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#1 Edited by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

Thief is going to be 1080p 30fps on both PS4 and X1. So it's looking just like I figured as second and third wave games start coming in and MS brings the development tools and drivers up to speed that X1 should have no problems for most games being native 1080p.

Thief 4 is high up on my radar and can't wait for it in late February. It's being developed by the same studio who di Deus Ex HR and that game was awesome so it looks like they will do Thief 4 justice and bring this great PC classic back just like they did with Deus Ex.

Back to the 1080p thing this game has some really good graphics and artwork and oozes with atmosphere so I'm really stoked to see that just like I expected MS will bring tools up to speed and X1 should be doing mostly 1080p native games just like PS4 so this is great.

I'm also hoping and expecting some great things from the Xbox One controller in this game with some vibration trigger pulls when shooting arrows with your bow and maybe some sensation feeling when your picking locks of pick pocketing people this should be some great stuff on the Xbox One controller.

Anyone who has been sleeping on Thief 4 Deadly Shadows should wake up immediately because this game is going to be a special one and it's not to far away from launch.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/10/09/thief-gameplay-trailer

#2 Edited by ViciousBearMauling (1254 posts) -

I dunno, the way Patrick was talking about it, and the game-play demo I saw...

I'm not hopeful for this game.

#3 Posted by Deranged (1859 posts) -

Cool beans I guess.

#4 Posted by Deranged (1859 posts) -

I dunno, the way Patrick was talking about it, and the game-play demo I saw...

I'm not hopeful for this game.

Never been a huge Thief fan but I'm open to giving this one a shot.

#5 Posted by Darji (5293 posts) -

@viciousbearmauling: Did he even play the old games?

Actually I think it looks pretty great and the promise of having no stupid supernatural monsters in it is very exciting. This was one thing I really did hate about the old games.

#6 Edited by Colourful_Hippie (4504 posts) -

Wouldn't titanfall also be "second wave" which is running at a crisp 720p, but I guess the more important thing is that the X1 will have a multiplatform game that is comparable to PS4, maybe?

#7 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (3791 posts) -

Did it eat my post, goddangit!.

Well, I'm certainly interested in both Thief 4, and the XONE version. How Thief reviews come out will be the most interesting part, though. Hm.

#8 Edited by rangers517 (214 posts) -

All the games that do hit 1080p on Xbone right now (mostly sports games, which don't have the size and scale of other types of games) had to sacrifice other stuff and have terrible aliasing and usually less effects than the PS4 versions and I expect that'll still be the case for this game. It's just a weak system. There isn't gonna be some magical development tool that makes that go away.

#9 Posted by joshwent (2353 posts) -

Thief is going to be 1080p 30fps on both PS4 and X1. So it's looking just like I figured as second and third wave games start coming in and MS brings the development tools and drivers up to speed that X1 should have no problems for most games being native 1080p.

This is a pretty big leap of logic. I hope all XOne games will be a comparative res to their PS4 counterparts. Better games for everyone is good for us all. But to imply that they'll be identical and whatever problems there were are now solved because Thief is 1080p isn't really based in anything.

I dunno, the way Patrick was talking about it, and the game-play demo I saw...

I'm not hopeful for this game.

For whatever reason, this has become his most groan worthy yet to be released game. He's been shitting on it for at least half a year now. If it comes out, and it sucks, then there you go. But I wouldn't take his arbitrary damning as a sign of anything.

#10 Edited by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

@deranged said:

@viciousbearmauling said:

I dunno, the way Patrick was talking about it, and the game-play demo I saw...

I'm not hopeful for this game.

Never been a huge Thief fan but I'm open to giving this one a shot.

I get that also and I kind of felt the same that back in the day the graphics did not do it justice but now with the next gen power they can really create a beautiful world with amazing atmosphere and artwork. I think they will do this they did a great job with bringing back Deus Ex so I think they can do the same with Thief 4 and really create an amazing looking world.

Listen how Ryan says how good the game looks and it looks that good in the video.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/12/10/thiefs-fan-friendly-changes-ign-rewind-theater

#12 Edited by Blu3V3nom07 (3791 posts) -

@nsakinect2u: 1) That link isn't linked properly. 2) McCaffrey. And even so:

#13 Posted by Tackchevy (266 posts) -

If only Super Mario Bros. had been rendered in 1080p back in the 80's.... My childhood would've been AMAZING

#14 Posted by JayEH (534 posts) -

Are people really still worried about resolution? Who cares really?

Anyway, we'll have to see how games on XONE and PS4 compare and not just on resolution.

And as someone posted above me, I believe the rumor is that Titanfall is 720p (if anybody actually cares about that)

#15 Posted by big_jon (5789 posts) -

More p's = more fun!

#16 Edited by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

I'll answer a few questions. First no just because a game is 1080p does not make it a better game PS4 currently has some games that are 900p like BF4 and AC4 1080p vs X1 720p and 900p and both games actually looks slightly better texture wise on the X1 version so resolution is not the OMG it's better just because of that.

Also Titanfall has not been said to be in 720p it's just been rumored so we don't know for sure. Even if it was it's not going to take away from just how freaking awesome the game is going to be.

Also yes some games have a tad worse AA on the X1 and this is mostly do to the fact that hardly any developer has really been using the 32mb of ESRAM ram but as we will see in upcoming games we will see developers start getting a hold of that and use it more wisely and in most cases maybe uses it for just that better AA.

We are so early in this console gen and not to mention for the first time ever we will see the last gen still go far into next gen with the same games so it will be a year or two before the X1 and PS4 even start getting pushed for graphics. We should see some real next gen goodness with games like the Division and The Witcher 3 so to think these systems are anywhere near being tapped out it's ludicrous in fact they are not even close to being tapped. I doubt they are even using more then a few CPU cores currently for current games on X1/PS4 not to mention MS has already said they will be freeing up another 10% power back to the GPU and also they just announced they are having a dashboard update in early 2014 to add additional performance and drivers. On top of this 343 studios already mentioned in a interview a few months back that MS was going to be letting them have over 6 gigs of ram to use for Halo 5 so looks like MS is already making moves to shrink the OS and have more ram available. We are in the infancy of next gen people need to relax.

#17 Edited by GERALTITUDE (3509 posts) -

I don't see how 1 game being 1080p suddenly means all games will be.

More likely than not we'll see exactly the same thing that happened on 360/PS3. Arcade games and some linear AAA will be 1080, many others will be 720.

#18 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4899 posts) -

@viciousbearmauling said:

I dunno, the way Patrick was talking about it, and the game-play demo I saw...

I'm not hopeful for this game.

Eh, to be fair Eidos Montreal went through this exact same song and dance for Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Internet was sketchy on it, some poo-poo'ed it, everyone played the press build, Deus Ex became a smash hit.

I think this studio has earned the benefit of the doubt. That's not even mentioning that Patrick doesn't even like playing stealth games.

#19 Edited by dionysis (51 posts) -

@viciousbearmauling said:

I dunno, the way Patrick was talking about it, and the game-play demo I saw...

I'm not hopeful for this game.

Eh, to be fair Eidos Montreal went through this exact same song and dance for Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Internet was sketchy on it, some poo-poo'ed it, everyone played the press build, Deus Ex became a smash hit.

I think this studio has earned the benefit of the doubt. That's not even mentioning that Patrick doesn't even like playing stealth games.

I can't picture Thief or Deus Ex demo'ing well at a trade show/event sort of scenario. If this is the same studio that did Deus Ex, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

#20 Edited by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

@geraltitude said:

I don't see how 1 game being 1080p suddenly means all games will be.

More likely than not we'll see exactly the same thing that happened on 360/PS3. Arcade games and some linear AAA will be 1080, many others will be 720.

