Something went wrong. Try again later

DarkGamerOO7

This user has not updated recently.

610 375 0 2
Forum Posts Wiki Points Following Followers

Why Move and Kinect are bound to failure.

Price: The Coffin

For this scenario let us assume that Family A is looking at purchasing their first video game console system and that Family A is composed of a father, mother, and two children under the age of 10.  The first purchase the family needs to make is the console itself:  (Note all prices are from new items at  GameStop, and I'm only including what is the most current model, this means the Wii, Playstation 3 Slim, and Xbox 360 S)
 
ConsolePrice
 Wii $199.99
 Xbox 360 S (250GB)
 $299.99
 Playstation 3 Slim (120GB)
 $299.99

Already the Wii is $100 cheaper than the other two systems; now Family A is in it for motion controls and will need at least two motion controllers. Remember the Wii will only need one more Wii-Mote and Nunchuck as it already comes with one, the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 do not come with motion controllers out of the box.
 
Console
Price for Motion Controller(s)
 Wii Wii-mote/ Wii Motion Plus Bundle +  Nunchuck:  $74.98
 Xbox 360
 Kinect: $149.99
 Playstation 3
 Move/Nav/EyeToy Bundle + Second Move/Nav Controller: $179.97
 
Total cost of console with two extra motion controls:
 
Console
Price with Motion Controls
 Wii $274.97
 Xbox 360
 $449.98
 Playstation 3
 $479.96
 
Now I do understand that it is rumored that a cheaper Xbox 360 SKU will be available that will cost around $199.99 but as of now it is only a rumor, and I also understand that Microsoft will release Kinect Bundles that will cost $400 for the 250 GB Xbox 360 S model and $300 for the rumored cheaper Xbox 360 S model, however for comparisons sake, I do not yet know what the cheaper Xbox 360 S model will have different from the current model so for right now I will just use the 250 GB model. 
 
On top of all this the Wii is already packaged with two games, Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort, as of now it seems as if you will have to purchase the Move and Kinect equivalents of those games separately and if you want to play other games that do not use Kinect or Move like Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, Ratchet and Clank, or  Lego Star Wars and wish to play them with more than one person you might even be required to purchase a second non-motion controller for the system.
 

Games: The First Couple of Nails

The second most obvious problem with the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 is their lack of more family friendly games. Sure both are plentiful with multiplatform games oriented more towards families but those can be played on the Wii too, with motion controls already I might add. The Xbox 360 has Viva Pinata, Kameo, and Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts but neither of those games grab the attention of kids. The Playstation 3 has Ratchet and Clank, LittleBigPlanet, and LittleBigPlanet 2, and while it is true Ratchet and Clank is better known IP to kids than say Viva Pinata, it still isn't enough. With the Wii you get Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess, The Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword, Mario Kart, Mario Party, New Super Mario Bros, Wario Land, Animal Crossing etc. The Wii is also fully backwards compatible with all GameCube games providing even more family friend games to play for incredibly cheap prices. The Playstation 3 doesn't have Playstation 2 backwards compatibility, and the Xbox 360 can play some of the Xbox's library of games but  again non of the those games really would appeal to families or younger gamers, except for maybe Grabbed by the Ghoulies. 
 
Obviously both Microsoft and Sony are putting more family and kid friendly games out on the Xbox 360 and Playstation with Kinect and Move support but it still isn't enough, all the games demoed for Kinect and Move looked like games that you could find the on the Wii, and cheaper I might add. Nothing really stands out of the games shown so far that really impresses. Kinect Sports is Wii Sports in disguise and the fitness game by Ubisoft is just Wii Fit in disguise. Move didn't even have anything worth noting that would look to be a hit outside of Sorcery and Sly Collection. 
 

Image: The Final Nail

Talking about games brings me to this point of image. When I think of the Xbox 360 I think of this....

No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided

and when I think of Sony and the Playstation 3 I think of this...
 

