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LinksOcarina

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A Gay Old Time

 

As a gamer, you sometimes forget about the differences that people may have from each other. The stereotypes of gamer geeks and manchildren are somewhat eradicated now, because of am emerging casual market, and a lot of different groups of gamers are coming into the fold. Recently though, the LGBT gaming community has hit a speedbump, thanks to a ridiculous Microsoft policy.

Now as a bisexual, I have had a fair share of discrimination from people (New York is liberal, but not THAT liberal, at least where I live.) but on an online forum, where everyone is anonymous, I usually don’t put out my sexual preferences. Plus, I have a plethora of gay friends online, and we have done countless rounds of Soul Calibur, Left 4 Dead, and Rock Band together without incident. But since the whole scandal between Microsoft’s really somewhat intolerable policies on posting your sexuality over X-box live, it’s become somewhat sticky for the company to keep their public image.

What happened is a woman playing on live had her account banned because she had said she was a lesbian in her profile. The woman was harassed online for a while, until Microsoft banned her name, saying that it was a violation of terms of service. Microsoft went on to say that saying anything about your sexuality, whether it be “straight” “bi” or “gay”, is essentially a bannable offense, if deemed by the higher powers of the company.

The policy is, frankly, too zero tolerance. While I can understand Microsoft trying to avoid conflicts, because anonymity online leads to thousands saying things they normally wouldn’t say, I personally think this is just pushing off a rather important issue. People will always be, for a lack of a better word, dicks online. Hell, any game where I get called “gay” for winning is proof of that. When someone is actually gay, and he or she gets harassed doubly so because of identifying themselves as such, it should be expected that there would be some intolerant and close-minded idiots out there.

But is it right to do punish the victim over it? Microsoft is asking them this question, and has recently tried to apologize for this, claiming that their own banning policies are “inelegant” and is looking to revamp the system to make it friendlier for online interaction. One idea was to implement symbols that would denote your orientation, according to Stephen Toulouse, the program manager for policy and enforcement on X-Box live.

But if Microsoft really wants to change their policies, they may have to look inward first, and deal with their own issues. Recently, Microsoft is under fire once again, this time being sued by an employee of their subsidiary, Lionhead Studios. Lionhead, as you know, is the creator of games such as Black and White, the Fable series and The Movies. Microsoft purchased the English studio two years ago, and that is when the trouble began for Jamie Durrant, an 11-year vet of the company and a senior game designer. At his work studio in England, the human resources department has, since last January, been harassing Durrant due to his sexual orientation, sending defamatory emails and posting homophobic messages in his office.

Durrant, who became under stress from this, appealed to the HR department chair, which promised to send emails reminding the staff on how to behave in an office that is diverse. Sadly, the emails never went out, and when Durrant inquired why, he was told that the firm “would have to draw up new policies before an email could be sent.”

This is significant, because, Microsoft, back in 1989, was one of the first companies to already HAVE policies of non-discrimination in regards to sexual orientation.

Durrant “was allegedly asked to sign a document agreeing not to raise a formal grievance and confirming that he was happy his complaint was being dealt with. He said that he refused but it was agreed that Microsoft would post its anti-discrimination policy on the firm's intranet for staff to see.”

Durrant’s grievance is probably blown out of proportion, but it does make you scratch your head for a second. Why would a company blatantly lie to an employee who is being harassed? Of course, Microsoft is denying this ever happened, and the whole he said she said back and forth will likely follow, but it’s somewhat interesting to see Microsoft being called hypocritical, especially on the heels of a very unpopular policy action one month ago.

Maybe it’s just the timing of the two events being so close that makes this more important, but all the same, it’s fairly bad publicity for Microsoft. Perhaps if they would enact a stricter policy of tolerance, this might have blowed over. Maybe if Microsoft would just accept that there are tons of homosexuals playing Halo 3 as much as heterosexuals, then this will become a non-issue. Be that as it may, controlling a workforce is one thing, controlling the internet is another.

