Everything about Windowmaker :D

Seriously though, for some reason Windowmaker feels out of place for me. I can be busy combating a Winston, Tracer or Mei and without even my knowledge from miles away I'm dead in an instant. Maybe I just suck (which I know already) but it's more frustrating than fun, at least when a Tracer or Mei kills me I feel like they've earned it. Windowmaker feels lazy to me, I've had numerous matches where there's at least two Windowmakers in a team.

@machofantastico: Have you actually tried playing Widowmaker? It's not like you can just stand there and get free kills left and right. (I hardly ever see Widowmakers get play of the game.) Once the enemy knows where you are and get up in her face it's very hard to fight back. The poison mine is barely useful beyond an enemy sensor and her grappling hook has a pretty long cooldown for a traversal skill, compared to D.VAs 5 second boost or Hanzo's infinite wallclimb.

Her charge up shot could maybe use a small nerf in some way or another, but her overall kit is not that scary otherwise, especially in such a fast paced game.

I think I figured out what they could (and should) do to Bastion. Remove the bonus armor he gets in ult form. Why does he even get it ? While there are exceptions, most characters that have long-lasting ults does not gain any bonus mitigation or HP, and Bastion certainly doesn't need as strong of an ult as he has.

As mentioned numerous times before, Bastion.

Sure, there are numerous counters and ways to play around him but it just comes across as bad character design and balance(?) when you watch some of the braindead replays rendered by Bastion. It's like.. Hey, do you want to be successful in a FPS without actually requiring any skill what so ever?

Zenyatta still feels patently underwhelming as a healer, particularly when compared to Mercy and Lucio. I wouldn't mind seeing Lucio's raw healing output tuned down just a hair, as it's just ridiculously good.

Mei also feels underwhelming, particularly her ult, which requires a lot of time to get max use out of, and plenty of characters can easily escape from.

Winston's ult is great for survival and messing enemy spacing up, but I don't worry about it when I see it deployed against me, because the damage is not that great and it really isn't that threatening.

Rein is much like Lucio in that he usually feels like the clear superior class option, with a few map-based exceptions for Winston.

Hanzo is basically outclassed by Widowmaker in almost every regard, so he might need some tuning.

@goodenoughforme: Mei is generally considered one of the strongest heroes in the game right now. She is ridiculously good at controlling restricted spaces and she has the advantage over the vast majority of the cast in a close range fight. Her super is more about area denial than automatically disabling everyone. Even if you don't freeze anyone with it you're still forcing them to scatter which gives your team the advantage.

I want to see Mei's iceblock thing (the invulnerable one) be breakable by (lots of) damage. If you pump a BUNCH rounds into that thing you should be able to break it, rather than it being a constant free heal and point contesting tool. Extremely annoying that even an entire team can't stop 1 Mei when you can do things like break Reinhardt's shield.

If they toned down Bastion at all he'd be unplayable. He's already one of the weakest heroes in the game as long as the team he's against isn't brain dead or are all new.

They're just going to cause more issues if they start making changes and the game is still new so they don't need to yet.

@wiseman4545 I'm curious where/how she is considered strong, because she is routinely near the bottom on tier lists for competitive play (or even at the very bottom), and in casual play, she just doesn't really offer anything all that threatening or compelling, imo. Plenty of ults cause scatter; Soldier, McCree, Junkrat, Pharah, etc., so she's not alone in that regard.

I don't believe Bastion needs a nerf at all. I haven't seen a Bastion play of the game at all level 15+. Once you get better and are matched with better teammates and opponents, Bastion is a non factor.

Also Symmetra actually might need a slight nerf. I'm literally on a 10+ game winning streak playing as her. Her left click absolutely murders Reapers, Roadhogs, Genjis, DVAs and any other close range hero. Her teleport is right next to Mercy's ult in absolutely game changing during control point missions.

Don't know what tier lists you're looking at but she is very strong on defense, especially on maps with relatively enclosed control points. The necessity to be on the point means you can't effectively stay out of range, and like I said, she has the advantage over the vast majority of the cast in close quarters. Slow characters are basically a sitting duck and faster characters often just have to run away. If she does manage to freeze you then a single easy headshot from her secondary fire is a free kill to all but the tankiest heroes.

She can block of entrances to prevent opponents from easily accessing the control point and also stop the payload in its tracks without having to go anywhere near it. If she's ever in danger she can just ice block and heal, which lasts long enough that the opponent often has to take their attention off you unless you're alone, and can negate most supers. Junkrat tire coming your way? Ice block. Hanzo super? Ice Block. Pharah super? Ice Block. etc etc.

