Why You're a "Lazy, Worthless Gamer" (Warning: Contains History)

We've all heard it in some form.   "Why are you wasting your time playing games?"   "Shouldn't you be working?"   "You're not hardworking and you'll never be successful" (ouch, that last one was rough).   How do people jump to these conclusions based solely on seeing us playing a game?   It has to do with modern day "workaholism" and goes back to the mid 1550's with a man named John Calvin.  (Note: This is history.  I'm not preaching :)

Calvin believed in "original sin," that each human is born morally corrupt.   Unlike some versions of Christianity, which say that one can be redeemed by good acts, Calvin believed that there was nothing a human could do to redeem his or herself.   According to him, God chose who was chosen to be saved, and who was to be damned, and that there was nothing one could do to sway God's judgment.   This belief in predestination is kind of depressing, so Calvinist ministers told their followers that one can find out if God has chosen them through their work.   One who is chosen is someone who devotes their life to unemotional good works and self-control, so if someone emulates a chosen one, and is chosen, they'll be rewarded for their good faith with economic wealth.   In contrast, if one works hard, but loses their farm to a drought, they must have been damned by God all along.   This created followers who are very devoted to their work.

(This is a very short description of Calvinism and focuses only on the part related to work ethic.   I left many things out because I'm not trying to recount an entire religious belief system.)

Fast forward to the late 1700's with Benjamin Franklin, whose father was a Calvinist.   Franklin himself was a "Deist," like many of the U.S.'s founding fathers*.   Despite this, the Calvinist influence did appear in his writing, the epitome of which is his famous quote, "time is money" **.   This refers to the economic view that time spent not working is actually lost money that you could've earned in that time.   This quote has been enormously influential on the people of the United States.   According to Max Weber, an influential sociologist, Franklin had a secularized Calvinist work ethic (secularized meaning removed from religion).

This leads to today's "Protestant work ethic" ideology.   An ideology is a belief that distorts the universe, and is often invisible to those who hold the belief to be true***.   If you've been to Mexico, South America, or Italy, you've probably noticed the huge difference in work ethic between them and those of us in the United States or the United Kingdom.   People in the U.S. seem to be compelled to work too hard, and often feel guilty for not working.   This work ethic is regarded as perfectly normal, and even part of human nature, when in fact it's very recent in terms of the history of humanity, only dating back to Calvinism.   This is the "Protestant work ethic" or "workaholic" ideology.

This "workaholic" ideology can be a good thing.   People working long hours, sometimes working overtime without pay, provide huge profits to businesses and create a booming economy.   Those who devote their lives to working for charitable organizations help the less fortunate with their strong work ethic.   There are many technological advances we can thank to people who were compelled to work late into the night.   However, there can also be a very destructive downside to this ideology.

"Workaholics" can be driven to work long hours in a job they don't enjoy, leading to a miserable existence where they deprive themselves of enjoyment.   They can believe that economic success is equal to moral superiority and create a judgmental attitude toward those who don't devote their life to their work.   They can believe that a hardworking, successful businessman is a better person than someone who doesn't work hard to get rich.

This leads to them calling people out who aren't working.   Their belief that time=money and accumulation of money is the goal in life causes them to believe that time spent playing video games is a worthless endeavor.   This is why they call you a lazy, worthless gamer.

Of course, believing gamers are lazy, worthless human beings is only small part of it.   It also leads to harmful racist beliefs.   In the past, an example is the "drunken, lazy Irishman".   Some believed that because they weren't hard working, self-disciplined people like them, the Irish didn't really matter and could be mistreated.   A more recent example is the "lazy Mexican" who is a lesser person for working less hours than Americans.   This is a particularly dumb belief because many of the same people also hold the wider belief that these lesser, "lazy Mexicans" are coming to America to steal their jobs.

So how does one reconcile the good parts of workaholism with the bad, judgmental parts?   Through self-consciousness.   You can realize you're a workaholic and "own" it without passing judgment on others for not holding the same belief in a strong work ethic.   Someone who enjoys their leisure time gaming is not a lesser person than the businessman working late into the night.

