I play old games (second impressions)

It is time once again after a long break for me to review old... games? Actually no. Unfortunately, Disgaea is a long game, as is Baldur's Gate, and with the release season almost upon us, I will probably only be able to finish one before Dragon Age comes out. So instead of bothering to review something new, I will take a look at some of the games I have reviewed previously and see how they have held up since I looked at them prior. Sounds good? Good. Let's go.

Goldeneye

Even I can agree that this is the best bond game
 
See original review here
Ah yes Goldeneye, my first attempt to give my impressions of a game in a rambling incoherent manner. Also the only one to have a post count higher than 10, because everything else I have played is far more obscure and less revered. Well, what do I think of it now, now that I have had more time to play it? It's still pretty good, although the one sticking point from my initial post still stands: the objectives aren't very clear and sometimes it's not your fault if you fail them. I have tried to play a little more Multiplayer, and it still is kind of dumb and shallow by today's standards, but that is to be expected.  
 

Resident Evil 3

 
See original review here
It's still no REmake
 
RE3 represents the beginning of the series' transition from "Survival Horror" (which still is not a genre) to a more action-oriented type of game. Thus an abundance of grenade ammo and gunpowder to make even more grenade ammo (Simply put, you don't need to touch the magnum because you have so many freeze rounds), far less focus on story, (not that the story in Resident Evil is really worth caring about) and some puzzles or item combinations that use questionable logic. This is in stark contrast to REmake (and RE0 to a lesser degree), which are all about running the hell away from zombies instead of shooting them and solving clever puzzles. I still enjoyed RE3, but it is the weakest in the series I have played so far... Once I eventually get Code Veronica you can fully expect me to review it at some point and see how that fares.
 
 

Jagged Alliance

 
See original review here (WALL OF TEXT WARNING)
Not worth $30

Perhaps I was a little harsh on Jagged Alliance. It certainly has it's charms... but not enough charm that I didn't sell it. I guess the reason I held it to a higher standard than every other game I have looked at (all of which have a "This game is hella old but that's ok" phrase in there somewhere), was because I spent the full price of a DS game on it. I could have gotten Devil Survivor, and seen why Video_Game_King hates it so much, or New Super Mario Bros, or something else that is actually worth $29.99 USD
 
Maybe if I got it for the PC I would think differently... nah. It still sucks. Don't buy it. 
 

The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall

 
See original thing here.
 The dungeons are still way too big

Daggerfall is still not a bad game. It may be full of some of the most pointless shit I have ever seen in a video game (I blame a lack of playtesting), but even with language skills, unnessesarily huge dungeons, towns, and pretty much everything else that screams "THIS GAME WAS MADE IN 1996 IN CASE YOU DIDN'T NOTICE!!!", I find that all the rough edges give it a certain old-school charm. That's not to say that I enjoy spending three hours in a dungeon trying to find a bear, but it is free, which really, really helps. To anyone who enjoys these kinds of games I recommend at least taking a look before you decide that it is way too janky to be worth playing. 
 
I think I will stop here. I can do second looks at Thief, Fallout, and Colonization some other time. Now I pose a question to you, the readers. Since I can't make a poll in a blog post, which game should I finish first: Disgaea or Baldur's Gate?
32 Comments
32 Comments
Posted by ArbitraryWater

It is time once again after a long break for me to review old... games? Actually no. Unfortunately, Disgaea is a long game, as is Baldur's Gate, and with the release season almost upon us, I will probably only be able to finish one before Dragon Age comes out. So instead of bothering to review something new, I will take a look at some of the games I have reviewed previously and see how they have held up since I looked at them prior. Sounds good? Good. Let's go.

Goldeneye

Even I can agree that this is the best bond game
 
See original review here
Ah yes Goldeneye, my first attempt to give my impressions of a game in a rambling incoherent manner. Also the only one to have a post count higher than 10, because everything else I have played is far more obscure and less revered. Well, what do I think of it now, now that I have had more time to play it? It's still pretty good, although the one sticking point from my initial post still stands: the objectives aren't very clear and sometimes it's not your fault if you fail them. I have tried to play a little more Multiplayer, and it still is kind of dumb and shallow by today's standards, but that is to be expected.  
 

