnson in some massively misplaced trust by Disney if this is anything to go by. I could really do without the Marvel cheese in Star Wars. WTF were they thinking with Leia floating through space, Luke channeling Jay Z and wiping dirt off his shoulder, and the slow-mo lightsaber dodge? Also waving away the two biggest mysteries of the new movies as inconsequential? Eh?

It's a decent adventure flick, I'd comfortably say. But I'll be damned if all the reviews that hint at this film dealing with the theme of 'letting go of the past' are way off. I'm an idiot I guess, but I really expected more from the film. Instead it's strictly being everything you thought it would be. There's so much promise about doing away with the Jedi and moving on; about changing the dynamic for the better, but it's all pissed away by an incredibly predictable and boring ending. Seriously, there's so little development from the Republic side: all they do is kill off a character lamely and ultimately do nothing with another. Again, it's a fun and well-made movie but It's the same shit, man. And I need to stop thinking otherwise.

I keep seeing people calling it weird and I was wondering if someone could shed light on that. I already know all the major spoilers.

@acidpops91: Part of it is the humour. Stars Wars always had jokes and banter, and Marvel Disney films have crafted a type of self-aware humour, but the self deprecating, super-self aware humour in this film was a little jarring. One review compared the jokes to Spaceballs or Robot Chicken/Family Guy star wars. Like imagine they made an unfunny version of Last Jedi, then someone made a parody of it, then they blended them together into one final cut.

The jokes are funny, but different.

I liked it overall, especially as it was very reminiscent of the battle star episode 33 minutes. Structurally it felt different to other Star Wars films as it was basically one long battle and in that sense it did feel a little long especially with the casino stuff in the middle.

Also there was a logic to the space battles that wasn't present (or at least explained) in the other films. It felt like there were actual tactics here instead of just throwing a bunch of cgi ships together. E.g fighters are useful because they can get past shields and capital ship cannons have trouble targeting them etc

On another note is this the first Star Wars where we see a visible shield on a ship? I know in the previous movies they would talk about deflector shields or whatever but we'd never see them, ships seemed to just shoot straight into each other's hulls. Maybe a more hardcore Star Wars fan can enlighten me.

Background: I think Episodes IV and V are great. The rest of Star Wars has been... not quite that. On a good day I might vouch for Republic Commando.

As someone who came out of The Force Awakens pretty unenthused, but ultimately sympathetic to the film after hearing one Austin Walker's opinions, I think the Last Jedi feels very good right now, but there's really too much movie (152 minutes to be exact) to process so soon after seeing it. It definitely likes to keep its main characters far, far apart, which just makes things harder. What I will say is that it's a gorgeous film - its aesthetic feels closer in spirit to Rogue One than The Force Awakens.

Super curious to hear how people respond to Leia's "moment". It's absolutely going to ruffle some feathers but it definitely worked for me.

@milijango:

That Leia moment works in concept for me but the execution looked awkward

@milijango: It was bizarre. Leia apparently is more one with the Force than most of the Jedi we've seen out of nowhere and no explanation is given? It was mind boggling and not in a good way.

@zevvion:

It depends on what actually happened I think. I've never considered star wars to be hard scifi so I thought they were just being loosey-goosey with the science and Leia managed to survive long enough to pull herself to safety. Now if the case is that she died and then brought herself back to life with the force or made some kind space bubble? That might be a bit much.

I dunno how to blurr out my comments so take everything past this point as a spoiler!!

First film ever in 31 years of existence I went for an opening midnight showing, I really liked it overall, only had minor issues with stuff like the silly jokes but that's whatever. The story itself was quite good and I loved the Rey/Ben interactions and arch. I also expected to get to know more about who the fuck Snoke was, but that in the end made me more surprised they went for the kill! It's mainstream and all that, but the nostalgia still works for me, and the spectacle so I am pretty much all in. 4/5, same as Force Awakens for me.

Just came back from watching it. Way too many things to talk about to even try to break it down without watching it again, but I honestly think this is the worst Star Wars movie (trilogy, sequels and Rogue One) they've made. I'm not saying it's absolute trash, and it might not have as many cringey moments as some of the prequels stuff, but this was a rough watch for me from beginning to end.