* This controversial statement is contrary to many who claim the U.S. was based on Christianity, which is historically incorrect.   Deism differs from Christianity in that Deists did not believe that Jesus was a savior, nor did they believe in divinely inspired scriptures, the trinity, or the Catholic Church.   Instead they focused on a belief in God without the need for organized religion, emphasizing rationality.

**Note that this quote was written under one of Franklin's pseudonyms: Poor Richard.   It's not clear if Franklin was writing his actual beliefs or a satire. 

***This is using the normative (value-laden) definition of Ideology instead of the broader, descriptive definition in which an ideology is simply a "belief".    

Thanks to Professor Barbara Goodrich.   A much deeper recounting of the "Protestant/Calvinist Work Ethic" can be found at her website here.

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Edited by CatsAkimbo

We've all heard it in some form.   "Why are you wasting your time playing games?"   "Shouldn't you be working?"   "You're not hardworking and you'll never be successful" (ouch, that last one was rough).   How do people jump to these conclusions based solely on seeing us playing a game?   It has to do with modern day "workaholism" and goes back to the mid 1550's with a man named John Calvin.  (Note: This is history.  I'm not preaching :)

Calvin believed in "original sin," that each human is born morally corrupt.   Unlike some versions of Christianity, which say that one can be redeemed by good acts, Calvin believed that there was nothing a human could do to redeem his or herself.   According to him, God chose who was chosen to be saved, and who was to be damned, and that there was nothing one could do to sway God's judgment.   This belief in predestination is kind of depressing, so Calvinist ministers told their followers that one can find out if God has chosen them through their work.   One who is chosen is someone who devotes their life to unemotional good works and self-control, so if someone emulates a chosen one, and is chosen, they'll be rewarded for their good faith with economic wealth.   In contrast, if one works hard, but loses their farm to a drought, they must have been damned by God all along.   This created followers who are very devoted to their work.

(This is a very short description of Calvinism and focuses only on the part related to work ethic.   I left many things out because I'm not trying to recount an entire religious belief system.)

Fast forward to the late 1700's with Benjamin Franklin, whose father was a Calvinist.   Franklin himself was a "Deist," like many of the U.S.'s founding fathers*.   Despite this, the Calvinist influence did appear in his writing, the epitome of which is his famous quote, "time is money" **.   This refers to the economic view that time spent not working is actually lost money that you could've earned in that time.   This quote has been enormously influential on the people of the United States.   According to Max Weber, an influential sociologist, Franklin had a secularized Calvinist work ethic (secularized meaning removed from religion).

This leads to today's "Protestant work ethic" ideology.   An ideology is a belief that distorts the universe, and is often invisible to those who hold the belief to be true***.   If you've been to Mexico, South America, or Italy, you've probably noticed the huge difference in work ethic between them and those of us in the United States or the United Kingdom.   People in the U.S. seem to be compelled to work too hard, and often feel guilty for not working.   This work ethic is regarded as perfectly normal, and even part of human nature, when in fact it's very recent in terms of the history of humanity, only dating back to Calvinism.   This is the "Protestant work ethic" or "workaholic" ideology.

This "workaholic" ideology can be a good thing.   People working long hours, sometimes working overtime without pay, provide huge profits to businesses and create a booming economy.   Those who devote their lives to working for charitable organizations help the less fortunate with their strong work ethic.   There are many technological advances we can thank to people who were compelled to work late into the night.   However, there can also be a very destructive downside to this ideology.

"Workaholics" can be driven to work long hours in a job they don't enjoy, leading to a miserable existence where they deprive themselves of enjoyment.   They can believe that economic success is equal to moral superiority and create a judgmental attitude toward those who don't devote their life to their work.   They can believe that a hardworking, successful businessman is a better person than someone who doesn't work hard to get rich.

This leads to them calling people out who aren't working.   Their belief that time=money and accumulation of money is the goal in life causes them to believe that time spent playing video games is a worthless endeavor.   This is why they call you a lazy, worthless gamer.