Resident Evil 3

 
See original review here
It's still no REmake
 
RE3 represents the beginning of the series' transition from "Survival Horror" (which still is not a genre) to a more action-oriented type of game. Thus an abundance of grenade ammo and gunpowder to make even more grenade ammo (Simply put, you don't need to touch the magnum because you have so many freeze rounds), far less focus on story, (not that the story in Resident Evil is really worth caring about) and some puzzles or item combinations that use questionable logic. This is in stark contrast to REmake (and RE0 to a lesser degree), which are all about running the hell away from zombies instead of shooting them and solving clever puzzles. I still enjoyed RE3, but it is the weakest in the series I have played so far... Once I eventually get Code Veronica you can fully expect me to review it at some point and see how that fares.
 
 

Jagged Alliance

 
See original review here (WALL OF TEXT WARNING)
Not worth $30

Perhaps I was a little harsh on Jagged Alliance. It certainly has it's charms... but not enough charm that I didn't sell it. I guess the reason I held it to a higher standard than every other game I have looked at (all of which have a "This game is hella old but that's ok" phrase in there somewhere), was because I spent the full price of a DS game on it. I could have gotten Devil Survivor, and seen why Video_Game_King hates it so much, or New Super Mario Bros, or something else that is actually worth $29.99 USD
 
Maybe if I got it for the PC I would think differently... nah. It still sucks. Don't buy it. 
 

The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall

 
See original thing here.
 The dungeons are still way too big

Daggerfall is still not a bad game. It may be full of some of the most pointless shit I have ever seen in a video game (I blame a lack of playtesting), but even with language skills, unnessesarily huge dungeons, towns, and pretty much everything else that screams "THIS GAME WAS MADE IN 1996 IN CASE YOU DIDN'T NOTICE!!!", I find that all the rough edges give it a certain old-school charm. That's not to say that I enjoy spending three hours in a dungeon trying to find a bear, but it is free, which really, really helps. To anyone who enjoys these kinds of games I recommend at least taking a look before you decide that it is way too janky to be worth playing. 
 
I think I will stop here. I can do second looks at Thief, Fallout, and Colonization some other time. Now I pose a question to you, the readers. Since I can't make a poll in a blog post, which game should I finish first: Disgaea or Baldur's Gate?
Edited by ahoodedfigure

I'm curious about Disgaea myself, since I'm rather familiar with BG.  
 
The PC Jagged Alliance goes for what, like 4 or 6 bucks now...  I forgot if I asked you before, but have you ever played X-Com?

Posted by Video_Game_King

Here's why I hate it so much:
 
Freezing, a difficulty curve that shoots into the stars about halfway through, a translation rougher than many of the games I've played, a story that rips off TWEWY, its desire to be a GBA game (going so far as to not include touch screen controls at all), a final boss that can only be beaten with RNG abuse, and the fact that Final Fantasy Tactics has done everything this game is trying to do, except much, much better.

Posted by ArbitraryWater
@ahoodedfigure: Sadly, I have yet to play X-Com. If I really wanted to, I guess I could get it off steam, but that would require making a steam account and asking my mom for her credit card information. Disgaea is a lot like FFT, but it doesn't take itself too seriously and has a bunch of weird systems that aren't explained very well. Thankfully, it's also awesome, but I have played for around 10 hours and am only about a third through the story, so it's also pretty long.
 
