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    Persona 3 Reload

    Game » consists of 1 releases. Released Feb 02, 2024

    Persona 3 Reload is a full remake of Atlus' 2006 role-playing game.

    Persona 3 Reload thread

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    AtheistPreacher

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    #1  Edited By AtheistPreacher

    Persona 3 Reload will be released on Friday, about three days from now, and I know I'm not the only one who will be playing it, so I thought I'd start a thread.

    The review embargo was apparently up this morning. For the review score pervs, it's currently sitting at a Metacritic 89 and so far has no scores below 80%.

    I'll embed two video reviews here: the Digital Foundry tech review, which makes some interesting points (particularly about the lackluster lighting), and the Michael Higham review for IGN, which IMO deserves priority on these forums given that he may be the only P3R reviewer who named his protagonist "Charlie Tunoku," not to mention that he's a well-known Persona fanboy who knows what he's talking about with these games.

    Digital Foundry tech review

    IGN Review (Michael Higham)

    Finally, the opening cinematic got released in early January, and certainly proves that the game's still got it when it comes to style and music.

    Definitely looking forward to it. I played both FES and P3P close to their initial release dates (2008 and 2010, respectively), and loved them to death, but with it having been more than a decade now, it's all pretty blurry for me... which should make it all the more enjoyable, as I'm more liable to be genuinely surprised at times. While the newer games made clear gameplay improvements (e.g., I won't miss the fatigue system, or reversed social links, or needing to manually register every new persona), I remember P3 having my favorite story, characters, and social links, so I'm really interested to see how it all hits me after so much time.

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    Locclo

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    I'm really curious to try it out. I loved both P4G and P5, even beat 5 twice (once at launch, once when P5R came out). I've always heard people speak highly of the story and characters, but I was never brave enough to try and deal with the gameplay. I'm thrilled it's on Game Pass day one so I can give it a shot.

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    Ben_H

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    #3  Edited By Ben_H

    I've avoided everything outside of the first two trailers and one tiny preview thing so I'm going in almost entirely cold. I generally loved Persona 3 FES though that game is extremely tough to go back to now because of how rough several aspects of the gameplay are. The various quality of life improvements in basically everything from Persona 4 onward aren't in FES which makes things as simple as fusing Personas a huge pain in the butt (If you've only played Persona 3 Portable and later games and haven't seen the Endurance Run: You know that fusion search thing? Persona 3 and vanilla Persona 4 don't have that. You have to manually go through every combination of potential groupings to see what fusions you get. Also, you have to repeatedly try fusions to get the right spells you want instead of picking them. That's how Vinny and Jeff would end up spending whole episodes of the Endurance Run fusing rather than it being like 10 minutes max) I think in one of the various Persona 3 FES threads a year or two back I said "they need to remake this game but with all the modern updates" and it sounds like this is that, which is perfect.

    I actually went back and played P3 FES (except The Answer. I won't miss The Answer. I saw people hand-wringing about this new one not having the Answer and it's like, do these people hate themselves?) part way through last year and played a bit more of the NG+ a couple months back so I'm quite fresh on what was in that game. It'll be neat to see what they changed.

    I bought it rather than subscribing to Game Pass both because I want to play it on my Steam Deck but also because I tend to go back to these games a ton so I'm sure I'll get my money out of it.

    Anyhow I probably won't post anymore until I've played the thing. Too bad there's no pre-loading it on Steam. I bought it earlier today because I wanted to but it doesn't seem that you can.

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    Efesell

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    I'm still salty about not including the better protagonist (and probably charging me more to play that later) but yeah I'm still excited to play it assuming I can chew through Infinite Wealth in a timely manner.

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    Ben_H

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    #5  Edited By Ben_H

    I'm about 45 minutes in so far. This seems great so far. It follows the source material almost exactly. I randomly replayed the first few hours of P3 FES a couple weeks back so I remember it all and this game is almost identical. It's extremely noticeable how much smoother this game is to play compared to the old version. When you get to the school they actually tell you what to do rather than vaguely saying "You should find what class you're in" then dumping you to figure out what that means on your own and the minimap makes finding things a lot simpler.

    I was worried about how the music would end up but it seems pretty decent so far. It's different but still works. I was reserving judgement until I got to a section that had "When The Moon's Reaching Out Stars" (that name is still hilarious) because that was best song in the old game but the new version is good too.

    I really like the intro cinematic.

    There's a pride flag pin in the one of the intro anime scenes and a female student talks about how much she... admires... Mitsuru. The old director guy that seemed shitty is well and truly gone.

    My first "Wait, what?!?" moment was... seeing that the hallways in the school are now all one area, which, why wouldn't they be? It's not a PS2 game. It just surprised me because I've played Persona 3 several times and that's how it's always been.

    They fixed the scaling for the bed in the MC's dorm room. It no longer appears to be 12 feet long and 8 feet wide.

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    Efesell

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    @ben_h: I am also having this "Yeah man, it's a remake of course it does" moment with some things. Like with all the extra voice over.

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    SpunkyHePanda

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    @ben_h said:

    There's a pride flag pin in the one of the intro anime scenes and a female student talks about how much she... admires... Mitsuru. The old director guy that seemed shitty is well and truly gone.

    Mitsuru admirer was in the original as well. It was good to see her again.

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    Efesell

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    The hours that this Rewind feature would have saved me back in the day...

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    AtheistPreacher

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    I'm only a little ways in and likely won't have much more time to play for a while until next week. Pretty good so far, but I do have a few little disappointments.

    • The original let you choose between one of three sports clubs. It was the same social link and played out the same way, basically just a cosmetic swap. But in Reload you don't get a choice, it's track and that's it, no more kendo or swimming. Not really a huge deal, but it also feels like the devs are almost taunting you, because there's still doors for kendo and swimming that say something like "Sorry, the kendo/swim team is no longer recruiting new members!" How hard would it really have been for them to make a few more small environments and animations?

    • Fatigue as a system is apparently gone, but now you can no longer restore all HP/SP for free at the base of Tartarus. Instead it takes seven "twilight fragments," which are also used to open locked chests. In a combat system that almost entirely revolves around using SP to hit enemy weaknesses, this is a bummer, because a very finite amount of SP means you're incentivized to simply use physical attacks unless you really need to use SP, and that's not a particularly fun way to play.

    • Also, I should mention that I collected all these twilight fragments from around the exterior areas, and it's not clear to me yet whether I'll keep needing to re-check every zone of the damned game every day for these things. If so, that's going to get really old really fast. I'm hoping that instead these were just one-time pick-ups to get you started, and then you'll mostly find them in Tartarus itself. I guess we'll see.
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    SpunkyHePanda

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    #10  Edited By SpunkyHePanda

    • Fatigue as a system is apparently gone, but now you can no longer restore all HP/SP for free at the base of Tartarus. Instead it takes seven "twilight fragments," which are also used to open locked chests. In a combat system that almost entirely revolves around using SP to hit enemy weaknesses, this is a bummer, because a very finite amount of SP means you're incentivized to simply use physical attacks unless you really need to use SP, and that's not a particularly fun way to play.