Of course, believing gamers are lazy, worthless human beings is only small part of it.   It also leads to harmful racist beliefs.   In the past, an example is the "drunken, lazy Irishman".   Some believed that because they weren't hard working, self-disciplined people like them, the Irish didn't really matter and could be mistreated.   A more recent example is the "lazy Mexican" who is a lesser person for working less hours than Americans.   This is a particularly dumb belief because many of the same people also hold the wider belief that these lesser, "lazy Mexicans" are coming to America to steal their jobs.

So how does one reconcile the good parts of workaholism with the bad, judgmental parts?   Through self-consciousness.   You can realize you're a workaholic and "own" it without passing judgment on others for not holding the same belief in a strong work ethic.   Someone who enjoys their leisure time gaming is not a lesser person than the businessman working late into the night.

* This controversial statement is contrary to many who claim the U.S. was based on Christianity, which is historically incorrect.   Deism differs from Christianity in that Deists did not believe that Jesus was a savior, nor did they believe in divinely inspired scriptures, the trinity, or the Catholic Church.   Instead they focused on a belief in God without the need for organized religion, emphasizing rationality.

**Note that this quote was written under one of Franklin's pseudonyms: Poor Richard.   It's not clear if Franklin was writing his actual beliefs or a satire. 

***This is using the normative (value-laden) definition of Ideology instead of the broader, descriptive definition in which an ideology is simply a "belief".    

Thanks to Professor Barbara Goodrich.   A much deeper recounting of the "Protestant/Calvinist Work Ethic" can be found at her website here.

Edited by Zithe

Seems like you might be over-thinking here. I believe most people consider gamers to be lazy and wasting their time because of the way gaming looks from their perspective. When I am sitting on my couch playing a game for 3 or 4 hours and people walk by, all they see is me sitting there looking at the screen with a controller in my hand. When they come by hours later, they see the same thing. I don't think they must be workaholics to call this lazy. You could chalk it up partially to their ignorance, and partially to the fact that it's sort of true. Being a gamer might not make you an outright lazy person, but the act of playing a game is rarely demanding.

Posted by EveretteScott
@Zithe said:
" Seems like you might be over-thinking here. I believe most people consider gamers to be lazy and wasting their time because of the way gaming looks from their perspective. When I am sitting on my couch playing a game for 3 or 4 hours and people walk by, all they see is me sitting there looking at the screen with a controller in my hand. When they come by hours later, they see the same thing. I don't think they must be workaholics to call this lazy. You could chalk it up partially to their ignorance, and partially to the fact that it's sort of true. Being a gamer might not make you an outright lazy person, but the act of playing a game is rarely demanding. "
Trumps OPs post in spades.
Edited by Manhattan_Project
@CatsAkimbo:
" If you've been to Mexico, South America, or Italy, you've probably noticed the huge difference in work ethic between them and those of us in the United States or the United Kingdom.   People in the U.S. seem to be compelled to work too hard, and often feel guilty for not working." 
 
That right there, made your entire post worthless. 
 
Edit: Sorry @Zithe: : (
Posted by Zithe
@Manhattan_Project:  Then I must be missing something, because I don't see why. Care to explain?
Posted by Manhattan_Project
@Zithe: He's saying that people from Mexico, South America and Italy don't work as hard as someone from the US or UK. How do you not see the problem with this?
Posted by Zithe
@Manhattan_Project:  I explained in my post how gaming can appear lazy to anyone, regardless of their work ethic. It's a matter of perspective between gamers and non-gamers.
Posted by Manhattan_Project
@Zithe: What? That quote says nothing about gamers, all he's doing is generalizing entire countries and a continent. 
Posted by FlyingRat
@Manhattan_Project:  I think what's happening here is that you didn't mean to make your first post a reply to Zithe, and that's what's causing this confusion.
Edited by Zithe
@Manhattan_Project:  I really have no idea what argument you are even making. Please make a post that is more substantial than just questioning mine.
 
