Does anyone know if these cards spend all available mana? If you could have them make use of leftover mana that could be nice. Otherwise it might be a bummer devoting a turn (especially late game) to a single card.

@captain_max707: The forbidden spell uses up your remaining mana.

@acura_max: I assume it still spends all your mana even if it gets hit by Counterspell, even though really the card costs zero and the "spend all mana" part is in the card effect and not actually printed up in the mana cost?

It's really interesting how they approach this, because in MtG the card has to work exactly as printed, as established by previous precedents of rules interaction, but in Hearthstone they can program the cards to work in ways that don't exactly line up with the wording.

Also, how much does it cost for the purpose of Summoning Stone and various Tavern Brawls? Is it always technically zero, or is the cost dynamic?

@bisonhero: I don't know the answer to that question. So we have to wait until the expansion comes out or blizzard answers it on twitter. I'm assuming its a situation where the number on the upper left changes as you make plays; so, the card would count as a 5 cost to summoning rock if you only have 5 mana.

Then again Blizzard did confirm that Sorcerer's Apprentice won't have any effect on forbidden spells. So, if you have 5 mana, the apprentice won't give you a 5 mana effect for 4 mana.

That is a terrible card.

Out of curiosity, I checked out how much healing you could get in a Paladin deck with Forbidden Healing. Running the following:

• 2x Holy Light
• 2x Seal of Light
• 2x Lay on Hands
• 2x Forbidden Healing
• 2x Voodoo Doctor
• 2x Earthen Ring Farseer
• 2x Refreshment Vendor
• 2x Antique Healbot
• 2x Darkscale Healer
• 2x Tuskarr Jouster
• 2x Guardian of Kings
• 2x Priestess of Elune
• 2x Truesilver Champion
• Brann Bronzebeard

You can get up to 228 healing in a single game. Throw in some Tournament Medics and a Finley to get Priest hero power, and that number goes up even higher. Obviously you're probably not actually going to use cards like Voodoo Doctor or Priestess of Elune, and you're not going to be able to realistically have Brann out to proc every single one of your battlecry minions. The deck would also lose Healbot and Seal of Light in Standard, so a standard version would only have up to 188 healing. That's still 6 times your health pool though.

I wonder what card pool Forbidden Shaping and other cards like it (like all the Discovery cards) will end up drawing from. Will it be always standard, always wild, or actually change depending on what type of match you're playing.

@turambar: If you're in standard mode you will only see standard cards, even from random effects.

We now have our first class legendary! And it does not look very good. At least not yet. For this card to be effective you need a board and a very specific board at that to grab value. It's really too bad this card was not given to warlock. They could have used it with a dreadstead deck. On the bright side, it does have synergy with the card that museum curator provides.

The Tauren has the stat value of a yeti but with taunt. It could be good in arena.

Infested Tauren is like the new Belcher minus the double taunt, so that's interesting. Herald sounds like a good card for deathrattle priest but yeah it's not effective by itself which kind of throws is it to the middle of the pack for legendaries.

It's ironic that the cards that would make Herald of Volazj potentially good are all being phased out.

For 4 mana, Infested Tauren just doesn't seem to have a large enough initial body. Even just making a 2/4 would have been enough to fix the problem.

Even in arena Infested Tauren seems pretty mediocre. It's a little better than Tauren Warrior, but Tauren Warrior sucks so... If the Slime had taunt it might have been decent.

I feel like I would just play Faceless Manipulator instead in just about every deck idea I can think of that involves Herald Volazj.

A new warlock card was released today and what a card it is! This card will be excellent in arena if you are losing and potentially a better twisting nether in constructed. And if it isn't any of these things, I just hope that it has a good animation when it is played and Blizzard won't just reuse the animation from twisting nether.

Blizzard has also started the twitter voting thing they did last time to decide what the next card revealed will look like. They are doing things a bit differently this time though. Now they have given us five cards and the votes will decide what order they will be revealed. Each of the five cards also has a Hearthstone streamer under them. I'm assuming this means that the streamer gets to reveal the card. Heres the link for that stuff. LINK

I'm really liking the look of this expansion so far. Both from an art standpoint and a gameplay standpoint. For what cards have been revealed at least. I skipped the last adventure that they released because the previous expansion didn't do much to make me any less bored of all the nax and g&g cards. I really want to have fun with this game again so I'm hoping this expansion and the standard mode addition will be enough to bring me back.

