ZeniMax are proving to have a real fucking scummy bunch of lawyers.

I don't think it is the work time he put in to it. After all he's been running his rocket business on the side as well. It is probably that he used Doom 3 to help the development of early prototypes and to bring attention to the Oculus that they are claiming for.

No, they tried to negotiate a settlement in 2012, but the dealings fell through, which, I assume, led to Carmack moving on. This has been ongoing, not a knee-jerk reaction to the Facebook deal. Zenimax isn't in the business of patent trolling or frivolous lawsuits. It will be interesting to see how this goes. Carmack has publicly said that he was working on the software for Rift since he got the prototype from Luckey years ago, so it gets down to how much that contribution was and what his contract says about moonlighting.

Wow, I guess I'm not surprised. People love to chase money.

@nethlem: That's kind of where I am on this too. I think Facebook has become a horrible societal blight and it really killed all interest I had in Oculus when Zuckerberg bought them. But I also really find the idea that ZeniMax claims they own anything Carmack did while under their roof disgusting. Contract or no contract I think that's a crock of poo.

Fucking hell zenimax, could you possibly make yourselves look like any bigger assholes right now.

They're literally just mad their ex most talented guy is now helping another company potentially make a boatload of future money. Its pure greed and jealousy and nothing more.

/thread.

FaceBonds? FaceBills? FaceBank?

@jay_ray: I think it would be fitting to deal in Dogecoin on facebook. Silly money for a silly place.

Goddamnit Klepek

Well, much to the surprise of many, Oculus has been bolstered by the assistance of many companies... including Valve. Lucky has even stated time and time again that the Oculus would not be where it is today without some of Valve's innovations and direct assistance, and I'm sure that there's crossover with Carmack in a similar regard as well.

Faceboculus rift?

So Mr. Carmack was working on a side project that included building hardware and software for a video game device while working for a video game company. There is bound to be language in his contract that states anything demonstrably relatable to his paid work is not to be used for personal profit either without disclosing it to the company or for a period of time after the termination of his employment. They don't own any of the work he did on that Rift prototype before leaving id but they may very well have contractual rights to some of the profit.

Also let's not get caught up thinking that "Zenimax" has pulled out their pitchfork and put on the horns. This is simply a case of one corporate entities' legal department doing the job they are paid for by going after another.

I think I'm done with Zenimax now I'll never play one of their games again. As far as I am concerned if you are going to play one then I ask that you consider piracy. As for me I wont touch them.

If John's tweets are a good starting point, then it seems that at the very least Zenimax owns the early code and possible the prototype built by John himself. Everything else though is where the gray area legal nonsense will have to get sorted out.

Either way this is Zenimax doing no favors for itself, especially after that scrolls bullshit.

Lol dat pick of Will Smith in the thumbnail :D

WHY DOES ZENIMAX FEEL THE NEED TO SUE ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING IT POSSIBLY CAN.

I want Fallout 4.

@patrickklepek please don't ever stop using that image of Will Smith as the header for any and all stories about Oculus/VR

It's the "garage-based pipe dream" bit that rubs me the wrong way.

Just a cash grab by Zenimax. They would have to prove that Carmack worked on it while on the company dime and not just as a hobby. Lawyers come out of the wood work when big acquisitions like this happen if they think they can get a piece of the pie. Makes me sick. I bet Valve won't do this though I think they have way more reason to be pissed about the acquistion.

Facefuck*

Fixed it 4 u.

I think I've changed my mind on this during the course of the thread. If Carmack developed graphics engine software for use with the Rift, he can't just walk that to another company for free. As he says, the code belongs to Zenimax.

I don't care for Facebook, but ZeniMax has to learn that everything your employees do is not necessary yours. Unless Zenimax was specifically paying Carmack to develop Occullus, he could have work on Occulus in his office while being paid by ZeniMax that it would not be theirs unless they mandated it.

"No work I have ever done has been patented. Zenimax owns the code that I wrote, but they don't own VR."

https://mobile.twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/461918500307472384

@willsmith: WILL SMITH SMITHS SHOCK OVER FACEBOOK FLOP FARCE

Everyone on the bandwagon to hate Zenimax because their scrolls game is not what "they wanted"...Shaddap - I see valid points on both sides, only time can tell what happens next.

