• 74 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by Blu3V3nom07 (4137 posts) -

The Verge: Forums: Microsoft Tribe: Microsoft Asking Developers About An Increase In RAM And GPU Clock Speeds For The Xbox One

https://xboxuncut.squarespace.com/microsoft-asking-developers-about-an-increased-gpu-clock-and-an-increase-to-12-gb-of-ram/

So, I still don't understand quite too well. My head is still gonna be dizzy for like a week, Nothing about what happened today. But apparently Microsoft is asking developers what changes they would like to see as an increase in the XONE. They seem to have a choice of sort for:

  • An increase in RAM, from 8GB to 12GB
  • An increase in GPU clock speed
  • Or "another thing on the list was storage for ‘tombstoning’ - I’m guessing flash cache)"

And at I guess from this forum guy, explains a tiny bit better:

"One thing to note is that apparently the XB1 engineers overcompensated for heat in their design, and have found that the XB1 runs cooler than expected under load. Upon realising this, they've given developers a choice to choose between having more RAM, or a faster GPU clock speed, as they can't accommodate for both. I really hope we get both though."

So, that's pretty cool I guess. Thoughts?

#2 Posted by Slaegar (686 posts) -

Overcompensating for heat is pretty a good idea considering what happened last time. The extra RAM will probably do them a bit better if the rumors of a large amount of the RAM being used for the OS is true. I doubt they will risk raising the GPU clock speed a meaningful amount unless it was massively downclocked and they just plan to bring it back up to normal. GPU clock speed would be cheaper for them if they can get them all running stable, but DDR3 RAM doesn't exactly break the bank these days either.

#3 Posted by Viking_Funeral (1727 posts) -

I would do anything to see those presale numbers at this point.

It looks like Microsoft is preparing for an underdog war this gen, which is really what they should have done the whole time. Competition is always good for the consumer. I like they spin they are putting on this, but it really is a desperate move to change hardware this late in the game, especially if not adding that hardware would have kept a lower cost and increased profit per unit sold.

Again, good news, if it's true. I want to see another hardcore console war (for the consumer).

#4 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

How is this possible so close to release?

#5 Edited by connerthekewlkid (1799 posts) -

@viking_funeral said:

Again, good news, if it's true. I want to see another hardcore console war (for the consumer).

But that also comes at the price of the forums.

#6 Posted by xyzygy (9868 posts) -

This is pretty awesome. But isn't 12 GB overkill?

#7 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@xyzygy said:

This is pretty awesome. But isn't 12 GB overkill?

It seems it would be a way to brute force the Ram difference.

#8 Posted by TyCobb (1944 posts) -

How is this possible so close to release?

That's what I am wondering if the RAM option is true. I wouldn't expect there to be a free RAM slot to go 3x4GB sticks and I would not expect them to have a 1x8GB and 1x4GB stick (that would just be odd to do).

The clock speed could be a BIOS flash, but I would presume it would be a very slow process if they already have a lot of the console boxed in a warehouse. Perhaps included in the day 1 update? Get ready for some bricked console right off the bat.

#9 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

I wonder if they can pull it off by throwing a lot of money at the wall.

#10 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (4137 posts) -

I wonder if they can pull it off by throwing a lot of money at the wall.

Uhm, sure maybe. I thought that MS was supposed to meet up on Sunday to change up their ranks, as the rumor was. So that Green would be head of 'Devices,' and such now. But I guess that Still hasn't got announced yet.

#11 Edited by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

Its also probably because they were going to put out a low end system ala the Xbox360 vs the PS3 but started losing the war early. So they are trying to ride closer to the line cost wise, and be more competitive with the PS4 specs wise.

So basically the choice is

  • less time before each loading screen.
  • faster load screens ( but by how much, who knows )
#12 Edited by Silver-Streak (1328 posts) -

The problem right now is that if they increase the clock speed on the GPU, the PS4 will still have 50% more GPU cores, so unless they increase the GPU cycles by a TREMENDOUS amount, it wouldn't compensate for that difference.