No one said all games will be 1080p on X1 what was said is that as expected second and third wave games on X1 many more of them will be do to the fact that MS is bringing dev tools and drivers up to spec and also devs will get more comfortable working with the 32mb ESRAM. By the way Thief 4 is not linear it's kind of open world do as you please kind of gameplay. It's a good sign to things to come. Sure PS4 may have a slight edge in some games and X1 will have an edge in other types of games but as long as the X1 start getting most games in 900p or 1080p I don't think we should worry at all they will all look great. I mean look at RYSE it's the current graphics king and it's 900p

#21 Posted by rangers517 (214 posts) -

@geraltitude said:

I don't see how 1 game being 1080p suddenly means all games will be.

More likely than not we'll see exactly the same thing that happened on 360/PS3. Arcade games and some linear AAA will be 1080, many others will be 720.

No one said all games will be 1080p on X1 what was said is that as expected second and third wave games on X1 many more of them will be do to the fact that MS is bringing dev tools and drivers up to spec and also devs will get more comfortable working with the 32mb ESRAM. By the way Thief 4 is not linear it's kind of open world do as you please kind of gameplay. It's a good sign to things to come. Sure PS4 may have a slight edge in some games and X1 will have an edge in other types of games but as long as the X1 start getting most games in 900p or 1080p I don't think we should worry at all they will all look great. I mean look at RYSE it's the current graphics king and it's 900p

Why would the X1 have a slight edge in any games? We already know the specs. It's not some mystery. The PS4 is more powerful and easier to develop for. We're already seeing bigger differences in multiplat games than we saw for most of last gen. If Ryse was on PS4(or obviously PC) it would have been even better.

#22 Edited by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

@rangers517 said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@geraltitude said:

I don't see how 1 game being 1080p suddenly means all games will be.

More likely than not we'll see exactly the same thing that happened on 360/PS3. Arcade games and some linear AAA will be 1080, many others will be 720.

No one said all games will be 1080p on X1 what was said is that as expected second and third wave games on X1 many more of them will be do to the fact that MS is bringing dev tools and drivers up to spec and also devs will get more comfortable working with the 32mb ESRAM. By the way Thief 4 is not linear it's kind of open world do as you please kind of gameplay. It's a good sign to things to come. Sure PS4 may have a slight edge in some games and X1 will have an edge in other types of games but as long as the X1 start getting most games in 900p or 1080p I don't think we should worry at all they will all look great. I mean look at RYSE it's the current graphics king and it's 900p

Why would the X1 have a slight edge in any games? We already know the specs. It's not some mystery. The PS4 is more powerful and easier to develop for. We're already seeing bigger differences in multiplat games than we saw for most of last gen. If Ryse was on PS4(or obviously PC) it would have been even better.

It's obvious your a biased PS fan so no matter what PS is god and the almighty lol. But anyway if you had some sort of tech knowledge you would know that why yes PS4 is design more in the way of brute power whereas the X1 is a bit more of an elegant design with the ESRAM ram and such and the X1 actually has a bit better CPU so in some games it could be a bit better AI or maybe more AI on screen and if developers choose to use the cloud on X1 it could really pull away in some areas so yes the X1 does have some strengths. Also even though the PS4 GPU is stronger the X1 gpu actually can push more polys not saying it can push more polys at 1080p but if it's a huge open world game that has a lot of polys being pushed the X1 can actually maybe push more polys but to be fair most likely can't do it at 1080p but you might see a game with more AI on screen and stuff compared to the PS4 version being the X1 has a slightly better CPU and pushing more polys or if the cloud is used that's a whole nother ball game. For the most part it's all about parity and so much money is involved in making games developers mostly choose to keep both games roughly the same.

So this is why I said with better tools and drivers coming in from MS and developers getting better with the ESRAM ram we should start seeing most games being close to par with each other at 1080p or 900p respectively. Sadly Sony fans I'd imagine are going to be upset when most X1 games are at 900p or 1080p matching most PS4 games they are going to start demanding the PS4 versions be in 1440p LOL

And again we are not seeing big differences we are just seeing 720p vs 1080p and that does not mean it's a huge difference again in fact both BF4 and AC4 actually look slightly better texture wise on the X1 and that's maybe do to DX11.2 tools having slightly better image quality then what tools are being used on PS4 and yes even with that the PS4 version may have a tad better AA from the 1080p resolution but it might be a tad more washed out looking compared to the X1 version. Again just because the game is 1080p does not mean it's going to be the better looking game other factors come into play. Thief 4 should be a good debate being both will be 1080p at 30fps and we shall have to see if the X1 looks slightly better because of better image quality using DX11.2 it should be interesting.

#23 Edited by joshwent (2353 posts) -

just when I thought console wars couldn't continue after the damn things were out...

#24 Posted by DonPixel (2632 posts) -

people that actually care about p's most likely already own a gaming PC (for all the wrong reasons IMHO)

stop caring about this BS = makes your life better.

#25 Posted by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

@joshwent said:

just when I thought console wars couldn't continue after the damn things were out...

Just like Goonies console wars never die

#26 Edited by RonGalaxy (3273 posts) -

Its a ported up last gen game, so it better be 1080p on both.

#27 Posted by CrimsonAvenger (302 posts) -

Why has this game been taking so long? Wasn't this supposed to be released a couple years ago?

#28 Posted by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

Its a ported up last gen game, so it better be 1080p on both.

I think because this game has been in development for a decent amount of time is a good sign and suggest that it's not going to just be a ported up game I think it will have some next gen flair to it on X1/PS4

#29 Posted by rangers517 (214 posts) -

@rangers517 said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@geraltitude said:

I don't see how 1 game being 1080p suddenly means all games will be.

More likely than not we'll see exactly the same thing that happened on 360/PS3. Arcade games and some linear AAA will be 1080, many others will be 720.

No one said all games will be 1080p on X1 what was said is that as expected second and third wave games on X1 many more of them will be do to the fact that MS is bringing dev tools and drivers up to spec and also devs will get more comfortable working with the 32mb ESRAM. By the way Thief 4 is not linear it's kind of open world do as you please kind of gameplay. It's a good sign to things to come. Sure PS4 may have a slight edge in some games and X1 will have an edge in other types of games but as long as the X1 start getting most games in 900p or 1080p I don't think we should worry at all they will all look great. I mean look at RYSE it's the current graphics king and it's 900p

Why would the X1 have a slight edge in any games? We already know the specs. It's not some mystery. The PS4 is more powerful and easier to develop for. We're already seeing bigger differences in multiplat games than we saw for most of last gen. If Ryse was on PS4(or obviously PC) it would have been even better.

It's obvious your a biased PS fan so no matter what PS is god and the almighty lol. But anyway if you had some sort of tech knowledge you would know that why yes PS4 is design more in the way of brute power whereas the X1 is a bit more of an elegant design with the ESRAM ram and such and the X1 actually has a bit better CPU so in some games it could be a bit better AI or maybe more AI on screen and if developers choose to use the cloud on X1 it could really pull away in some areas so yes the X1 does have some strengths. Also even though the PS4 GPU is stronger the X1 gpu actually can push more polys not saying it can push more polys at 1080p but if it's a huge open world game that has a lot of polys being pushed the X1 can actually maybe push more polys but to be fair most likely can't do it at 1080p but you might see a game with more AI on screen and stuff compared to the PS4 version being the X1 has a slightly better CPU and pushing more polys or if the cloud is used that's a whole nother ball game. For the most part it's all about parity and so much money is involved in making games developers mostly choose to keep both games roughly the same.

So this is why I said with better tools and drivers coming in from MS and developers getting better with the ESRAM ram we should start seeing most games being close to par with each other at 1080p or 900p respectively. Sadly Sony fans I'd imagine are going to be upset when most X1 games are at 900p or 1080p matching most PS4 games they are going to start demanding the PS4 versions be in 1440p LOL

And again we are not seeing big differences we are just seeing 720p vs 1080p and that does not mean it's a huge difference again in fact both BF4 and AC4 actually look slightly better texture wise on the X1 and that's maybe do to DX11.2 tools having slightly better image quality then what tools are being used on PS4 and yes even with that the PS4 version may have a tad better AA from the 1080p resolution but it might be a tad more washed out looking compared to the X1 version. Again just because the game is 1080p does not mean it's going to be the better looking game other factors come into play. Thief 4 should be a good debate being both will be 1080p at 30fps and we shall have to see if the X1 looks slightly better because of better image quality using DX11.2 it should be interesting.