Edit: Ahh, if FlyingRat is correct then that makes some sense.
Posted by armaan8014
@CatsAkimbo: Great read man, and oh@CatsAkimbo said:
 This is a particularly dumb belief because many of the same people also hold the wider belief that these lesser, "lazy Mexicans" are coming to America to steal their jobs.
They took our jobs!
Posted by Manhattan_Project
@FlyingRat said:
" @Manhattan_Project:  I think what's happening here is that you didn't mean to make your first post a reply to Zithe, and that's what's causing this confusion. "
Holy shit how did I not notice that? FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 
 
@Zithe said:
" @Manhattan_Project:  I really have no idea what argument you are even making. Please make a post that is more substantial than just questioning mine.  Edit: Ahh, if FlyingRat is correct then that makes some sense. "
Yep. I'm stupid. Sorry for the confusion.
 
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go crawl into a hole and die...
Posted by Brodehouse

I think the work ethic thing comes from the fact that a lot of Spanish dudes take a nap in the middle of the day.
 
 When I hear about workaholics, I want to hear about those Japanese dudes who drop dead because they won't stop working.

Posted by Rothbart

Well, success is measured individually, so it's impossible for someone else to say if I'm successful or not because they don't know what my goals are. And it's well known that the whole Calvinist movement helped jump-start capitalism in Protestant countries and has lead to the many messed up priorities. Catholic countries are thankfully more laid-back about this whole "work" thing, in that they don't see it as an absolute imperative moral value by which you can judge people. Anyway, the majority of people who don't see worth in games don't play them (duh), so it's kind of a moot point.

Posted by lamegame621

John Calvin's Xbox: An Historical Analysis of Modern Day Gaming
 
By renowned author CatsAkimbo

Posted by Burzmali
@Zithe said:
" Seems like you might be over-thinking here. I believe most people consider gamers to be lazy and wasting their time because of the way gaming looks from their perspective. When I am sitting on my couch playing a game for 3 or 4 hours and people walk by, all they see is me sitting there looking at the screen with a controller in my hand. When they come by hours later, they see the same thing. I don't think they must be workaholics to call this lazy. You could chalk it up partially to their ignorance, and partially to the fact that it's sort of true. Being a gamer might not make you an outright lazy person, but the act of playing a game is rarely demanding. "
This. And not just first-hand, seeing someone sit in one spot for several hours, but also the news reports of people neglecting children or dying because they played an MMO for days on end. Add in the fact that, ultimately, most gamers don't gain anything tangible from gaming, and it's easy to see why people think we're lazy or wasting our lives.
Posted by DoctorWelch

As others have said, you are definitely over thinking this. Basically, focusing on/doing any one thing, whether it be a hobby, job, relationship, ect, for too much of your time can be unhealthy. Then combine that with this stupid stereotype that most people that play games are nerdy, lazy, and socially awkward people that do nothing but play games all day long makes it hard to shake off the whole "playing games is a waste of time" sentiment. That being said, I do think this entire sentiment and stereotype is starting to slowly go away as video games are growing and growing. Think about how many people are playing shooters like MW2 and Halo. There are a whole hell of a lot of people that play games, even if they dont play a variety of games like most of us here at GB, games and the people that play them arent being looked at the same way that they used to. 
 
Now, I will say, there are definitely people that need to get off their ass, stop playing games for a bit, handle their business, and get a life. It's one thing to do what you love and have a great hobby you're really into, but it's another to do something so much that other parts of your life become pathetic.

Posted by invadernick

I get that "why are you wasting your time on games" a lot. And really it's mostly from people who don't play video games or believe they are too old for it. They don't see what games have to offer and believe you could spend time doing something else more constructive. I think those people who say that are just ignorant in the gaming department, but not because their work ethic makes it seem we are wasting time.

Posted by wefwefasdf

In my experience, those who say gaming is waste of time usually spend hours watching TV. I sometimes wonder how they can't see what is wrong with their logic...