    Likely a hot take, but I always appreciated the fatigue system. On paper, it feels better to give players more freedom to choose how to divide their time between the life sim and dungeon crawling halves of the game. In reality, why would anyone waste several valuable time slots in a dungeon when they can cram all of it into a single day? A common complaint about Persona 5 was that the dungeons were too damn long, and that's because they were designed to be broken up across multiple days, but you were actively punished for doing so. I don't think fatigue is the best solution (probably better to reward taking breaks instead of punishing you for not), but I think it helped maintain a solid balance between the two halves of the game in a way subsequent Personas haven't.

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    Ben_H

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    The voice acting in this game in general is great but the added voice acting for S-links rules. The person who did the voice for Yuko (the team manager) did an excellent job.

    I really dig what they did for Tartarus. I was initially concerned about the changes they made with regards to SP and stamina, but in reality it hasn't been a problem. When first starting you are low on SP a lot, but they chuck items at you constantly and after you've levelled up enough you can just fly through the first 10 floors over and over and collect more items since some of the stuff on the floors respawn. I'm using items as I get them rather than hoarding them like in the old games and it's making it so I almost never have issues with running out of health or SP.

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    ZombiePie

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    @atheistpreacher said:
    • Fatigue as a system is apparently gone, but now you can no longer restore all HP/SP for free at the base of Tartarus. Instead it takes seven "twilight fragments," which are also used to open locked chests. In a combat system that almost entirely revolves around using SP to hit enemy weaknesses, this is a bummer, because a very finite amount of SP means you're incentivized to simply use physical attacks unless you really need to use SP, and that's not a particularly fun way to play.

    Likely a hot take, but I always appreciated the fatigue system. On paper, it feels better to give players more freedom to choose how to divide their time between the life sim and dungeon crawling halves of the game. In reality, why would anyone waste several valuable time slots in a dungeon when they can cram all of it into a single day? A common complaint about Persona 5 was that the dungeons were too damn long, and that's because they were designed to be broken up across multiple days, but you were actively punished for doing so. I don't think fatigue is the best solution (probably better to reward taking breaks instead of punishing you for not), but I think it helped maintain a solid balance between the two halves of the game in a way subsequent Personas haven't.

    I'm actually with you and I think it speaks to a larger issue I am having with the game. Look, I don't think Tartarus is a great dungeon in the original game; in fact, I consider it an all-time worst outside of the first-person dungeon stuff in 1. However, Tartarus feels like grueling work for a reason. Persona 3 is all about feeling like this alternate world embodies the inevitability of death, and making things easier kind of undermines its narrative utility.

    Also... I really really really really really hope the "leaks" about the future of this game's DLC is a lie.

    fuck

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    Efesell

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    #13  Edited By Efesell
    @zombiepie said:

    Persona 3 is all about feeling like this alternate world embodies the inevitability of death, and making things easier kind of undermines its narrative utility.

    I find myself very tired of this argument specifically, I've seen it for the Rewind feature too. Like some folks being all "Wow way to completely undermine the theme" as though they weren't all reading penguin_knights S.link guide step by step and reloading when they skipped a line anyway.

    As for DLC leaks.. I mean yeah it's most believable thing in the world that they'd sell the Answer eventually. Maybe they'll make it worth playing.

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    ZombiePie

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    @efesell said:
    @zombiepie said:

    Persona 3 is all about feeling like this alternate world embodies the inevitability of death, and making things easier kind of undermines its narrative utility.

    I find myself very tired of this argument specifically, I've seen it for the Rewind feature too. Like some folks being all "Wow way to completely undermine the theme" as though they weren't all reading penguin_knights S.link guide step by step and reloading when they skipped a line anyway.

    As for DLC leaks.. I mean yeah it's most believable thing in the world that they'd sell the Answer eventually. Maybe they'll make it worth playing.

    Well, here's my actual point. As I have laid out on at least two occasions, I don't actually think people who have become invested in the Persona series via 4 or 5 should go back to Portable or FES. I really don't. Those games are crusty as all Hell and they are downright infuriating to play. Reload is the game for them and it is a perfectly fine thing. Nonetheless, there's no doubting the fact that things and mechanical intent and purpose are different which results in this game being less of a "definitive version of Persona 3," and more of a segue to these characters for a new generation that grew up with specific series conventions and stand-bys.

    Reload is never going to be the Persona 3 game or take of this universe for me, but it never was meant to be that. And you know what? That's fine, but I still feel it's apt to point out that this delineation exists.

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    Efesell

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    Maybe it simply caught my ire because I know there's probably an 18 year old dusty Gamefaqs thread where I'm defending Tartarus for being bad on purpose and I hate that.

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    AtheistPreacher

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    #17  Edited By AtheistPreacher

    With regard to the fatigue system and tight SP restrictions (or at least tight-ish), I don't think anyone doubts the design intent: the devs are trying to place some limits that discourage people from doing all their dungeon-crawling in one night, which is otherwise incentivized due to the game's overall focus on efficient time management. I'm just not really in love with either solution to that problem.

    I'm going to go into some detail about my reasoning here, but the TL:DR of this is that I'd prefer instead that they added more "hard stops" to dungeon exploration, in concert with making it easier to max all S.Links without the use of a guide; that would ultimately accomplish their design intent for shorter stints in dungeons in a more elegant way.

    I'll start by saying that I've come to realize that I'm just not a big fan of high difficulty in turn-based JRPGs in general--and in Persona specifically--and I think the reason is that the difficulty in such games largely comes down to numbers, which no amount of mechanical skill can overcome. E.g., a lot of my favorite games are difficult action games like Monster Hunter and the Souls games, etc., games in which an extremely skilled player could theoretically put together a win against a relatively high-level enemy no normal person could beat, because those games can in theory be played flawlessly, without the player ever taking a hit at all. But with a turn-based JRPG like Persona? You can't actually beat the Reaper with your level 1 protagonist, it's just not possible because you can't avoid damage through skill, it's just a dice roll that you're going to lose, because your level 1 dice suck. The Reaper is gonna get the first turn with his way higher agility, hit you once, and you're dead. Period.

    In a situation like that, I can't say I find a high difficulty level all that appealing, and especially not the idea of tuning it up, because I don't like getting beat up any more than I have to in battles that are determined to such a great extent by stats and dice rolls. I just don't see what's fun about that. I don't turn the difficulty down, either, because ultimately I do want some sense of accomplishment. But for the most part in these games I tend to just grind a lot early on to give myself a bit of an advantage that I can carry through the rest of the game. Also, I just like fusing all the personas and seeing what cool combination of abilities I can get next; in these games that tends to be more compelling for me than the combat itself.

    I never liked fatigue because it was such a bizarre half-measure. In the end, it didn't actually restrict you from grinding as much as you wanted. Sure, your other party members might all leave and you'd get the "tired" status, but since the protagonist could still be forced back into Tartarus and was the most versatile character anyway with the persona-switching, you could just keep on grinding. It was still very worthwhile even with just the one character, particularly since the protag's stats are determined by the equipped persona, so getting the character leveled up really increased your power hugely by unlocking more powerful persona possibilities. Also, in P3P in particular, the status was really easy to get rid of the next day with "Yawn-B-Gone." Fatigue as a gameplay system was just really wonky and half-assed.