I dunno, maybe it's just that the first sequence left such a bad taste in my mouth. I was even getting really excited when the crawl started and everything, but then they start with that ? "Here's this awesome monster of a ship that's gonna blow the rebels away and be a clear antagonist through the movie aaaaand it's gone". What the fuck was that ? But even not considering that, the central conceit of the main story plot is so incredibly bad. And then you throw in all the references and jokes and eye-rolley dialogue. I dunno... Maybe it's not as bad as the prequels, but it sure comes close.

@darth-malum: Highlight the text you want to block out, then click the thing above the comment box that says "Spoiler".

@seventytwotransformations: That is a good point. But even if we assume that she did not die and 'merely' Force dragged herself in space, how is it that Leia has never been able to lift so much as a feather with the Force and all of a sudden she can do this; and then... no explanation? Are we just supposed to sit there like: 'Oh yeah, of course this character we have known for decades across 8 movies can now do this monumental thing that she has never been able to do'.

Here is my review TOTAL SHITEBAGS, just the worst, so many bad decisions start to finish, it manages to deftly avoid the one sliver of an interesting plot twist, in favour of 3 pointless sub plots.

Years from now people will say, wow Rogue One was really good, how did that happen?

This take is too hot to not have spoiler tags, but there aren't plot spoilers.

HOT GARBAGE. Start to finish, I utterly hated it. WTF did I just watch??? Normally I would try to back it up with logic or a reason but I had a reaction to this movie of utter revulsion.

I feel dirty.

Just got back, great movie I'd probaby push it above RotJ as third best. It almost felt like a Trek film in a way if you pulled out the Jedi stuff and that really shaky subplot involving Finn. Like I totally understand what they were trying to achieve with Rose, but man her last line was really forced and worked against any progress made for her character. They should've saved the "I love you" for the next one. I am disappointed however, that the rumor that the Resistance would take shelter from Laura Dern's character on a spooky deserted battleship inhabited by equally spooky droids, didn't pan out.

This is pretty spot on.

Little too much "comedy" and it was modern comedy that really took me out of the movie.

Also felt like there were too many characters and none of them had enough time to establish themselves.

Meandering story that doesn't cover much ground.

I think I liked the first one better simply because it was a lot more focused.

Surprised that Leia didn't die, wonder how much she will be in the next movie.

I don't understand the Snoke character design, he just looked so stupid and when he dies it was just good now I don't have to look at this stupid jackanapi anymore, they could have made him a menacing bad ass and his death would have had alot more impact.

Nothing about deltoro made any sense.

I thought there was supposed to be a tonne of Phasma in this one, feels more like a fuck you to the fans, hey we are going to make this cool looking character and do absolutely nothing with her.

@Kidavenger

DelToro's character made a lot of sense, just like Snoke (who was incredibly menacing) they were familiar roles which they spun with twists you weren't expecting. Snoke it turns out isn't the big baddie on the level of Palpatine, despite being the first Jedi...or Sith (I dunno, I haven't read the artbook explaining it all), and Benecio wasn't the expected replacement for Han in terms of the rogue who does whats right over being paid.

Also, regarding Phasma being "a cool looking character they do nothing with." Remember Darth Maul and Boba Fett?

I posted this on reddit, but this pretty much sums up my feelings.

So many bizarre decisions with this movie. I am genuinely baffled at what I just watched and the fact that this movie has almost zero negative reviews.

I felt they had so many opportunities to make this trilogy interesting story wise, but botched it every single time. At the end we are basically at square one with the numbers trimmed down on both sides. And what exactly did the tracking device side story accomplish? It basically amounted to nothing because the admiral didn't feel like telling anyone her plan. And why did some random other codemaster happen to just be in their cell?

And Why did Snoke this incredibly powerful Sith Lord die to something so stupidly obvious. I came into this movie thinking he was this mysterious character that could have interesting motivations or schemes or something, anything. But no, he is completely discardable other than the fact that he had gotten into Kylo's head back when he was training with Luke.

And there was so many moments where they pretend like they are killing someone, but don't. Like Leia magically flying, Finn getting stopped at the last second (that entire thing was so comically cliche), Luke getting cut in half, Luke getting bombarded with lasers.

Also, the non stop fan service. Like fucking constantly. I don't need to see cute guinea pig things 20 different times.

Or the non stop comedy, even in supposedly serious moments. I felt like we never went 5 min without some kind of joke. They did have a few that were fantastic, but most of it was just out of place and absurd (ie Lightsaber toss over the shoulder).