Posted by iam3green
@SpikeSpiegel said:
" In my experience, those who say gaming is waste of time usually spend hours watching TV. I sometimes wonder how they can't see what is wrong with their logic... "
or people that just go out and party all night at bars. i hear that a lot from my friend who goes out every weekend to buys. later he complains that he doesn't have any money. 
 
what about the stereo type of video games don't get out to much. i heard that one from one of my professors. i'm just like wow, i do go out with my friends.  
 
it is a pretty good read man. a lot of stuff about things. if you give me things to do then i will do those jobs. i am one of the people that work hard at a job that has a lot of things to do.
Edited by CatsAkimbo
@Zithe said:

" Seems like you might be over-thinking here. I believe most people consider gamers to be lazy and wasting their time because of the way gaming looks from their perspective. When I am sitting on my couch playing a game for 3 or 4 hours and people walk by, all they see is me sitting there looking at the screen with a controller in my hand. When they come by hours later, they see the same thing. I don't think they must be workaholics to call this lazy. You could chalk it up partially to their ignorance, and partially to the fact that it's sort of true. Being a gamer might not make you an outright lazy person, but the act of playing a game is rarely demanding. "

Yep, I did get very philosophical, but you kind of have to when analyzing someone's thinking.  In regards to your example I was trying to answer "why does the person looking at you gaming like that feel like they're better than you," which is kind of broader question of their thinking process.  If you buy into the "time is money" belief, then it's obvious why gamers are lazy, I was looking into how that belief came about in the first place and why work time is "better" than leisure time to many. 
 

@Manhattan_Project

said:

" @CatsAkimbo:
" If you've been to Mexico, South America, or Italy, you've probably noticed the huge difference in work ethic between them and those of us in the United States or the United Kingdom.   People in the U.S. seem to be compelled to work too hard, and often feel guilty for not working." 
 
That right there, made your entire post worthless. 

Care to explain?   If you look at average vacation days, the U.S. gets 25 days a year, whereas Italy is at 31, Portugal at 34, France at 40.  For a "workaholic" looking at these numbers, these countries appear to work less than them in the U.S. or U.K.  If you're arguing that that's not true, you're absolutely right.  According to the OECD Mexico actually does have the more hours worked yearly (1857 hours a year versus 1768 hours a year in the US), but they're much more lenient in regards to breaks during the day and time off and appear to work less. Greece is actually much higher at 2119 hours per year, and France is a bit lower at 1554 hours per year. 
 

@DoctorWelch

said:

" As others have said, you are definitely over thinking this. Basically, focusing on/doing any one thing, whether it be a hobby, job, relationship, ect, for too much of your time can be unhealthy. ..."  

I wouldn't say "over-thinking", but maybe looking a lot deeper into it than you usually see people do.  The world is a lot more complicated that simple cause and effect, and people's beliefs and experiences feed into how they perceive the world.  Sure, some people focus too much on one thing to the point of being unhealthy, but this isn't the case for the vast majority of people.  To see someone gaming and jump to the conclusion the rest of their life must be suffering is kind of an irrational thing to think, and yet many people do think that.  I'm trying to shed a little light into why that is :)
Posted by FourWude

The Protestant Work Ethic was about the substitution of actual worship for work. It regarded work as a form of worship.... and yet that's not really how work in the modern western economies has turned out. Work is almost devoutly secular if not atheistic in its belief of leaving God out of the equation.

I would also go into a discussion on Usury, the impact of usury on western countries and the secularisation of societies, but this ain't the thread and I'm busy.