Can I just say that it's bizarre that Twisting Nether costs 8, when functionally it does almost exactly the same thing as Brawl, a card that is only 5 mana? So many Classic cards are costed horribly. It's a pity that the only meaningful balance changes throughout the beta were when a handful of cards got hit with nerfs, while almost no cards received a significant buff, leaving dozens of cards just completely unplayable.

@bisonhero: Agreed. I feel like a lot of the classic Warlock class cards in particular could have used another glance over during the beta.

@bisonhero: Yeah, you could even argue that it's worse than Brawl, cos at least with Brawl you have a small chance of keeping one of your minions. I mean so does your opponent, but I don't think that potential inconvenience is worth 3 mana...

@mezza: Coming from physical CCGs, my hope was that Hearthstone would be more fluid, like a MOBA, receiving balance patches every month or two. Physical CCGs have a hell of a time rebalancing things post-release, since all the cards are printed on physical bits of card stock and rebalancing those cards could cause confusion, whereas a digital CCG should have none of those limitations. It's been supremely disappointing that the game is instead pretty much set in stone once each expansion comes out, with the only balance adjustments being nerfs to the handful of cards that are so extremely broken it's a wonder that they ever made it through playtesting in the first place.

@planetfunksquad said:

For comparison, the Magic: The Gathering card with exactly the same effect as Twisting Nether only costs 4 mana, making it useful in multiple stages of the game, instead of just the super late game. Granted, it costs 4 because it is in White decks, which is sort of like Magic's version of Priest/Paladin, so "destroy all minions" is basically MtG's version of Equality.

MtG's meta and mana-costing of cards obviously differs from Hearthstone, but still, Twisting Nether could cost 5 or 6 and it would probably cause no problems. Handlock would still probably run Shadowflame instead of Twisting Nether since it's cheaper and you only lose one creature while your opponent loses his entire board, and Hellfire is still more cost effective if the board is just flooded with small minions and the Warlock stands to lose fewer minions than his opponent. Even a fixed Twisting Nether at 5 or 6 wouldn't really compete with Hellfire or Shadowflame.

@loamlife: Oh man, so is Wrath of God really completely out of the Core Set these days? Let it be noted, I've been out the game for a while. Fun game, but it's just so expensive.

@bisonhero: That's been my biggest disappointment in the game so far. I really wish they were more willing to rebalance cards, but they've been so strict about it. Hopefully retiring cards will help by weeding out the ones that should have been changed. Still doesn't help those poor classic cards that are forever benched though.

The votes are tallied and the Kripp has won. He says that he will reveal a shaman legendary at 4pm est today on youtube.

Also this is what N'zoth looks like. Apparently he has not been revealed in WoW yet.

N'zoth

Doom is a really great arena card, the blowout potential is insane. Hopefully it'll make control Warlock more viable, since 9/10 it seems like it's just best to draft towards aggro right now.

1 hour until the shaman legendary is revealed. In the meantime, here's tiny explosive sheep.

We have the card now! Control shaman lightning storm hype!

That definitely seems like one of the best cards that they've shown so far.

Looks pretty good. Will give shaman a better healing option that they've been needing. If I don't get it in a pack, it may be one of my first targets to craft depending on what the other legendaries are like. A control shaman would be pretty neat.

If everyone doesn't mind, as someone who has played Magic for a while, I'd like to offer some opinions on the cards that have been spoiled so far. I'm no expert, but I do know a bit about card budget and value from all my time with TCGs, and I hope I can offer a perspective on some of these...and more specifically, why I'm not very excited about some of these reveals at all.

1. The Forbidden cards: incredibly lopsided to specific classes, specifically Forbidden Healing (of the ones revealed thus far). Forbidden Flame is kind of trash. Sure, it's a 1:1 burn ratio against a minion, which offers good spot removal, but you are going to hold out on it until you see something with a big ass that you can't normally burn out in one spell. Otherwise, it's mostly wasted. Seriously, Fireball is a 4 drop for 6 damage. That's value. This is a 1:1, so it's...okay, at best. Forbidden Shaping? That's an interesting card, but there's maybe a little too much randomness attached to it to make it something below a 5 drop. Between this and Herald Volazj, though, it makes priests fairly lopsided going into Standard format, as having this one card that can give you a creature (no matter what it is) at mana curve that you might be missing? That shit's OP, son!