What? Pretty much all of this is false. Also, some more info came out recently that shows the PS4 has the better CPU performance too. It's really hard to read your stuff and most of it sounds like the pr fluff Major Nelson and Albert Penello have been spouting that's already been debunked and laughed at.

I think I posted this before but funny quote here from NBA 2k14 senior game designer Mike Wang : "I love the PS4! I‘m a convert. I wasn’t a huge fan of the PS3 controller, but DualShock 4 is amazing, it feels perfect. I love the changes that Sony has done! The machine itself is ridiculous, it’s so powerful, so much easier to develop for. In the office it’s unanimous; we have a couple people who don’t play anything else now, they won’t touch Xbox One. We love the PS4, it’s a great system."

#30 Edited by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

@rangers517 said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@rangers517 said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@geraltitude said:

I don't see how 1 game being 1080p suddenly means all games will be.

More likely than not we'll see exactly the same thing that happened on 360/PS3. Arcade games and some linear AAA will be 1080, many others will be 720.

No one said all games will be 1080p on X1 what was said is that as expected second and third wave games on X1 many more of them will be do to the fact that MS is bringing dev tools and drivers up to spec and also devs will get more comfortable working with the 32mb ESRAM. By the way Thief 4 is not linear it's kind of open world do as you please kind of gameplay. It's a good sign to things to come. Sure PS4 may have a slight edge in some games and X1 will have an edge in other types of games but as long as the X1 start getting most games in 900p or 1080p I don't think we should worry at all they will all look great. I mean look at RYSE it's the current graphics king and it's 900p

Why would the X1 have a slight edge in any games? We already know the specs. It's not some mystery. The PS4 is more powerful and easier to develop for. We're already seeing bigger differences in multiplat games than we saw for most of last gen. If Ryse was on PS4(or obviously PC) it would have been even better.

It's obvious your a biased PS fan so no matter what PS is god and the almighty lol. But anyway if you had some sort of tech knowledge you would know that why yes PS4 is design more in the way of brute power whereas the X1 is a bit more of an elegant design with the ESRAM ram and such and the X1 actually has a bit better CPU so in some games it could be a bit better AI or maybe more AI on screen and if developers choose to use the cloud on X1 it could really pull away in some areas so yes the X1 does have some strengths. Also even though the PS4 GPU is stronger the X1 gpu actually can push more polys not saying it can push more polys at 1080p but if it's a huge open world game that has a lot of polys being pushed the X1 can actually maybe push more polys but to be fair most likely can't do it at 1080p but you might see a game with more AI on screen and stuff compared to the PS4 version being the X1 has a slightly better CPU and pushing more polys or if the cloud is used that's a whole nother ball game. For the most part it's all about parity and so much money is involved in making games developers mostly choose to keep both games roughly the same.

So this is why I said with better tools and drivers coming in from MS and developers getting better with the ESRAM ram we should start seeing most games being close to par with each other at 1080p or 900p respectively. Sadly Sony fans I'd imagine are going to be upset when most X1 games are at 900p or 1080p matching most PS4 games they are going to start demanding the PS4 versions be in 1440p LOL

And again we are not seeing big differences we are just seeing 720p vs 1080p and that does not mean it's a huge difference again in fact both BF4 and AC4 actually look slightly better texture wise on the X1 and that's maybe do to DX11.2 tools having slightly better image quality then what tools are being used on PS4 and yes even with that the PS4 version may have a tad better AA from the 1080p resolution but it might be a tad more washed out looking compared to the X1 version. Again just because the game is 1080p does not mean it's going to be the better looking game other factors come into play. Thief 4 should be a good debate being both will be 1080p at 30fps and we shall have to see if the X1 looks slightly better because of better image quality using DX11.2 it should be interesting.

What? Pretty much all of this is false. Also, some more info came out recently that shows the PS4 has the better CPU performance too. It's really hard to read your stuff and most of it sounds like the pr fluff Major Nelson and Albert Penello have been spouting that's already been debunked and laughed at.

I think I posted this before but funny quote here from NBA 2k14 senior game designer Mike Wang : "I love the PS4! I‘m a convert. I wasn’t a huge fan of the PS3 controller, but DualShock 4 is amazing, it feels perfect. I love the changes that Sony has done! The machine itself is ridiculous, it’s so powerful, so much easier to develop for. In the office it’s unanimous; we have a couple people who don’t play anything else now, they won’t touch Xbox One. We love the PS4, it’s a great system."

So now we trust what a sports game developer has to say not to mention both games are 1080p on both PS4 and X1. As for the recent CPU article it was for one specific scenario that it did well it did not mean for any and every CPU task it was for one specific type of thing they wanted to do and it was one developer doing it so who knows what other developers will do. Again each system has it's plusses and minuses and will be used in different ways. Also more then one developer has said that in most cases the X1 CPU will be the better performer as a whole in many different scenarios not just in one area that this recent developer did with the PS4 CPU

Two of the most respected and legendary developers in the industry John Carmack and Hideo Kijima have both said don't pay much attention to the the internet gossip and from maybe some desperate small time developers looking for attention. They have both said that both X1 and PS4 are basically the same and can do basically the same stuff just they get there and do it in different ways but both are practically on par with each other.

By the way I'll take that exclusive Raiden misson in MGS Ground Zero on X1 over the flashback VR pixal snake mission on PS4 anyway hehe both will be great though I think I saw both version will be 1080p so both should be great

#31 Posted by Disaya (290 posts) -

I love the thief series but I've been a bit hesitant about this one. Most of the reactions I've seen so far haven't been the best but I still want to get it and I'm hoping it's great but I guess were gonna have to wait and see.

#32 Posted by Thedrbrian (66 posts) -

All the games that do hit 1080p on Xbone right now (mostly sports games, which don't have the size and scale of other types of games) had to sacrifice other stuff and have terrible aliasing and usually less effects than the PS4 versions and I expect that'll still be the case for this game. It's just a weak system. There isn't gonna be some magical development tool that makes that go away.

Dude what about the cloud , dude the cloud. Talking about the cloud where is AlexGlass?

Rangers - 1080p versus 720p is massive. Like twice the number of pixels being thrown about.

#33 Edited by LiquidPrince (16185 posts) -

@nsakinect2u said:

@rangers517 said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@geraltitude said:

I don't see how 1 game being 1080p suddenly means all games will be.

More likely than not we'll see exactly the same thing that happened on 360/PS3. Arcade games and some linear AAA will be 1080, many others will be 720.

No one said all games will be 1080p on X1 what was said is that as expected second and third wave games on X1 many more of them will be do to the fact that MS is bringing dev tools and drivers up to spec and also devs will get more comfortable working with the 32mb ESRAM. By the way Thief 4 is not linear it's kind of open world do as you please kind of gameplay. It's a good sign to things to come. Sure PS4 may have a slight edge in some games and X1 will have an edge in other types of games but as long as the X1 start getting most games in 900p or 1080p I don't think we should worry at all they will all look great. I mean look at RYSE it's the current graphics king and it's 900p

Why would the X1 have a slight edge in any games? We already know the specs. It's not some mystery. The PS4 is more powerful and easier to develop for. We're already seeing bigger differences in multiplat games than we saw for most of last gen. If Ryse was on PS4(or obviously PC) it would have been even better.