But as gamers, we need to recognize differences of others. I may be a bisexual, but so what? It doesn't make me less of a gamer. I can probably shred faster than you in Rock Band, just as much as you can snipe me in Halo. Sexuality never should be an issue when playing a game, or making one for that matter. Gamers are just as diverse as any other social group, and embracing that diversity, be it tolerance or acceptance, should be step one in solving these issues of discrimination. This is, perhaps, the true lesson that Microsoft needs to learn, not just for the sake of one employee, but for the sake of their clients, who just want to have a good time.

Links to the articles:

Xbox Designer Accuses Microsoft of Homophobia

Xbox Live Bans Lesbian Gamer, Microsoft Apologizes
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61 Comments

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Scooper

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@oldschool said:

" @Scooper said:

" You shouldn't explicity post your sexuality for no reason unless you're asked by somebody and you feel comfortable answering. It's not like I put "I'm strait!" in my profile in the hopes people treat me differentaly or that women will message me.  You hear alot that gay people say they want to be treated just like everyone else and that people shouldn't change the way they feel about them or act around them just because they're gay and then put in their profile there sexual preference. Why!? If a strait person doesn't then why do some bisexuals and gays need to? If you want to be treated like everyone else then be like everyone else and don't publicaly announce your sexuality when nobody's asking. "

I am curious, if that is true, then surely any online service should be truly anonymous?  Your profile should not have sex, age, country - nothing.  In fact, you shouldn't have a name as that only leads to people identifying themselves by it.  Clearly everyone should be assigned a random numerical number (not 1, 2 et cetera, as we don't want to identify here was there early and who is new).  To finish it, there should be no avatars they also identify you in some way.  Only when you are then truly anonymous and nondescript, then it is fair to everyone. "
Not saying that but it's annoying when people go "HEY EVERYONE DID YOU KNOW I'M GAY!?" and then bitch when people treat them differentaly or give them attention because of it. You don't hear people say "Hi, my name's **** and I'm strait!" so why do people feel the need to tell everyone they're gay. 
 
On your subject of no one should have their sex, age, country or name. I don't think that's bad if people do. I don't care if you're 14 or 40, male or female, come from Cali or China, called Bob or Bobette. Maybe I'd care if I was on a dating site, I want to know alot about the person I'm talking to on there but on a game profile or game forum? It's cool to know who people are but I'm not really interested.
 
Anyways, I don't really care about it that much for an argument I just threw out my thoughts at the time.
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ryanwho

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Edited By ryanwho
@WinterSnowblind said:
" I actually agree with Microsoft here.  I'm all for black rights, etc, but it's a gamer profile.  Posting information about your race there was asking for trouble. If you're filling in a job application for example, it doesn't need to ask if you're black or white, and I'm pretty sure nobody would add in a section that states if they are.  It reminds me of the whole "Only black in the village" sketch from Little Britian.  She was just looking for attention. "
Hmm.
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HandsomeDead

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@WinterSnowblind said:
"If you're filling in a job application for example, it doesn't need to ask if you're straight or gay, and I'm pretty sure nobody would add in a section that states if they are."
When I was looking for a job this year, I was told that I should mention if I was gay or bisexual in the application.
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ryanwho

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@Scooper said:

" @oldschool said:

" @Scooper said:
" You shouldn't explicity post your sexuality for no reason unless you're asked by somebody and you feel comfortable answering. It's not like I put "I'm strait!" in my profile in the hopes people treat me differentaly or that women will message me.  You hear alot that gay people say they want to be treated just like everyone else and that people shouldn't change the way they feel about them or act around them just because they're gay and then put in their profile there sexual preference. Why!? If a strait person doesn't then why do some bisexuals and gays need to? If you want to be treated like everyone else then be like everyone else and don't publicaly announce your sexuality when nobody's asking. "
I am curious, if that is true, then surely any online service should be truly anonymous?  Your profile should not have sex, age, country - nothing.  In fact, you shouldn't have a name as that only leads to people identifying themselves by it.  Clearly everyone should be assigned a random numerical number (not 1, 2 et cetera, as we don't want to identify here was there early and who is new).  To finish it, there should be no avatars they also identify you in some way.  Only when you are then truly anonymous and nondescript, then it is fair to everyone. "
Not saying that but it's annoying when people go "HEY EVERYONE DID YOU KNOW I'M GAY!?" and then bitch when people treat them differentaly or give them attention because of it. You don't hear people say "Hi, my name's **** and I'm strait!"so why do people feel the need to tell everyone they're gay.
 
