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LinksOcarina

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A Gay Old Time

 

As a gamer, you sometimes forget about the differences that people may have from each other. The stereotypes of gamer geeks and manchildren are somewhat eradicated now, because of am emerging casual market, and a lot of different groups of gamers are coming into the fold. Recently though, the LGBT gaming community has hit a speedbump, thanks to a ridiculous Microsoft policy.

Now as a bisexual, I have had a fair share of discrimination from people (New York is liberal, but not THAT liberal, at least where I live.) but on an online forum, where everyone is anonymous, I usually don’t put out my sexual preferences. Plus, I have a plethora of gay friends online, and we have done countless rounds of Soul Calibur, Left 4 Dead, and Rock Band together without incident. But since the whole scandal between Microsoft’s really somewhat intolerable policies on posting your sexuality over X-box live, it’s become somewhat sticky for the company to keep their public image.

What happened is a woman playing on live had her account banned because she had said she was a lesbian in her profile. The woman was harassed online for a while, until Microsoft banned her name, saying that it was a violation of terms of service. Microsoft went on to say that saying anything about your sexuality, whether it be “straight” “bi” or “gay”, is essentially a bannable offense, if deemed by the higher powers of the company.

The policy is, frankly, too zero tolerance. While I can understand Microsoft trying to avoid conflicts, because anonymity online leads to thousands saying things they normally wouldn’t say, I personally think this is just pushing off a rather important issue. People will always be, for a lack of a better word, dicks online. Hell, any game where I get called “gay” for winning is proof of that. When someone is actually gay, and he or she gets harassed doubly so because of identifying themselves as such, it should be expected that there would be some intolerant and close-minded idiots out there.

But is it right to do punish the victim over it? Microsoft is asking them this question, and has recently tried to apologize for this, claiming that their own banning policies are “inelegant” and is looking to revamp the system to make it friendlier for online interaction. One idea was to implement symbols that would denote your orientation, according to Stephen Toulouse, the program manager for policy and enforcement on X-Box live.

But if Microsoft really wants to change their policies, they may have to look inward first, and deal with their own issues. Recently, Microsoft is under fire once again, this time being sued by an employee of their subsidiary, Lionhead Studios. Lionhead, as you know, is the creator of games such as Black and White, the Fable series and The Movies. Microsoft purchased the English studio two years ago, and that is when the trouble began for Jamie Durrant, an 11-year vet of the company and a senior game designer. At his work studio in England, the human resources department has, since last January, been harassing Durrant due to his sexual orientation, sending defamatory emails and posting homophobic messages in his office.

Durrant, who became under stress from this, appealed to the HR department chair, which promised to send emails reminding the staff on how to behave in an office that is diverse. Sadly, the emails never went out, and when Durrant inquired why, he was told that the firm “would have to draw up new policies before an email could be sent.”

This is significant, because, Microsoft, back in 1989, was one of the first companies to already HAVE policies of non-discrimination in regards to sexual orientation.

Durrant “was allegedly asked to sign a document agreeing not to raise a formal grievance and confirming that he was happy his complaint was being dealt with. He said that he refused but it was agreed that Microsoft would post its anti-discrimination policy on the firm's intranet for staff to see.”

Durrant’s grievance is probably blown out of proportion, but it does make you scratch your head for a second. Why would a company blatantly lie to an employee who is being harassed? Of course, Microsoft is denying this ever happened, and the whole he said she said back and forth will likely follow, but it’s somewhat interesting to see Microsoft being called hypocritical, especially on the heels of a very unpopular policy action one month ago.

Maybe it’s just the timing of the two events being so close that makes this more important, but all the same, it’s fairly bad publicity for Microsoft. Perhaps if they would enact a stricter policy of tolerance, this might have blowed over. Maybe if Microsoft would just accept that there are tons of homosexuals playing Halo 3 as much as heterosexuals, then this will become a non-issue. Be that as it may, controlling a workforce is one thing, controlling the internet is another.

But as gamers, we need to recognize differences of others. I may be a bisexual, but so what? It doesn't make me less of a gamer. I can probably shred faster than you in Rock Band, just as much as you can snipe me in Halo. Sexuality never should be an issue when playing a game, or making one for that matter. Gamers are just as diverse as any other social group, and embracing that diversity, be it tolerance or acceptance, should be step one in solving these issues of discrimination. This is, perhaps, the true lesson that Microsoft needs to learn, not just for the sake of one employee, but for the sake of their clients, who just want to have a good time.

Links to the articles:

Xbox Designer Accuses Microsoft of Homophobia

Xbox Live Bans Lesbian Gamer, Microsoft Apologizes
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LinksOcarina

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Edited By LinksOcarina

 

As a gamer, you sometimes forget about the differences that people may have from each other. The stereotypes of gamer geeks and manchildren are somewhat eradicated now, because of am emerging casual market, and a lot of different groups of gamers are coming into the fold. Recently though, the LGBT gaming community has hit a speedbump, thanks to a ridiculous Microsoft policy.

Now as a bisexual, I have had a fair share of discrimination from people (New York is liberal, but not THAT liberal, at least where I live.) but on an online forum, where everyone is anonymous, I usually don’t put out my sexual preferences. Plus, I have a plethora of gay friends online, and we have done countless rounds of Soul Calibur, Left 4 Dead, and Rock Band together without incident. But since the whole scandal between Microsoft’s really somewhat intolerable policies on posting your sexuality over X-box live, it’s become somewhat sticky for the company to keep their public image.