It's obvious your a biased PS fan so no matter what PS is god and the almighty lol. But anyway if you had some sort of tech knowledge you would know that why yes PS4 is design more in the way of brute power whereas the X1 is a bit more of an elegant design with the ESRAM ram and such and the X1 actually has a bit better CPU so in some games it could be a bit better AI or maybe more AI on screen and if developers choose to use the cloud on X1 it could really pull away in some areas so yes the X1 does have some strengths. Also even though the PS4 GPU is stronger the X1 gpu actually can push more polys not saying it can push more polys at 1080p but if it's a huge open world game that has a lot of polys being pushed the X1 can actually maybe push more polys but to be fair most likely can't do it at 1080p but you might see a game with more AI on screen and stuff compared to the PS4 version being the X1 has a slightly better CPU and pushing more polys or if the cloud is used that's a whole nother ball game. For the most part it's all about parity and so much money is involved in making games developers mostly choose to keep both games roughly the same.

So this is why I said with better tools and drivers coming in from MS and developers getting better with the ESRAM ram we should start seeing most games being close to par with each other at 1080p or 900p respectively. Sadly Sony fans I'd imagine are going to be upset when most X1 games are at 900p or 1080p matching most PS4 games they are going to start demanding the PS4 versions be in 1440p LOL

And again we are not seeing big differences we are just seeing 720p vs 1080p and that does not mean it's a huge difference again in fact both BF4 and AC4 actually look slightly better texture wise on the X1 and that's maybe do to DX11.2 tools having slightly better image quality then what tools are being used on PS4 and yes even with that the PS4 version may have a tad better AA from the 1080p resolution but it might be a tad more washed out looking compared to the X1 version. Again just because the game is 1080p does not mean it's going to be the better looking game other factors come into play. Thief 4 should be a good debate being both will be 1080p at 30fps and we shall have to see if the X1 looks slightly better because of better image quality using DX11.2 it should be interesting.

Pretty much everything you said here was wrong... ESRAM is elegant if you don't know the meaning of the word. It is an evolution of EDRAM from the 360, where the 360 had the lead over PS3 mostly because their RAM was already about the same speed, but the PS3 was split into two pools, making it slower then the unified 360 RAM. Now that the PS4 has a unified pool of RAM same as the X1, it is much better overall. There is no split pool differentiation and PS4 RAM is a lot of faster then the DDR3 the X1 is using. ESRAM then becomes a patchwork design to try and hold it's own with the faster PS4 GDDR5 RAM. The thing you mentioned about the CPU's is also wrong. They're the same CPU with minor clock differences. Nothing that would affect any sort of AI.

As for the higher textures thing at 720P, that is straight up incorrect. Go look at Digital Foundry's comparisons before saying stuff like that.

I personally own both of the consoles right now, so I would love for the X1 stuff to be up to par with the PS4, but the facts that you stated honestly do make you seem more like a fanboy then the people you were calling out as being such.

#34 Edited by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

@liquidprince said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@rangers517 said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@geraltitude said:

I don't see how 1 game being 1080p suddenly means all games will be.

More likely than not we'll see exactly the same thing that happened on 360/PS3. Arcade games and some linear AAA will be 1080, many others will be 720.

No one said all games will be 1080p on X1 what was said is that as expected second and third wave games on X1 many more of them will be do to the fact that MS is bringing dev tools and drivers up to spec and also devs will get more comfortable working with the 32mb ESRAM. By the way Thief 4 is not linear it's kind of open world do as you please kind of gameplay. It's a good sign to things to come. Sure PS4 may have a slight edge in some games and X1 will have an edge in other types of games but as long as the X1 start getting most games in 900p or 1080p I don't think we should worry at all they will all look great. I mean look at RYSE it's the current graphics king and it's 900p

Why would the X1 have a slight edge in any games? We already know the specs. It's not some mystery. The PS4 is more powerful and easier to develop for. We're already seeing bigger differences in multiplat games than we saw for most of last gen. If Ryse was on PS4(or obviously PC) it would have been even better.

It's obvious your a biased PS fan so no matter what PS is god and the almighty lol. But anyway if you had some sort of tech knowledge you would know that why yes PS4 is design more in the way of brute power whereas the X1 is a bit more of an elegant design with the ESRAM ram and such and the X1 actually has a bit better CPU so in some games it could be a bit better AI or maybe more AI on screen and if developers choose to use the cloud on X1 it could really pull away in some areas so yes the X1 does have some strengths. Also even though the PS4 GPU is stronger the X1 gpu actually can push more polys not saying it can push more polys at 1080p but if it's a huge open world game that has a lot of polys being pushed the X1 can actually maybe push more polys but to be fair most likely can't do it at 1080p but you might see a game with more AI on screen and stuff compared to the PS4 version being the X1 has a slightly better CPU and pushing more polys or if the cloud is used that's a whole nother ball game. For the most part it's all about parity and so much money is involved in making games developers mostly choose to keep both games roughly the same.

So this is why I said with better tools and drivers coming in from MS and developers getting better with the ESRAM ram we should start seeing most games being close to par with each other at 1080p or 900p respectively. Sadly Sony fans I'd imagine are going to be upset when most X1 games are at 900p or 1080p matching most PS4 games they are going to start demanding the PS4 versions be in 1440p LOL

And again we are not seeing big differences we are just seeing 720p vs 1080p and that does not mean it's a huge difference again in fact both BF4 and AC4 actually look slightly better texture wise on the X1 and that's maybe do to DX11.2 tools having slightly better image quality then what tools are being used on PS4 and yes even with that the PS4 version may have a tad better AA from the 1080p resolution but it might be a tad more washed out looking compared to the X1 version. Again just because the game is 1080p does not mean it's going to be the better looking game other factors come into play. Thief 4 should be a good debate being both will be 1080p at 30fps and we shall have to see if the X1 looks slightly better because of better image quality using DX11.2 it should be interesting.

Pretty much everything you said here was wrong... ESRAM is elegant if you don't know the meaning of the word. It is an evolution of EDRAM from the 360, where the 360 had the lead over PS3 mostly because their RAM was already about the same speed, but the PS3 was split into two pools, making it slower then the unified 360 RAM. Now that the PS4 has a unified pool of RAM same as the X1, it is much better overall. There is no split pool differentiation and PS4 RAM is a lot of faster then the DDR3 the X1 is using. ESRAM then becomes a patchwork design to try and hold it's own with the faster PS4 GDDR5 RAM. The thing you mentioned about the CPU's is also wrong. They're the same CPU with minor clock differences. Nothing that would affect any sort of AI.

As for the higher textures thing at 720P, that is straight up incorrect. Go look at Digital Foundry's comparisons before saying stuff like that.

I personally own both of the consoles right now, so I would love for the X1 stuff to be up to par with the PS4, but the facts that you stated honestly do make you seem more like a fanboy then the people you were calling out as being such.

We can go back in forth all day long about ram DDr3 vs DDR5 and ESRAM and whatever else. We could start going into the fact that DDR3 has lower latency and in some cases will perform better for certain instances or we could go into the fact that if the ESRAM is used correctly has a lot more bandwidth then PS4 we can go back in forth about all this and in the end it's just a bunch of mumbo jumbo and in the end both systems will end up nearly identical in performance with both getting to the goal in different ways both Carmack and Kijima both say and agree on this.

As for Digital Foundry that's one site if you go look at IGN it the opposite where the X1 version looks better and PS4 version has a slightly more washed out look we could go back in forth all day about this.

In the end most games are going to look nearly identical and in the end most games will end up being 1080p on X1 also as the dev tools get better. It is true that MS made tweaks and completely revamped and updated the GPU drivers for X1 about a month before launch most games by then are already in the going gold process so this is why we are seeing and will see many more games second and third wave games just like Thief being 1080p now.

#35 Edited by rangers517 (214 posts) -

@rangers517 said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@rangers517 said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@geraltitude said:

I don't see how 1 game being 1080p suddenly means all games will be.

More likely than not we'll see exactly the same thing that happened on 360/PS3. Arcade games and some linear AAA will be 1080, many others will be 720.

