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Isnagov

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Do cheap moments mean bad game design?

These blogs are all short, I don't want to read 2,000 words from a random stranger so I don't expect you to. Shao Kahn in Mortal Kombat (2011) is cheap. I know this, you know this, but for some reason my wife didn't know this. So, last night I lay there trying to explain to her what a cheap moment was and why it was so annoying. I said, "Cheap is when you spend a whole game being told 'this is the way you play this game' and then you are presented with a situation where those rules no longer apply." And then she dropped the perceptive bombshell, "Yeah, that's just lazy and uncreative." As our scar-faced gangster, Omar says, "Oh, indeed."


What do you all think? Is this lazy and uncreative or is it simply an old-school necessity that I do not yet understand.
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Isnagov

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Edited By Isnagov

These blogs are all short, I don't want to read 2,000 words from a random stranger so I don't expect you to. Shao Kahn in Mortal Kombat (2011) is cheap. I know this, you know this, but for some reason my wife didn't know this. So, last night I lay there trying to explain to her what a cheap moment was and why it was so annoying. I said, "Cheap is when you spend a whole game being told 'this is the way you play this game' and then you are presented with a situation where those rules no longer apply." And then she dropped the perceptive bombshell, "Yeah, that's just lazy and uncreative." As our scar-faced gangster, Omar says, "Oh, indeed."


What do you all think? Is this lazy and uncreative or is it simply an old-school necessity that I do not yet understand.
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dbz1995

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Edited By dbz1995

I'd say that a few FF bosses are incredibly cheap, but you don't have to really change the way you play-you just have to do it more.
 I don't think Shao Kahn is lazy or uncreative. I think he's how the guys at Netherrealm wanted him to be. Nice Kill Bill avatar, by the way. I think.

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SSully

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Edited By SSully

Yeah, I think so. I believe good game design means the developers can create a challenge with the rules they set during the game. For a recent example, Portal 2. Every puzzle, and the final boss fight, can be solved with the rules you learn throughout the game. 

I believe all games should follow this kind of game design, when possible. 

In Mortal Kombats case, it isn't exactly possible. There are only so many things they can do to challenge you in a fighting game. 
1. Fight multiple enemies
2. Have your enemy receive less damage
3. Make your enemy superior to you, which usually is cheap.

MK went with all of these during the game, and Shao Khan happens to be number 3. So yeah, it is cheap, but I would say it is bad game design because there arent many options when it comes to fighting games. 
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RudeJohn

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Edited By RudeJohn
@Isnagov said:
" These blogs are all short, I don't want to read 2,000 words from a random stranger so I don't expect you to.
^THIS^

I seriously wish more people would adopt this attitude toward blogging.

Too many of the blogs on Giant Bomb are just so fucking long-winded and pointless. Which is unfortunate because Giant Bomb attracts a good crowd, but so many of them buy into the myth that the only good blog post is a long, rambling, multi-media blog post. But dull is dull no matter how many coats of paint you slop on it.

Which brings me to another pet peeve, the "top poster" myth. Again, all that matters is volume. Just sit your ass in front of the terminal and post 50 inane responses per day for a month and you too can be a "top poster." But, why the fuck would I? Why does anyone? (Well, other than for massive case of OCD.)

People can be so weird.  :-D
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iam3green

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Edited By iam3green

i would say playing cheap would be making the enemies stronger than you are. i think boss fights are usually cheap because they make them stronger than you.

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Mechabolic

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Edited By Mechabolic

I think you forgot that during the 90s the majority of games were "cheap".  Super star wars for the SNES, TMNT for the NES, The Lion King's second level with the ostriches... Shao Khan is slightly below a typical SNK boss.

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Caligula

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Edited By Caligula

Sounds like a bunch of people have never played an MK game if they didn't see this coming. this is how every MK Boss has been.... ever, no exceptions. It's fun. For Old School gamers like me, I want my games and bosses fight hard/cheap as all fuck.

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Video_Game_King

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Edited By Video_Game_King

As always, I'd have to take this on a case-by-case basis.

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Caligula

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Edited By Caligula

when you finally conqueror something that feels like it was cheating. You feel accomplished, knowing the deck was stacked in the opponents favor and yet you prevailed like the dogs of war.

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AltonBrown

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Edited By AltonBrown

Wait until you have to fight three Shao Kahns in a row on the challenge tower.

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Caligula

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Edited By Caligula
@AltonBrown said:
" Wait until you have to fight three Shao Kahns in a row on the challenge tower. "
once you have Shao Khan down, he's easy. it's figuring out how to beat him that's the hard part.
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xpgamer7

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Edited By xpgamer7

There are two sides. Sometimes it's bad game design when something cheap happens(Death, end of a level) but sometimes it's a tool to open up a game to inexperienced players. A good player playing a cheap character has little more chance than a weak playing using the same character. On the other hand a Good player using a tough character is more likely to do well. It's like a tutorial.

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The_Laughing_Man

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Edited By The_Laughing_Man
@Mechabolic said:
"  The Lion King's second level with the ostriches... "
And this is why my childhood was so fucked up.