No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided

That is what I think of, to an extent, when I think of Microsoft and the Xbox 360 or Sony and the Playstation 3, and that is what many parents would and do see too. Now think about the Wii, what do you think of? Zelda, Mario, Wii Sports, Wii-Fit etc. It is true that there are more mature games on the system like Manhunt, Dead Space: Extraction, and Call of Duty 4, but they don't represent the overall image of the Wii like the Gears of War, Halo and Call of Duty represent the image of the Xbox 360 or Killzone 2, Resistance, and Grand Theft Auto represent the image of the Playstation 3.  Family Friendly is the last thing I think of when I think about either the Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 and Nintendo is probably the first and I think many people would and will agree with that.
 

Conclusion

Move and Kinect will be unable to jump over the hurdles they face in order to be successful and do what Microsoft and Sony are trying to do, steal the Wii Market. At this point it is pointless for Sony and Microsoft to do what they are doing. They shouldn't be trying to imitate Nintendo because when they try to they just become a second rate Nintendo. Sony should be Sony and Microsoft should be Microsoft. The price alone should kill Move and Kinect but when you throw on the fact that the Wii already has so much of the market and name recognition that it will be impossible for Sony or Microsoft to even dent that, even if they may have better graphics, features, and value in their consoles. The best example I can think of is Apple and the iPod. Yeah the Zune might be a better overall product than the iPod but it was a laughable attempt on Microsoft's part to try and gain the iPod market. The fact that most people use the term iPod and MP3 player synonymously meant the Zune was doomed from the start. People are comfortable with the iPod and when they here the term MP3 player they think iPod or Apple and the same goes for the Wii. Motion Controls at this point is synonymous with Wii and people feel comfortable with the Wii, even people who have never played or care about video games have played or own a Wii and know how to use it and any attempt to try and steal the market from the Wii is bound to end in failure.

  -DarkGamerOO7
21 Comments

21 Comments

Avatar image for darkgameroo7
DarkGamerOO7

610

Forum Posts

375

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 10

Edited By DarkGamerOO7

Price: The Coffin

For this scenario let us assume that Family A is looking at purchasing their first video game console system and that Family A is composed of a father, mother, and two children under the age of 10.  The first purchase the family needs to make is the console itself:  (Note all prices are from new items at  GameStop, and I'm only including what is the most current model, this means the Wii, Playstation 3 Slim, and Xbox 360 S)
 
ConsolePrice
 Wii $199.99
 Xbox 360 S (250GB)
 $299.99
 Playstation 3 Slim (120GB)
 $299.99

Already the Wii is $100 cheaper than the other two systems; now Family A is in it for motion controls and will need at least two motion controllers. Remember the Wii will only need one more Wii-Mote and Nunchuck as it already comes with one, the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 do not come with motion controllers out of the box.
 
Console
Price for Motion Controller(s)
 Wii Wii-mote/ Wii Motion Plus Bundle +  Nunchuck:  $74.98
 Xbox 360
 Kinect: $149.99
 Playstation 3
 Move/Nav/EyeToy Bundle + Second Move/Nav Controller: $179.97
 
Total cost of console with two extra motion controls:
 
Console
Price with Motion Controls
 Wii $274.97
 Xbox 360
 $449.98
 Playstation 3
 $479.96
 
Now I do understand that it is rumored that a cheaper Xbox 360 SKU will be available that will cost around $199.99 but as of now it is only a rumor, and I also understand that Microsoft will release Kinect Bundles that will cost $400 for the 250 GB Xbox 360 S model and $300 for the rumored cheaper Xbox 360 S model, however for comparisons sake, I do not yet know what the cheaper Xbox 360 S model will have different from the current model so for right now I will just use the 250 GB model. 
 
On top of all this the Wii is already packaged with two games, Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort, as of now it seems as if you will have to purchase the Move and Kinect equivalents of those games separately and if you want to play other games that do not use Kinect or Move like Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, Ratchet and Clank, or  Lego Star Wars and wish to play them with more than one person you might even be required to purchase a second non-motion controller for the system.
 