No one said all games will be 1080p on X1 what was said is that as expected second and third wave games on X1 many more of them will be do to the fact that MS is bringing dev tools and drivers up to spec and also devs will get more comfortable working with the 32mb ESRAM. By the way Thief 4 is not linear it's kind of open world do as you please kind of gameplay. It's a good sign to things to come. Sure PS4 may have a slight edge in some games and X1 will have an edge in other types of games but as long as the X1 start getting most games in 900p or 1080p I don't think we should worry at all they will all look great. I mean look at RYSE it's the current graphics king and it's 900p

Why would the X1 have a slight edge in any games? We already know the specs. It's not some mystery. The PS4 is more powerful and easier to develop for. We're already seeing bigger differences in multiplat games than we saw for most of last gen. If Ryse was on PS4(or obviously PC) it would have been even better.

It's obvious your a biased PS fan so no matter what PS is god and the almighty lol. But anyway if you had some sort of tech knowledge you would know that why yes PS4 is design more in the way of brute power whereas the X1 is a bit more of an elegant design with the ESRAM ram and such and the X1 actually has a bit better CPU so in some games it could be a bit better AI or maybe more AI on screen and if developers choose to use the cloud on X1 it could really pull away in some areas so yes the X1 does have some strengths. Also even though the PS4 GPU is stronger the X1 gpu actually can push more polys not saying it can push more polys at 1080p but if it's a huge open world game that has a lot of polys being pushed the X1 can actually maybe push more polys but to be fair most likely can't do it at 1080p but you might see a game with more AI on screen and stuff compared to the PS4 version being the X1 has a slightly better CPU and pushing more polys or if the cloud is used that's a whole nother ball game. For the most part it's all about parity and so much money is involved in making games developers mostly choose to keep both games roughly the same.

So this is why I said with better tools and drivers coming in from MS and developers getting better with the ESRAM ram we should start seeing most games being close to par with each other at 1080p or 900p respectively. Sadly Sony fans I'd imagine are going to be upset when most X1 games are at 900p or 1080p matching most PS4 games they are going to start demanding the PS4 versions be in 1440p LOL

And again we are not seeing big differences we are just seeing 720p vs 1080p and that does not mean it's a huge difference again in fact both BF4 and AC4 actually look slightly better texture wise on the X1 and that's maybe do to DX11.2 tools having slightly better image quality then what tools are being used on PS4 and yes even with that the PS4 version may have a tad better AA from the 1080p resolution but it might be a tad more washed out looking compared to the X1 version. Again just because the game is 1080p does not mean it's going to be the better looking game other factors come into play. Thief 4 should be a good debate being both will be 1080p at 30fps and we shall have to see if the X1 looks slightly better because of better image quality using DX11.2 it should be interesting.

What? Pretty much all of this is false. Also, some more info came out recently that shows the PS4 has the better CPU performance too. It's really hard to read your stuff and most of it sounds like the pr fluff Major Nelson and Albert Penello have been spouting that's already been debunked and laughed at.

I think I posted this before but funny quote here from NBA 2k14 senior game designer Mike Wang : "I love the PS4! I‘m a convert. I wasn’t a huge fan of the PS3 controller, but DualShock 4 is amazing, it feels perfect. I love the changes that Sony has done! The machine itself is ridiculous, it’s so powerful, so much easier to develop for. In the office it’s unanimous; we have a couple people who don’t play anything else now, they won’t touch Xbox One. We love the PS4, it’s a great system."

So now we trust what a sports game developer has to say not to mention both games are 1080p on both PS4 and X1. As for the recent CPU article it was for one specific scenario that it did well it did not mean for any and every CPU task it was for one specific type of thing they wanted to do and it was one developer doing it so who knows what other developers will do. Again each system has it's plusses and minuses and will be used in different ways. Also more then one developer has said that in most cases the X1 CPU will be the better performer as a whole in many different scenarios not just in one area that this recent developer did with the PS4 CPU

Two of the most respected and legendary developers in the industry John Carmack and Hideo Kijima have both said don't pay much attention to the the internet gossip and from maybe some desperate small time developers looking for attention. They have both said that both X1 and PS4 are basically the same and can do basically the same stuff just they get there and do it in different ways but both are practically on par with each other.

By the way I'll take that exclusive Raiden misson in MGS Ground Zero on X1 over the flashback VR pixal snake mission on PS4 anyway hehe

You know, even with all the facts slapping you in the face like the specs, the differences we're already seeing in all these games so far, and with most people having stopped arguing about this stuff already because it's obvious the PS4 is a lot more powerful, you continue to believe this stuff.

I'm not even mad, I'm actually impressed.

#36 Posted by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

@nsakinect2u said:

@rangers517 said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@rangers517 said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@geraltitude said:

I don't see how 1 game being 1080p suddenly means all games will be.

More likely than not we'll see exactly the same thing that happened on 360/PS3. Arcade games and some linear AAA will be 1080, many others will be 720.

No one said all games will be 1080p on X1 what was said is that as expected second and third wave games on X1 many more of them will be do to the fact that MS is bringing dev tools and drivers up to spec and also devs will get more comfortable working with the 32mb ESRAM. By the way Thief 4 is not linear it's kind of open world do as you please kind of gameplay. It's a good sign to things to come. Sure PS4 may have a slight edge in some games and X1 will have an edge in other types of games but as long as the X1 start getting most games in 900p or 1080p I don't think we should worry at all they will all look great. I mean look at RYSE it's the current graphics king and it's 900p

Why would the X1 have a slight edge in any games? We already know the specs. It's not some mystery. The PS4 is more powerful and easier to develop for. We're already seeing bigger differences in multiplat games than we saw for most of last gen. If Ryse was on PS4(or obviously PC) it would have been even better.

It's obvious your a biased PS fan so no matter what PS is god and the almighty lol. But anyway if you had some sort of tech knowledge you would know that why yes PS4 is design more in the way of brute power whereas the X1 is a bit more of an elegant design with the ESRAM ram and such and the X1 actually has a bit better CPU so in some games it could be a bit better AI or maybe more AI on screen and if developers choose to use the cloud on X1 it could really pull away in some areas so yes the X1 does have some strengths. Also even though the PS4 GPU is stronger the X1 gpu actually can push more polys not saying it can push more polys at 1080p but if it's a huge open world game that has a lot of polys being pushed the X1 can actually maybe push more polys but to be fair most likely can't do it at 1080p but you might see a game with more AI on screen and stuff compared to the PS4 version being the X1 has a slightly better CPU and pushing more polys or if the cloud is used that's a whole nother ball game. For the most part it's all about parity and so much money is involved in making games developers mostly choose to keep both games roughly the same.

So this is why I said with better tools and drivers coming in from MS and developers getting better with the ESRAM ram we should start seeing most games being close to par with each other at 1080p or 900p respectively. Sadly Sony fans I'd imagine are going to be upset when most X1 games are at 900p or 1080p matching most PS4 games they are going to start demanding the PS4 versions be in 1440p LOL

And again we are not seeing big differences we are just seeing 720p vs 1080p and that does not mean it's a huge difference again in fact both BF4 and AC4 actually look slightly better texture wise on the X1 and that's maybe do to DX11.2 tools having slightly better image quality then what tools are being used on PS4 and yes even with that the PS4 version may have a tad better AA from the 1080p resolution but it might be a tad more washed out looking compared to the X1 version. Again just because the game is 1080p does not mean it's going to be the better looking game other factors come into play. Thief 4 should be a good debate being both will be 1080p at 30fps and we shall have to see if the X1 looks slightly better because of better image quality using DX11.2 it should be interesting.

What? Pretty much all of this is false. Also, some more info came out recently that shows the PS4 has the better CPU performance too. It's really hard to read your stuff and most of it sounds like the pr fluff Major Nelson and Albert Penello have been spouting that's already been debunked and laughed at.

I think I posted this before but funny quote here from NBA 2k14 senior game designer Mike Wang : "I love the PS4! I‘m a convert. I wasn’t a huge fan of the PS3 controller, but DualShock 4 is amazing, it feels perfect. I love the changes that Sony has done! The machine itself is ridiculous, it’s so powerful, so much easier to develop for. In the office it’s unanimous; we have a couple people who don’t play anything else now, they won’t touch Xbox One. We love the PS4, it’s a great system."