2. Hallazeal: Kripp must not play Magic, because that 5-drop Soulfire Grand Master that he's trying to tout as being "the best" card that he's seen of that voting lot? Nah. Also, it's not for the control setup. That's not a control card at all. It's a midrange card, and a badly designed one at that IMO. Soulfire Grand Master did what this card wants to do...and much better. I know, I know: Wizards of the Coast has been doing this for a much longer time, but that doesn't mean that Blizzard can't learn their lessons on this stuff and the reasons for the design.

Compare the two for a second (ignoring the graveyard-to-hand effect and the fact that I know this is a bit unfair, but you'll understand in a moment):

Hallazeal and Soulfire both make your spells gain life for you. However, consider the two most important factors: the mana costs and the creature effectiveness itself.

With Hallazeal, he costs 5 and has a 4/6 body. This means that he's not a turn 5 play. He's not even a turn 7 play. He's a turn 9 play, and then you have to play some kind of burn spell or something that is dealing damage...because by that point, he's going to die on the next turn most likely. Seriously, a 4/6 body in Hearthstone...as I've learned...is not actually that big on the ass end.

With Soulfire, you have a 2-drop with a 2/2 that has LIFELINK. That means that when the creature attacks and does damage, it gives you life back. Because Soulfire only costs 2, it makes it IMMEDIATELY effective to help you stabilize a bit more when you need to (typically somewhere around turn 4 or 5), and if it doesn't live, then you just have your opponent waste removal on a 2/2 body. Sure, it had power, but it was 2 mana and your deck will have plenty of other power.

With Hallazeal, paying 5 mana for a creature that isn't immediately effective, even with a big body, doesn't mean a whole lot. He cannot attack immediately, and his mana cost (unless you have something reducing that cost like Thaurissan, which still means he's not a turn 5 play) doesn't give you the ability to throw some burn after it.

Now, Kripp says it's for a Shaman control deck setup? Why would I play this in a control deck? Reno Jackson is legal, he heals me back to full health after I let my opponent beat the shit out of me, and he costs one more mana. If I lose him after I cast him, I don't care. He was immediately effective. Also, he's a neutral card, which means I can save my Shaman card spots for something better.

If they brought that thing down to a 3 drop, gave him a 3/4 body... Yeah, that card would be dope as hell, and not even broken either. For what it is right now? Nah, that card ain't that great. It'll see play, but it'll also see a graveyard more often than people would like for it to.

3. DOOM!: means that rush is going to become far more prominent, as people will want to win before turn 10. If that doesn't become prominent, then it's going to be massive control setups where Warriors can still reign supreme.

4. Herald Volazj: too goddamn good. TOO goddamn good. Echo of Medivh is already godlike for mages (mech deck and dragon deck specifically...seriously, that card is MVP shit). Deathrattle priests are about to happen, and it's a good goddamn thing that Dr. Boom is leaving Standard. It's too bad he's not leaving Wild format. Priest decks are going to be fucking annoying in Wild.

5. Infested Tauren: a BALANCED version of Sludge Belcher, and it's about time. There shouldn't be something like 20 bajillion unstoppable tank taunts in any given format (and I understand that up to this point, there hasn't really been a "format," but still...). Between Deathlord, that 1/7 taunt, Annoy-o-Tron, Belcher, and Defender of Argus? Yeah, there's far too many powerful taunts available for people to use. That's not even including the Druid class taunt creatures like Ironbark or DoC. I'm hoping they have less of that ridiculously hefty-assed shit and bring in more managable taunts that serve the purpose of slowing you down that one turn or so and giving the opponent some breathing room. I applaud Infested Tauren, as it is GOOD card design. The only thing I could gripe about is that making it a 3/3 seems like something they could've added to the budget of the card. Oh well.

6. Eater of Secrets: bye-bye, Secret Pally! It was never nice knowing you.

7. Giant Sandworm: BOMB...ASS...CARD! Tooooooo bad it's a hunter card. Maybe they want to promote playing more midrange with hunters, but it probably still won't happen. Hunter and rogue are honestly the best classes for "mono-red aggro" styles of play. Still, I like Giant Sandworm.

8. Hogger, Doom of Elwynn: Value all around against anything that isn't an immediate kill spell...so Rogues, basically. Well-budgeted card.

