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#1 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3909 posts) -

And by that I mean we have to do something about the people who are going after anyone who is saying anything positive about the Xbox One, and claiming that they're a Microsoft Employee. We get it, you don't like the console.

Hey, I'll do you one better, *I* don't like the console, and I think what MS is doing is doing with property rights is completely fucking disgusting. I will not buy an Xbox One, and I will recommend a PS4 to others. This is coming from a long time MS fan, who doesn't even own a PS3. So yeah. Believe me. I get it.

Because of all this, I felt I would be a good person to spread the following message. Stop accusing everyone who says something positive about MS of being a shill! Yes, image management is a thing, but this recent display of "guilty until proven innocent" nonsense has to stop. It's getting in the way of actual discussions, and it's essentially a personal attack.

If you wouldn't say, "I think you're wrong, and you should go fuck yourself!"

You shouldn't say, "I think you're wrong, and I bet you work for Microsoft!"

If someone has hardly any posts to their name, and they sound like they're a PR mouthpiece, I really think flagging the post and letting the moderators deal with things would be better than making rude accusations that just derail the discussion. Even if the person WAS a shill, calmly explaining a valid counter-argument early in the thread would be far more effective than crying out "Microsoft employee!"

But if people are going to continue to accuse each other of being shills, this place is going to get even more hostile than it has been lately, and I don't want to see that happen.

If you appreciate obvious humor, you may now accuse me of being a shill.

#2 Posted by Zero_ (1977 posts) -

Quiet shill.

#3 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@zero_: can you tell me what a shill is? It upsets my auto correct.

#4 Posted by Ramone (2981 posts) -

@the_laughing_man said:

@zero_: can you tell me what a shill is? It upsets my auto correct.

Someone who works for a company but just pretends to be an independent observer. For example an MS employee might sign up to a forum and post loads of threads about how awesome the Xbox One is while maintaining the pretense that they are just a normal dude.

#5 Posted by Winternet (8081 posts) -

WTF SONY EMPLOYEE NOOB FANBOY YOU DONT EVEN HAVE MGS ANYMORE PS4 SUCKZ ITS THE WORST CONSOLE EVARH!!!111!!!!!!

Am I doing it right?

#6 Edited by Nivash (241 posts) -

This isn't really a new phenomenon on the Internet, sadly. Ever tried saying anything positive about scientific medicine to a firm believer in "alternative" (I.e, not actual) medicine? You will get called a shill within two seconds flat. Argue with a conspiracy theorist and you'll be called a desinformation agent. Argue with a UFO believer and... yeah, you'll get the picture. The "Shill" fallacy is basically equivalent to the Godwin - once used, the discussion is effectively over.

This always happens when one side gets so convinced about that they are right that the only reason they think anyone could possibly disagree with them is that they stand to gain personally by doing so, and since they are as right as they are the only possible gain must be from the other person being payed off outright.

A piece of advice to anyone reading this: if you ever feel like calling someone a shill, take a good look at where you stand on the issue. If you can't think of any legitimate reason for anyone to disagree with you - not even stupidity, different values or anything else except them being paid to - then you've gone full dogmatic extremist. Recognize that and do something about it.

#7 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3909 posts) -

@nivash said:

This isn't really a new phenomenon on the Internet, sadly.

No, but it's becoming increasingly more frequent in this community, which I find usually seems better than that sort of thing.

#8 Posted by Morningstar (2250 posts) -

@nivash said:

This isn't really a new phenomenon on the Internet, sadly.

No, but it's becoming increasingly more frequent in this community, which I find usually seems better than that sort of thing.

I agree. You gotta respect people have different opinions. If someone likes the new Xbox, good on them. I think they are crazy, but I respect their decision.

#9 Posted by golguin (4118 posts) -

@nivash said:

This isn't really a new phenomenon on the Internet, sadly.

No, but it's becoming increasingly more frequent in this community, which I find usually seems better than that sort of thing.

Are you under some kind of deep cover where you try to convince the forum that there are no shills? Blink twice if the answer is yes.

#10 Edited by Brodehouse (10247 posts) -

It's been so long, no one remembers what a new console year looks like. IT LOOKS LIKE THIS. The only difference is we used to accuse each other of being homosexuals. Now we accuse each other of being corrupt and on the take.