    As for not being able to freely refill your SP, I think it's a problem that the combat revolves almost solely around exploiting enemy weaknesses, and yet by having a low SP pool you are incentivized to not engage with that core combat conceit, and instead just do regular weapon attacks. Which is very boring! I should perhaps point out here that if SP was still freely refillable at the base of Tartarus, I wouldn't mind the combat in generally being tuned harder... in fact, it probably should be. Because at that point you've got a lot more control and theoretically should be able to get through most fights with a combination of initiating fights with an ambush and exploiting whatever weaknesses there are to exploit. Doing that with a higher difficulty that punishes you more for mistakes is more active and engaging than tight-fistedly managing your SP pool.

    What if instead there was no fatigue, and also you could still refill your SP, and they just did what I suggested at the top: a combination of putting more hard stops into Tartarus exploration, and making the schedule less tight? Think for a minute about what that would do.

    As to the first, putting more hard stops in dungeon exploration would simply break up the action more and make it feel less sloggy and grindy. E.g., when you first enter Tartarus you can go all the way to floor 22, with a boss every five floors or so. They could instead stop you at floor 10 or 11 pending story progress. P5 already did something like this with the palaces that required doing something in the real world in order to continue to the second half.

    Now, doing that does put even more pressure on players to try to manage their time efficiently, so that they can max all their S.Links before the end of the year and see all of the story without needing to wade into a second play, which I think is ideally what most people would prefer. That's where making it a little easier to max all your S.Links comes in.

    Look, I played both P3:FES and P3P and didn't use a guide for either one, and even though I was trying my best to manage my time efficiently, I still didn't come anywhere close to reaching the end of every S.Link. It's basically impossible without following a day-by-day guide. In both cases I then got halfway through a second play to try to see the things I'd missed, but in both cases I ultimately ran out of steam halfway through (these games are awfully long, after all). Meanwhile, P4, as I understand, is not much better in this regard (I never actually played P4, just watched the endurance run... I've tried to start it several times but haven't been able to get into it).

    But P5... my absolute favorite thing about that game in relation to the others is that you simply don't need a day-by-day guide to max everything, like at all. As long as you're hip to a few time-saving tips, like exploiting the abilities of the Temperance and Fortune confidants, you can max every relationship in that game with about a month to spare... and a month in one of these games is a ton.

    The great thing about that, once you realize how much slack P5 gives you to still finish everything--even if you're not giving ideal responses during confidant hang-outs, or doing everything 100% optimally--is that players who want to see everything the game has to offer in a single play can nonetheless give themselves permission to not use a guide, and to not do all of a dungeon or dungeon section in a single night, and still squeeze all the juice out of the experience. IMO using a guide kind of sucks all the fun out of these games; they're games about time management as much as anything else, and removing player choice from that aspect by using a day-by-day guide makes the whole thing feel pretty dead and rote. But if it's generally known that you've got some decent leeway to be non-optimal, it's more likely that people will actually role-play rather than run to a guide. And that, paired with more hard stops in Tartarus, ends up addressing the design intent of both fatigue and more limited SP (i.e., doing dungeons in shorter bursts rather than lengthy slogs).

    Anyway... that was a lot, and there's probably still other things I've forgotten to say about this. But hopefully it makes sense to whoever actually takes the time to read it all. Also, I should probably emphasize that I actually have no idea how much slack P3R gives you in terms of its schedule, only that the original games were very tight in this regard. It's something that will only become known as more people who aren't resorting to guides start to finish it.

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    Efesell

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    @atheistpreacher: There's already a max S.link guide out there and it's pretty down to the wire as well.

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    AtheistPreacher

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    #19  Edited By AtheistPreacher
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    AtheistPreacher

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    Now there seems to be confirmation from data-mining that the DLC rumors are true:

    "The Answer" + music and costumes. As an "expansion pass."

    Yeah, think I'll probably just skip that.

    However, even though Atlus has said they have no plans to do an expanded re-release, I just don't necessarily believe them.

    “We are not considering a revision like with Persona 5 to Persona 5 Royal, which involved significant changes and additions to the original title,” said production manager Kazuhisa Wada. “Fans can rest assured knowing that Persona 3 Reload offers a complete experience.”

    Seems like that could easily just be a line they're trotting out to get people to buy their game now, only to in fact re-release it with FemMC a few years down the line. I'm going to remain skeptical until and unless we hit at least 2026 and still haven't heard anything. Atlus just loves their double-dipping so much.

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    SpunkyHePanda

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    @atheistpreacher: I should clarify, I think it was the fatigue system combined with the fact that the dungeon crawling took place at night when there was little else to do that made me feel comfortable leaving a dungeon when my party members got tired. In fact, having played through a bit more of Reload, nights feel flexible enough that I'm okay just leaving Tartarus when my SP gets low and I don't particularly miss the fatigue system. If an extra trip to Tartarus means passing up a point or two of a social stat, who cares. You're right, it's about making players feel comfortable with the idea that it's okay to take breaks, and I think something like your idea would work well. I think the simplest (and maybe most drastic) solution would be to make it so going to the dungeon doesn't use a time slot or can only be done in a time slot separate from every other activity. I mean, the Dark Hour literally exists outside of time. It's how going to Tartarus should have worked all along.

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    Ben_H

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    #22  Edited By Ben_H

    Yeah, there being new ways of upgrading social stats (the strip mall restaurants, the computer software shop, the jobs, etc.) makes it much easier to justify spending additional nights in Tartarus. I'm on the second section of Tartarus and while I technically finished it in one go, it is not the way I'd recommend doing it for newer players since it was much harder than leaving part way through, buying better gear with the money earned on the first run, then going back and finishing it off, which is what the game seems to want you to do.

    Are there ways of optimizing a playthrough to make going through a section of Tartarus in one shot without it being a pain? Of course. I've thought of several different ways to do that. But I'm not going to for this run since for my first runs of Persona games I tend to follow the game's signposting for what to do and when to do it since that's their intended experience. With their intended experience and going to Tartarus at times when they mention to (which is what the large majority of people playing do according to their stats menu thingy), the best way of handling Tartarus is to do it in multiple goes, not unlike how it went in Persona 3 and FES. According to the stats menu, most people on the section I'm on are several levels lower than me and stopped part way through the section, which is what I expected given how they seem to be intending you to handle Tartarus (see spoiler section for explanation of why I say this).

    In general, most of my concerns about how the various changes they made to the game work have gone away as I've played the game more. They put a lot of thought into how to improve this game while still making it feel like Persona 3. Tartarus is still Tartarus. They didn't make this game noticeably easier based on my experience of recently playing FES. If you push too far into Tartarus without the right levels or gear, you can still get wrecked pretty quickly. Tartarus is still a slog, it's just less monotonous now.

    Tartarus Mechanics that appear in section 2 spoilers within:

    P3R softly prevents you from zipping through Tartarus in a single shot not by using fatigue, but by making you do a gauntlet of mini-boss fights that act as a level/skill/gear check. In the second section of Tartarus you have to do two separate rather difficult mini-boss fights in a row with no chance of returning to the entrance between them. These fights are genuinely very difficult if you don't have upgraded gear and haven't recently done fusing to get Personas with the right spells. One of the enemies can comfortably hit characters for 3/4 of a health bar and at times one-shot characters. I barely made it through them without upgrading gear and it took multiple attempts. For people who are not as experienced with Persona games, these bosses act as giant signposts to go back, get better gear, and level up. This signposting worked because the floor prior, which has a fast travel point, is where most of the people playing the second section seemingly stopped for a few in game days.

