Yes, this. I managed to keep my whole crew alive on my first playthrough without using a guide and I had a knot in my belly all the way through the final mission. Miranda was my love interest and I just hooked up with her again in ME3. Regardless of the series many mechanical faults, this connection to the characters has been Bioware's greatest achievement.

I hate to admit it but I just wanted Miranda around all the time because of her looks. Yvonne Strahovski is one of the most perfect women in the world to me. I can't help but smile and take a deep breath whenever I see her (God that sounds pathetic) sad but true.

@dyong said:

Man, you better not play Fire Emblem then.

@TheHT said:

@Korwin said:

I still don't understand how people playing paragon manage to loos crew members in ME2, I've never lost any ever on any of the 4 play through's I did. Doesn't take a genius to work out that if you do the loyalty mission, get the upgrades the person offers and pay attention to who you assign said collector base duties to (cause you know... you'd totally trust Miranda to look after a party of people trying to get back to the ship...) then everything will turn out just peachy.

If you do the proper assignments but DON'T do the loyalty missions, would those characters fit for the roles still die?

I only played through once (did the loyalty missions and everyone survived) but it seems odd that loyalty missions would affect characters doing things they're just good at.

For example, loyalty mission or not, being a friggin robot, Legion is perfect for crawling through that hazardous vent.

I didn't choose Legion. The role specifically asks for a tech expert, not someone who can survive the heat (although is an obvious secondary qualification), the choice for Tali who as per her dossier is noted as "a technical genius even among her own people" (paraphrasing) and lives inside a protective environmental suit was the obvious choice to me.

Loyalty totally effects their survival rate as well, and the upgrades stop people from getting smooshed during the initial assault.

@Korwin: Right, so if you were to choose someone other than a tech expect, do you know if they'd die whether or not loyalty mission completion would affect that?

Or are those assignments and those assault cinematics (like when that door is closing and a companion can get shot and killed) treated separately with your choices affecting the former and loyalty and upgrades affecting the latter?

I should probably just read a FAQ about how the game calculates the suicide mission. I recall Brad talking about some internet folk who broke it all down by the numbers.

It shows that games are different when you treat them as more than a game. They start to become experiences and gain meaning. Something that many games don't have.

@ghostNPC:

Save him so you can then kill him off in 3.

God job, I wish I had to courage (can't think of more suitable word!) to follow through and just go with the flow, but I think I'll always be reload save/utopia guy. I think achievements(not that I'm even that much of a hunter) and limited time have alot to do with this outlook, you want to get as much content and experience as you can in the most efficent manner possible, often to the determinant of more meanful and perhaps realistic outcomes.

It's not that hard to keep everyone alive. Get everyone loyal and buy the upgrades and don't make them do stupid shit and your a a ok.

I originally intended to go into ME3 with my original ME2 save - where Zaeed died (because fuck that guy), but there was one thing bothering me about it - it was not built on my Mass Effect (1) save, because that save was lost in a harddrive crash a few years back - so my ME2 save was based on different ME1 decisions than I had made.

Earlier this year, I decided that I wanted to go into ME3 with save that more resembled my original Mass Effect save, so I downloaded one that fairly closely resembled what I remembered of my ME1 save. As a result, this time I was able to save Zaeed. But you know... I still don't care for the guy.

Ultimately, it reminds me how psyched I was for the Mass Effect franchise when I finished the game. Maybe the end wasn't exactly what I thought it would be, but it gave the story closure. It showed what happened to my team.

And I think that's another reason why I am so disappointed now.

As for Miranda... I like Miranda, not just her presentation (she is attractive), but how the driven the character is, how torn she is. How imperfect she is, despite her alleged perfection. My least favorite part of the character is how her relation to her sister is written. There's just something off about it. Super-protective, but only once her sister is deep in shit? That's a bit odd... but could be considered human nature, I guess... maybe? I'd expand more... but not the right place for it. So, *shrug* I like Miranda.

I agree 100% - actually, replaying it never occured to me. I like to live with the consequences of my actions. Kasumi was one of a few I lost in that mission - she was in my squad for almost every mission and it's a shame she's no longer in that universe for me. For all it's other faults Alpha Protocol was a game that I found to be cool in terms of player choice/consequence. Felt really bad about one of the characters that died in that - I missed the clue/prompt that would've let me save them during the final mission, although then I might've ended up with a different resolution anyway.