Games: The First Couple of Nails

The second most obvious problem with the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 is their lack of more family friendly games. Sure both are plentiful with multiplatform games oriented more towards families but those can be played on the Wii too, with motion controls already I might add. The Xbox 360 has Viva Pinata, Kameo, and Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts but neither of those games grab the attention of kids. The Playstation 3 has Ratchet and Clank, LittleBigPlanet, and LittleBigPlanet 2, and while it is true Ratchet and Clank is better known IP to kids than say Viva Pinata, it still isn't enough. With the Wii you get Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess, The Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword, Mario Kart, Mario Party, New Super Mario Bros, Wario Land, Animal Crossing etc. The Wii is also fully backwards compatible with all GameCube games providing even more family friend games to play for incredibly cheap prices. The Playstation 3 doesn't have Playstation 2 backwards compatibility, and the Xbox 360 can play some of the Xbox's library of games but  again non of the those games really would appeal to families or younger gamers, except for maybe Grabbed by the Ghoulies. 
 
Obviously both Microsoft and Sony are putting more family and kid friendly games out on the Xbox 360 and Playstation with Kinect and Move support but it still isn't enough, all the games demoed for Kinect and Move looked like games that you could find the on the Wii, and cheaper I might add. Nothing really stands out of the games shown so far that really impresses. Kinect Sports is Wii Sports in disguise and the fitness game by Ubisoft is just Wii Fit in disguise. Move didn't even have anything worth noting that would look to be a hit outside of Sorcery and Sly Collection. 
 

Image: The Final Nail

Talking about games brings me to this point of image. When I think of the Xbox 360 I think of this....

No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided

and when I think of Sony and the Playstation 3 I think of this...
 

No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided

That is what I think of, to an extent, when I think of Microsoft and the Xbox 360 or Sony and the Playstation 3, and that is what many parents would and do see too. Now think about the Wii, what do you think of? Zelda, Mario, Wii Sports, Wii-Fit etc. It is true that there are more mature games on the system like Manhunt, Dead Space: Extraction, and Call of Duty 4, but they don't represent the overall image of the Wii like the Gears of War, Halo and Call of Duty represent the image of the Xbox 360 or Killzone 2, Resistance, and Grand Theft Auto represent the image of the Playstation 3.  Family Friendly is the last thing I think of when I think about either the Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 and Nintendo is probably the first and I think many people would and will agree with that.
 

Conclusion

Move and Kinect will be unable to jump over the hurdles they face in order to be successful and do what Microsoft and Sony are trying to do, steal the Wii Market. At this point it is pointless for Sony and Microsoft to do what they are doing. They shouldn't be trying to imitate Nintendo because when they try to they just become a second rate Nintendo. Sony should be Sony and Microsoft should be Microsoft. The price alone should kill Move and Kinect but when you throw on the fact that the Wii already has so much of the market and name recognition that it will be impossible for Sony or Microsoft to even dent that, even if they may have better graphics, features, and value in their consoles. The best example I can think of is Apple and the iPod. Yeah the Zune might be a better overall product than the iPod but it was a laughable attempt on Microsoft's part to try and gain the iPod market. The fact that most people use the term iPod and MP3 player synonymously meant the Zune was doomed from the start. People are comfortable with the iPod and when they here the term MP3 player they think iPod or Apple and the same goes for the Wii. Motion Controls at this point is synonymous with Wii and people feel comfortable with the Wii, even people who have never played or care about video games have played or own a Wii and know how to use it and any attempt to try and steal the market from the Wii is bound to end in failure.

  -DarkGamerOO7
Avatar image for organicalistic_
Organicalistic_

3092

Forum Posts

391

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Organicalistic_

I see wat u mean, but i think nintendo should drop the motion controls and remake the gamecube

Avatar image for eljay
eljay

166

Forum Posts

382

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 6

Edited By eljay

While I do agree that overall Nintendo won't lose a lot of momentum due to Kinect and Move launching later this year, I think you're a little too harsh in your assessment.
 
The Kinect has serious potential to appeal to the casual market, thanks to Dance Central and Your Shape / EA Sports Active 2. E3 has shown these games work with the device and may generate enough buzz to sell units the same way Wii Sports single-handedly sold the Wii. The problem is the Kinect has not shown any potential to appeal beyond this small group of games which utilize total body movements and no controller. If the Kinect is priced sub-$100 and a Xbox Acrade bundle is released, it may just work out for Microsoft long enough to figure out a strategic plan for the thing.
 