    This was one of the only places so far where I've ignored the game's signposting and doing so has made it clear why they want you to stop where they do. I'll be going back to Tartarus again anyway since I want to get more items and money since Tartarus pays way better than the various jobs so far.

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    AtheistPreacher

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    I think the simplest (and maybe most drastic) solution would be to make it so going to the dungeon doesn't use a time slot or can only be done in a time slot separate from every other activity. I mean, the Dark Hour literally exists outside of time. It's how going to Tartarus should have worked all along.

    Agree, and of course this is exactly what P5 ended up doing, it was just that they did it through the rank 10 Temperance confidant ability. Frankly, I'm a little surprised and disappointed that they didn't add these sorts of bonuses to P3R's S.Links, it would have made ranking them up even more rewarding, added more of a strategy layer to who you rank up first, and could have loosened up the tight schedule all at the same time. But oh well, I guess. It is what it is.

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    Efesell

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    I'm always following guides to get all that Content so curious to see how that's going to go with those Tartarus mechanics, I haven't gone through the whole thing but a cursory glance seems to indicate that it still wants you to binge a whole lot of it at once.

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    SpunkyHePanda

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    Most underrated new feature: NPC icons being grayed out if they have nothing new to say, even if it's a new day. A godsend.

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    Ben_H

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    #26  Edited By Ben_H
    @spunkyhepanda said:

    Most underrated new feature: NPC icons being grayed out if they have nothing new to say, even if it's a new day. A godsend.

    That feature along with anyone you can talk to appearing as dots on the mini-map are both game-changing features that rule so much. There's several little additions to this game compared to even P5R that are all really great additions.

    Separately, incredibly trivial non-story spoiler The TTS (Time To Stupei) is this game is quite different compared to the older versions of the game. I was wondering if they had removed any reference to that nickname but they saved it for a key moment further into the game. In FES they basically open the game with Yukari calling Junpei an idiot and then referring to him as Stupei.

    As a random aside, the MC's MP3 player had me randomly thinking about old tech (though the game calls his MP3 player cutting edge, which is hilarious). Did anyone else have that type of MP3 player? I had a stick MP3 player like that with the neck lanyard and everything. It ruled. It was 128MB and only held like 2 albums worth of 128kb/s MP3s. I still have it somewhere. It was an iRiver that one used a single AA battery and had a radio built in too. I eventually graduated to the first iPod nano but I still got a lanyard case for that because it was such a useful form factor.

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    Efesell

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    I feel like it's just normal for them at this point but it really is astounding how good the general menu aesthetic is in this game. The status screens, all the unique all-out-attack victory screens.. the games just a real joy to look at sometimes.

    I wish more games realized how much a persistent Personality adds to the experience, even in normal places like The Menu.

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    Ben_H

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    This game's really good. Way better than I was expecting. I'm not sure if it is because of the limited scope of the game they were remaking or what but everything is extremely polished and sharp. I'm a couple months into it now and they just keep adding more stuff and making the surrounding world more interesting. It's definitely one of the most impressive remakes I've played.

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    AtheistPreacher

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    @ben_h: Good to hear! I've still barely started, I was busy with work this weekend but I'm planning to play it more today.

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    Efesell

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    #30  Edited By Efesell

    I think my only major beef so far is that... I really need a lot of this game to just move faster.

    Like we hit an age of JRPGs understanding that... a speed up button for combat really kicks ass and I feel that lack as I watch a group of tables slowly animate a Zio spell at me one at a time.

    Even Rush mode feels slow!

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    AtheistPreacher

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    @efesell: You're not wrong. I did have the same thought. The speed up feature seems to work really well for whenever you have to use the Rewind feature and speed through conversation you've already heard. But for battles where there are animations happening, for some reason they don't actually seem to speed up that much.

    I just finished my second 20-floor dungeon romp up to floor 40-something, wherever the barrier is that point. Game's pretty good so far but I'm still waiting for the story to really get started.

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    Ben_H

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    #32  Edited By Ben_H

    Everything they've added for Koromaru is delightful.

    Koromaru additions spoilers:

    You can pet him whenever you see him in the dorm. You can watch DVD documentaries about wolves with him so he can learn to be stronger (I can't remember if this happened in FES or not. It's funny either way). He's still almost broken good as a team member for the middle of the game because of his 125 evasion and he still hits really hard even with how the game was rebalanced. He was one of my staple team members in FES and has been so far in this game too. If you take both him and Aigis as party members into Tartarus, Aigis will translate all of his barks for you. His all-out attack animations are fantastic. There's other stuff too but it's clear they knew what they had so they went the extra mile to make sure that the dog teammate delivered in terms of being a fun addition.

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    SpunkyHePanda

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    #33  Edited By SpunkyHePanda
    No Caption Provided

    My wall disappeared.

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    Ben_H

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    #34  Edited By Ben_H

    I'm pretty far into this game now. Apparently quite a bit further than most people judging by the Steam achievement percentages. My previous comment that this game is an extremely good remake still stands.

    The most impressive thing is that Tartarus still feels like Tartarus from the old games despite how different it looks. The early concerns that they were going to trivialize Tartarus definitely did not come to pass (I just spent 4 hours in it last night. It can comfortably occupy entire evenings, just like in the later parts of FES when fatigue becomes a non-issue. I use it as podcast listening time while I play through it). It's still tricky and requires a lot of time to finish along with planning for SP. They do add some things to add to the variety of it but for the most part you are still primarily exploring it like you did in the old game.

    Fears that they changed too much and Persona 5-ized the game are also wide of the mark (this was my biggest fear. I found Persona 5 Royal way too easy), at least what I've seen so far anyway. I'm getting to the part of Tartarus where enemies use Hama and Mudo spells and like FES, you aren't protected from it like in the later Persona games (S-links in P3R work like S-links in P3 FES. There aren't perks to getting them like the teammate S-links in Persona 4 and 5 that protect you from insta-death spells). Tartarus is still ruthless in the second half of the game. The only difference is if you die to an instant kill spell, you don't lose an hour or more of progress like you did in FES (that happened to me several times on my last playthrough of FES. It sucked).

    Fusing is streamlined compared to FES but given how much of a chore it was in that game, it makes sense they'd do this. They didn't make fusion completely break in a way that allowed you to trivialize all combat like they did in P5R, but instead kept a simpler system that is essentially a streamlined version of the P3 one (It reminds me of Persona 4 Golden's fusing). They didn't change much about the game at all really compared to FES outside of getting rid of a few problematic things that needed getting rid of (the beach scene is rewritten, etc.) and smoothing out the roughest parts of the gameplay. They instead fleshed out the weakest parts of the old games (you running out of things to do in the evening, fusion, invisible timers on S-links, etc.) while keeping the strongest parts as is.

    I do actually think this game could serve as a definitive version of Persona 3/Persona 3 FES much like Persona 4 Golden is for Persona 4. This game is still Persona 3. It feels like Persona 3. It plays like Persona 3. It sounds like Persona 3 (the new music fits in perfectly with the old music and the remade versions of songs are all great). The game's whole vibe is exactly the same. The game's updates feel much more in line with what was done in Persona 4 Golden than a reimagining and rebalancing of the game to make it more approachable for people whose first Persona was Persona 5. It's finally a version of Persona 3 that I could actually recommend to people. I loved FES but the last 25 hours of it had a lot of genuinely infuriating aspects to it (see previous comment about losing hours of progress to insta-death spells. Also boss fights that could one-hit kill you and require you to button through 10 minutes of text to get back to to try again, spending hours and hours trying fusion combinations, losing S-links because of invisible clocks the game didn't warn you about, etc.) that made it impossible to recommend. This game fixes all of the worst things while keeping all of the things I loved about the old game and staying true to what the old game was.