Posted by Video_Game_King
@EveretteScott said:
" @Zithe said:
" Seems like you might be over-thinking here. I believe most people consider gamers to be lazy and wasting their time because of the way gaming looks from their perspective. When I am sitting on my couch playing a game for 3 or 4 hours and people walk by, all they see is me sitting there looking at the screen with a controller in my hand. When they come by hours later, they see the same thing. I don't think they must be workaholics to call this lazy. You could chalk it up partially to their ignorance, and partially to the fact that it's sort of true. Being a gamer might not make you an outright lazy person, but the act of playing a game is rarely demanding. "
Trumps OPs post in spades. "
That doesn't mean the post is bad; it just means that the post is largely irrelevant to gaming. Also, Zithe does have a point, but with one major oversight: this is exclusive to gaming. Movies and books are far lazier, yet what do you think when you see somebody reading a book, and hours later, see them reading the same book? Certainly not, "That worthless, lazy fucker! Look at him there, just staring at those words. He should be doing something worthwhile instead of just turning pages!" Instead, reading is seen as worthwhile in itself. Same with movies, to a lesser extent.
Posted by Ragdrazi
@EveretteScott said:
" @Zithe said:
" Seems like you might be over-thinking here. I believe most people consider gamers to be lazy and wasting their time because of the way gaming looks from their perspective. When I am sitting on my couch playing a game for 3 or 4 hours and people walk by, all they see is me sitting there looking at the screen with a controller in my hand. When they come by hours later, they see the same thing. I don't think they must be workaholics to call this lazy. You could chalk it up partially to their ignorance, and partially to the fact that it's sort of true. Being a gamer might not make you an outright lazy person, but the act of playing a game is rarely demanding. "
Trumps OPs post in spades. "
The only reason our culture thinks that someone sitting in one place doing something they enjoy for hours on end is wrong is because it was a sin to do so under the Protestant Work Ethic put forward by Cavlin.
 
So fuuuuuuccck you!
Posted by Ragdrazi
@Video_Game_King said:
" @EveretteScott said:
" @Zithe said:
" Seems like you might be over-thinking here. I believe most people consider gamers to be lazy and wasting their time because of the way gaming looks from their perspective. When I am sitting on my couch playing a game for 3 or 4 hours and people walk by, all they see is me sitting there looking at the screen with a controller in my hand. When they come by hours later, they see the same thing. I don't think they must be workaholics to call this lazy. You could chalk it up partially to their ignorance, and partially to the fact that it's sort of true. Being a gamer might not make you an outright lazy person, but the act of playing a game is rarely demanding. "
Trumps OPs post in spades. "
That doesn't mean the post is bad; it just means that the post is largely irrelevant to gaming. Also, Zithe does have a point, but with one major oversight: this is exclusive to gaming. Movies and books are far lazier, yet what do you think when you see somebody reading a book, and hours later, see them reading the same book? Certainly not, "That worthless, lazy fucker! Look at him there, just staring at those words. He should be doing something worthwhile instead of just turning pages!" Instead, reading is seen as worthwhile in itself. Same with movies, to a lesser extent. "
Books have always been exempt. Bible is a book. Learning how to tend plants comes from a book. Books always had a pass.
 
The the problem with this post isn't that it's irrelevant to gaming. It's that this culture has trouble looking beyond the fucking moment to the larger causes and effects of things going back generations. Pretty much we assume the way we are is the only way it's possible to be, because we just don't give a shit about anything different.
Edited by RsistncE

X + Y = Total Time 
 
Where X = time spent gaming, Y = time spent "working" and where Total Time is a fixed quantity.
 
As X increases, Y decreases, yielding lower total time spent "working". There is a positive correlation between time spent working and achievement in this work. 
 
I'm pretty sure this is what people are getting at when they say, "you're not working hard and will never be successful."

Posted by LackLuster
Posted by Ragdrazi
@RsistncE said:
" X + Y = Total Time  Where X = time spent gaming  Where Y = time spent "working"  As X increases, Y decreases, yielding lower total time spent "working". There is a positive correlation between time spent working and achievement in this work. "
And the only reason you care is Calvin. You know how much more we work than people in other cultures? They routinely are allowed to take months off at every level. Different causes, different effects.
Posted by RsistncE
@Ragdrazi said:
" @RsistncE said:
" X + Y = Total Time  Where X = time spent gaming  Where Y = time spent "working"  As X increases, Y decreases, yielding lower total time spent "working". There is a positive correlation between time spent working and achievement in this work. "
And the only reason you care is Calvin. You know how much more we work than people in other cultures? They routinely are allowed to take months off at every level. Different causes, different effects. "
I was strictly explaining why people say that if you don't work hard that you won't be successful. Of course successful is relative term, so let's say "return". Your "return" on your work is less the less time you spend actually doing the work. I think most people would agree that is a fact.
Posted by Sjosz

tl;dr, too busy playing and making games.