@wiseman4545 There are a variety of tier lists I've seen, although most this early on still are are done by one or two people spitballing and not entirely data-driven, which limits their appeal. Here, for instance though, is basically a tier-list driven by competitive play picks.

Bastion: easy to counter but I feel his downsides are a lot less of a worry compared to other characters like "I'm very mobile but crap for health". He has 300 health, a fast-acting heal with no cooldown, a siege mode turret gun that can snipe with no damage dropoff, can melt tanks and has a 200 round magazine. Decrease the damage in siege mode, give it damage dropoff and either decrease the heal but keep the no cooldown or keep the heal amount but give it a cooldown.

Roadhog: Change the hitbox on his hook because zigzagging around corners he's just frustrating. Also the fact he can tank full-on ultimates, heal through him and do a hook left click? That's stupid.

McCree: Ya'll already said it: the stun-rightclick or stun-rightclick-roll-rightclick is just too annoying and it's basically a game of "try to bait the stun".

D.va: Her gun damage sucks. A Symmetra left clicked 2 squishes down right in front of me and I just barely killed her. Her gun sucks for damage.

Widowmaker: She's not a sniper in this game, it's like a bolt-action rifle. Needs to be an increased charge time on her gun to make players make sure their shots count and not just "oops missed, oops missed"

Zenyatta: Health buff for sure. Mercy has the single target large rez and revive, Lucio has constant heal/speed and a big shield and Symmetra has zone control and a teleporter, Zen has............uh.....

Winston: Hardly played him but maybe dmg increase on his gun?

Torbjorn: Decrease the lock-on time of the turrets. The time it takes for them to find you and start shooting is a bit silly.

The only character I wasn't quite sure about was Bastion and how accurate he is at long distances. I would maybe tweak the long distance accuracy a bit, and I'm not even sure that would be a good idea. Other than that I think they're all well balanced. A lot of the "weaknesses" people mention are very deliberate balance decisions. They're things you need to work around and if you do all characters are equally viable in given circumstances.

Bastion does have damage falloff at range. Test it for yourself in a practice match against training dummies.

That tier list seems to be based entirely off of payload maps. I wouldn't place her at the bottom even there, but those maps are definitely not where she shines. She has some uses on defense, but has little to no use on offense.

I'd like to see an increase on Junkrat's range for tossing his traps and explosive.

I've been playing Junkrat for a few days now, and I'm starting to think that they might want to tone down his ult a bit. It's super easy to build up his ultimate meter quickly, and the blast radius of the tire is ridiculous. Either make it so dealing damage doesn't build his ult so fast, or reduce the blast radius of it. I know its weakness is that the wheel can be shot, but that doesn't really matter with how easy it is to build that meter back up again.

That being said, I still do hope they wait a while before doing any real big balance changes. Things people think are a problem at first might not actually turn out to be one. Bastion is pretty much becoming the poster child for this.

@wiseman4545 said:

Yeah, I linked the payload only because it was most recent, but there's lots of articles going all the way back into beta (!!) which have her near the bottom. Her Ult still takes too much time to develop (if its main point is to scatter, McCree and Reaper and Soldier And Junkrat and... and... all have better scatter methods, as they do large damage too). Her need for super close range to freeze with no mobility skills is also a big detriment. I just think she adds very little and is an easy target for a lot of different characters. In that regard, her getting a slight buff wouldn't surprise me, although I don't know what form it would take.

As always, a lot depends on how Blizzard chooses to balance things. Bastion and Torb are of little threat when you're in a group with mics and can organize, but against PUGs, they can be a big time pest. I've seen plenty of people claim Mei is annoying in pugs, although I maintain that she's not very dangerous.

@goodenoughforme: With how often I see cries for Mei nerfs I would not expect any buffs any time soon. It's probably best for them to just leave her be until the dust settles and people have a more solid idea of where she lies in low and high level play.

For the most part the game seems balanced to me. A slight dva damage buff and a slight buff to zenyattas health or his ability to heal himself are all I would change. I rarely see dva used, and widowmaker being able to one shot zenyatta to the body is kind of crazy.

Just gonna frown endlessly at anyone suggesting that Mei needs a buff.

Mei should not have 250 health

D.Va does not need her damage buffed. She's already borderline OP as is, increasing her gun damage would make her ridiculous.

Widowmaker should have to swap out to a pistol for close quarters combat. Giving her a totally capable machine gun seems a bit too much.