So now we trust what a sports game developer has to say not to mention both games are 1080p on both PS4 and X1. As for the recent CPU article it was for one specific scenario that it did well it did not mean for any and every CPU task it was for one specific type of thing they wanted to do and it was one developer doing it so who knows what other developers will do. Again each system has it's plusses and minuses and will be used in different ways. Also more then one developer has said that in most cases the X1 CPU will be the better performer as a whole in many different scenarios not just in one area that this recent developer did with the PS4 CPU

Two of the most respected and legendary developers in the industry John Carmack and Hideo Kijima have both said don't pay much attention to the the internet gossip and from maybe some desperate small time developers looking for attention. They have both said that both X1 and PS4 are basically the same and can do basically the same stuff just they get there and do it in different ways but both are practically on par with each other.

By the way I'll take that exclusive Raiden misson in MGS Ground Zero on X1 over the flashback VR pixal snake mission on PS4 anyway hehe

You know, even with all the facts slapping you in the face like the specs, the differences we're already seeing in all these games so far, and with most people having stopped arguing about this stuff already because it's obvious the PS4 is a lot more powerful, you continue to believe this stuff.

I'm not even mad, I'm actually impressed.

If you really think the PS4 is a lot more powerful your freaking delusinal. Yes it is more powerful on paper but you need to consider one thing hardware is only as powerful as the software tools that run it and as MS continues to ramp up dev tools the X1 will be doing just fine. There will not be one game that neither system can't do it will just come down to minor resolution and tweaks that developers see fit for each system. Ubisoft had already said they plan to use the cloud for Watchdogs on X1 and made mentions that the X1 version could have more advanced AI and potentially more AI on screen then the PS4 version. Eash system is going to have it's highs and lows and midway through this console cycle both systems will be virtually identical in graphics and resolution with each systems first party studios having their steller standout graphics games.

#37 Posted by pause422 (6249 posts) -

Wow, let the console war nonsense in this thread go, they're both out. There will be good games on both systems, and graphical power is not the end all be all. With that said, it has been said a hundred times before their launch, and now it will be stated again, EVERYONE knows the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbone. This isn't some mystery. Its also not worth getting up in arms over, I'm sorry, what is a FACT.

NO one is a fanboy of something for stating something just the way it is. Get over yourselves. Don't turn into the IGN/Kotaku comments everyone is used to here on the GB forums, please go somewhere else.

#38 Edited by LiquidPrince (16185 posts) -

@nsakinect2u said:

@liquidprince said:

@nsakinect2u said:

It's obvious your a biased PS fan so no matter what PS is god and the almighty lol. But anyway if you had some sort of tech knowledge you would know that why yes PS4 is design more in the way of brute power whereas the X1 is a bit more of an elegant design with the ESRAM ram and such and the X1 actually has a bit better CPU so in some games it could be a bit better AI or maybe more AI on screen and if developers choose to use the cloud on X1 it could really pull away in some areas so yes the X1 does have some strengths. Also even though the PS4 GPU is stronger the X1 gpu actually can push more polys not saying it can push more polys at 1080p but if it's a huge open world game that has a lot of polys being pushed the X1 can actually maybe push more polys but to be fair most likely can't do it at 1080p but you might see a game with more AI on screen and stuff compared to the PS4 version being the X1 has a slightly better CPU and pushing more polys or if the cloud is used that's a whole nother ball game. For the most part it's all about parity and so much money is involved in making games developers mostly choose to keep both games roughly the same.

So this is why I said with better tools and drivers coming in from MS and developers getting better with the ESRAM ram we should start seeing most games being close to par with each other at 1080p or 900p respectively. Sadly Sony fans I'd imagine are going to be upset when most X1 games are at 900p or 1080p matching most PS4 games they are going to start demanding the PS4 versions be in 1440p LOL

And again we are not seeing big differences we are just seeing 720p vs 1080p and that does not mean it's a huge difference again in fact both BF4 and AC4 actually look slightly better texture wise on the X1 and that's maybe do to DX11.2 tools having slightly better image quality then what tools are being used on PS4 and yes even with that the PS4 version may have a tad better AA from the 1080p resolution but it might be a tad more washed out looking compared to the X1 version. Again just because the game is 1080p does not mean it's going to be the better looking game other factors come into play. Thief 4 should be a good debate being both will be 1080p at 30fps and we shall have to see if the X1 looks slightly better because of better image quality using DX11.2 it should be interesting.

Pretty much everything you said here was wrong... ESRAM is elegant if you don't know the meaning of the word. It is an evolution of EDRAM from the 360, where the 360 had the lead over PS3 mostly because their RAM was already about the same speed, but the PS3 was split into two pools, making it slower then the unified 360 RAM. Now that the PS4 has a unified pool of RAM same as the X1, it is much better overall. There is no split pool differentiation and PS4 RAM is a lot of faster then the DDR3 the X1 is using. ESRAM then becomes a patchwork design to try and hold it's own with the faster PS4 GDDR5 RAM. The thing you mentioned about the CPU's is also wrong. They're the same CPU with minor clock differences. Nothing that would affect any sort of AI.

As for the higher textures thing at 720P, that is straight up incorrect. Go look at Digital Foundry's comparisons before saying stuff like that.

I personally own both of the consoles right now, so I would love for the X1 stuff to be up to par with the PS4, but the facts that you stated honestly do make you seem more like a fanboy then the people you were calling out as being such.

We can go back in forth all day long about ram DDr3 vs DDR5 and ESRAM and whatever else. We could start going into the fact that DDR3 has lower latency and in some cases will perform better for certain instances or we could go into the fact that if the ESRAM is used correctly has a lot more bandwidth then PS4 we can go back in forth about all this and in the end it's just a bunch of mumbo jumbo and in the end both systems will end up nearly identical in performance with both getting to the goal in different ways both Carmack and Kijima both say and agree on this.

As for Digital Foundry that's one site if you go look at IGN it the opposite where the X1 version looks better and PS4 version has a slightly more washed out look we could go back in forth all day about this.

In the end most games are going to look nearly identical and in the end most games will end up being 1080p on X1 also as the dev tools get better. It is true that MS made tweaks and completely revamped and updated the GPU drivers for X1 about a month before launch most games by then are already in the going gold process so this is why we are seeing and will see many more games second and third wave games just like Thief being 1080p now.

We COULD go back and forth, but you would be wrong. GDDR5 has more latency under regular CPU/GPU combinations. The answer to that latency was the APU solution. By having the RAM be on the same board as the CPU and GPU you reduce any latency that you would face between a regular PC setup. It's what Cerny was refering to when he called the PS4 a supercharged computer. It's not that the PS4 is necessarily more powerful then modern high end PC's, but rather that it was crafted to be the most efficient at doing what it does, more so then a multipurpose PC.

IGN is not of the same class as Digital Foundry, whose whole purpose it to create comparisons between the consoles. IGN is more opinionated, where as Digital Foundry is more scientific in its comparisons. Also if a game runs in 720P it's physically impossible for the textures to look better because you're being limited by the resolution being presented. Lets say the texture was painted at a 1600x900 resolution, which is considered pretty high for a single texture batch, if your screen is limiting visible detail to 1280x720, then you are not getting the full view of that texture. Since most games running on the next gen consoles are using the same assets, it becomes difficult for the X1 to look as good as the PS4 counterpart if there is a resolution difference.

As for the dev tool comment, you're assuming that the PS4 dev tools aren't going to continue getting better at the same rate as the X1 tools. It's not like the PS4 team is like, "yup we're done. This is as good as it gets." PS4 tools will continue to grow as well.

#40 Posted by Humanity (10145 posts) -

People kind of shitted over Deadly Shadows because it was designed for consoles foremost and had smaller levels but in my opinion it was the best Thief to date.

So I'm holding out hope for this one.