As far as the ram, no matter how much amount of ram they increase, they still have a much worse off memory bandwidth than the PS4, too.

#13 Edited by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

@eujin said:

The problem right now is that if they increase the clock speed on the GPU, the PS4 will still have 50% more GPU cores, so unless they increase the GPU cycles by a TREMENDOUS amount, it wouldn't compensate for that difference.

As far as the ram, no matter how much amount of ram they increase, they still have a much worse off memory bandwidth than the PS4, too.

I also imagine that Sony is taking a huge loss on the PS4. just to make sure they are the console leader.

#14 Posted by Starfishhunter9 (369 posts) -

@dagbiker: How is overclocking the gpu gonna affect load screens in any meaningful way?

@eujin said:

The problem right now is that if they increase the clock speed on the GPU, the PS4 will still have 50% more GPU cores, so unless they increase the GPU cycles by a TREMENDOUS amount, it wouldn't compensate for that difference.

As far as the ram, no matter how much amount of ram they increase, they still have a much worse off memory bandwidth than the PS4, too.

The multi platform nature of most titles probably means that the difference won't be as apparent in games. So basically microsoft will hold back the next generations games.

#15 Posted by EXTomar (4446 posts) -

The way these devices are built have to be designed several months/year in advance. To suddenly do "oh double the RAM" would mean all of that physical stuff they've made now is junk putting the division in the red without selling a single thing.

#16 Edited by Silver-Streak (1328 posts) -

@starfishhunter9: Not quite. With the architecture being so similar, we're talking the difference of programming for a Core 2 Duo e series CPU and a i7. Same type of instructions, just noticeably more power available for it.

Edit: For comparison, previously it was like coding between a Core 2 duo on Windows 7, and a Mac Power PC processor.

#17 Edited by PeasantAbuse (5137 posts) -

What happened to the Infinite Power of the Cloud?

#18 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

So just a rumor then I guess...

#19 Posted by tourgen (4426 posts) -

wouldn't they be in production on the main PCBs by now? I could see a mod to increase the clock speed. that would be really cool. new boards with more memory seems craaaaaazy at this point though.

anyway, anything to up the xbone's baseline performance will up the minimum spec on cross-platform games to some degree. Everyone wins.

#20 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@tourgen said:

wouldn't they be in production on the main PCBs by now? I could see a mod to increase the clock speed. that would be really cool. new boards with more memory seems craaaaaazy at this point though.

anyway, anything to up the xbone's baseline performance will up the minimum spec on cross-platform games to some degree. Everyone wins.

Neo Gaf has not even touched this. I think it might just be fake.

#21 Posted by Jay_Ray (1069 posts) -

@dagbiker: Nope, according to Pachter (who crunched the numbers for his actual job) it should cost Sony about $275 to make a PS4 and MS about $325 (including Kinect). I believe these numbers are for materials only and not the manufacturing of the machines but even with that the consoles look like they'll be profitable right out of the gate.

#22 Edited by isomeri (1217 posts) -

How is this possible so close to release?

Adding more RAM seems quite possible. There have been no reports as of yet that manufacturing has started and RAM is quite cheap and easy to add to the motherboard.

#23 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@isomeri said:

@the_laughing_man said:

How is this possible so close to release?

Adding more RAM seems quite possible. There have been no reports as of yet that manufacturing has started and RAM is quite cheap and easy to add to the motherboard.

What would adding that much ram gain them?

#24 Posted by Syed117 (387 posts) -

Simply boosting the GPU clock is probably the easiest option. Ideally They should just do all three. They need all the help they can get.

They changed the amount of ram in the 360 before it was released. That's probably not too hard and definitely won't cost too much. If they push it to twelve, they will basically offset the entire OS ram cost and leave a complete 8gb for games at the very least. It is overkill and won't matter now, but it will make a difference later in the life cycle.