@Video_Game_King: I see. Point taken. I guess Jagged Alliance is to me what Devil Survivor is to you: A muddled "strategy" mess, with unintuitive controls, messed up difficulty, and some serious technical problems.
Posted by Video_Game_King
@ArbitraryWater: 
 
Fair enough. Then what would be the game that did everything Jagged Alliance does, but much better? You know, what FFT is to me?
Posted by ArbitraryWater
@Video_Game_King said:
" @ArbitraryWater:   Fair enough. Then what would be the game that did everything Jagged Alliance does, but much better? You know, what FFT is to me? "
That, I do not know. From what Ahoodedfigure is implying, the answer is probably X-Com, or maybe S2: Silent Storm.
Posted by Eirikr
@Video_Game_King said:
" Here's why I hate it so much:  Freezing, a difficulty curve that shoots into the stars about halfway through, a translation rougher than many of the games I've played, a story that rips off TWEWY, its desire to be a GBA game (going so far as to not include touch screen controls at all), a final boss that can only be beaten with RNG abuse, and the fact that Final Fantasy Tactics has done everything this game is trying to do, except much, much better. "
I assume you're talking about Devil Survivor again. The freezing and to a lesser extent the difficulty is justified, but the story is basically identical to Shin Megami Tensei 1, only the setting is just a rip off of every game that takes place in Tokyo (Shin Megami Tensei and TWEWY included). The translation rough? Hell no. There's a few lines of untranslated Japanese in there that in three playthroughs I didn't even see. Persona 3 did have the same problem with that.
 
The game does have limited touch controls (more complex ones wouldn't have helped either; hell, the only touch controls for Strange Journey are to move the map around) but they are completely unnecessary. And the final boss was pretty challenging, but I beat it on my first try. You were just forced to pay attention to how skills evolved over the game. Comparing it to FFT is also unjustified. Even though they move on a grid doesn't mean the games have much to do with each other. 
 
I wouldn't say it's one of the best games I've ever played, but it's certainly good enough not to warrant these complaints pulled largely out of where the sun don't shine.
Posted by Video_Game_King
@Eirikr: 
 
I didn't finish the original SMT, but there's more reason to hate Devil Survivor: hyper-unoriginality.
 
Here's the thing: I've never played a completed fan translation with a single line of untranslated Japanese. I've seen maybe a fluke in the translation (a grammar error/too literal translation, for example), but I cut them slack because it's a fan translation. This game, however, is a professional retail product made by a company with the money, resources, and (hold on *checks Wikipedia*) time to create a professional translation and check it for errors. I didn't see any of this in Trauma Center (an Atlus game, too), so it can't be their special mark on games.
 
Wait, there are touch screen controls? And a decently challenging final boss? I assume you're talking about Strange Journey, because neither of these things were present when I played Devil Survivor. I even did all the research and found that there never were any touch screen controls, and yes, the final boss is unreasonably hard. Oh, and finally, yes, I would  compare it to FFT. They're both isometric strategy RPGs with a Shining Force-esque turn system and high focus on your abilities. The only difference is that it's far more balanced.
 
I'm seriously not pulling these out of my ass, these are all from my experiences with the game. I tried every strategic tactic I could think of, but the game seemed to despise me for it whenever possible. Hell, the four team limit makes it kind of hard to split up at all. I tried to split up, but the enemies would overwhelm me, I'd end up wasting MP on reviving my units, and the cycle would repeat itself.
Posted by Slippy

I think Resident Evil 3 being the worst in the series is a little harsh. Resident Evil 5, as a Resident Evil game, was much worse. The last hints of horror that were in RE3, and also RE4, were wrung out completely in RE5. Because of co-op, RE5 also lacked the feeling of isolation that RE3 had going for it at the best of times.
Posted by ArbitraryWater
@Slippy said:
" I think Resident Evil 3 being the worst in the series is a little harsh. Resident Evil 5, as a Resident Evil game, was much worse. The last hints of horror that were in RE3, and also RE4, were wrung out completely in RE5. Because of co-op, RE5 also lacked the feeling of isolation that RE3 had going for it at the best of times. "
I don't want to get into this. Basically I like both the old and the new RE games and believe that they have to be held to separate standards because otherwise you have crazy people going "RE4 and RE5 ARE NOT TEH TRU SURVIVAL HOROOR BLAH BLAH BLAH". 
 