#41 Edited by LiquidPrince (16185 posts) -

@liquidprince said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@liquidprince said:

@nsakinect2u said:

It's obvious your a biased PS fan so no matter what PS is god and the almighty lol. But anyway if you had some sort of tech knowledge you would know that why yes PS4 is design more in the way of brute power whereas the X1 is a bit more of an elegant design with the ESRAM ram and such and the X1 actually has a bit better CPU so in some games it could be a bit better AI or maybe more AI on screen and if developers choose to use the cloud on X1 it could really pull away in some areas so yes the X1 does have some strengths. Also even though the PS4 GPU is stronger the X1 gpu actually can push more polys not saying it can push more polys at 1080p but if it's a huge open world game that has a lot of polys being pushed the X1 can actually maybe push more polys but to be fair most likely can't do it at 1080p but you might see a game with more AI on screen and stuff compared to the PS4 version being the X1 has a slightly better CPU and pushing more polys or if the cloud is used that's a whole nother ball game. For the most part it's all about parity and so much money is involved in making games developers mostly choose to keep both games roughly the same.

So this is why I said with better tools and drivers coming in from MS and developers getting better with the ESRAM ram we should start seeing most games being close to par with each other at 1080p or 900p respectively. Sadly Sony fans I'd imagine are going to be upset when most X1 games are at 900p or 1080p matching most PS4 games they are going to start demanding the PS4 versions be in 1440p LOL

And again we are not seeing big differences we are just seeing 720p vs 1080p and that does not mean it's a huge difference again in fact both BF4 and AC4 actually look slightly better texture wise on the X1 and that's maybe do to DX11.2 tools having slightly better image quality then what tools are being used on PS4 and yes even with that the PS4 version may have a tad better AA from the 1080p resolution but it might be a tad more washed out looking compared to the X1 version. Again just because the game is 1080p does not mean it's going to be the better looking game other factors come into play. Thief 4 should be a good debate being both will be 1080p at 30fps and we shall have to see if the X1 looks slightly better because of better image quality using DX11.2 it should be interesting.

Pretty much everything you said here was wrong... ESRAM is elegant if you don't know the meaning of the word. It is an evolution of EDRAM from the 360, where the 360 had the lead over PS3 mostly because their RAM was already about the same speed, but the PS3 was split into two pools, making it slower then the unified 360 RAM. Now that the PS4 has a unified pool of RAM same as the X1, it is much better overall. There is no split pool differentiation and PS4 RAM is a lot of faster then the DDR3 the X1 is using. ESRAM then becomes a patchwork design to try and hold it's own with the faster PS4 GDDR5 RAM. The thing you mentioned about the CPU's is also wrong. They're the same CPU with minor clock differences. Nothing that would affect any sort of AI.

As for the higher textures thing at 720P, that is straight up incorrect. Go look at Digital Foundry's comparisons before saying stuff like that.

I personally own both of the consoles right now, so I would love for the X1 stuff to be up to par with the PS4, but the facts that you stated honestly do make you seem more like a fanboy then the people you were calling out as being such.

We can go back in forth all day long about ram DDr3 vs DDR5 and ESRAM and whatever else. We could start going into the fact that DDR3 has lower latency and in some cases will perform better for certain instances or we could go into the fact that if the ESRAM is used correctly has a lot more bandwidth then PS4 we can go back in forth about all this and in the end it's just a bunch of mumbo jumbo and in the end both systems will end up nearly identical in performance with both getting to the goal in different ways both Carmack and Kijima both say and agree on this.

As for Digital Foundry that's one site if you go look at IGN it the opposite where the X1 version looks better and PS4 version has a slightly more washed out look we could go back in forth all day about this.

In the end most games are going to look nearly identical and in the end most games will end up being 1080p on X1 also as the dev tools get better. It is true that MS made tweaks and completely revamped and updated the GPU drivers for X1 about a month before launch most games by then are already in the going gold process so this is why we are seeing and will see many more games second and third wave games just like Thief being 1080p now.

We COULD go back and forth, but you would be wrong. GDDR5 has more latency under regular CPU/GPU combinations. The answer to that latency was the APU solution. By having the RAM be on the same board as the CPU and GPU you reduce any latency that you would face between a regular PC setup. It's what Cerny was refering to when he called the PS4 a supercharged computer. It's not that the PS4 is necessarily more powerful then modern high end PC's, but rather that it was crafted to be the most efficient at doing what it does, more so then a multipurpose PC.

IGN is not of the same class as Digital Foundry, whose whole purpose it to create comparisons between the consoles. IGN is more opinionated, where as Digital Foundry is more scientific in its comparisons. Also if a game runs in 720P it's physically impossible for the textures to look better because you're being limited by the resolution being presented. Lets say the texture was painted at a 1600x900 resolution, which is considered pretty high for a single texture batch, if your screen is limiting visible detail to 1280x720, then you are not getting the full view of that texture. Since most games running on the next gen consoles are using the same assets, it becomes difficult for the X1 to look as good as the PS4 counterpart if there is a resolution difference.

As for the dev tool comment, you're assuming that the PS4 dev tools aren't going to continue getting better at the same rate as the X1 tools. It's not like the PS4 team is like, "yup we're done. This is as good as it gets." PS4 tools will continue to grow as well.

Sure DF is the all be right even though they completely botched the PS4 X1 BF4 comparison sure ok so DF is the god of comparisons yes ok sure got it rolls eyes. As for IGN they never even say who's game looked better they just showed a video and let you decide for yourself? Go look at the AC4 comparison you can clearly see the X1 version has slightly better image quality especially on the charators faces you can see the PS4 version looks a tad washed out compared to the X1. This is mostly because DX11.2 just offers a tad better image quality most likely no big deal though I'll give the slightly better AA to PS4 so it's pick your poison really.

And yes you can have better looking texture even with lower res for the same reason if the software tools the engine is running on offers just better image quality overall like maybe DX11.2 does then yes it can look better. None the less PC DESTROYS both PS4 and X1 easily so that pedophile looking weirdo speaking Cerny saying PS4 is a super charged PC is basically just like you saying Major Nelson blows BS.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/11/22/assassins-creed-4-xbox-one-vs-ps4-graphics-comparison

Can you please stop saying DX11.2 when you don't actually know what it is or does... I'm not going to argue with you if you think the X1 looks better. Good for you, if you think it does. Most sources that did comparisons say that games that are running at lower resolution and then scaled up on the X1 look extra bad at the moment because the scaling process that Mircrosoft is using adds extra sharpening which results in ugly halo effects around everything. This was especially evident in the Digital Foundry comparison of Assassin's Creed.

I get it. You spent your money on a X1 and don't want to feel like you made a bad choice. But the bolded/underlined comment you made above makes you sound like an immature kid. Seriously, just stop, if you can't have a discussion without resorting to stupid name calling.

#42 Posted by Sinusoidal (1824 posts) -

This thread is awesome.

I don't have much hope for Thief 4. I loved the first two, but that was a different time. The stealth genre has changed drastically since then.

#43 Edited by Starfishhunter9 (369 posts) -

Links broken in OP for me. Leads to blank page

#45 Posted by impartialgecko (1689 posts) -

Amazing. That totally makes up for all the pre-release coverage of the actual gameplay looking like complete rubbish.

#46 Posted by Darji (5293 posts) -

This thread is awesome.

I don't have much hope for Thief 4. I loved the first two, but that was a different time. The stealth genre has changed drastically since then.