I will say this movie is beautiful. It had some incredibly powerful and artistic imagery that I appreciated. I do like some of the plot ideas, such as Luke failing Kylo, or that Rey empathizes with Kylo and may join him. But as I said, they played it safe and left us with very obvious Good vs Bad in the end, moving the plot nowhere. I feel like they wanted to make it crazy and do all these wild things, but in the end it is all for nothing because they are afraid to make the same leap when it comes to the overall story. They chickened out and it sucks.

Also, wtf is with luke disappearing at the end? Fine I'll let him do his force hologram stuff, but just coming to peace with himself and vanishing from existence? Such a strange fucking movie.

The pretty much made Star Wars a marvel movie.

Star Wars VIII: Ehhh Stuff Happened I

Guess.

Jesus you guys are fucking miserable. That movie was so fun.

I'm still processing my thoughts, but:

-The writing and pacing were far worse compared to TFA; an overabundance of quips, gags, and double takes (my theory puts this one down to focus tests indicating the movie was too dark with too much graphic violence, so they went overboard to balance it) coupled with the regression or stagnation of a couple of character arcs made me feel uneasy and off-put from the get go. They also broke out the idiot ray and zapped a good portion of the cast (the entire mutiny bit more or less happened for no reason other than "the plot will not allow for these characters to explain what they are doing.") which is very frustrating.

-They wasted a number of characters and added in a few that felt unnecessary: Snoke and Phasma (who I am assuming is dead) are unceremoniously killed off after having accomplished nothing, with no explanation as to who they were, how they got to be where they are, and what their motivation was. It makes all of the speculation after TFA about them seem so hilarious; turns out, the answer is who the fuck cares, they're dead. By comparison Benicio del Toro's character has left me scratching my head; he just so happens to be a guy with the exact same skillset as the guy who Finn and Rose are looking for, he flip flops between shifty and kind-hearted, delivers a very brief "morality is grey" speech, then betrays them and fucks off. I assume we'll see him again in the next film but I just don't understand his inclusion or why he was introduced in this way, almost to the point that I think his role was larger and then chopped up.

On character arcs:

Finn should have died. They have the perfect "I'm not a hero" early set up, with him only thinking of Rey and trying to bail, he realizes that's selfish, that there are plenty of people in the Resistance worth fighting for, and they set up the perfect opportunity to have him go out in a blaze of glory, only to pull the plug at the last moment. We already did the whole "we have to get out of here, you can't beat the First Order" bit in TFA, so why do it again if you aren't going to pay it off? It didn't help that the entire Rose plotline felt fairly inconsequential and as such sucked a lot of the momentum out of the character, and that his fights were overall worse than in TFA as well.

Luke's death feels like an unearned payoff; I know he'll show up as Force ghost in IX, but he doesn't really do anything in this film. They reveal he has a moment of weakness which kicks off the events of his eventual exile (I don't think we needed a "Luke is having doubts" bit given the conclusion of his arc in RotJ, but whatever), he fucks around milking a space cow for a while, has a chat with Yoda, confronts Kylo (which seemed to do nothing? I mean, it bought the Resistance time and plays into the whole "embracing the legend" thing, but unlike Obi-Wan's death it didn't do anything to Rey, or Kylo for that matter), and then goes "welp, good enough" and dies. His interactions with Rey are minimal and their relationship was not built up nearly as much as I thought it would be. A lot of this could have been solved by simply not killing him at the end, and I know he'll show up as a ghost, but it just seemed like wasted potential ahead of an abrupt end.

My other complaints are more minor than the above, and I did like a few individual elements (cinematography, the fight choreography, the score), but I'm way down on this film compared to TFA and will probably have a hard time summoning up the same amount of excitement for the next one.

Having to mouse hover over every single black bar in this thread has been a nuisance; why not just make a spoiler thread without the need to tag everything? Is there a way to just uncensor everything at once?

I loved it. The movie subverted my expectations, and I honestly have no idea what is going to happen in the last movie. Not knowing what to expect has me more excited than I have ever been about Star Wars.

I really liked it. I thought there was a good balance between serious and goofy, and while there were certain parts that were a little slow they helped give a sense of an expanded universe, which was appreciated. For example while a lot of people seemed to really dislike the casino planet, I thought it was cool to see a side of the galaxy that wasn't all desert slums or forest moons. I wish they'd found a way to get the cantina band in there, though :P

Another thing that people seem to struggle with is how strong Leia is with the force. I think you have to consider that the Jedi were always supposed to be more powerful than the first few films could ever really visualize with the technology they had at the time; certainly in the books the Jedi are supposed to be more akin to The Force Unleashed than how they are presented in A New Hope. As a more calm and balanced personality it would make sense that Leia would also be more naturally in tune with her powers.