But don't worry. I have yet to play Code Veronica, and for all I know it could be far worse than RE3. And I never said I didn't like RE3, but that it is the weakest one I have played so far.
Posted by Eirikr
@Video_Game_King: Sigh...really, comparing it to a fan translation? I thought you were the Video Game King. :'( 
 
Who knows how those text snafus happen, but they do. It may be the fault of Atlus USA and its testers, or it may be the fault of the people programming the translation (not Atlus USA). Like I said, they even happened in Persona 3. But saying that a fan translation is of a higher quality just because there aren't extremely minor faults like these is just absurd and a bit naive.
 
It may not have the most original plot, but who cares? There are only so many ways you can destroy Tokyo with a demon invasion. And this is a company that has stated that the only reason Strange Journey wasn't SMTIV was because it wasn't set in Tokyo, so they are clearly hell-bent on how many ways they can rewrite this scenario.

The touch screen controls in DS let you navigate the menus, so yeah, they are nigh useless. Implying the game is weaker without having any touch screen controls at all is a little silly, however. How would they have improved the game? You could move your units around slightly faster, maybe, as long as it was accurate. I'd personally control with the pad even if I had that choice. Could they have at least given the option? Maybe. Is the game worse off without it? No.
 
And no, a comparison to FFT won't quite work despite sharing genres. FFT is much better for one, that's obvious. Time and choice are key issues in DS, which leads to different alignments and endings. Infusing the grid movement with a more traditional SMT battle that relies on elemental weaknesses ends up needing less strategy than FFT, though oddly enough, the parts that do require strategy are the ones most people think are the hardest (Beldr, Belial). We do agree that FFT is the better game, but why is that comparison even being made? Was DS made to compete with one of the most beloved examples in the genre or was it just to try Shin Megami Tensei with something different that would be suitable for a portable platform? DS takes genre staples like unit management and other facets mentioned and puts a different spin on them that while on the surface it may seem one way, it doesn't play like a carbon copy or anything near. See Majin Tensei for games that are truly molded in the Shining Force formula, though DS is much better than those.
 
All I'm saying is that by the end of the game, it practically hands you all the good skills such as the ones that restore your MP after every turn and powerful spells like Megidolaon. I had one super-unit with 3 guys who had both of those skills and it demolished nearly everything, but even then it was close. Most of the challenge came from how ridiculously long the final battle seemed to be, but it ended up being totally manageable.
Edited by Slippy
@ArbitraryWater said: " "RE4 and RE5 ARE NOT TEH TRU SURVIVAL HOROOR BLAH BLAH BLAH". " 
 
Well then, it would help if Capcom would stop marketing it as such. 7 year old girls can play today's Resident Evil games with no problems. 
 
Also, I never bundled RE4 with RE5 to make them a seperate entity. RE4 belongs in the annals of the RE glory days - RE5 does not.
Posted by Video_Game_King

The sad thing is that the fan translation is better. Here's an example: Mystic Ark was recently translated by two separate groups. I'm playing it in the first translation, and here's the only major technical problem I've seen with it so far:
 


Not that good, granted, but at least it's in properly spelled English. Compare it to Devil Survivor, a game where you must sitck it to Belzaboul using  虐待のビデオゲームのメカニック.
 
Absurd? Naive? Keep in mind that the translations are free, whereas one has to pay for the localized version of Devil Survivor. When a completely free translation of an obscure game by amateur game hackers and translators trumps the professional work of a big video game company (at least in the genre. Right?...:() that you had to pay for, you have moved past royal fuck up. You have now entered the region of "Dear God, how the f'ing hell did you manage to fail this hard?".
 
Maybe that's the problem: stop recycling the same plot over and over again. Yell at Nintendo all you want for being resistant to change, but at least they've tried altering the plots of some of their major franchises (Metroid Fusion, Radiant Dawn, Phantom Hourglass a bit). Yet according to you (again, Devil Survivor was the first SMT game I've beaten), Atlus has been recycling the same plot for the past 16 years, I think.
 