The constant framing of her arse and the accent ruined Miranda for me. If you want me to like your character, don't pose her like a common whore and give her an intolerable manner of speech.

Similar to the first KOTOR, really, except in that case it was a botched faux-English accent.

To this day I can't understand how you could lose squad members on that mission, without missing something incredibly obvious. I feel like they make every attempt to point out what you should be doing.

"You should probably upgrade your ship with these upgrades."

"You should probably use a TECHNICAL character for this task."

"It would be a good idea to use a BIOTIC character for this task."

And furthermore, just completing the damn loyalty missions. What goes wrong for everyone else?

@Icaria said:

The constant framing of her arse and the accent ruined Miranda for me. If you want me to like your character, don't pose her like a common whore and give her an intolerable manner of speech.

Similar to the first KOTOR, really, except in that case it was a botched faux-English accent, rather than a bogan Aussie accent.

Dude thats Yvonne Strahovski's real accent. But I agree with you, no other character I can think of is shot with the camera behind them and at waist level. I would have thought they'd have grown up for ME3 but no. Had a conversation with Miranda and for about a third of it the camera had a clear view of her ass. Its kinda childish to be honest.

In my first playthrough, everyone survived the suicide mission :D

It's amazing to see how much impact a game can have on a person. Even if it's just a game, if it's written well enough it will always seem to have the player inspired or mourning in a way that will cause him to rethink an action he did within a previous save.

I played through the first two games with no roll backs. I figured the whole point of the game was the consequences of your actions and if you just get a do-over on everything then you're missing out on a part of the game that makes the experience really special.

Oddly enough everyone lived on my suicide mission the first time around. Wrex is no longer around though.

Tali died in my game. I played renegade in ME2, and I'm playing paragon in ME3. It's interesting to recognize and atone for mistakes made in the past. My Shepard was hard-bitten and ruthless in ME1 and ME2.

Now that humanity is in a fight for survival, he knows hope is all he has. No amount of pragmatic and ruthless leadership will win the war against the reapers. Despair from the Earth invasion bottomed his emotions out and caused a shift in his moral fiber. Shepard is pinning his faith on the strength of unity and not callous sacrifice.

I also believe this game is best played by accepted consequences of your actions. Need some more Gonzoesque reads on this site.

Everyone survived in my first run so I see that as my main cannon but I have other play throughs with a couple of deaths. Usually Tali which is a shame because I think she's great.

I lost Jack my first playthrough, solely because I was too middle of the road to resolve her dispute with Miranda, and I was romancing Miranda so I had to side with her. Of course I had no imported save for that playthrough, because when ME2 came out my ME1 Shepard was halfway through his third playthrough trying to attain level 60 and therefore couldn't be imported. Importing him would have given me the bonuses to have high enough Paragon/Renegade to resolve the dispute. So essentially I lost Jack to shit that the characters don't even know is a factor haha

Without reading them, because I haven't played ME3 yet, I've seen one headline specifically about Mordin from ME3 and yet he'll never be with me in the game since he died in my suicide mission at the end of 2 and so I'll never have that experience (whatever it was) that someone so meaningfully had with Mordin. That's an incredible thing to be the case. It's incredible that Wrex might be in this game for some and yet have died not jus tin the last game but the one before. I wonder if this kind of feeling will be replicated many more times through a large game franchise in the future?

@Incapability: I agree for the most part, with the only exception I see being the characters you can lose loyalty for w/o sufficient Paragon and/or Renegade. Some players may have played a bit too middle of the road and so could very easily lose those unloyal characters.

Otherwise I pretty much agree, the suicide mission itself is pretty straightforward, kinda hard to mess it up.

@rudyarr said:

@Clonedzero said:

this is not your damn blog patrick wtf

don't be a douchebag. Don't read it then

No, he's totally right. This is just a blog entry.

I liked how they fixed her teeth in 3. She wasn't perfect enough.

I had a similar experience, but with the forced decision to leave someone to die in ME1. I left Ashley behind since my Shephard was going to get it on with the blue alien anyways. Kaidan wound up to be a whiny bitch, and every time he's moaning about not being able to emotionally handle this or that, I regret my decision.

Sorry Ashley.

I agree with the article and I liked how he played the game as a one time go with someone dying and that's how he rolled into the 3rd game.