Would be nice if these rumors were true. Any spec upgrade can only be a good thing.

#25 Posted by THRICE_604 (210 posts) -

Changing the hardware at the literal last possible moment seems like a really bad idea. You would think MS after most of the 360's life span would be more committed to making as solid reliable hardware as possible. Not suddenly making changes at the last second.

#26 Edited by EvilNiGHTS (1093 posts) -

Supposing it's true, I'd rather they do nothing. Runs cooler than expected? Good, because that was kind of a problem last time.

#27 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

How is this possible so close to release?

It is not. Unless they will rush it out of the door and then you will have problems. If they do it expect a delay.

#28 Edited by Akyho (1584 posts) -

When the XBone was unveiled and there was all those mock ups and the colour coded block design for the Xbox with is all its components. I saw over half of it was dedicated to cooling. 3/4 of the top of the case is a grill for one giant fan.

They were obsessed with making it low power.

I thought they were overdoing it and they did. However such significant hardware changes this late is going to be a doozey. But then...they have a smaller load of Consoles to sell in the projected sales and what it stocked.

They are already screeching the tires to get the console to stop on a month within the "Holidays" and better yet trying to screech into November.

This sounds like a risky move....but do they need to pull such a risky move? It would be all or nothing.

#29 Posted by datarez (538 posts) -

If the rumors are true about the overhead all the windows 8 sidebar is costing in the actual ram available for games, I'd think upping the ram to 12gb would help a lot. It's good to see them trying again if this is true.

#30 Edited by Annath (5 posts) -

I can't see this as anything but a rumour.

No changes they make now are going to have a big enough impact on the performance gap to justify the monetary and logistical headache of changing components this late in development.

Not to mention the fact that all the launch games are being developed with current specs in mind, so any benefits to this reworking of hardware won't affect launch software sales.

#31 Posted by Jimbo (9769 posts) -

Throw another billion transistors in there.

#32 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@annath said:

I can't see this as anything but a rumour.

No changes they make now are going to have a big enough impact on the performance gap to justify the monetary and logistical headache of changing components this late in development.

Not to mention the fact that all the launch games are being developed with current specs in mind, so any benefits to this reworking of hardware won't affect launch software sales.

Unless the final system all ready had that updated stuff and MS was trying to keep it on the low....doubt that however.

So the dev kits all ready have 12 gigs of ram? Maybe it really is as simple as sticking more ram in there.

#33 Posted by Nhoj_Sllew (173 posts) -

more RAM and a faster clock speed are both easy changes that extend the life of the console, give them a nice bullet point, and are something developers would really want.

pretty much a win for everyone.


i would guess they will go for the memory

#34 Posted by Hunkulese (2628 posts) -

People are really overestimating how hard it is to add more ram. Mass production hasn't started yet and it's not a big deal to make small changes at this point.

This goes back to how most of you have never been through a console launch before. It's not uncommon for stuff to get changed at the last minute. What gets announced is rarely exactly what ships. At least it's better than the VITA which had RAM removed at the last minute.

#35 Edited by Syed117 (387 posts) -

Same with the ps3. When it was first announced it was going to have dual hdmi out and a bunch of other things that were cut for the production model.

Adding ram and increasing clock speeds is not difficult. 12gb would be great if they make it happen.

#36 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

The more I read about it the more it sounds like they are gonna use the dev model for release model. I guess they thought that model would run hot but it did not and they are gonna go with that and maybe up clock some stuff.

But I just want the damn things to come out.

On a side note. What exactly would it mean if they up the ram to 12 gigs?

#37 Edited by Bollard (5202 posts) -

I want these damn zebra consoles and controllers:

#38 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7039 posts) -

For a system that's been in development for years, there's no way they could make these changes so close to launch. And since all launch titles are being developed with the current specs in mind, I'd say this is a dead-on-arrival rumor and nothing more.