Again, I never found out how to navigate the menus with the touch screen. I had to use the DS's d-pad, which was especially condescending when the characters themselves were using DSes that you could use for non-battle things. As for how they would have improved the game, they would have at least made everything easier to manage. I think Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon proved this: it used touch screen controls, and the menu navigation was cut in half by 900%. (Yes, I'm aware of how stupid that is, but just go with it.) And how it's worse off for it: given how it was designed, I have the feeling it would have worked better as a GBA game. So, in a very weird/subtle way, I judged it a little bit like a GBA game, at least in the graphics department. Moving on...
 
I never found the time and choices to amount to much; you spent a lot of time dicking about until the story would progress, and a lot of the dialogue choices felt exactly the same. Oh, and glad you brought up those two bosses, since I found them to be pretty cheap. First, Beldr: why is it fair that he can strike all my units at once (and heal through that), while I only have one attack that's able to harm him? And why is it that when I've beaten all the enemies besides him (you know, so I can focus all my attention on beating him and keeping the hero alive), he summons about 900 more enemies, ruining any hope of beating him? And why is this boss considered easy when compared to later bosses? *looks at MT games* OK, those look pretty crappy, but then again, Devil Survivor looked pretty good.
 
The problem there is that I could never get those skills. I tried just about everything I could think of, but ultimately, I had to focus more on just finishing the damn battle than I did on beating a certain unit with a certain character to get a good skill. And even if I did get all those good skills, it wouldn't have helped that only one character could have it at once. This amy not sound like much, but with healing spells like the revive one and the heal all one (I don't remember them, as I blocked out many memories of this one game), yea, it would help to have them. Especially since there are no items or anything. And on the final boss: no, it was not manageable. By the end of it all, I only had two people left alive, and one of them died on the spot. So I was left with one character, and I while I could revive my units one by one, they would have died all over again, making it a waste of MP. (Trust me, I tried that.) So I was left with one strategy: shoving the random number generator in several medieval torture devices. I didn't feel bad; the RNG had beaten my ass too many times before to make me care for it.
Posted by Yummylee
@ArbitraryWater:
For code veronica you better get used to the lack of an ability manually going down stairs =/ And you think RE3 was action-oriented? Veronica hands you a sniper and an AK @.@ lol 
 
I agree that RE3 was certaintly too ammo stacked to really stay true to survival horror, but man the nemesis always had me on the run even to this day when i'm not playing with the ''oo'' weapons =P
Posted by yakov456
@ArbitraryWater said:
" @Slippy said:
" I think Resident Evil 3 being the worst in the series is a little harsh. Resident Evil 5, as a Resident Evil game, was much worse. The last hints of horror that were in RE3, and also RE4, were wrung out completely in RE5. Because of co-op, RE5 also lacked the feeling of isolation that RE3 had going for it at the best of times. "
I don't want to get into this. Basically I like both the old and the new RE games and believe that they have to be held to separate standards because otherwise you have crazy people going "RE4 and RE5 ARE NOT TEH TRU SURVIVAL HOROOR BLAH BLAH BLAH".   But don't worry. I have yet to play Code Veronica, and for all I know it could be far worse than RE3. And I never said I didn't like RE3, but that it is the weakest one I have played so far. "
I thought RE 3 was pretty solid, nothing really new but good enough. You should play Code Veronica, I loved it when it first came out on the dreamcast.
Posted by Eirikr
@Video_Game_King: Please state in detail how those untranslated lines negatively impacted how you were able to proceed with the gameplay of Devil Survivor. Otherwise it's just whining about something that doesn't even matter. 
 
Fan translations can be good, sometimes excellent. Look at Mother 3. But that took forever, and yes, time does matter in localization. Besides those few untranslated lines (which I must repeat I never saw in 3 playthroughs), the rest of the localization in DS is great. It's not a new Vagrant Story or anything, but it's highly competent from a publisher known for producing great localizations. The dialogue was well written and the terms were accurately translated (something often amiss in fan productions). Atlus has the logistical advantages that  fans don't, with a team of people who can speak Japanese (fluently), understand the context of the original, then rewrite it in English in a timely fashion. The advantage the fans have is then, time. They don't have a budget or a timeframe, as they aren't trying to sell a retail product. 
 