The issue though is that the only thing altered is you're going to get less game. It's not like since Miranda is dead her young sister is going to get into trouble and seek out the commander Shepard, that once saved her from her father, to help her, sending him on a total different mission with different rewards than the one Miranda will send you on. Same with Tali; now you just have one less squadmate in ME3, not some alternate quarian that could have been ionspired by the actions and death of Tali Va Normandy. If her or Garrus died then that's that! They don't have replacements, you simply link up with alternate members of their race on the missions that they are key for, and roll two squadmates short. If Mordin dies in ME2 do you even have a mission on Tuchanka?

The list goes on, that's the problem with the "choices" in these games. The only people I am giving a chance to prove me wrong at this point with these in game "choices" are the people over at Project Red that do The Witcher series.

I disagree. Also, How is this news?

I know what the author means, in my first try did the salarian die and if i look back in how his role played out in 3 , i sometimes wonder if i would feel differently. Still, a great experience and now with only 7 missions away, i am so stoked for the ending.

I lost Mordin and not Miranda, but this is exactly how I feel about it. I won't go back and replay ME2s ending until I've completed 3. Then I'll feel the story is complete and is set in stone. That will then free me to go back and play the, "what might have happened" game.

@Incapability said:

To this day I can't understand how you could lose squad members on that mission, without missing something incredibly obvious. I feel like they make every attempt to point out what you should be doing.

"You should probably upgrade your ship with these upgrades."

"You should probably use a TECHNICAL character for this task."

"It would be a good idea to use a BIOTIC character for this task."

And furthermore, just completing the damn loyalty missions. What goes wrong for everyone else?

"You need a LEADER..."

*picks Samara, who was introduced as an important member of her race that everyone seems to have heard of*

"WHOOPS! WRONG CHOICE!"

On my first time through the suicide mission I lost Tali. She was one of my favorite characters from the first game and was thrilled when I got to romance her in the second. I couldn't face playing ME3 without her though so I redid the mission without losses. If it was anyone but Tali then I probably would have used that save for ME3 (which I also lost Zaieed.) I'm glad I did replay it though because I've found the Tali story very rewarding in ME3.

I'm going to say something that everyone will hate but I'm still saying it.

Really wish they wouldn't have made a spoiler of ME2 a main headline. I'm playing through the series for the first time now, and I just finished ME1. I'm really invested in the story, and have been trying to avoid as many spoilers as possible. Then I come to one of my favorites sites, and there's one right on the front page.

I get that things can change depending on your choices and such, but I still think it would've been cool to just have the story/headline titled to just something along the lines of "Patrick's experience with *specific mission or whatever."

Same happened to me R.I.P

@durden77: not really a spoiler :/

I hated Tali the minute I met her in ME2 so I intentionally got her killed during the suicide mission, I only slightly regret it because (Mass Effect 3 Spoiler)

For all his magnanimous tolerance of other species: my Shepard is a down and out human racist. Jacob is dead and everyone else survived and this was in no way intentional.

I never looked through any walkthroughs and everyone on my squad survived, both when I played on 360 and when I played on PS3. But it was a stressful time, when I thought people were about to die and I was like "no no no no... Oh, okay... whoo!"

@Goldanas

Well listen, I know it was my fault, I was doing the final mission and just picked him for the mission, I wasn't trying to power game it nor will I try to defend the way I was playing, all I'm doing is appreciate the irony found in my short comings. I played through the story, I got my ending, and haven't played it since. But thanks, thanks for reminding me that no matter how much I enjoyed my experience, I screwed up, thanks.

I don't see how you can make this mistake, you knew which character you wanted to romance so why would you hook up with Jack, especially in a way that was meaningless?

but hey, maybe that's why you liked Catherine so much.

I only had one person die on me in my 3 playthroughs of Mass Effect 2. Zaeed because I screwed up his loyalty mission but on my last playthrough I didn't have Miranda's loyalty but she survived anyway.

@durden77 said:

I'm going to say something that everyone will hate but I'm still saying it.

Really wish they wouldn't have made a spoiler of ME2 a main headline. I'm playing through the series for the first time now, and I just finished ME1. I'm really invested in the story, and have been trying to avoid as many spoilers as possible. Then I come to one of my favorites sites, and there's one right on the front page.