Anyways, I don't really care about it that much for an argument I just threw out my thoughts at the time. "
Because they're being denied civil rights and being segregated against. There's nothing brave about admitting you're straight, but you can still get killed in some parts of the world for admitting you're gay. Even in modern  society many people treat homosexuality either like something to be ashamed of or something to be hidden, that's why people tell others they're gay. You obviously don't get it, cracker.
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Scooper

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Edited By Scooper
@ryanwho said:
" @Scooper said:

" @oldschool said:

" @Scooper said:
" You shouldn't explicity post your sexuality for no reason unless you're asked by somebody and you feel comfortable answering. It's not like I put "I'm strait!" in my profile in the hopes people treat me differentaly or that women will message me.  You hear alot that gay people say they want to be treated just like everyone else and that people shouldn't change the way they feel about them or act around them just because they're gay and then put in their profile there sexual preference. Why!? If a strait person doesn't then why do some bisexuals and gays need to? If you want to be treated like everyone else then be like everyone else and don't publicaly announce your sexuality when nobody's asking. "
I am curious, if that is true, then surely any online service should be truly anonymous?  Your profile should not have sex, age, country - nothing.  In fact, you shouldn't have a name as that only leads to people identifying themselves by it.  Clearly everyone should be assigned a random numerical number (not 1, 2 et cetera, as we don't want to identify here was there early and who is new).  To finish it, there should be no avatars they also identify you in some way.  Only when you are then truly anonymous and nondescript, then it is fair to everyone. "
Not saying that but it's annoying when people go "HEY EVERYONE DID YOU KNOW I'M GAY!?" and then bitch when people treat them differentaly or give them attention because of it. You don't hear people say "Hi, my name's **** and I'm strait!"so why do people feel the need to tell everyone they're gay.
 
Anyways, I don't really care about it that much for an argument I just threw out my thoughts at the time. "
Because they're being denied civil rights and being segregated against. There's nothing brave about admitting you're straight, but you can still get killed in some parts of the world for admitting you're gay. Even in modern  society many people treat homosexuality either like something to be ashamed of or something to be hidden, that's why people tell others they're gay. You obviously don't get it, cracker. "
I'm not that person denying them to do anything anyone else would. I have a gay friend and he been a mate all my life and I don't treat him any different to any other mate. But he also doesn't write that he's gay on his xbox account, he does on his facebook and has a partner he's happy with. I'm just saying there's places where you want to talk about your sexuality and places maybe you don't, not because you'll get bullied or harrassed but because it's a gamer profile -.-
 
Like I said. Not getting into an argument because I'm done with that.
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HandsomeDead

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I really can't even believe this is even a debate.

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FLStyle

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Edited By FLStyle

This thread is called a Gay Old Time but has no reference to The Flintstones in it. I am thoroughly disappointed and want my 30 seconds back :)

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Hamst3r

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@LinksOcarina said:
sexuality should be a non-issue all together"

It should, but there are droves of people that are incredibly frightened about anything regarding sexuality. Remember, God hates fags and fucking before your married and for any reason other than making children.
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If Microsoft doesn't want people putting their sexual orientation in their gamer profile, maybe they should overhaul the avatar system so it's impossible to tell another user's race. That's non-game related, personal information as well. I don't understand why it's okay for people to share some things about themselves but not others.
 
Is it so wrong for a minority to have a little pride and admit they exist? If you don't care about their sexual orientation, then why do you care whether it's in their profile or not? 
I mean, the reason nobody says "I'm straight" in their profile is because it is automatically assumed.  