Saying you're cheated by paying for Devil Survivor when a "better" fan translation exists for a completely different game is a bit of a straw man argument. Just because there's no Japanese text remaining doesn't automatically make the fans' work superior. Implying that fan translations are "free" also gets into that internet grey area surrounding emulation, so that's another can of worms.
 
I would really like these fans to translate Devil Survivor's plot in the same amount of time Atlus did. You see, when I said that the games take place in Tokyo like a lot of the other games, I didn't say they were all the same, just that the setting was. They all do wildly different things within that setting, just that at first Devil Survivor resembles SMT1 with the demon lockdown. Devil Survivor is about the Bels, of course. Bel/ Baal is an old title meaning lord and a lot of gods and demons have their names derived from it. Such is the crux of the struggle in Devil Survivor of different factions aiming to become the top Bel, or really, the Lord of Lords.   

Could this have been a GBA game? Sure. A lot of DS games could have. It doesn't mean anything less if they do. Where were you a few years ago when people were complaining about so many DS games having tacked-on touch screen features? I'm glad companies no longer feel the mandate to include them.  
 
The choices in the game affect things like who you get in your party, what alignment you have, and what ending path you take. The time affects how many choices you can make. You could have chosen a path where you didn't even have to fight a final boss, but it's implied to be the sissy way out.
 
If you were having that much trouble with Beldr, then, I hate to say this, but you were probably doing something wrong. Kind of irrelevant now, but whatever. Necessary skills like healing spells, and passive resistance affinities are all easy to get during the free battles. The one free battle at the end has a ton of great ones that absolutely make things easier. Shin Megami Tensei always operates with a carrot on a stick, the carrot being that awesome new demon that's only a couple levels above you. It may seem that grinding is necessary, but you just have to choose if that demon is worth it or not. Oftentimes you wouldn't even need it.
 
You didn't like the game, that's fine and subjective. But most of your arguments as to why it is objectively poor are refutable.
Edited by kwyee
@ahoodedfigure said:

" I'm curious about Disgaea myself, since I'm rather familiar with BG.    The PC Jagged Alliance goes for what, like 4 or 6 bucks now...  I forgot if I asked you before, but have you ever played X-Com? "

Disagaea is a cutesy tactical rpg with basically unlimited grinding.  So if you like loot and leveling in an anime artstyle + tactical rpg gameplay, then its for you.  The story isn't bad, certainly better than the other two Disgaeas but the writing is quite good and the game has tons of charm; it doesn't take itself seriously at all and often made me lawl.  I liked it a lot (100+ hrs, new game+ , etc.). 
 
JA was mediocre; JA: Deadly Games was much better and JA2 is epic awesome.  JA is definitely not worth 30$ on the DS since they updated nothing for that release.   I highly recommend JA2 though (available on steam) and it will run well on any machine spec'ed in the past 10 yrs. Fun, not-too-serious, plenty of mods, funny writing, plenty of real world guns, and  deep gameplay: A+!
Posted by ahoodedfigure
@kwyee: Cool.  That was sort of me recommending Disgaea :)  Is that the one where you can enter inside of items and beat creatures inside of them?
Posted by Symphony

As if there's even a choice! Disgaea, of course!
 
Although that said, you could easily lose yourself being side-tracked fighting the Item Gods and the extra stages you can unlock before you actually finish the game... but I assume you mean completing the campaign, which really doesn't take all that long in the grand scheme of things. And you can always petition the Dark Assembly to make the enemies weaker so you can practically trample over anything in your way.