9. Klaxxi Amber-Weaver: The mana-to-body ratio is value, but again, it feels like they want to shove C'Thun down our throats as the "meta." Also, they haven't shown a ton of cards that make me feel like C'Thun is worth it. Again, I'll have to see it in practice, because on paper, it just seems like hot garbage.

10. Shieldbearer and Servant: Also feels like hot garbage. We'll see in practice. Not convinced that C'Thun is that great.

@jakob187: Wow, I love your enthusiasm! I wish encountered more players like you on places like Hearthpwn and Hearthhead.

Here's another card for you to look at:

This card will probably do nothing in constructed but in arena it can be amazing. If you play this on turn on you can deny your opponent a 2 drop or a three drop if you accompany this card with a 3/2 stat 2 drop.

and these early turns can be critical as Rats,ah points out in this video.

@jakob187:I hear what you're saying and agree, but sadly Blizzard has designed themselves into a corner by designing a combat system where attacker chooses targets, thus almost no minion lives longer than 1-2 turns unless you're winning by a mile or that minion is a 4/12. So unfortunately any ability that would be interesting over multiple turns just doesn't matter because things with good abilities die immediately unless you're miles ahead of your opponent. Not to mention that every class has damage removal spells, compared to the intricacy of Magic's colours, where every colour does not have easy targeted creature removal. Also Blizzard is surprisingly unwilling to make cards like Soulfire Grand Master or Bloodmage Thalnos very often, instead relegating every interesting ability to minions that cost 4-9 mana. They need to make more epics and legendaries that cost 2 and 3 and do something interesting, but not insanely broken. Instead they just make a bunch of stuff like Wilfred Fizzlebang and Magnataur Alpha that just seem like wastes of a epic/legendary slot, and surely Blizzard must know that those cards will never see play.

@acura_max:Yeah, looks like they're trying to add cards so that Warrior has early game plays other than Hero Power/Armorsmith/Fiery War Axe. Specifically, Warrior hasn't had a playable one drop like, ever. N'Zoth's First Mate does seem like more of an Arena play than anything. But think of the combo with Upgrade! Sadly that's nowhere near good enough in Constructed, but I can dream.

Another new card has appeared. It's a face manipulator that has taunt but does not copy the effect of the minion. Looks like a card for control decks since midrange does not use faceless and combo decks can't use this to copy a charge minion.

It's a good thing deathlord is being rotated out because someone could easily curve out with double 2/8 taunts before turn 5. And one of those taunts would not have a drawback other than arriving a turn later.

New God card!

@acura_max: lol, could lead to some real shenanigans in Wild, with all the Naxx cards.

@bisonhero: One of the biggest issues I've had coming from the world of MTG is that you can choose which minions hit which minions. However, it's just made me begin looking at the game as being more of a "permanent sorcery on the board" game, where every creature is a form of removal or damage rather than a body itself that sustains some kind of major feature. Take Thaurissan for example. He's not living past the turn he is played, but he is still immediately viable when you play him, as he reduces costs on your hand at the end of your turn. The same can actually be said for a LOT of the minions in the game: they have immediate viability.

That's my biggest problem with Hallazeal: he isn't going to be a turn 5 drop with immediate viability. If anything, he's a turn 8 play followed up with an Elemental Destruction that is going to overload you for 5, putting you as a Shaman player (who already isn't in the strongest place on the meta ranking ladder) in a very tight position for turn 9. I feel like Hallazeal would've been better as a 4-drop 3/4 with the same ability, offering a little earlier turn viability and sustain, which they desperately need. However, I can also see the argument of busting Far Sight for him, but that's a crap shoot that isn't consistent enough.

I think Hallazeal is just not a great card. It's also not what I think Shaman REALLY needs right now. Frankly, they rely too heavily on BAD totems. The 2 mana they have to pay to get a random totem doesn't offer nearly enough power for what it costs. Consider that every other classes hero power is pretty magnificent (mage gets 1 damage for anything on the board, warrior gets 2 artificial health, priests gets a 2 health heal for anything on the board, druid gets 1 attack and 1 armor, paladin gets a 1/1 body, warlock gets card draw, hunter gets 2 damage to enemy hero, rogue gets a 1/2 weapon), and it's easy to see that the best thing you get from the random totems, in all honesty, is an 0/2 taunter. Hell, why not just make THAT their hero power? Get an 0/2 taunter from the hero power. It gives them the slowdown they need, people HAVE to deal with it (just like they HAVE to deal with what everyone else can put out there), and it gives them the pacing they need for their damn decks to flow more consistently. Of course, we know WHY that won't happen: it's a taunter for 2 every turn, and we all know how much we hate anything with the word "taunt" being played against us.