    The only thing I'd change is swap when "When The Moon's Reaching Out Stars" and the new evening song that plays when you're at the mall or the strip mall at night play. In my brain, "When The Moon's Reaching Out Stars" is the evening song.

    When I posted in one of the other Persona 3 threads about what I would want to see in a Persona 3 remake, this is exactly what I had in mind. It's honestly almost perfect.

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    @ben_h: Glad you're still really enjoying it. I thought I would be going at this game harder, but the "problem" has been that Helldivers 2 came out a week after P3R's release, and that game has diverted my attention entirely (I did have it on my list of games 2024 I was looking forward to). It's so good, one of the best cooperative online games I've played in years. At this point I'm just hoping I can finish P3R by the time Dragon's Dogma 2 comes out on March 22. But I think I'll still be helldiving for a while.

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    ll_Exile_ll

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    #36  Edited By ll_Exile_ll

    @ben_h: I agree with pretty much everything you've said here, but I would also like to add that the expanded scope of voice acting is awesome and something I've wished the series would do for a while. Having every social link fully voiced is what I've always wanted for one of these games, and the voice acting itself is all great too.

    Not to mention all the additional night time scenes with the crew that are all fully voiced, including very specific ones like group study sessions that always happen on the same date so you get these cool extra scenes with the party where they all talk about things relevant to that point in the game. The original game definitely had a problem where you basically ran out of stuff to do at night a little more than halfway through the game, and while that still will eventually happen, all these extra night time activities with party members delays the point where you run out of stuff by several months.

    I also think their solution to the guys not having s-link originally was pretty nice, giving them these "not quite s-link" series of events that trigger throughout the game, condensing an s-link type storyline into 5 longer events instead of 10 and giving stat rewards instead of the usual s-link progress.

    All told, this game has so much more voice acting than any other game in series by a wide margin. It's great.

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    SpunkyHePanda

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    #37  Edited By SpunkyHePanda

    @ll_exile_ll: Replacing the entire main voice cast was a pretty wild move, but I'm surprised at how quickly and easily I adapted to the new voices. I mean, it's clear from the moment Mitsuru opens her mouth that that's how exactly she's supposed to sound. And the performances I wasn't too fond of in the original (Fuuka, Ken, Chidori, Shinjiro) are much improved here. Turns out, once Fuuka is given a decent performance... I still don't like her. But it was a good try. The only real baffling change is that Koromaru is now voiced by a human. Look, it's a pretty good dog impression, but a dog is always gonna be better at sounding like a dog. I haven't looked into this because that would be insane, but it would be kind of great if all his voiced lines were unique recordings and the actor was given proper context for each one. That might win me over on the choice.

    And the only returning role is the one I was most worried they'd fuck up: Elizabeth. Iconic. Irreplacable. And Tara Platt hasn't missed a step. You know there are people out there who actually think Margaret is better? I don't associate with those people.

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    Ben_H

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    I did totally forget to mention the new voice acting and the sheer volume of it. It's excellent!

    I got used to the new voices almost immediately. Most of them sound quite similar to me (I fired up my one of FES saves from last year to compare) and those that are different generally are improvements over the old ones. The only one that stuck out as quite different for me was Akihiko but I stopped noticing after a few hours. The new Fuuka voice is so much better (still sounds like Fuuka but not delivered in a monotone). Also, the Tanaka voice actor definitely saw what the job was and went for it 110% (Tanaka's s-link is definitely the best payoff for having fully voiced s-links). Tanaka in this game sounds so incredibly sleazy and awful. Also yes, Elizabeth is still perfect. They must have known that of all the voices to not mess up, that one is probably the most important given how iconic it was in the old games among Persona fans (I'm on team Elizabeth too. Margaret is too aloof to ever attempt to do high jump).

    I've just been working through the various teammate pseudo-s-link thingies now that I've finished off leveling up the three social skills and yeah, so far they're generally great. They somehow made Ken not completely insufferable, which is quite a feat.

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    Efesell

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    I'm finally finding some time to put into this (Thanks Infinite Wealth/Rebirth) and I just sweeped a Tartarus mid-boss thanks to Mitsuru using Marin Karin and it felt like I won a dozen forum arguments I was in 15 years ago.

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    Ben_H

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    #40  Edited By Ben_H

    Finally rolled credits on this. What a game. I think of all the more modern Persona games from the original Persona 3 onward (I've played all of them from P3 FES through Persona 5 Royal), this might be the best one. Persona 3 was always a game that had a certain something that was missing in the other games, but the game itself was incredibly rough to go back to and had aged poorly in a bunch of aspects, some of which were almost game-ruining. This game fixed every single thing, big or small, I didn't like on my FES replay last year and they even added a bunch of small things I'd never even thought about that make the game a lot better to play. At the same time, it still feels like Persona 3. I was quite concerned they were going to Persona 5-ize the game, but outside of borrowing a couple smaller combat features from that game, they left the game completely faithful to the original Persona 3. My concerns they were going to change and more heavily script bits of the game were unfounded (Persona 3's intro few weeks is the opposite of Persona 5. In P3 they dump you into the game and slowly add in story rather than making you button through 4-5 hours of scripted story things before the game actually starts). This remake is much more like Persona 4 Golden than a remake of 3 intended for the P5 audience.

    The people that did this remake understood what everyone loved about Persona 3 and were extremely careful to make sure all of those elements were present. They did an incredible job ensuring the game still feels like Persona 3. They nailed the atmosphere of the game, which is probably the most important thing. Had they messed that up it would have ruined the whole game since the atmosphere of the game, and how it changes as the game goes on, is a huge part of the game. All of the changes made to characters and events in the game make perfect sense. The added pseudo-social links for the male teammates and Koromaru are all excellent and are faithful to those characters. The changes to Elizabeth's requests also worked well while not requiring you to keep a meticulous calendar like the ones in FES did (A huge portion of the requests in FES were missable and could only be done on specific days. It sucked). The added night activities and ways of levelling up teammate abilities (the kitchen activities, garden, etc.) were also excellent. Overall, pretty much every change made to the game in this remake makes sense. They didn't add any fluff. It's still an extremely lean game but you just don't run out of things to do anymore.

    Spoilers for the whole game within:

    The reworking of Tartarus is probably one of the best things they did in this game. It's still 250+ floors and still takes a long time to traverse, but they added enough to make it more interesting. The monad doors were a nice addition as were the silly gigantic golden hand dudes. In terms of difficulty, it's hard for me to judge since I've played these games so much, but the first 3/4 of Tartarus seemed about on par with FES. For the last bit they definitely lowered the frequency on seeing insta-death spells, which is a good thing since those wore out their welcome extremely quickly in FES.As an aside, the graphical update to Tartarus rules. That last black and white section of it looks incredibly good. If you actually go back to FES and look you'll see that each section's aesthetic is kind of still there but in Reload they just aren't all square-based since this isn't a PS2 game anymore.