Zenyatta needs work on a bunch of different levels. He doesn't touch Lucio or Mercy in terms of healing potential. He's fragile as hell but doesn't have the damage output to compensate for it. He has six orbs, right? Then, he should be able to send out 3 orbs each of healing and discord at a time.

In what wooooooorrrrrrld

@efesell: well she has 500 health, never has to reload, has a get out of jail free card every time she "dies", one of the best ults in the game, and great mobility. So yeah, that world.

As much as I do happen to like D.VA, you're conveniently ignoring a lot of her flaws. Like her massive headshot hitbox that makes that 500 hp way less meaningful in practice (Reaper can basically destroy that thing in a single clip), or that her guns have major damage falloff and slows her down to a crawl making it very tough to stay on top of enemies to do damage and making her an even easier target, or that pretty much everyone knows how easy it is to avoid her ultimate now.

She's better than some people are giving her credit for, but calling her borderline OP is waaay overselling her. She could use a few minor buffs. Maybe not in terms of actual damage, but definitely less restrictions on movement while firing (she's supposed to be mobile) and maybe less damage falloff outside of pointblank range. A slightly smaller headshot box would also be nice, and possibly make her ult not so easily blocked by any tiny object in the vicinity or maybe just slightly less fuse time.

Who cares about 500 health when it can be depleted in seconds because you take constant headshots, who care about never reloading if you have to be glued to someone while taking constant headshots. Her best ult in the game can be avoided by hiding behind anything that breaks line of sight, including the payload. Her extra life is usually wasted because the person who blew up your mech in a handful of seconds is typically right on top of you ready to gun you down again.

Her mobility is awesome, won't take that away.

The rate of fire for Hanzo and Widowmaker's shots should be reduced.

People who complain about Bastion most likely are the ones who sprint or walk around corners without paying attention and get blasted by him. If you're careful about where you're walking you could typically spot him before getting pummeled. Long range guys can take him down easy.

@hippie_genocide: Did you just call her ultimate one of the best in the game? It's easily avoidable by hiding behind a thin sheet of paper or even blocked by reinhardt, her crit hitbox is the biggest in the game and is straight in the middle of her model.

Do I think D.va is garbage? No. Do I think there's a good reason they're buffing her? Yes, 100%.

Also, as @goodenoughforme was saying, Mei is pretty much completely useless in the higher tiers as the pick rate shows. If you have coordination, and your team behind you or have any kind mobility, you win. It doesn't help that her ult is easily avoided, reflected, or eaten up by defense matrix. How they're going to balance her so she isn't bottom in competitive/master tier is one of the most interesting things right now.

D.Va's ultimate is one of the best when it's used for what it's actually meant for: area denial. Getting kills with it is just a bonus, but its actual use is for clearing people off a point or scattering them from a position.

The thing about that is, a ton of characters have area denial baked into their ults (as many as 10+ depending on how you want to consider things), but actually can kill people, because they start up instantly or don't give you a bunch of time to react.

@alkusanagi: If that's the argument then half the ults in the game do that, better than D.Va even, because they skip the added bonus of having a giant red flag all over the enemy screen as it winds up. If you're going to argue that Hanzo, Pharah, Roadhog, Winston, even McCree whose ult is a gigantic whiff against competent players (but do at least catch someone off guard once in a blue moon) do not make people scatter, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

D.va's ult has the range, but with the amount of geometry in every level the range is never even a thing to consider. You're always a second away from a wall or a lamp post, and that's all it takes. And that's just not very effective area denial.

Hazno's is the only one I'd say is truly more effective since it goes through objects. All the others you've named can be avoided by going behind something. With D.Va I can send it PAST the objective which forces them out of their hidey holes and into my team's line of fire.

I will make it work, goddammit! My baby isn't trash tier!!!!!!!

@alkusanagi: She's not, but that doesn't mean you should try to act like she's the polar opposite god-tier. She does have flaws and a few minor buffs would not be unwelcome.

The only things I'm getting really frustrated by are the excessive effective range of Tor's turrets/bastion turret mode with how small the maps are, and probably the instant and flawless tracking on turrets. Assuming someone's not an idiot it's pretty easy to get set up in a location where you can't outrange. Also maybe have the dedicated knockback abilities shove bastion out of turret form or at least actually knock him around? I've heard too that the servers have suuuuper low ticks (20-ish?) and that probably would explain all the times I've had clutch life saving abilities play the sound or do the movement on my client but still die server side.