#11 Edited by Darji (5293 posts) -

Even Ryan was behaving like the segment sucked. All these Microsoft "goons" talked about how great Microsoft stuff is and then they tried to bash Playstation stuff like the Witness which was only shown there. And every time the discussion shifted they bought up another Microsoft thing like Drivatars. Just look at people like Seth Killian or even Adam Boyes. These guys felt like real people and not like marketing puppets. Also later you could clearly see their mission when Major Nelson congratulated them for a great discussion.

So yeah If Microsoft has people who actually behave like people then they surely can come back and no one will complain.

#12 Posted by Nivash (241 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac: Agreed. We've been seeing a very strong zeitgeist of (to put it mildly) disapproval towards the Xbone this last few weeks. It's been growing ever since the reveal and hopefully it will peak now with E3 and start to die down, but I don't know. Flamewars and people takings sides are pretty usual around new console times but this seems worse than usual because the support for the PS4 is so strong and it's starting to take on aspects of people claiming it's about "consumer rights" and that even thinking of buying an Xbone is somehow morally wrong.

It's a console people, for playing video games, you know, for fun. It's not the civil rights issue of our generation. If someone wants an Xbone for God's sake let them buy it. Maybe it's in everyone's best interest that Sony's approach wins out this gen but someone has to buy the Xbone - a market ruled by Sony with no other competitor than the Wii U is not exactly something to hope for.

The Console Wars were cute back in the day when the SNES and the Genesis battled it out on the school yards, but the video game demographic is supposed to consist mainly of adults now. Can we at least try to live up to that, please?

#13 Edited by tescovee (367 posts) -

already been told that i was astroturfing, because I dared to say any thing that wasn't the hive mind...shits crazy...

#14 Posted by joshwent (2415 posts) -

...it's becoming increasingly more frequent in this community, which I find usually seems better than that sort of thing.

Sure, maybe. But look at the people spewing this dumb shit. They've probably starting posting on threads specifically to jump on the "fuk Xbone lol" bandwagon. They're trolls.

And the only way to "do something about it" is just ignore them. Simple. It'll all stop soon anyway.

(and of course start back up again in November, but don't think about that yet) ;)

#15 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3909 posts) -

@darji said:

Even Ryan was behaving like the segment sucked. All these Microsoft "goons" talked about how great Microsoft stuff is and then they tried to bash Playstation stuff like the Witness which was only shown there. And every time the discussion shifted they bought up another Microsoft thing like Drivatars. Just look at people like Seth Killian or even Adam Boyes. These guys felt like real people and not like marketing puppets. Also later you could clearly see their mission when Major Nelson congratulated them for a great discussion.

So yeah If Microsoft has people who actually behave like people then they surely can come back and no one will complain.

I'm referring specifically to forum posts. Are you talking about a video or podcast? Care to post a link, and perhaps share a time-stamp? I'd like to see what you're talking about.

#16 Edited by Darji (5293 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac said:

@darji said:

Even Ryan was behaving like the segment sucked. All these Microsoft "goons" talked about how great Microsoft stuff is and then they tried to bash Playstation stuff like the Witness which was only shown there. And every time the discussion shifted they bought up another Microsoft thing like Drivatars. Just look at people like Seth Killian or even Adam Boyes. These guys felt like real people and not like marketing puppets. Also later you could clearly see their mission when Major Nelson congratulated them for a great discussion.

So yeah If Microsoft has people who actually behave like people then they surely can come back and no one will complain.

I'm referring specifically to forum posts. Are you talking about a video or podcast? Care to post a link, and perhaps share a time-stamp? I'd like to see what you're talking about.

Oh I thought you were basically talking about the E3 Bombcast from yesterday when they invited these 2 Microsoft people in the first segment and it was just terrible PR.

http://www.twitch.tv/giantbomb/b/416674255

Timestamp: It starts at the 5 minute mark and it goes until they finally left.

#17 Posted by golguin (4118 posts) -

@nivash said:

@spaceinsomniac: Agreed. We've been seeing a very strong zeitgeist of (to put it mildly) disapproval towards the Xbone this last few weeks. It's been growing ever since the reveal and hopefully it will peak now with E3 and start to die down, but I don't know. Flamewars and people takings sides are pretty usual around new console times but this seems worse than usual because the support for the PS4 is so strong and it's starting to take on aspects of people claiming it's about "consumer rights" and that even thinking of buying an Xbone is somehow morally wrong.