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oldschool

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Edited By oldschool
@Scooper said:
" @ryanwho said:
" @Scooper said:

" @oldschool said:

" @Scooper said:
" You shouldn't explicity post your sexuality for no reason unless you're asked by somebody and you feel comfortable answering. It's not like I put "I'm strait!" in my profile in the hopes people treat me differentaly or that women will message me.  You hear alot that gay people say they want to be treated just like everyone else and that people shouldn't change the way they feel about them or act around them just because they're gay and then put in their profile there sexual preference. Why!? If a strait person doesn't then why do some bisexuals and gays need to? If you want to be treated like everyone else then be like everyone else and don't publicaly announce your sexuality when nobody's asking. "
I am curious, if that is true, then surely any online service should be truly anonymous?  Your profile should not have sex, age, country - nothing.  In fact, you shouldn't have a name as that only leads to people identifying themselves by it.  Clearly everyone should be assigned a random numerical number (not 1, 2 et cetera, as we don't want to identify here was there early and who is new).  To finish it, there should be no avatars they also identify you in some way.  Only when you are then truly anonymous and nondescript, then it is fair to everyone. "
Not saying that but it's annoying when people go "HEY EVERYONE DID YOU KNOW I'M GAY!?" and then bitch when people treat them differentaly or give them attention because of it. You don't hear people say "Hi, my name's **** and I'm strait!"so why do people feel the need to tell everyone they're gay.
 
Anyways, I don't really care about it that much for an argument I just threw out my thoughts at the time. "
Because they're being denied civil rights and being segregated against. There's nothing brave about admitting you're straight, but you can still get killed in some parts of the world for admitting you're gay. Even in modern  society many people treat homosexuality either like something to be ashamed of or something to be hidden, that's why people tell others they're gay. You obviously don't get it, cracker. "
I'm not that person denying them to do anything anyone else would. I have a gay friend and he been a mate all my life and I don't treat him any different to any other mate. But he also doesn't write that he's gay on his xbox account, he does on his facebook and has a partner he's happy with. I'm just saying there's places where you want to talk about your sexuality and places maybe you don't, not because you'll get bullied or harrassed but because it's a gamer profile -.-  Like I said. Not getting into an argument because I'm done with that. "
Scooper, it isn't that your points are not valid, they are.  I really want to avoid a scenario where we insult each other just because we disagree.  I am obviously on the side where you can define yourself any way you want, but I agree, if someone comes out screaming, "I'M GAY", that is annoying, simply as it is attention seeking.  The same goes for any other lame attention seeking behaviour.  However, if it is just written in your profile, I can't see the issue.   
 
Remember the guy who was here for a while that just started every thread concerning him being gay?  That was annoying.  It was right to say to him, "alright we get it, you're gay", because frankly, why would we care.  If it was in his profile and he didn't harp on it, no-one would have treated him any differently.  Take myself for example, I quite often state that I am old, have been married a long time and that I have kids.  For me, it is about defining myself, to give my posts a position of relevance - kind of, "hey, but I am old, so you need to keep my beliefs in that perspective".  It is who I am and I actually prefer to be honest on the internet - shocking, but true.  If someone doesn't want to talk with me because I am older, fair enough, I don't care. 
 
I am agreeing with your sentiment, but you are assuming that all gay people want to scream "I'm gay".  They don't, but they want to be known as being gay, as it helps identify themselves and increases their chances of finding like minded friends.  But peace Scooper, I am not criticising you.
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Scooper

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Edited By Scooper
@oldschool said:

" @Scooper said:

" @ryanwho said:
" @Scooper said:

" @oldschool said:

" @Scooper said:
" You shouldn't explicity post your sexuality for no reason unless you're asked by somebody and you feel comfortable answering. It's not like I put "I'm strait!" in my profile in the hopes people treat me differentaly or that women will message me.  You hear alot that gay people say they want to be treated just like everyone else and that people shouldn't change the way they feel about them or act around them just because they're gay and then put in their profile there sexual preference. Why!? If a strait person doesn't then why do some bisexuals and gays need to? If you want to be treated like everyone else then be like everyone else and don't publicaly announce your sexuality when nobody's asking. "
I am curious, if that is true, then surely any online service should be truly anonymous?  Your profile should not have sex, age, country - nothing.  In fact, you shouldn't have a name as that only leads to people identifying themselves by it.  Clearly everyone should be assigned a random numerical number (not 1, 2 et cetera, as we don't want to identify here was there early and who is new).  To finish it, there should be no avatars they also identify you in some way.  Only when you are then truly anonymous and nondescript, then it is fair to everyone. "
Not saying that but it's annoying when people go "HEY EVERYONE DID YOU KNOW I'M GAY!?" and then bitch when people treat them differentaly or give them attention because of it. You don't hear people say "Hi, my name's **** and I'm strait!"so why do people feel the need to tell everyone they're gay.
 