Just like D.va. Sending it past the objective does nothing, the entire thing that's being complained about is the gigantic wind up time where the enemy is being warned by a giant red warning sign on your screen even showing the direction it's coming from. D.va's ult doesn't force anyone out more than maybe 5 meters away behind a wall for a hot second and then back out. The ones suggested you at least have:

Hanzo, which goes through walls and no warning about the direction.

Pharah, who has a ton of mobility for a sneak attack and the damage comes out almost insantly.

Roadhog, and Winston which triggers instantly and you're mobile.

Trust me, I love playing D.Va. I like her playstyle a lot. But her ult is poorly considered when your opponent has eyes or coordination. As someone who mostly plays with and against teams of 5 or 6, it's not even worth considering in 98% of the games, and that's a problem.

EDIT: And to be fair, you can totally make it work in normal public games. But it's a problem if a hero's ultimate abiltiy becomes completely and utterly useless in higher tiers of play.

@cloudenvy: Well, even if it's not super effective at killing stuff there's no reason not to use it if you have it. If nothing else it gives you a free new mech. Also if you pop it right as your mech is getting destroyed you can occasionally catch people off guard thinking the detonate animation is the mech breaking animation. Or just cover your escape.

Even for area denial it only really works if you are playing against people who still think that it's very big and scary and they have to get away. Anyone playing for a bit will just casually stroll over to the nearest wall and wait it out.

The best case for that Ult is to practice launching that thing into the air so that it drops on top of people. Provided you're a really good judge of where the team is it works pretty well since nobody ever looks up.

1. Genji needs his super buffed a little. He should have a hard time with tanks but having to hit characters like Mercy twice is a little much for how risky it is.

2. If nothing else, Torbjorns turret should have a blind spot. Getting behind that thing and having it immediately turn to shoot you is silly.

3.The only change to Mercy I would make is not having to target allies to use her flight. This may only be a problem for me because I play with randoms but i would be happy if it worked more like Pharahs jet pack. You would make the cool down longer of course if you did.

Don't really have an issue with anyone else though yes Zenyatta needs more health.

Automatic wall run option for Lucio

I've heard some complaining that Torbjorn's turret cooldown starts immediately and not when his turret is destroyed, which seems insane to me. Not sure if this is true or a real problem, just something i saw going around on reddit.
Personally I think Roadhog's LMB attack needs a buff or something, It seems absolutely worthless to me but maybe I just haven't found the right opportunity to use it.

@camurai: It's true, but it kinda doesn't matter, considering a level 1 turret is mostly useless and building up a new one while people are on top of you is practically impossible.

No, it's totally reasonable that the scientist has more health than the veteran soldier. That's just science.

Mei's ice wall could use a couple more seconds on its cooldown, I feel. Someone rightly spamming that thing can get them up a little too often for something much more blocky than Reinhardt's shield. It's also one of the few things that seem to be able to properly be a detriment to your own team; I have had a Mei build one on the exit of the APC (?) on one of the KotH maps at the start of the round, and used it a couple more times just to get in the way of our team.

Character balance aside, I think the Play of the Game thing is way too biased towards the offensive. There's a handful of heroes I've rarely (if ever) seen highlighted. That said, I don't have any real ideas on how to improve the system. (Symmetra heading behind the lines and setting up a teleporter could well be the most significant moment in a game, but it won't necessarily make for fascinating viewing.)

@camurai: For Roadhog are you talking about his regular shotgun blast (LMB) or the alt-fire. I agree with the alt-fire being total trash but his regular shotgun just decimates whoever you manage to hook

Don't be dumb. Genji's ult is already super powerful because it can create a ton of confusion. His already fast speed and sword dash make him pretty hard to hit even at close range.

Roadhogs alt fire is great you can harass people all day long until the next hook is ready.

Wolf Hanzo's ultimate call needs to be a bit louder. It's much quieter than the line every other skin uses.

Yeah I've been noticing that a lot too now that more people have gotten that skin. He only raises his voice at the last bit and by that time you might already be totally boned. Drifts uncomfortably close to giving a skin actual gameplay value.

Symmetras teleport needs adjusting, as it is now it's pretty inconsequential.

It has two potential fixes, either they increase the amount of uses from 6 to 12 since 6 uses are just too few in a fast paced game like this, it just doesn't make much of a difference to the overall match flow.

Or they make it so you can charge your ultimate while the teleporter is deployed, as it is now you roughly only get 2 or maybe 3 uses per match, that isn't much when you consider the relatively small impact it has on a match compared to other ultimates.

As cliche as it is complaining about bastion, i do think that reinharts shield melts way to fast against bastions turret.