I get that things can change depending on your choices and such, but I still think it would've been cool to just have the story/headline titled to just something along the lines of "Patrick's experience with *specific mission or whatever."

Lol, stop being so dramatic. Mass Effect 2 is almost impossible to spoil, and that's what makes it so brilliant.

@Brighty: Oh whoa is me. I hath avoideth thy plot many times over, yet from my own companions mouth, I am betrayed.

That's dramatic. I just made a statement.

I didn't want to start a forum thread on something I hadn't seen myself, but I'm hearing chatter that Chris Priestly shut down Bioware's Story Discussion forum today because the users were getting out of hand. Anyone else hear this?

I had the same issue too! Just because I was trying to be fair to Jack, Miranda gave me the cold shoulder in ME 2. Even though I finished her loyalty mission. She gets capped at the end of the game. I was so pissed! I never got a chance for sexy closure time. I started replaying ME2 to try to save her this time. I've read that it is VERY VERY hard to keep her alive in both ME2 and 3. Bioware Y U no like Miranda?

Y????

@phrosnite said:

Miranda sucks anyway. I dont know why people like her.

I say the same about Ashley. Ever since ME1 she has been the most boring female character in the whole franchise. Which is why i killed Ashley.

@durden77 said:

Really wish they wouldn't have made a spoiler of ME2 a main headline.

What's a spoiler? That Miranda can die? If you played ME1 you know your team-mates can die. Or are you referring to the Suicide Mission? Sorry, not a spoiler. From the product description on Steam:

"To even attempt this perilous mission, Shepard must assemble the galaxy’s most elite team and command the most powerful ship ever built. Even then, they say it would be suicide. Commander Shepard intends to prove them wrong."

Or more blatantly from the back of the box:

"They call it a suicide mission. Prover them wrong."

If that doesn't tip you off, the point in the first half hour of ME2 where you are told you are going on a suicide mission will. The "Survive the Suicide Mission" trophy is also a bit of a giveaway.

It's about as spoilerish as saying the fellowship have to take the Ring to Mount Doom in "Lord of the Rings".

@Cogzwell: Haha, sorry, I wasn't trying to come off as harsh, though I clearly see that that was the way I wrote it it. Sorry.

All I'm really trying to say is that in a story game, or a game entirely focused around a well-thought-out, granular story, it is probably incorrect to inject an aspect of a moment that isn't entirely there, though I certainly understand what you, and others are going for. For me, I lost some characters in one playthrough and saved some in the other, but the game didn't present it as some grand tragedy or remark. It was a modular scripted sequence that played out as a punishment for lack of readiness or whathaveyou. It's difficult to explain, since so many other mediums are so open to interpretation, but in the instance of a game, which gives full control of the outcome, and then presents specific results which do not play to the idea, it doesn't lend room for too much interpretation.

Of course, I'm probably reading too much into it; there is some irony in this character dying in this event, as you've pointed out. I wouldn't call it tragic in any sense, but I guess it is a bummer. Maybe I'm just extending from my own dissatisfaction for what I wish the game to be, rather than what it is.

Video Games.

first playthorugh i lost Tali and decided to play again. Im not a Tali fan but seeing her try to shut the door and have a Rocket hit her point blank in the face felt wrong so i did it and and had everyone survived. Propbably would have did it the first time if i knew i shouldnt have sided with Legion

@gladspooky said:

@Incapability said:

To this day I can't understand how you could lose squad members on that mission, without missing something incredibly obvious. I feel like they make every attempt to point out what you should be doing.

"You should probably upgrade your ship with these upgrades."

"You should probably use a TECHNICAL character for this task."

"It would be a good idea to use a BIOTIC character for this task."

And furthermore, just completing the damn loyalty missions. What goes wrong for everyone else?

"You need a LEADER..."

*picks Samara, who was introduced as an important member of her race that everyone seems to have heard of*

"WHOOPS! WRONG CHOICE!"

Samara is somewhat Legendary, but kind of a lone wolf kinda character. It's pretty hard to see her as a leader. It's like picking The Punisher to lead a team.

I'm taking that Patrick lost Tali and Miranda due to the the fact that he sided with Legion and Jack during the confrontations. That might explain something. Even then I always thought of Miranda as a pretty unlikeable character and getting her killed is actually sorta tough since she has Special Plot Armor that lets her survive a few things that other characters absolutely need Loyalty for.

Miranda was the best!