Shaman just has a few too many elements of randomness. As I also come from the world of Heroclix, it's all about taking away as many instances of randomness as possible. Sure, Dr. Boom's 1/1 bots have a random element, but they are always 1/1 bodies and they will always deal some level of damage that matters, as the range on the damage is low (2-4 versus 3-6 from Elemental Destruction for Shaman). Piloted Shredder gives you any random 2-drop in the game, but it is always a 4/3 body that almost demands being removed immediately, and if you know the 2-drops in the game, you know that you will RARELY get a bad card from his death. Even something like Flamewaker or Goblin Blastmage has an element of randomness to it, but you know the probabilities of you getting something you want out of them. You especially know those chances whenever you can personally say "I can kill this minion and that minion, and then make sure that there is more focus for this random damage onto this one particular enemy or just the hero itself."

Sorry for the super long blab on that, but one thing led to another. There's a bigger problem with Shaman at large, and Hallazeal ain't going to be fixing that. Maybe I'm just miffed that Kripp, being someone who is pretty good at Hearthstone (and someone I've played against...and yes, lost to...we were both doing tempo druid, and he just got some lucksack on his side) would even think to say that this is "the best" card he's seen from the votes.

@acura_max: Now THAT is one of the best cards I've seen from the set so far!

@jakob187: Kripp is probably just saying that it's good card because Blizzard is giving him free promotion for his channel by letting him reveal a new card. Chances are likely that he will give his real opinion in a later stream or video blog.

@acura_max: Kripp doesn't need their publicity, but I am curious if he had some form of talking points to hit with the video.

Meanwhile, as for those new cards that were spoiled:

N'Zoth the Corruptor: Well, I won't be playing Wild format! Being able to turn 10 this guy and bring back both Tirion, Cairn, AND Sylvanas? NOPE! No thanks. For Standard format, we'll have to see what the deathrattle scene looks like.

Undercity Huckster: Rogue class card (for anyone who didn't know), and it's fucking excellent. People are saying it's a "less efficient Burgle," but it's also a 2/2 body with a slight Burgle effect that fits into mana curve well. Excellent card.

N'Zoth's First Mate: It's okay. Getting a 1/3 weapon with a body attached is cool. It at least gives you a turn 1 piece of damage to the face (or removal damage if you're on the draw).

@jakob187: Aren't Tirion, Cairne and Sylvanas all in the standard format since they are part of the classic set?

Also forsen revealed another card on his stream. And this one will be sure to raise some questions. I don't expect it to be played much because it seems to involve alot of rng but it sounds very fun.

Really like how the new cards are turning looking. A lot of smart design decisions and cards statted with the realization that the '2*mana+1' statline shouldn't necessarily be the limiting factor when designing cards.

The C'Thun cards look pretty good. The Old God himself is viable with a bonus as small as +2/+2. C'thun's Chosen looks good enough on its own, the C'thun's buff makes it one of the best cards revealed so far. Without cards like Haunted Creeper, Implosion and Muster divine shields on minions bigger than a 2/2 will actually be viable again. Ancient Shieldbearer and Kraxxi Weaver are really strong if they trigger, but we'll have to see whether those classes will run C'thun decks.

The forbidden cards I really like the design of. Forbidden Flame sucks. Forbidden Shaping might be useful if Priests turn out to have trouble with curving properly. Forbidden Healing is a potential sleeper hit to me; it basically saves you against freeze mage and is great at surviving against control, while also being useful as a clutch mana filler against aggro to buy you a turn. Lay On Hands has always been clunky since the healing is too small for the 8 mana tempo loss against aggro, and the draw actually hurts you against control when games go to fatigue.

Faceless Shambler looks pretty insane for any decks that run giants as it basically gives you another two of those that have taunt from the get go (which is huge), although everyone is expecting Blizzard to nerf giants so Handlock isn't just a permanent deck in the meta.