Posted by Video_Game_King

The untranslated lines and spelling errors prevent me from enjoying the story, to a certain extent, and point out how rough and unpolished the game is in general. Also keep in mind that names have the tendency to flow out of their boxes (again, not in fan translations)
 
Let me say this: I wasn't searching for any untranslated lines. I just stumbled upon one when conversing with that rock star character. We're never told that she speaks Japanese, and the line itself is never explained, so I can't blame it on taking it out of context. The game doesn't even set up any context for it; there's a conversation, she leaves, JAPANESE, then back to the map screen. I did research, and other people seem to have the exact same problem, indicating that this was not a screwed up version I got by mistake or something. And given that this happened in another game (according to your Persona 3 anecdote, I think), I'm starting to doubt your claim about their great localizations. I didn't get the feeling that this was properly localized when I was fighting a fly monster from Hell called Belzaboul (shouldn't that Beelzebub, Atlus guys?).
 
My point was that I expect higher quality from a large company with far more resources, money, and general knowledge of the subject than I do from fan translators with limited time, manpower, and knowledge of both the language and programming skills. However, since we're moving into a grey area, let's move into the light, also known as the next argument:
 
I thought Devil Survivor more resembled TWEWY than it did the original SMT, but I see your point. Anyway, I thought the plot focused more on people abusing the hell out of demons (Keisuke, Kaido, etc.) and "overcoming God's ordeal" (if I have to hear that ONE MORE TIME...) than it did the demon throne thing. That was more important near the end of the game, when you could choose between serving God or your creepy cousin.
 
Inserting touch controls that aren't needed is bad, but so is omitting touch screen controls when the game in question is outright begging for them. Perfect example: Radiant Dawn. Simple point and click controls would have made the game slightly better, but oh no, I must move about and navigate menus to play the game. I adjusted in time, but the point is that this game would be better if it had simple motion controls. No waggle or anything, just pointing at a guy and telling him where to go and what to do.
 
I only noticed some of this crap near the end, when I got three decisions. Other than that, many of my decisions had very little impact on the general course of the game. And now that you've mentioned the pussy route, let me say that the game seemed to despise me for every choice. Want to fight off the demons? Well, you're a judgmental, puritanical asshole who casts fear upon those around you! Want to help those demons? Go ahead, if you want to make God cry? Want to kill both the demons and God? Fuck you, that's not even a choice. Automatic game over.
 
I tried adjusting my allies to their strengths and cracking skills in alignment with said strengths, but the game seemed to resent me for it; whenever I did plan things out like that, the computer would move enemy units in exactly the right way to screw up my carefully laid-out plans. As for Beldr, my original plan was to defeat all the demons and then focus on him. I completed it, then went to fight him. I could only harm him with one unit, which is kind of cheap, but I made it to the low stages of his health. The game then said, "Oh, looks like you're about to beat this fairly difficult boss. Let's see what I have up here. *reaches up ass, pulls out the entire Roman army* Now try and beat him."
 
I still find a lot of these arguments to be perfectly valid. I know strategy RPGs are supposed to be hard, but this is the only one I've played that lacks the legitimacy of any other strategy RPG.

Posted by Eirikr
@Video_Game_King said:
" I'm starting to doubt your claim about their great localizations. I didn't get the feeling that this was properly localized when I was fighting a fly monster from Hell called Belzaboul (shouldn't that Beelzebub, Atlus guys?).
Hahaha, well, for a King, you sure aren't all that well informed by your advisers.
 
That he's called Belzaboul isn't incorrect, it's just a localization choice to fit in with the game's Bel theme. Same goes with Beldr. It should be Baldr, Odin's son, but hey, it was a good choice to fit in with the theme and I guarantee you that's a nuance that would be lost with fan translations. 
 
This chip on your shoulder against Devil Survivor has spewed some amusing bullshit, such as a few missed lines ruining the game for you, long demon names overflowing the boxes being the mark of bad localization (yes, fan translations MANY YEARS after the fact can hack the game to make text fit better but that is not the least bit relevant to localization of current games), and the overall fallacy that fan translations produce better work (the same community that retranslates games like Chrono Trigger to be more literal with the original Japanese, and it becomes a sickening heresy against the English language as a result). This is the kind of stuff that if you criticized as a professional reviewer, you'd be chastised as a whiny fanboy, and rightly so.  Hey, maybe you've got a future at IGN.
 