    The bosses largely seemed the same as in FES. Most of them seemed about the same in terms of difficulty. They did rebalance my mortal enemy the roulette wheel boss a bit, which is a good thing since that boss was infuriating in FES as it could randomly team wipe you, forcing you to redo like 10 minutes of pre-fight dialog scenes and a whole school day. I can't judge the difficulty of Nyx since my party was over-levelled for that fight by a lot and I cruised through it. It did appear they got rid of the bullshit team wipe capability that boss had where they would give themself an extra action, give the whole party the fear status effect, then ghastly wail your entire party to death in a single turn all with no counter-play possible. Though the boss could still charm your team so the potential for the boss to be fully healed is still there. I did find it interesting they kept the "Burn My Dread" reprisal for the final section of Nyx even though that song isn't present in the game otherwise. I do wish they could have worked that song into the game somehow beyond it being there for a fraction of a second in the intro video.

    One of the most notable improvements they made to the later part of the game is everything related to Aigis. In the old game, after Aigis is brought back repaired, it's mentioned that she's improved, etc. but it's not all that noticeable outside of her S-link and a few of her dialog sequences. In this game, improved Aigis is almost a different character. Her line deliveries are universally completely different and her character art is updated to give her a bunch of different expressions so that she matches all the people. They went out of their way to emphasize how much Aigis has changed and it works really well.

    Another late game thing I noticed is that they did an excellent job with how the city deteriorates in the last month and a bit. In FES, they added all of the cult pamphlets, posters, and garbage but a lot of the environments looked fairly similar otherwise. In this version, they completely change the colour tone and lighting of the entire city in a way that makes it feel cold and soulless. Even in December before things truly start to get bad, more litter starts showing up and the city gets the vibe that something isn't right. It was a nice touch.

    I do appreciate that they didn't touch the ending in any way. Same with the music during the credits. This section is iconic to me and having it changed at all would have not been great. The credits song is one of my favourites in the whole game so I would have been bummed if they changed it.

    Also, the post-game updated main menu is such a nice touch. It's got that little piano refrain found in all of the music from the last month. They didn't have to do this but they did and it's great.

    Anyhow, time to New Game Plus this so I can do a completionist run. It appears they've kept the silly broken version of NG+ from FES, which, if you've played that you know what I mean (You keep literally everything. Money, levels, stat boosts, personas, most of your items. It completely breaks the game)

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    AtheistPreacher

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    I was playing this, then got sucked into Helldivers 2, then went back to this, then got sucked into Dragon's Dogma 2, and now I just finished that, so... probably will continue with P3R again?

    I had just gotten Aigis in my party and done the next 20 floors of Tartarus with her. Going by the calendar, I think I'm only like 40% of my way through (I'm in early August IIRC). The Persona games really do have ridiculously long hour counts. It seems quaint now that when I first picked up FES (that's the one I started with, never played vanilla P3) I worried that a fixed calendar meant the hour count would be shorter. Oh you sweet summer child...

    P3R is definitely good, but as evidenced by the fact that I put it down twice to play other games, I wouldn't say I've been enthralled by it. For quite a while there P3 was my favorite Persona game, including up to my first play of P5. Then I played Royal... a couple of times. At this point I have to say that one's my favorite. I don't really foresee this remake surpassing it for me... I guess it's possible that the back half could do it, but I don't think it's likely based on what I've seen so far.

    Small detail, but do you actually keep your level in NG+? I thought you started back at 1, but it didn't really matter anyway because you could just summon high-level personas from the compendium and head straight to Monad to level up quickly again if you wanted. But maybe that's just how P5 handled NG+ and I'm misremembering. In any case, as I think I've already said in this thread, I don't really play the Persona games for challenge/difficulty, I'm sort of fine with being overpowered, so that aspect of NG+ doesn't bother me.

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    Ben_H

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    #42  Edited By Ben_H
    @atheistpreacher said:

    Small detail, but do you actually keep your level in NG+? I thought you started back at 1, but it didn't really matter anyway because you could just summon high-level personas from the compendium and head straight to Monad to level up quickly again if you wanted. But maybe that's just how P5 handled NG+ and I'm misremembering. In any case, as I think I've already said in this thread, I don't really play the Persona games for challenge/difficulty, I'm sort of fine with being overpowered, so that aspect of NG+ doesn't bother me.

    Yup, you keep your level. They changed it in later games so that you only keep your compendium and social skill levels. For Persona 3 FES and P3R though, you do. It means you can easily do each section of Tartarus in one day then focus on the other parts of the game instead.

    Here's the list of what P3R lists is carried over in NG+ when you go to load your cleared save (spoiler for people who don't want to know): Personas, Persona Compendium, Analysis information, Stats, Social Stats, Protagonist level, Protagonist HP/SP gains outside of levelling, Teammate stat boosts from incense, Teammate HP/SP gains from outside of levelling, Items, Equipment, Skill Cards, Materials, Twilight Fragments, all costumes besides SEES uniforms, some souvenirs received from characters, items received from characters for unlocking personas, play time, money

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    AV_Gamer

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    Finished Persona 3 Reload, and it was a great ride from beginning to end. The ending is very touching, perhaps the most emotional ending in the series. I grew to like all the characters, the standout being Junpei, who I found annoying at first. A lot of people seem to hate on Yukari, but I think she was just as good as the other cast members. She is definitely the most important character to have in the party. I used her from beginning to end. I think the overall story has a very deep message, but this is true for all the Persona games. The final boss was interesting, because they were more personally invested than the other final bosses in the series, except maybe the one in Persona 5 Royal.

    I wasn't able to complete everyone's social link or even fusion the most powerful personas for the most part. The closet I got was fusing Susano-o and Thanatos. Both of them along with Loki were more than enough to beat the game. I made them even stronger with skill cards I collected over the course of the game. I was at level 91 and the final three battles prove to be quite doable. Really, the toughest battle in the game, turned out to be the reaper who chases you throughout Tartarus. Even at level 84 when I beat him, he was a pain. Out of all the girls I could romance, I chose Yuko the track and field instructor girl. Not the most popular choice, but I liked her most of all compared to the other girls, with Fuuka possibly coming in second, and Yukari third.

    Overall, I had a great time. With this game, Final Fantasy Rebirth, Dragons Dogma 2, Baldur's Gate 3, and more, we seem to be in a new golden age for RPGs. Now to wait for The Answer later this year, and FES possibly early next year.

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    Ben_H

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    @av_gamer said:

    Finished Persona 3 Reload, and it was a great ride from beginning to end. The ending is very touching, perhaps the most emotional ending in the series. I grew to like all the characters, the standout being Junpei, who I found annoying at first. A lot of people seem to hate on Yukari, but I think she was just as good as the other cast members. She is definitely the most important character to have in the party. I used her from beginning to end. I think the overall story has a very deep message, but this is true for all the Persona games. The final boss was interesting, because they were more personally invested than the other final bosses in the series, except maybe the one in Persona 5 Royal.

    Yukari is basically OP in the back half of the game if you play your cards right and unlock all of her extra stuff. She was a permanent fixture in my party too. Though she always was in my party in P3 FES too because she was the only party member with actual good healing abilities in that game until the very end of the game. They really leaned into "Yukari is the party healer" in this version of the game.