As for Luke dying at the end of the film, I had no trouble with that either. That's how Yoda goes out in Return Of The Jedi, and Ray's "peace and purpose" line makes total sense to me after the confident discussion Luke had with Kylo. He knows he can continue to guide Ray as a force-ghost (What's the official name for those dudes?), so it's not like he's going to be absent from episode 9...

Even the fucking porgs weren't overplayed, which is a miracle.

A couple of mild criticisms:

Phasma was killed after doing absolutely fuck all. She was hyped up as being this ultimate badass stormtrooper; In episode 7 she gets locked in a trash compacter, in 8 she has one fight which she immediately loses and apparently dies in? Bit of an anticlimax.

I don't like how BB8 can pretty much do everything which the rest of the droids lumber around like clunky idiots. He manages to singlehandedly take down a squad of guards and then pilot an AT-ST to save the day yet again? I know they're trying to promote him as the mascot but we're getting dangerously close to the shitty "R2-D2 has a jetpack!" level of stupidity from episode 3.

@sirpsychosexy: @drachmalius:

The lack of negatives reviews around this movie is staggering, I feel like I just 'put the glasses on'.

I liked the movie but it has too much stuff in it. Characters aren't given time in scenes to talk to each other but there's plenty of time to spend on aliens that don't do anything, goofy space chickens and Leia floating through space for no reason.

@avantegardener I'm just glad I'm not the only one who felt this way. It's rough out there if you didn't drink the kool-aid

this review sums up my feelings better than I could: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/star-wars-the-last-jedi-reviewed

This is the 1st review I read, and I thought, well sour grapes I guess, little realizing how true it was.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/film/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review-boring-bloated-and-confusing-1.3324286

The Kinda Funny chaps pretty effectively exemplify everything I feel about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W01WMGLFpw

I really wanted this film to be great, I'm just not going to ignore the fact it clearly wasn't.

@avantegardener thanks I'll check out that Kinda Funny link. It's frustrating because I also wanted it to be great, I wish I liked it. TFA was so much fun! What happened :(

I know right, I enjoyed TFA, and Rogue One was masterful, we'll have to drown our sorrows over a glass of blue milk this Christmas period.

Thus concludes my giving out, thank you for your cathartic responses :)

I liked it a lot, and am bummed to a degree to see so many people down on it, but it seemed clear from the early reviews that it would be a divisive movie. From my perspective it reflected just as much as it needed to on what it meant to be a Star Wars movie. Seeing Luke as his lowest possible point was interesting too. He's not the same guy he was at the end of Jedi, yet the conflict he felt throughout Empire and Jedi pretty well established his downtrodden turn as being plausible. Daisy Ridley was the highlight of this for me, as she was in the last. I think Rey is one of the more interesting characters introduced to the series in a long time.

I do have a few issues though.

Some of the quipy dialog felt off. I saw a few of you liken it to the Marvel movie style of self-depreciating/aware dialog and I think that's accurate, and for the most part I find that stuff fine (still found it funny in this movie, mostly), but it also comes off as so distinctly un-Star Wars that it pulled me out at times.

Like most movies I'm sure my opinions will change over the next few days as I have time to reflect on it and listen to other people's thoughts, but I had a great time and would like to give it another watch. Probably place it as my third or fourth favorite Star Wars.

Edit: By the way, can anyone remind me if they ever swore in other Star Wars movies? Hearing "bastard" caught me off guard. I have no problem with language, just not accustomed to hearing it in a Star Wars movie.

After a nights rest i don't think i like this movie all that much. It Taunts you with inserting places to go story wise but then gives you a big fuck you cause Disney.

also not a fan off superman Leia, and now that Kerry Fisher is dead this doesn't make to much sense

also the vacuum of space doesn't seem to be a thing in the star wars universe. ( i am mostly talking about that bomber scene )

Still if you like Popcorn munching and loudly drinking your soda this seems to be a good movie to do so. ( Fuck i hate Cinema theatres )

I thought the movie was fantastic, there were a couple silly moments but they are in all Star Wars films. I liked the subversion of expectations which I personally think could only be achieved with the way TFA reimagined A New Hope. Very clever how that was handled in my opinion.