It's a console people, for playing video games, you know, for fun. It's not the civil rights issue of our generation. If someone wants an Xbone for God's sake let them buy it. Maybe it's in everyone's best interest that Sony's approach wins out this gen but someone has to buy the Xbone - a market ruled by Sony with no other competitor than the Wii U is not exactly something to hope for.

The Console Wars were cute back in the day when the SNES and the Genesis battled it out on the school yards, but the video game demographic is supposed to consist mainly of adults now. Can we at least try to live up to that, please?

Surely you understand the political implications of Microsoft's policies here in the US. Digital Rights is still a gray area, but if people allow precedents to be set then lobbying groups are going to have an easier time writing up laws to take away our consumer rights.

This is a lot bigger than simply playing games.

#18 Posted by madman356647 (389 posts) -

@golguin: that may be true (and I agree there's some stakes there) but it still doesn't change the fact that running around and using the Godwin or calling yea-Sayers shills does not help that argument. Instead, the conversation devolves into MaCarthyism and a "No, You!" Off. I mean I have no desire for an Xbox One after everything, but I shouldn't just run around shitting on everything that has "Xbox" in the name. I'd then be dismissed just the same as the other side. When and where, y'know? Let the day one orders do the talking.

Now, I'm gonna cross some animals.

#19 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

It's been so long, no one remembers what a new console year looks like. IT LOOKS LIKE THIS. The only difference is we used to accuse each other of being homosexuals. Now we accuse each other of being corrupt and on the take.

It could be argued that it's a step up, at least.

#20 Edited by Jimbo (10062 posts) -

You're right, 'troll' would be more accurate than 'shill' in most of these cases.

#21 Posted by MideonNViscera (2252 posts) -

On a similar note, has anyone dared look at the GameFaqs Xbone forum lately? haha

#22 Posted by Animasta (14745 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@brodehouse said:

It's been so long, no one remembers what a new console year looks like. IT LOOKS LIKE THIS. The only difference is we used to accuse each other of being homosexuals. Now we accuse each other of being corrupt and on the take.

It could be argued that it's a step up, at least.

now just wait to start calling them corrupt homosexuals on the take I suppose!

#23 Posted by DFSVegas (356 posts) -

As a person who's used Steam for over 7 years, I have zero problems with Microsoft's online only policy. Anybody who wants to boycott the Xbox One, or isn't buying one because of that silly reason, is only hurting themselves. If the games aint there for you, that's one thing, but to take some kind of "moral" stand... I'm just not sure what you're trying to gain.

But hey, it wouldn't be the internet if there isn't a butthurt gamer out there, somewhere. And it only hightlights how short sighted many... Welll, I was gonna say gamers, but really, people in general... can be.

Trust me, if there's a game on Xbox that people want, people will buy it. Same can be said for the PS4. As of right now, I can't say there's any PS4 game I'm personally dying for, but in a year of two there almost certainly will be, and I will buy one. And that's what it comes down to. People will be self righteous, until Microsoft has the game they want on their system. All of a sudden, "morals" go out the window.

#24 Posted by MrCaptain (372 posts) -

Yeah internet, stop this! Also stop being racists! I mean, c'mon!

#25 Posted by OGinOR (325 posts) -

@golguin: You know that's patently false, right? That MS is following the precedent set by literally thousands of online media distribution outlets with the terms of their EULA in regards to licensing, etc.

They're the first CONSOLE manufacturer to take us down this road...but it's. pretty well traveled road, even in terms of video games in general.

#26 Posted by Kidavenger (3641 posts) -

I agree that people who are part of this community should be able to post what they think/believe and not be flat out trolled, but anyone that posts on these forums with a new account / low post count and appears to have some sort of agenda should be called out if it's clearly bullshit.

Online
#27 Edited by Veektarius (5065 posts) -

My impression was that there were more Sony shills on this site, if anything. They can sit back now, naturally, since Sony's riding high with actual people after E3.

#28 Edited by KickahaOta (145 posts) -

@kidavenger:

So, if someone new comes to a videogame website forum during the biggest videogame news cycle of the year, and they appear to be expressing a strong set of opinions about videogames, call them out. Got it. :)

Online
#29 Edited by Brodehouse (10247 posts) -

@hailinel: @animasta: From Gaystation to Plantstation.

I'll tell you, I'll miss the greatest console wordplay I've heard in 28 long years; X-SUX THREE-SHITTY.

#30 Edited by Milkman (17482 posts) -

I'm just a video game shill, you guys.

#31 Posted by DrDarkStryfe (1162 posts) -

It reeks of console wars fandom that made the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox years terrible to talk about.