Anyways, I don't really care about it that much for an argument I just threw out my thoughts at the time. "
Because they're being denied civil rights and being segregated against. There's nothing brave about admitting you're straight, but you can still get killed in some parts of the world for admitting you're gay. Even in modern  society many people treat homosexuality either like something to be ashamed of or something to be hidden, that's why people tell others they're gay. You obviously don't get it, cracker. "
I'm not that person denying them to do anything anyone else would. I have a gay friend and he been a mate all my life and I don't treat him any different to any other mate. But he also doesn't write that he's gay on his xbox account, he does on his facebook and has a partner he's happy with. I'm just saying there's places where you want to talk about your sexuality and places maybe you don't, not because you'll get bullied or harrassed but because it's a gamer profile -.-  Like I said. Not getting into an argument because I'm done with that. "
Scooper, it isn't that your points are not valid, they are.  I really want to avoid a scenario where we insult each other just because we disagree.  I am obviously on the side where you can define yourself any way you want, but I agree, if someone comes out screaming, "I'M GAY", that is annoying, simply as it is attention seeking.  The same goes for any other lame attention seeking behaviour.  However, if it is just written in your profile, I can't see the issue.    Remember the guy who was here for a while that just started every thread concerning him being gay?  That was annoying.  It was right to say to him, "alright we get it, you're gay", because frankly, why would we care.  If it was in his profile and he didn't harp on it, no-one would have treated him any differently.  Take myself for example, I quite often state that I am old, have been married a long time and that I have kids.  For me, it is about defining myself, to give my posts a position of relevance - kind of, "hey, but I am old, so you need to keep my beliefs in that perspective".  It is who I am and I actually prefer to be honest on the internet - shocking, but true.  If someone doesn't want to talk with me because I am older, fair enough, I don't care.  I am agreeing with your sentiment, but you are assuming that all gay people want to scream "I'm gay".  They don't, but they want to be known as being gay, as it helps identify themselves and increases their chances of finding like minded friends.  But peace Scooper, I am not criticising you. "
 I don't assume all gay people want to scream about the fact because I know it not to be true, only that some do. 
 
I agree with everything you said here. I, personaly know you're an old geezer with kids from Aus, that's brilliant! A random user reading your post for the first time wouldn't know that nor care but that's not a bad thing either, they'd know that you're not a kid because it you can just feel that in people's writing but the regulars know who you are and I too prefer honesty in these sorta places or we end up with threads like "I've got a photoshoot..." well, we all know what threads we get here sometimes.
 
Maybe I was too hasty saying you shouldn't have that in your game profile as it wasn't like she was messaging people saying "I'm a lesbian!" since it is just a profile and people only check it if they want to know more info about that person anyway. I was in the mindset of it being in a place where people didn't care ie. forums when it wasn't. Again, I have no problem with someone writing about their orientation in a profile on GiantBomb even because if you click on someone's Bio you're interested in who they are so if you wanna write if you're gay there then that's cool. I just hate the shouting attention whores, wether they're gay or brats, I guess that's what my reaction was about really. I dislike attention seekers.
 
Also sorry if you thought I was directing my irritation at you. I wasn't. It was to ryanwho, he's always really rude to people and it pisses me off a bit. And that'll be all I say. I tend to get myself in trouble when I talk about anything like this becuase I just write exactaly what I'm thinking at that time, I obviously try not to offend anyone in particular and read it through a few times and if it blatentaly is I'll not post (I've spent over an hour once writing a post only to delete it all and not bother). Sometimes I'll get a @scooper the next day from someone disagreeing with a post and I reread what I wrote the night before and realise the gaping hole in my logic and my ignorance right open and I sometimes completely agree with what the guys replied to me with but at that point you can't do anything about it so whatever.