Posted by Ragdrazi
@RsistncE said:
" @Ragdrazi said:
" @RsistncE said:
" X + Y = Total Time  Where X = time spent gaming  Where Y = time spent "working"  As X increases, Y decreases, yielding lower total time spent "working". There is a positive correlation between time spent working and achievement in this work. "
And the only reason you care is Calvin. You know how much more we work than people in other cultures? They routinely are allowed to take months off at every level. Different causes, different effects. "
I was strictly explaining why people say that if you don't work hard that you won't be successful. Of course successful is relative term, so let's say "return". Your "return" on your work is less the less time you spend actually doing the work. I think most people would agree that is a fact. "
And they would agree because of Calvin. People from other cultures take a different attitude to the importance is results of hard work.
Posted by Video_Game_King
@Ragdrazi: 
 
Because it was the only option, right? I imagine if the Bible was on the Game Boy, attitudes would be different.
 
I understand not. Care to explain a bit more?
Posted by Ragdrazi
@Video_Game_King said:
" @Ragdrazi: 
 
Because it was the only option, right? I imagine if the Bible was on the Game Boy, attitudes would be different.  I understand not. Care to explain a bit more? "
This in reference to the whole books getting a pass thing? Well, under Calvin, if the bible was on a game boy then you might be allowed to own a game boy and a bible cart. But if you bought a game, you would be committing a sin. These ideas have the root in the Hellenistic Stoics. Suffering = good.
Posted by BraveToaster

Workaholics are jealous of people who have the time to spend hours doing what they love. 
 
p.s. John Calvin was a moron.

Posted by Video_Game_King
@Ragdrazi: 
 
The elaboration part? No, I wanted you to elaborate on gamers' shortsightedness. I understand why people put so much respect into books: for very stupid reasons.
Posted by hedfone

you're out of your fucking mind if you think ill read all that

Posted by Ragdrazi
@Video_Game_King said:
" @Ragdrazi:   The elaboration part? No, I wanted you to elaborate on gamers' shortsightedness. I understand why people put so much respect into books: for very stupid reasons. "
Books are good for a huge number of good reasons. But that's interesting... I don't think I ever said gamers were alone in being shortsighted about things like this. We have a very shortsighted culture. For someone my age, my cultural history maybe stretches back 50 years, and that's because I'm a smart guy. For someone your age, from your generation, it stretches back about 10 at best. Most other cultures know events a century, two centuries back at very least. And there are a lot who hold onto events from millennium ago.
Posted by Video_Game_King
@Ragdrazi: 
 
How do you know my culture? I'm from the Moon! Also, still a bit more elaboration. Are you talking about American culture, and how people only know stuff from the Cold War, even though a lot of modern American history is like a row of dominoes starting with World War I?
Edited by Ragdrazi
@Video_Game_King said:

" @Ragdrazi:   How do you know my culture? I'm from the Moon! Also, still a bit more elaboration. Are you talking about American culture, and how people only know stuff from the Cold War, even though a lot of modern American history is like a row of dominoes starting with World War I? "

You clearly hail from somewhere within the mighty mighty Western Culture (Go Pumas!) and it's pretty fair to assume you're American. 
 
But yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's all about what you're familiar with and what you know applies to your cultural life today. (Come to think of it, I do know a lot of that WWI stuff on. I might have been selling myself short there.)
Posted by RandomInternetUser
@SpikeSpiegel said:
" In my experience, those who say gaming is waste of time usually spend hours watching TV. I sometimes wonder how they can't see what is wrong with their logic... "
Yea... that's what pisses me off the most when people say "gamers are lazy" or something of the sort.  Sure, I'm lazy when I'm playing games, but if I'm doing a job I have great work ethic.
Posted by Ragdrazi
@xobballox said:
" @SpikeSpiegel said:
" In my experience, those who say gaming is waste of time usually spend hours watching TV. I sometimes wonder how they can't see what is wrong with their logic... "
Yea... that's what pisses me off the most when people say "gamers are lazy" or something of the sort.  Sure, I'm lazy when I'm playing games, but if I'm doing a job I have great work ethic. "
And even when you defend against the idea it is still using the same terminology. Your not emphasizing the enrichment you get from the game or the game as art appreciation. You're defending your work ethic.
Posted by Video_Game_King
@Ragdrazi: 
 
Clearly, I don't. America is anti-King, and, being a King, I wouldn't live there. I'm from the Moon.
 