#32 Edited by Sterling (2801 posts) -

So it was okay for everyone do this with the 360 against the ps3? but its not okay to do with the ps4 against the xbone? Hmm.

#33 Posted by 49th (2896 posts) -

great thread would read again

#34 Posted by Animasta (14745 posts) -

So it was okay for everyone do this with the 360 against the ps3? but its not okay to do with the ps4 against the xbone? Hmm.

this site wasn't around for the launch of the 360?

#35 Edited by OGred (196 posts) -

@winternet: only 7000posts has Win(dows)™ in his username. Light him up, boys.

#36 Posted by EXTomar (4991 posts) -

I'm waiting for the schillings to be exposed!

#37 Posted by Animasta (14745 posts) -

@ogred said:

@winternet: only 7000posts has Win(dows)™ in his username. Light him up, boys.

clearly, red is the old color for Nintendo, and thus you are a plant. GET THIS NINTENDO SHILL OUTTA HERE

#38 Posted by Sterling (2801 posts) -

@animasta: You know what I mean. Everyone shat on the PS3 up until about a year or so again, doing the same thing they are now with the XBO. Its the same thing. The people complaining about it are most likely the same people who did the same thing themselves in the past.

#39 Posted by Boiglenoight (537 posts) -

"Tell the bitch to shill!"

#40 Posted by Animasta (14745 posts) -

@animasta: You know what I mean. Everyone shat on the PS3 up until about a year or so again, doing the same thing they are now with the XBO. Its the same thing. The people complaining about it are most likely the same people who did the same thing themselves in the past.

why would you even assume that? Even if they were, it might be because they're not 14 anymore and see this constant console wars bullshit as annoying; what you're suggesting is that people don't like it because they're xbots and don't like it when microsoft is painted in a bad light, but they're totally fine with Sony being painted as such.

#41 Posted by Brendan (8282 posts) -
#42 Edited by OGred (196 posts) -
@rabidcentipede said:

So it was okay for everyone do this with the 360 against the ps3? but its not okay to do with the ps4 against the xbone? Hmm.

Instead of putting an end to dumbshit, let's keep it going to ensure everyone gets a go at being the asshats and the assholes.

@animasta said:

@ogred said:

@winternet: only 7000posts has Win(dows)™ in his username. Light him up, boys.

clearly, red is the old color for Nintendo, and thus you are a plant. GET THIS NINTENDO SHILL OUTTA HERE

gif

#43 Edited by EXTomar (4991 posts) -

Here is a strange idea: Maybe Sony did not have the right strategy with the PS3. Maybe that is why it got ridiculed.

Followup thought: Maybe Microsoft does not have the right strategy with the XBox One. Maybe that is why it is getting ridiculed.

Second followup thought: You can make fun of two things that can be unrelated. It is entirely possible to make fun of Sony and Microsoft because they both do dumb things that make people laugh.

#44 Posted by thetenthdoctor (291 posts) -

Came here expecting lynch mob looking to accuse anyone defending the XB1 of being a shill- left surprised.

#45 Posted by Winternet (8081 posts) -

@animasta said:

@ogred said:

@winternet: only 7000posts has Win(dows)™ in his username. Light him up, boys.

clearly, red is the old color for Nintendo, and thus you are a plant. GET THIS NINTENDO SHILL OUTTA HERE

Well, my name used to be white and deep down it still is, so you're all 2nd class citizen scum, as far as I'm concerned.

#46 Posted by musclerider (610 posts) -

Well too bad M$ is the devil and they suck and they smell bad.

Videogames are serious business.

#47 Posted by BigJeffrey (5165 posts) -

I believe that Microsoft is creating a outstanding console. It shocks me that we are ridiculing them with false assumptions, THE Future is hear, Stop trying to stop it.

#48 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5161 posts) -

That's what a Microsoft shill would say.

#49 Posted by Animasta (14745 posts) -

I believe that Microsoft is creating a outstanding console. It shocks me that we are ridiculing them with false assumptions, THE Future is hear, Stop trying to stop it.

a real shill would spell correctly you can't fool me

#50 Posted by OGred (196 posts) -

@animasta said:
@bigjeffrey said:

I believe that Microsoft is creating a outstanding console. It shocks me that we are ridiculing them with false assumptions, THE Future is hear, Stop trying to stop it.

a real shill would spell correctly you can't fool me

double bluff bucko, how to outschill schill detectives 101