What a load of BS. Zenimax is smelling a lot of money, and they want a part of it. Also, it is INSANE to me that there is so much fuss about a device THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET. It is super interesting to follow, if anything.

Well, Carmack had been licencing and open sourcing his stuff since forever. I doubt he left any loose ends that could give Zenimax any leverage.

But meh, we'll see. Hopefully this won't affect Carmack negatively on his endevours in VR. That's all that matters.

Does Zenimax realize gamers are notorious for holding a grudge. Don't screw with my OR.

WELL. THIS SHOWS ZENIMAX IN A GOOD LIGHT.

"garage based pipe dream" sound like a real douchebag way to put it in a legal statement

@christilton said:

Soooo... Don't work in games then?

Yep. I personally know a few people that have been dinged by this even at lower non-executive levels. In higher level positions, most of those non-compete contracts get even more strict.

Even if it isn't true and you didn't make use of any company resources (including software, technology, and whatever amount of your time that contractually belongs to them), you're probably almost always going to be taken to court if there is even a shred of credibility to the notion that you violated your contract and ran away with a billion dollar idea.

Long story short, be super careful about what you sign when you take a new job, and do everything in your power to avoid suspicion and be up front if you're doing something that could at some point possibly be construed as a contract violation.

Stuff like this just makes me sad. I hope Carmack was smart enough to skirt around this stuff, and they come through clean.

Ding Ding Ding

If Carmack signed a similar contract any work he did on Occulus even off the clock is legally Zenimax's, and considering ID hasn't done jack shit in 5+ years odds are some of the Occulus work was while Carmack was working at Zenimax.

The only reason why Zenimax is going after Oculus is cause they have something to gain from them now that they're owned by someone who has money.

Also, I support Zenimax in this endeavor. Facebook shouldn't have bought OR in the first place - it has no business in technology.

Hah. Zenimax vs. Facebook? Sorry, Zenimax, but you aren't that big.

I think Palmer Luckey is still one of the worst names anyone has ever given to a child.

But on topic: Zenimax, as a publisher, seem to be involved in some really shady stuff all the time. Ridiculous preorder/special edition stuff, pushing games out that ain´t ready (Brink) and suing everybody.. a shame, since I really like the developer Bethesda Softworks. A shame they are in bed with such scumbags. But then again, so are 90% of mainstream, non-indie videogame developers.

@falcomadol: You are working the wrong jobs, mate. Most people I know aren't asked to do work stuff when they're not on call (for which there is a rotation) or in the office... and I work in IT, one of the worst industries for that sort of thing. Some people choose to, sure. But they aren't expected to.

What gave you the impression they give a shit?

I don't think they have a case. They would have to prove specifically what Carmack "stole" from Zenimax that is now implemented in the Oculus Rift. Good luck with that.

Gee, now I'm pretty happy that FB bought Oculus. FB has tons of money to help Oculus defend itself.

Fuck that retarded company

I can't wait for this case to get all the way to the top, where the US Supreme Court will issue its next landmark ruling finding that your employer does, indeed, own your entire brain.

And the statement explaining their Constitutional rationale is just a sheet of notebook paper that says "get paid, motherfucker" in gold-foil Sharpie

This is the sad truth of it all.

lol, too funny.

Oh god here we go. -_-

And, ZeniMax, this is coming up ONLY now? Maybe, err shall we say 2 billion reasons?

If I were Zuckerberg and Carmack I will draw this out in as public and excruciating of a format as possible for ZeniMax...even if it costs money. I would sit back as Bethesda, id software, and Arkane Studios bleed money until Zuckerberg and Carmack can ask, "Hey, Christopher Weaver, Robert A. Altman, and Ernie Del...was it worth it? Did this turn out how you thought it would?"

Somehow, I don't think Zuckerberg and Carmack are the most tractable people in the world. Also, have you ever looked at Carmack?

Carmack scares me. He makes me think of the line in Jaws, "... You know the thing about a shark [Carmack], he's got... lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eye. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be livin'. Until he bites ya and those black eyes roll over white."