Hogger looks pretty weak, but could potentially be a tech card against C'thun combo decks that seek to win with burst.

N'Zoth looks insane even considering that most of the good deathrattle cards will be going away, leaving pretty much only Sylvanas, Tirion and Cairne (who'll probably be making a comeback). In the decks that run those it will be incredible (the control Paladin in me is giggling). It's good when you are behind, it creates resources outside of your deck, it's almost always at least a two for one, and the deathrattles give you value a few turns down the road, which makes it more awkward to deal with for your opponent and easier for you to recover.

Hallazeal looks pretty good. You have to remember that the quality of 5 drops will be falling down dramatically, which means you wouldn't even really feel that bad playing it on turn 5 and it being instantly killed. It would make it a Druid of the Claw, which is an excellent card. If it survives, however, just gaining a couple of life with a lightning storm would already make it value.

Volazj looks kinda shitty. It's a yet another win more card for for a class that already has a ton of them. Win more cards always turn out worse than their perceived dream scenarios. Priests already pretty much win the game once they have board control, they don't need another card that's good if you have board control. On top of that, with many of the best deathrattle cards going away, pretty much the only 'value' minions that you would be fine copying are Sylvanas, Cairne, Ragnaros and Ysera. Here's the thing though: if you're only going to copy one of those, Faceless Manipulator is strictly better, and nobody plays faceless manipulator. If you have more than one of those on the board then you are either a)winning against aggro and Volazj is unnecessary or b)overextending against control and Volazj will just make you play even more into a board clear. Better to skip this one and put in a legendary that can stand on its own.

The rest of the cards isn't really that interesting, although they are much better than the filler cards from the previous expansions.

Is it weird that everyone talking about God cards is bringing back a nostalgia for my old days playing yu-gi-oh as a kid?

Anyway, I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I'm loving the card art in this expansion so far. The new god looks cool for control decks. I like how we're getting some heavy hitting high cost cards. Warlock epic spell is lackluster for me. Could be fun for others but I just don't have that much fun trying to play with that kind of rng.

I'm curious how people will counter N'Zoth though. There aren't a lot of great deathrattles anymore, but having to deal with a board stacked with solid death rattles like Syl and Tirion in addition to K'Zoths body could be enough to end a game or at the very least switch momentum easily. Maybe at least one full board clear spell being stuck in a deck will become the norm? Or maybe it'll be too slow to matter that much by turn 10.

Renounce Darkness, or, no-one likes playing as Warlock, so heres a card that makes you not Warlock.

(I know people like playing as Warlock)

(I will not be playing as Warlock in standard without my bae Mal'Ganis)

It's a slower shattered sun cleric that can pay dividends if you have board control. In arena, you're going to want this effect on at least 2 minions. Otherwise, shattered sun cleric is strictly better. You're also going to need to keep a board after summoning this guy and keep it for one turn. It's a really reactive card that is similar to anubisath sentinel. So I would rate in in a similar way: average in arena and probably unplayable in constructed.

Also this guy is supposed to be an octopus, but I can't stop seeing him as a blue elephant for some reason.

Seems Like Blizzard thinks the meta is gonna slow waaaay down

Well, it could be kinda fun with some kind of feign death synergy or something in wild. However, that is wild and wild will have much stronger crazy combinations I'm sure. In standard it looks just kind of alright. Maybe a solid addition to zoo. Especially if silence gets a nerf as the rumor going around is indicating. Kinda slow, though, and if your opponent can't clear your board in a turn to negate this guy suiciding to trigger then chances are you're in a good enough spot without the +1/+1 anyway. We'll see what the other cards are like though. Maybe there's something that makes it more interesting.

@mezza: @captain_max707: One more legendary to close out the night!

@acura_max: Attack and Kill, meaning it's not possible for it to get buffed until your next turn. I'm not confident that the meta is going to slow down quite that much for this card to be viable in constructed.

More often than not it'll probably just be a 6-7 with an effect that will make your opponent want to use their board to clear it. Or one of their removal spells. I doubt it will live long enough often enough to get buffed up to a worthwhile point. Kinda neat, but I think there are probably better cards that can force a response more consistently than this one. If Gruul doesn't see play, I don't see why this would.

@turambar: Understatement of the year. This card would still suck if every game went to fatigue. It's just a card that exists to give ol' lonely Majordomo and Hemet company.