That is why its also different and also borrows from Dishonored which borrowed things from the original Thief. Right now I think we have a DMC Situation upon us but luckily I really really enjoyed DMC^^

#47 Posted by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

@nsakinect2u said:

@liquidprince said:

@nsakinect2u said:

@liquidprince said:

@nsakinect2u said:

It's obvious your a biased PS fan so no matter what PS is god and the almighty lol. But anyway if you had some sort of tech knowledge you would know that why yes PS4 is design more in the way of brute power whereas the X1 is a bit more of an elegant design with the ESRAM ram and such and the X1 actually has a bit better CPU so in some games it could be a bit better AI or maybe more AI on screen and if developers choose to use the cloud on X1 it could really pull away in some areas so yes the X1 does have some strengths. Also even though the PS4 GPU is stronger the X1 gpu actually can push more polys not saying it can push more polys at 1080p but if it's a huge open world game that has a lot of polys being pushed the X1 can actually maybe push more polys but to be fair most likely can't do it at 1080p but you might see a game with more AI on screen and stuff compared to the PS4 version being the X1 has a slightly better CPU and pushing more polys or if the cloud is used that's a whole nother ball game. For the most part it's all about parity and so much money is involved in making games developers mostly choose to keep both games roughly the same.

So this is why I said with better tools and drivers coming in from MS and developers getting better with the ESRAM ram we should start seeing most games being close to par with each other at 1080p or 900p respectively. Sadly Sony fans I'd imagine are going to be upset when most X1 games are at 900p or 1080p matching most PS4 games they are going to start demanding the PS4 versions be in 1440p LOL

And again we are not seeing big differences we are just seeing 720p vs 1080p and that does not mean it's a huge difference again in fact both BF4 and AC4 actually look slightly better texture wise on the X1 and that's maybe do to DX11.2 tools having slightly better image quality then what tools are being used on PS4 and yes even with that the PS4 version may have a tad better AA from the 1080p resolution but it might be a tad more washed out looking compared to the X1 version. Again just because the game is 1080p does not mean it's going to be the better looking game other factors come into play. Thief 4 should be a good debate being both will be 1080p at 30fps and we shall have to see if the X1 looks slightly better because of better image quality using DX11.2 it should be interesting.

Pretty much everything you said here was wrong... ESRAM is elegant if you don't know the meaning of the word. It is an evolution of EDRAM from the 360, where the 360 had the lead over PS3 mostly because their RAM was already about the same speed, but the PS3 was split into two pools, making it slower then the unified 360 RAM. Now that the PS4 has a unified pool of RAM same as the X1, it is much better overall. There is no split pool differentiation and PS4 RAM is a lot of faster then the DDR3 the X1 is using. ESRAM then becomes a patchwork design to try and hold it's own with the faster PS4 GDDR5 RAM. The thing you mentioned about the CPU's is also wrong. They're the same CPU with minor clock differences. Nothing that would affect any sort of AI.

As for the higher textures thing at 720P, that is straight up incorrect. Go look at Digital Foundry's comparisons before saying stuff like that.

I personally own both of the consoles right now, so I would love for the X1 stuff to be up to par with the PS4, but the facts that you stated honestly do make you seem more like a fanboy then the people you were calling out as being such.

We can go back in forth all day long about ram DDr3 vs DDR5 and ESRAM and whatever else. We could start going into the fact that DDR3 has lower latency and in some cases will perform better for certain instances or we could go into the fact that if the ESRAM is used correctly has a lot more bandwidth then PS4 we can go back in forth about all this and in the end it's just a bunch of mumbo jumbo and in the end both systems will end up nearly identical in performance with both getting to the goal in different ways both Carmack and Kijima both say and agree on this.

As for Digital Foundry that's one site if you go look at IGN it the opposite where the X1 version looks better and PS4 version has a slightly more washed out look we could go back in forth all day about this.

In the end most games are going to look nearly identical and in the end most games will end up being 1080p on X1 also as the dev tools get better. It is true that MS made tweaks and completely revamped and updated the GPU drivers for X1 about a month before launch most games by then are already in the going gold process so this is why we are seeing and will see many more games second and third wave games just like Thief being 1080p now.

We COULD go back and forth, but you would be wrong. GDDR5 has more latency under regular CPU/GPU combinations. The answer to that latency was the APU solution. By having the RAM be on the same board as the CPU and GPU you reduce any latency that you would face between a regular PC setup. It's what Cerny was refering to when he called the PS4 a supercharged computer. It's not that the PS4 is necessarily more powerful then modern high end PC's, but rather that it was crafted to be the most efficient at doing what it does, more so then a multipurpose PC.

IGN is not of the same class as Digital Foundry, whose whole purpose it to create comparisons between the consoles. IGN is more opinionated, where as Digital Foundry is more scientific in its comparisons. Also if a game runs in 720P it's physically impossible for the textures to look better because you're being limited by the resolution being presented. Lets say the texture was painted at a 1600x900 resolution, which is considered pretty high for a single texture batch, if your screen is limiting visible detail to 1280x720, then you are not getting the full view of that texture. Since most games running on the next gen consoles are using the same assets, it becomes difficult for the X1 to look as good as the PS4 counterpart if there is a resolution difference.

As for the dev tool comment, you're assuming that the PS4 dev tools aren't going to continue getting better at the same rate as the X1 tools. It's not like the PS4 team is like, "yup we're done. This is as good as it gets." PS4 tools will continue to grow as well.

Sure DF is the all be right even though they completely botched the PS4 X1 BF4 comparison sure ok so DF is the god of comparisons yes ok sure got it rolls eyes. As for IGN they never even say who's game looked better they just showed a video and let you decide for yourself? Go look at the AC4 comparison you can clearly see the X1 version has slightly better image quality especially on the charators faces you can see the PS4 version looks a tad washed out compared to the X1. This is mostly because DX11.2 just offers a tad better image quality most likely no big deal though I'll give the slightly better AA to PS4 so it's pick your poison really.

And yes you can have better looking texture even with lower res for the same reason if the software tools the engine is running on offers just better image quality overall like maybe DX11.2 does then yes it can look better. None the less PC DESTROYS both PS4 and X1 easily so that pedophile looking weirdo speaking Cerny saying PS4 is a super charged PC is basically just like you saying Major Nelson blows BS.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/11/22/assassins-creed-4-xbox-one-vs-ps4-graphics-comparison

Can you please stop saying DX11.2 when you don't actually know what it is or does... I'm not going to argue with you if you think the X1 looks better. Good for you, if you think it does. Most sources that did comparisons say that games that are running at lower resolution and then scaled up on the X1 look extra bad at the moment because the scaling process that Mircrosoft is using adds extra sharpening which results in ugly halo effects around everything. This was especially evident in the Digital Foundry comparison of Assassin's Creed.

I get it. You spent your money on a X1 and don't want to feel like you made a bad choice. But the bolded/underlined comment you made above makes you sound like an immature kid. Seriously, just stop, if you can't have a discussion without resorting to stupid name calling.

First off I started this thread merely saying the X1 will be 1080p just like the PS4 version of Thief and I said tha5t as I expected and many with some realistic knowledge should know that moving forward many more X1 games should be 1080p as MS is going to be bringing dev tools up to speed and they will also unlock an additional 10% power from the GPU in the near future and devs will start to find ways to use the ESRAM ram more efficiently so having 1080p games on X1 is going to be more common in titles coming up in the near future.

As for DX11.2 I do know what I'm saying and it's the more common tool used by most developers being PC games and all games are developed on PC anyway and I've also played PC games basically since DX 6.

Also yes Dishonored is a freaking awesome game gave me a Half Life and Deus Ex mixed vibe at times and that's freaking intense so I have high hopes for Thief 4 as I've looked at it closely and it seems to have a great steamy punk turn of the century dark vibe to it with similar gameplay and awesome stealing gameplay. Dishonored stole a bit from the original Thief games and Thief is stealing it right back so it's all freaking good.

#48 Posted by joshwent (2353 posts) -

...so that pedophile looking weirdo speaking Cerny...

Alrighty Mr. Kinect, you just lost all credibility.

#49 Posted by nsakinect2u (22 posts) -

@joshwent said:

@nsakinect2u said:

...so that pedophile looking weirdo speaking Cerny...

Alrighty Mr. Kinect, you just lost all credibility.

Oh come on you know it's true

#50 Posted by Sergio (2262 posts) -

Welcome back, AlexGlass.