    Also yeah, the additions they made to the game helped a lot with making Junpei less insufferable. That also can be said of Ken.

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    #45  Edited By AtheistPreacher

    Now that I'm finally, actually finished with Dragon's Dogma 2 (and have done my write-up on it), I've picked up P3R again. I'm still not done, but getting there at a pretty good pace now; I'm currently at October 20 on the calendar. But I think I'm ready to share some general thoughts, though I'll have to wait until the end to judge the story as a whole... I'm really interested to see how it all plays out, since it's been long enough that I've forgotten a lot of the details.

    The first thing I just want to quickly mention is something that's already been brought up in this thread: the fully voiced Social Links. It's great that they committed to doing all that extra voice-work. It really does add a lot. And the only performances that I'd describe as "bad" are the ones for some of the really young kids (e.g., the kids Yuko coaches, or the kids Koromaru helps), which mostly don't sound like kids at all. That's sometimes a hard one to get right. But fully-voiced Social Links has been some of the lowest-hanging fruit for a while in terms of obvious ways to improve these games, so I'm glad they finally went and did it. Also neat that they got most of the original cast to voice other small roles (save Vic Mignogna, for obvious reasons).

    But in general, as I've alluded to already, I just haven't been having quite as good a time with this one as I've recently had re-playing P5R. I used to call P3 my favorite entry in the series, but that's just not the case any more, and I've been trying to pin down for myself exactly why that is. I think now I have a pretty good idea. There are a number of reasons, some more important than others. And P3 does still have some strengths over P5.

    I think that probably the biggest reason that I now prefer P5 over P3 is that the former has a much greater sense of urgency and purpose, along with clearly defined stakes and villains. Consider the difference for a moment.

    In P3, the dark hour is largely a mystery, none of the individual monthly battles carry any particular sense of urgency, the fights are against anomalous, faceless monsters, and it's not even clear what exactly will happen if your team just... left things alone. More apathy syndrome, I guess? And even walking around the dorm between the mandatory boss battles, your team often doesn't seem that concerned about it; they'll just say something like "I guess we should be prepared to fight that next big shadow in a couple of weeks, huh?" It all just feels... very routine and rote after the first several monthly boss battles. Sort of aimless... you're just fighting these big shadows and seeing what happens next.

    By contrast, in P5, not only do you get bespoke dungeons rather than randomized ones, but there is a clear villain for each palace, and clear, specific consequences for what will happen if you fail to steal that villain's heart in time. Each one has its place in P5's larger narrative, but they're all individually urgent and relevant to some particular character, usually a teammate. And an actual embodied villain is always more compelling than a faceless shadow or disembodied thing.

    That's a pretty big narrative handicap for P3 to overcome in relation to P5, and the only way it can do it is to lean on its individual Social Links harder. I do remember thinking that P3 had the strongest set of Social Links/Confidants. After re-playing it, it still might (close and very subjective call TBH), but by the very nature of how these work—in which you can stop spending time with someone for literally months and come back to it as if it was only days later—they're still not really a substitute for the narrative urgency P5's palaces provide.

    Also, while the fully voiced aspect is a nice improvement, P5 had the new gameplay wrinkle of each Confidant providing additional bonuses as they rank up, which made them more compelling from a gameplay perspective. The only reasons to hang out with particular people in P3 are that (1) you just particularly like that character, or (2) they happen to fit in your schedule that day. But all of them really only provide the same gameplay benefit: more bonus ranks to a fused persona in their arcana, and that's it. Whereas in P5 there are specific benefits to be gained from hanging out with particular Confidants, including a couple that actually help you rank up all the others faster. I found that extra incentive pretty compelling.

    Lastly, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I really like the fact that P5 gives you the tools to max all Confidants by the end of the game without using a guide with plenty of time to spare, whereas P3R still seems to make this nearly impossible. That's frustrating, because it leaves the player to choose between not seeing all the content (unless they want to return for another round of a 100+ hour game, which a lot of people just can't really do), or following a day-by-day guide that sucks most of the joy out of the experience by just turning the whole game into one giant checklist to follow.

    All of this is not to say that there aren't things I still like about P3. On balance, I think I still like its cast of characters best. I dig the whole evoker shoot-yourself-in-the-head thing and how it ties in with the game's themes. I think that I still like P3's ending the best (so far as I recall it! TBD!), in terms of its themes and its emotional impact. I also like, in principle, that it doesn't "steal" nearly so many calendar days from you as P5; the latter tends toward having week-long periods (or more) between palaces in which you are somewhat arbitrarily not allowed to hang out with your Confidants while the game tells its main story. Though I also admit that this aspect of P5 bothered me less on subsequent plays, because I just sort of accepted that this was something it did—and that the days weren't "stolen," but didn't actually exist to begin with.

    So, yeah. P3R is a good game. But as evidenced by the fact that I put it down twice for long periods to play other things, its narrative just isn't driving me forward, and I really think it's mostly because there's a serious lack of urgency there, not to mention the lack of a discernible villain or even clear stakes. P5 is a page-turner; P3 is not.

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    @atheistpreacher:

    Good update. I personally have a special place in my heart for the Phantom Thieves of Persona 5. Which is why I'll be getting back to Persona 5 Tactica, which I put down to play Persona 3 Reload, even though it's a real-time strategy game. I think that game has the overall best cast, and this is after being a Chie fan like many from Persona 4. As far as the sense of urgency, I felt it simply by noticing how more and more civilians were falling under Nyx influence of wanting to give up on life. And I think the overall storyline is about past sins needing to be made right, with the world ending being the consequence if it doesn't happen.

    I agree with the social links only being for maxing out Persona's instead of adding unique benefits. And it often gets in the way, because you're given the option to carry over abilities from fused Persona's, but this leaves little room for the abilities the new Persona unlocks, so you constantly have to pick and choose what to keep and what to get rid of, which feels tedious, not the sense of gaining great power. And even though a shop later opens where you can get some of these abilities back, if you felt you made a mistake, it still feels tedious. The effort to fuse some of the most powerful Persona's is also a chore.

    With that said, I still had a great time and think it was a very good remake. But then again, I have the benefit of not finishing the original Persona 3. I started it after I finished Persona 4, but the gameplay mechanics were so outdated, I quickly put it down. I'm looking forward to the future DLC updates.

    When Persona 6 happens, since it's been all but confirmed now, they need to do away with the social link issue of only being able to pick one person or activity a day. That's actually not realistic. You can spend time with multiple people and do many activities with a 24-hour period.

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    AtheistPreacher

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    #47  Edited By AtheistPreacher
    @av_gamer said:

    As far as the sense of urgency, I felt it simply by noticing how more and more civilians were falling under Nyx influence of wanting to give up on life. And I think the overall storyline is about past sins needing to be made right, with the world ending being the consequence if it doesn't happen.

    I'm glad that it worked for you, and apparently was enough for a lot of people. As you say, it probably doesn't help that I played both FES and Portable. But to me the comparison seems striking that P5 splits itself into a series of month-long mini-stories couched in a larger story, whereas P3 doesn't really have an equivalent, it just has the one main plot that ends up stretched very thin over 100+ hours. And when you think about it, P4 was quite close to P5 in this comparison... you had to rescue individual people from the TV world every month, and defeat their evil version, etc. I think those P4 stories were a little less developed, but they served the same function. Anyway, for me P3R has just seemed less engaging by comparison without those individual monthly carrots.