I think I understand now, in that no issue is localized to one time; it all dates back a long time, even if it concerns things only recently possible, like abortion or robot sexual rights. (I say "robot sexual" because "robosexual" is something completely different. It's like sex dolls.)
Posted by Zithe
@Ragdrazi: I have an honest question: Do non-gamers in China think gaming is a waste of time? If so, does the "Protestant work ethic" ideology apply to them as well?
Posted by Video_Game_King
@Zithe said:
" @Ragdrazi: I have an honest question: Do non-gamers in China think gaming is a waste of time? If so, does the "Protestant work ethic" ideology apply to them as well? "
I imagine it's yes and no, respectively, but I know that I'm probably wrong.
Posted by Ragdrazi
@Video_Game_King said:
" @Ragdrazi:   Clearly, I don't. America is anti-King, and, being a King, I wouldn't live there. I'm from the Moon.  I think I understand now, in that no issue is localized to one time; it all dates back a long time, even if it concerns things only recently possible, like abortion or robot sexual rights. (I say "robot sexual" because "robosexual" is something completely different. It's like sex dolls.) "
Why is the moon a part of Western Cult... oh we put the flag there.
 
And hell no, there is no issue that is ever completely unique to it's time. Abortion has it's roots in Protestant ideas about women and the proper role of sex as child creation, and robot sexual rights... don't exist yet. But, even in formulating the idea of sexual rights, your referencing ideas from the past.
Posted by Video_Game_King
@Ragdrazi: 
 
We're still pretty pissed about that fucking flag thing. We have history books, and we know what happens when European cultures branch out. Hint: nothing good happens.
 
Huh? Yea, they do. Again, Moon stuff. Should robots have genders, or would it be unsettling as hell? That has its roots in early robot designs and stuff. Still, I'm guessing we could sum this up by saying that the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Posted by Ragdrazi
@Zithe said:
" @Ragdrazi: I have an honest question: Do non-gamers in China think gaming is a waste of time? If so, does the "Protestant work ethic" ideology apply to them as well? "
Are there a lot of people who can afford games in China? I don't know.
 
I do know that much of what has been happening in the last 30 years has been about the Protestant Work Ethic expressed (with mind bending bizarreness) in the concept of the Post-Industrialism overwriting the ideals of other people through force. China makes all of our stuff, because we made them make all of our stuff. Presumably, if we had not forced them to do it, they wouldn't have volunteered. So that doesn't seem like a fair example.
Posted by Zithe
@Video_Game_King said:
" I imagine it's yes and no, respectively, but I know that I'm probably wrong. "
This is how I would answer as well, but I am interested to hear from Ragdrazi or CatsAkimbo. If we see eye-to-eye on this then there must be another explanation for why people see gamers as lazy.
Posted by MaddProdigy
@Zithe said:
" Seems like you might be over-thinking here. I believe most people consider gamers to be lazy and wasting their time because of the way gaming looks from their perspective. When I am sitting on my couch playing a game for 3 or 4 hours and people walk by, all they see is me sitting there looking at the screen with a controller in my hand. When they come by hours later, they see the same thing. I don't think they must be workaholics to call this lazy. You could chalk it up partially to their ignorance, and partially to the fact that it's sort of true. Being a gamer might not make you an outright lazy person, but the act of playing a game is rarely demanding. "
This dude knows wassup. It's not so much that workaholics look down on gamers, which is a ridiculously un descriptive summary of your topic I'm sorry. It's that whenever you see someone gaming they are/have been sitting on a couch in a pile of nachos and mountain dew, without showers or sleep, drawn shades and all that. You're not going to call gamers active are you?
Posted by Ragdrazi
@Video_Game_King said:
" @Ragdrazi:   Should robots have genders, or would it be unsettling as hell? "

ROBOTS SHOULD HAVE GENDERS.
You know it's going to happen.
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