Sony needs to convince the traditional gaming market that the Move is something they need, which is a far more arduous task. We'll find out how many people truly want a Wii HD, but without the benefit of all of the Nintendo characters.

Avatar image for napalm
napalm

9227

Forum Posts

162

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By napalm

That's far too long. It seems the big contention you bring up is the price point. I won't be investing in anything until I can do some crazy Minority Report-type shit.

Avatar image for liquidprince
LiquidPrince

17073

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

Edited By LiquidPrince

Why would you calculate two Move controllers in the price?

Avatar image for clubsandwich
clubsandwich

3961

Forum Posts

2399

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

Edited By clubsandwich

not to sound like but a dick, but yeah you're stating the obvious brah.

Avatar image for darkgameroo7
DarkGamerOO7

610

Forum Posts

375

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 10

Edited By DarkGamerOO7
@LiquidPrince said:
" Why would you calculate two Move controllers in the price? "
So there are enough controllers for two people.
Avatar image for archscabby
ArchScabby

5876

Forum Posts

755

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By ArchScabby

I'm not trying to make fun of you or anything, because I'm being serious when I say "bound to failure" is an awesome saying.  It rolls right off the tongue.  I love saying it!

Avatar image for mazik765
mazik765

2372

Forum Posts

2258

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By mazik765

If anything the Move is more likely to fail since not only do they have to appeal to a casual Wii market but also convince hardcore players that this Wii-mote ripoff is something they would rather use than a controller. Like having Move support for Killzone 3? Seriously? I know why they did it, because they want the list of Move capable games to be as large as possible, but who is going to buy Move to play games they could normally play with Sony's top notch controller that they already own.

Avatar image for sjschmidt93
sjschmidt93

5014

Forum Posts

3236

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 37

User Lists: 20

Edited By sjschmidt93

I only read the first paragraph, but for starters, "Family A" is going to be the $150 Arcade, not the $300 Slim Elite.

Avatar image for benpack
benpack

3926

Forum Posts

7030

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 14

Edited By benpack

You're assuming that the main source of sales for the Move and Kinect will be those without the console already.

Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

Edited By Hailinel
@organicalistic_ said:
" I see wat u mean, but i think nintendo should drop the motion controls and remake the gamecube "
Right, because the GameCube was such a resounding success.
 
(That's sarcasm, for those of you that can't tell.)
Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

Edited By Hailinel
@LiquidPrince said:
" Why would you calculate two Move controllers in the price? "
I think it's fair enough.  If you want to play multiplayer Move games, chances are you'll need at least two Move wands, and some games will actually require the use of two Move wands together.
Avatar image for liquidprince
LiquidPrince

17073

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

Edited By LiquidPrince
@Hailinel said:
" @LiquidPrince said:
" Why would you calculate two Move controllers in the price? "
I think it's fair enough.  If you want to play multiplayer Move games, chances are you'll need at least two Move wands, and some games will actually require the use of two Move wands together. "
Not really. The difference between PS3 and Wii is that PS3 is a far better online capable machine, meaning most of the games you'll be playing multiplayer, you'll be doing it online. You're not going to play Socom/Killzone locally.
Avatar image for icemael
Icemael

6901

Forum Posts

40352

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 20

User Lists: 20

Edited By Icemael
@organicalistic_ said:

" I see wat u mean, but i think nintendo should drop the motion controls and remake the gamecube "

I know everybody likes to hate on the Wii because "it's for kids and old people lol", but sorry, the Wii's library kicks the Gamecube library's ass. Sure, it's got more shovelware, and even a higher percentage of shovelware, but it's still got a higher number of quality games.
Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

Edited By Hailinel
@LiquidPrince said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @LiquidPrince said:
" Why would you calculate two Move controllers in the price? "
I think it's fair enough.  If you want to play multiplayer Move games, chances are you'll need at least two Move wands, and some games will actually require the use of two Move wands together. "
Not really. The difference between PS3 and Wii is that PS3 is a far better online capable machine, meaning most of the games you'll be playing multiplayer, you'll be doing it online. You're not going to play Socom/Killzone locally. "
The casual audience that Sony and Microsoft want to attract with these motion controls aren't necessarily into the online multiplayer of the CoD crowd.  People enjoy games like Wii Sports because they can get together with friends and play the game in the same room for a good time.  It's not about online leader boards, tea bagging, or having to put up with foul-mouthed twelve-year-olds.
 