#39 Posted by jessej07 (213 posts) -

By all means, Microsoft, continue to overcompensate for heat!

#40 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
#41 Edited by shinjin977 (743 posts) -

I am going to go ahead and stake a big FAKE flag on this rumor. The shipping date is 5 months away = the units are already in productions and a lot of the units are probably already made. If this is true they will have to push the release date back at least 6 months. So yea this is fake unless Microsoft come out at Gamescon and delay the system.

Also Microsoft is already having problem with stock shortage, I don't think they can afford to change any hardware (unless they are OCing stuff, in which case, no thank you)

#42 Posted by isomeri (1217 posts) -

@isomeri said:

@the_laughing_man said:

How is this possible so close to release?

Adding more RAM seems quite possible. There have been no reports as of yet that manufacturing has started and RAM is quite cheap and easy to add to the motherboard.

What would adding that much ram gain them?

I ain't no scientist but according what I've read from developers is that tons of RAM makes game development a whole lot easier. Essentially you don't have to spend as much time optimizing your game when you can just load huge chunks of it onto the RAM. They would also have an easier time justifying the higher price if they could claim to be the more powerful console, even if it weren't entirely true.

And from what I understand changing the clock-speed on an CPU or GPU would affect how many chips are produced and the reliability of those chips. Two things which are a huge concern at the time of launch.

#43 Edited by shinjin977 (743 posts) -

@mariachimacabre: they did it with 360

I am all for leveling the playing field but unless they want a repeat of RRod a 4-6 months period of QA is needed. This upgrade is not possible, unless we are talking about minor OCing stuff. In which case, they will also want to QA that too and seeing as how units are already being manufactured, I don't think this is at all possible.

What they need to do is create and sustain a better online service, not last minute upgrade. Last minute upgrade lead to unpredictable scenario and if there's one thing Microsoft don't need its another hardware stability issue.

#44 Posted by MikkaQ (10263 posts) -

I'd probably prefer the device stayed overcompensated for heat. That way I could put it under the TV in the stand and not worry too much about overheating it.

#45 Edited by Syed117 (387 posts) -

I don't think heat will be an issue this time around. Have you seen the size of that fan? It's ridiculous.

Also, final production hasn't begun yet. Maybe some of the components are done, but not final assembly. Not even close. You have to realize how many units of major electronics a place like Foxconn can churn out. For perspective, Foxconn manufactures 125,000 to 150,000 iPhones every single day.

#46 Posted by JasonR86 (9587 posts) -

Appeal?

#47 Edited by Syed117 (387 posts) -

Here's another thing to consider if you think production has already started.

The Xbox 360 went into production 69 days before launch. That was 8 years ago and the electronics manufacturing industry is significantly larger and more diverse now than it was then.

Who knows if it will happen. We will know soon enough.

#48 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@syed117 said:

Here's another thing to consider if you think production has already started.

The Xbox 360 went into production 69 days before launch. That was 8 years ago and the electronics manufacturing industry is significantly larger and more diverse now than it was then.

Who knows if it will happen. We will know soon enough.

Ive heard the rumor is they are asking which they wanted increased not both....Wonder what would be better. GPU might be better.

#49 Edited by EXTomar (4446 posts) -

And everyone remembered how that worked out with RROD. It needed a separate power brick and still overheated.

#50 Edited by Syed117 (387 posts) -

I don't really understand why it has to be a choice. Adding ram isn't going to change heat profiles like increasing the clock on the GPU will.

I think the ram would probably be better in the long run. At this point we all know that the ps4 will be more powerful. How much can a simple clock increase really affect games? The huge ram footprint of the OS is the real problem that developers might run into later in the life cycle.

The best ps4 games will look better than the best xbox one games, but the gap for mutliplatform isn't going to be huge. At least not for a few years. Having that extra ram might be the best option. More ram will always be better but clock increases can lead to extra heat and everything that goes with that.