Also the decisions you make during the earlier parts of the game determine which characters appear to you before the final day. So what you had to choose from was ultimately your own doing.
Posted by Video_Game_King
@Eirikr: 
 
Then why not just call him Belzebub? Or hell, why not add a demon called Malebelgia in his place? (Wait, that wasn't a demon, but whatever. Just call Spawn a religion and leave it at that :P.) That last one would make far more sense, given that it's much closer to the source material. And I made the point of fan translations being too literal, but in this case, I could forgive them.
 
The missed lines show me how rough the game is, Atlus had the time and people to test it just as easily as fan translators do if not moreso, and I wasn't saying that fan translations are better in general, just in comparison to this game. There are tons of games with great translations (the recent Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest remakes on the DS, for example), but Devil Survivor is not one of them. (Oh, also not a fan of translating games that are already in English at the time.) And look, let me say I'm not a fanboy. I have nothing against Atlus (loved Trauma Center on the Wii), Nintendo (obviously), or strategy RPGs (obviouslier), just this one game.
 
OK. Kinda weird and subtle and not something I noticed, but I'll concede that point, a bit. Counter-point (and a very bad one at that): why did they make one dialogue option that gets you a game over? I know it's isolated to one area of the game, but still, that's just mean.
Posted by ArbitraryWater
@Video_Game_King: @Eirikr: Can't you kids ever get along? 
Posted by Video_Game_King
@ArbitraryWater: 
 
I'm no kid, I'm a centuries old King! Just for that: battle. *draws swords*
Posted by ArbitraryWater
@Video_Game_King said:
" @ArbitraryWater: 
 
I'm no kid, I'm a centuries old King! Just for that: battle. *draws swords* "
It's on! Ok. I cast time stop, then disintegrate. You fail your fortitude save and are immediately vaporized.
Posted by Video_Game_King
@ArbitraryWater: 
 
Ah, clever. But I had Reviver cast on me, so I come back to life without a single LP cost. *transforms into the Black Knight* (in gravelly voice) Now it is time to test your true mettle as a warrior. *Eclipses you into oblivion*
Posted by Eirikr
@Video_Game_King said:

"Then why not just call him Belzebub? Or hell, why not add a demon called Malebelgia in his place? (Wait, that wasn't a demon, but whatever. Just call Spawn a religion and leave it at that :P.) That last one would make far more sense, given that it's much closer to the source material. And I made the point of fan translations being too literal, but in this case, I could forgive them. 

Because, according to Wikipedia, " In addition to Beelzebub, Ba‘al Zebûb, and Ba‘al Zvûv, (בעל זבוב), there are several variants, such as Belzebud, Beezelbub, Beazlebub, Belzaboul, Beelzeboul, Baalsebul, Baalzebubg, Belzebuth, Beelzebuth, and Beelzebus."
 
That's it, let's get along now.
Posted by Video_Game_King
@Eirikr: 
 
No! First, Beelzebub is the most accepted of any of those translations, and second (and most important of all) we must battle! * transforms into Babel* Try and beat me now!
Posted by Eirikr
@Video_Game_King: Yes, but spelling it Beelzebub wouldn't have fit in with the rest of them. 
 
And I wasn't going to, but nice music selection. Too bad I'm stocked with Victory Cries and Megidolaons...
Posted by Video_Game_King
@Eirikr: 
 
Then why not go with Belzebub? That would make far more sense and have broader appeal.
 
*changes weaknesses, now has reflect AND drain on Holy* Oh, that's cheap? Didn't notice. You. Dead. Go back and restart the whole thing.
Posted by ArbitraryWater

I love how my blog post has gone completely off topic with all this inane bickering. Oh well, whatever keeps it bumped I guess. 
 
Oh, and I actually just picked up a copy of RE:CV a few hours ago for $7. That's probably the next game I am going to blog about.

Posted by Video_Game_King
@ArbitraryWater: 
 
And to think it was all due to one sentence that wasn't at all necessary to the whole thing :P.