And sure you'll be able to play games like SOCOM with the Move, but how many long-time SOCOM fans do you expect will actually ditch the controls they know on the DualShock for something that has an extra price tag attached to the point of entry?  With the Wii, it's expected that you'll use the Wii Remote.  It's the default controller.  You buy the console, you're going to use it.  The Move is not the default PS3 controller.  Buying the console does not guarantee that you'll buy anything Move-related.
 
I'm already a PS3 owner, and I honestly have yet to see any Move-supporting game that I have any interest in.  It's very likely that I'll never buy a move-specific game, and for any other game that does support Move, I'll play using the DS3.  Why?  Because I don't yet feel the need to buy all of the extra equipment it will take to play the average Move game in either single or multiplayer format.  I did not buy the PS3 expecting it to become a Wii wannabe.  I bought it because I wanted gameplay experiences that I couldn't just as easily find on the Wii.
Avatar image for organicalistic_
Organicalistic_

3092

Forum Posts

391

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Organicalistic_
@Icemael said:
" @organicalistic_ said:

" I see wat u mean, but i think nintendo should drop the motion controls and remake the gamecube "

I know everybody likes to hate on the Wii because "it's for kids and old people lol", but sorry, the Wii's library kicks the Gamecube library's ass. Sure, it's got more shovelware, and even a higher percentage of shovelware, but it's still got a higher number of quality games. "
well, it is not about the games it is about the controls, for me at least
Avatar image for icemael
Icemael

6901

Forum Posts

40352

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 20

User Lists: 20

Edited By Icemael
@organicalistic_ said:
" @Icemael said:
" @organicalistic_ said:

" I see wat u mean, but i think nintendo should drop the motion controls and remake the gamecube "

I know everybody likes to hate on the Wii because "it's for kids and old people lol", but sorry, the Wii's library kicks the Gamecube library's ass. Sure, it's got more shovelware, and even a higher percentage of shovelware, but it's still got a higher number of quality games. "
well, it is not about the games it is about the controls, for me at least "
Motion and IR controls are only a pain in games that utilize them poorly, and most of the games that utilize them poorly aren't what I'd consider quality games. In fact, many of my favorite Wii games use motion control sparingly, or even not at all.
Avatar image for devwil
DevWil

976

Forum Posts

8022

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 7

Edited By DevWil

kinect isn't comparable to sony and nintendo's motion controllers. 
 
i'm not saying it's necessarily better, but it does something completely different.  it tracks your body, not your manipulation of an object. 
 
i was thinking about this today: golf games are an obvious fit for the wii and PS3 move controller.  not so much for the kinect.

Avatar image for norusdog
Norusdog

356

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Norusdog

I, honestly, hope they do fail.  I'm just not into motion controls at this point.  Wii is a gimick, a "casual" console, and it works great for it.  As someone else said it already COMES WITH the controllers...
 
add-ons...almost NEVER do well (Guitar Hero is an exception not a rule)....and, again as someone said, why would the average person pay that kinda money EXTRA to play something when they can just use what they already have.
 
and as I've said in other posts....I play games to relax, I go to the gym to flail about like an idiot.....I game on my Wii rarely because of this..Nintendo does great games, but it's inferior tech that FEELS old..because it is old...it just has motion control as a gimick and they were lucky enough to be the first and casual enough (and cheap enough) to get it out there and make it appealing.
 
I just don't see these overpriced gimicks doing well...and I'm glad and hope they don't....
 
I won't be interested in motion-control until we have mainstream, cheap, GOOD 3D..or virtual reality.
 
so fail away...please god..fail away.

Avatar image for mikkaq
MikkaQ

10296

Forum Posts

52

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By MikkaQ

The OP forgets that some families like to see spending more money as buying the superior product. There's enough people with that kinda money willing to go for 'em. They will both sell fine, if you ask me.