    @av_gamer said:

    When Persona 6 happens, since it's been all but confirmed now, they need to do away with the social link issue of only being able to pick one person or activity a day. That's actually not realistic. You can spend time with multiple people and do many activities with a 24-hour period.

    It's an interesting notion, but I just don't think that will ever happen. These games have always been about how to spend your time, and that you can't do everything. Making it more granular per day would just make it needlessly dense and complex, and probably even longer, for games that are already famously long (assuming they still want to continue doing basically a whole year).

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    #48  Edited By AtheistPreacher

    So I finally rolled credits on this. I ended up at 115 hours. These games remain really long. Anyway, some additional thoughts after finishing:

    • One thing I forgot to mention in my post from a week ago is that I appreciate that a lot of P3's S.Links actually having you interacting with other high students in and around school, doing schooly things. You hang out with a person in the art club, another in the fashion club, two on student council, and two on the track team. Compare that to P5, in which, outside of the first month of dealing with Kamoshida and starting most days from your homeroom, you'd hardly know that you were in high school at all. Joker isn't in any school clubs, and the only Confidants that see you hanging out anywhere near school are Ryoji (sort of, after running with him) and Maruki for counciling sessions. For a character who ostensibly sends half his waking life being a student, there is almost nothing of school life in P5. That seemed weird to me when I first played it and it still seems strange now.

    • I was disappointed when I beat the Reaper and discovered that doing so no longer unlocks a discrete Monad dungeon at the base of Tartarus. I'd thought that the new Monad doors on the upper floors were an addition rather than a replacement. Too bad, because I like extra secret dungeons like that on principle, and taking it away also makes it feel like beating the Reaper just doesn't really matter anymore. Yes, there's an achievement for it, and yes, it's an Elizabeth request. But it used to really matter for unlocking Monad, and it just doesn't anymore.

    • Normally in these games I like to get everybody's ideal equipment for a next cycle, but then I got to the end and discovered that end-game gearing is really obnoxious in this game. The big thing was that crafting all the best accessories (Spell Master, Arms Master, Ali Dance) requires a mat called a "Dead Moon's Husk," which can only be found in the January dungeon. You're only guaranteed two or three of these from one-time bosses, and the rest come randomly from green chests. You need something like 17 of them to fully gear everyone. But since chests don't respawn within the same night, and there are only a few green chests per run, and the drop rate for them is low on top of that... you end up needing to enter Tartarus a dozen separate times and save-scumming the green chests until you get the mat you need. When I saw how annoying this was going to be, I threw up my hands and said, "Fuck it, I guess I'm just not going to gear everyone." I honestly don't remember how exactly the OG P3, FES, and Portable approached end-game gearing, it's been too long, but I don't remember it being quite this bad. By contrast, P5R just wants you to itemize personas for this stuff, meaning that you never needed to worry about mats as long as you had enough cash to keep summoning from the compendium.

    • The main story was still good—though all the action really only happened in the last three months of the game. I'd remembered the really broad strokes but forgotten a whole lot of the details. It feels more... straightforward?... than the later games. More direct. P5's theme is basically: power corrupts. A timeless theme, sure, but P3's is: everything/everyone dies. Which, well. There's certainly plenty of material there. And P3's story still has some powerful emotional beats, even while much of it ain't exactly original.

    • I think the single thing that made me smile the most in this game was watching Ms. Toriumi freak out when she discovered who she'd been playing that online game with. I kept expecting it to end and she just kept freaking out, and it was magnificent and hilarious. Video link FWIW.

    • Music overall was fine, but not much of it stood out to me. I did really like the opening theme (I liked the opening in general and tended to watch it before each play session). The other standout for me was "Changing seasons," which was the song that played at school around the second half of the game.

    • Final parting shot: guys, did you really need to put ten-minute-long unskippable credits in the middle of your ending? Really? I get that you all worked hard on this game, but making the credits unskippable just doesn't accomplish anything. The people who would've skipped over it are just going to be annoyed with you and still not read them. They may even walk out of the room to make themselves a sandwich while those credits run and miss the end of the story. Just why?

    Anyway, P3R will almost assuredly end up on my top 10 GOTY list when all is said and done, I did enjoy my time with it overall... but everything I wrote a week ago still applies. I still think that it started to feel like a bit of a slog after a while, and that a lot of this comes down to there being too little main story stretched across more than a hundred hours. I don't think I'll be replaying it anytime soon, if ever... certainly not before we've reached a point where it's clear Atlus isn't going to be releasing a new version a few years down the line like they've done for every other one of these. If they do, and if it has Fem MC, then I will probably play that one, at least, and perhaps I'll like it better the second time around. What can I say, P3 used to be my favorite, and I really wanted to like this game more than I actually did.

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    Question: did you leave your game idling a bunch or did you actually spend a bunch of time doing extremely optional stuff? If you actually did spend 25-35 hours doing a bunch of tertiary grinding for things that are only there for the top 1% of completionists then I can see why you might view the game as a slog. I did all of the typical side stuff (requests, s-links, party member cooking things, etc.), did a whole bunch of extra (probably unnecessary) grinding for items/money, and did a bunch of fusing that I probably didn't have to and still ended up at 90 hours (most folks I've talked to who aren't as completionist-y finished the game in 70-80 hours), which felt like a reasonable length for one of these games. If you follow how the game signposts things, the game's pacing makes a lot more sense.

    But also, on the default difficulty this game is balanced like Persona 4 Golden and the Persona 5s in that you get so powerful at the end that gear kind of stops mattering to a certain degree. They dole out XP from bosses/mini-bosses such that by the time you hit the top of Tartarus, you're about level 85 and can comfortably fight the final boss with little to no extra levelling/grinding or fancier gear needed. In old Persona 3, you'd hit the top of Tartarus, be around level 70, then need to do 10+ hours of grinding to get above level 80 to even stand a reasonable chance against the final boss. I think P3R's combat levelling pacing setup is about perfect and a much better solution than P5R's solution of eventually allowing you to turbo the catbus through enemies in Mementos rather than fighting them normally, which let you break the game and rapidly get unlimited XP and money. This completely threw out any pretense that the combat and levelling actually mattered in P5R and felt like a lazy kludge fix meant to paper over the fact that Mementos was extremely boring and many hours too long for what it was.

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    #50  Edited By AV_Gamer

    @atheistpreacher: Glad you enjoyed it overall.

    About the first point you made about the social links. The only reason I can think of as to why Joker doesn't do a lot of school activities with students, is because he is an outcast. Remember, the whole point about the Phantom Thieves, is for one reason or another they're not liked by the community as a whole. Joker got the reputation as a delinquent and troublemaker, because of the false charge put on him. Ryuji is blamed for the track team being disbanded, even though he tried to stand up for them. Ann is hated by the girls at her school for being too pretty, spreading rumors of her being a slut. Makoto is seen as a teacher's pet, school snitch, a burden to her older sister, and so forth. Also, the people they go after are the opposite. They are horrible people in private, but publically have good reputations in the community. This theme continues in Strikers.

    But yeah, Persona 3 Reload will also end up on my personal Top 10, especially since this was my first play through of it and it was worth the wait.

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