What happened is a woman playing on live had her account banned because she had said she was a lesbian in her profile. The woman was harassed online for a while, until Microsoft banned her name, saying that it was a violation of terms of service. Microsoft went on to say that saying anything about your sexuality, whether it be “straight” “bi” or “gay”, is essentially a bannable offense, if deemed by the higher powers of the company.

The policy is, frankly, too zero tolerance. While I can understand Microsoft trying to avoid conflicts, because anonymity online leads to thousands saying things they normally wouldn’t say, I personally think this is just pushing off a rather important issue. People will always be, for a lack of a better word, dicks online. Hell, any game where I get called “gay” for winning is proof of that. When someone is actually gay, and he or she gets harassed doubly so because of identifying themselves as such, it should be expected that there would be some intolerant and close-minded idiots out there.

But is it right to do punish the victim over it? Microsoft is asking them this question, and has recently tried to apologize for this, claiming that their own banning policies are “inelegant” and is looking to revamp the system to make it friendlier for online interaction. One idea was to implement symbols that would denote your orientation, according to Stephen Toulouse, the program manager for policy and enforcement on X-Box live.

But if Microsoft really wants to change their policies, they may have to look inward first, and deal with their own issues. Recently, Microsoft is under fire once again, this time being sued by an employee of their subsidiary, Lionhead Studios. Lionhead, as you know, is the creator of games such as Black and White, the Fable series and The Movies. Microsoft purchased the English studio two years ago, and that is when the trouble began for Jamie Durrant, an 11-year vet of the company and a senior game designer. At his work studio in England, the human resources department has, since last January, been harassing Durrant due to his sexual orientation, sending defamatory emails and posting homophobic messages in his office.

Durrant, who became under stress from this, appealed to the HR department chair, which promised to send emails reminding the staff on how to behave in an office that is diverse. Sadly, the emails never went out, and when Durrant inquired why, he was told that the firm “would have to draw up new policies before an email could be sent.”

This is significant, because, Microsoft, back in 1989, was one of the first companies to already HAVE policies of non-discrimination in regards to sexual orientation.

Durrant “was allegedly asked to sign a document agreeing not to raise a formal grievance and confirming that he was happy his complaint was being dealt with. He said that he refused but it was agreed that Microsoft would post its anti-discrimination policy on the firm's intranet for staff to see.”

Durrant’s grievance is probably blown out of proportion, but it does make you scratch your head for a second. Why would a company blatantly lie to an employee who is being harassed? Of course, Microsoft is denying this ever happened, and the whole he said she said back and forth will likely follow, but it’s somewhat interesting to see Microsoft being called hypocritical, especially on the heels of a very unpopular policy action one month ago.

Maybe it’s just the timing of the two events being so close that makes this more important, but all the same, it’s fairly bad publicity for Microsoft. Perhaps if they would enact a stricter policy of tolerance, this might have blowed over. Maybe if Microsoft would just accept that there are tons of homosexuals playing Halo 3 as much as heterosexuals, then this will become a non-issue. Be that as it may, controlling a workforce is one thing, controlling the internet is another.

But as gamers, we need to recognize differences of others. I may be a bisexual, but so what? It doesn't make me less of a gamer. I can probably shred faster than you in Rock Band, just as much as you can snipe me in Halo. Sexuality never should be an issue when playing a game, or making one for that matter. Gamers are just as diverse as any other social group, and embracing that diversity, be it tolerance or acceptance, should be step one in solving these issues of discrimination. This is, perhaps, the true lesson that Microsoft needs to learn, not just for the sake of one employee, but for the sake of their clients, who just want to have a good time.

Links to the articles:

Xbox Designer Accuses Microsoft of Homophobia

Xbox Live Bans Lesbian Gamer, Microsoft Apologizes
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lemon360

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Edited By lemon360

Thats the way the cookie crumbles.
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WinterSnowblind

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Edited By WinterSnowblind

I actually agree with Microsoft here.  I'm all for gay rights, etc, but it's a gamer profile.  Posting information about your sexuality there was asking for trouble.
If you're filling in a job application for example, it doesn't need to ask if you're straight or gay, and I'm pretty sure nobody would add in a section that states if they are.
 
It reminds me of the whole "Only gay in the village" sketch from Little Britian.  She was just looking for attention.

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navyboy

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Edited By navyboy

I think Microsoft isn't being mean to the LGBT community here. They clearly just don't think that the status of your sexual orientation isn't needed to play games online, and the status in some cases could clearly cause collisions in the future. If they allowed for you to have the word "gay" in your gamertag, at least 90% of the use of the word would be people making fun of gays, which in turn the LGBT would want the word to be banned again.

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JackiJinx

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Edited By JackiJinx
@WinterSnowblind: Let me get this straight: When person gets harassed by multiple users, you believe the right course of action is to ban the abused party. 
 
Or just only if they're gay.
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WinterSnowblind

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Edited By WinterSnowblind
@JackiJinx said:

" @WinterSnowblind: Let me get this straight: When person gets harassed by multiple users, you believe the right course of action is to ban the abused party.  Or just only if they're gay. "

The person was violating the ULA, if it wasn't in her profile, she wouldn't have been getting the abuse.
I'm not saying the people who were doing it shouldn't have been punished, but MS can't control the things people say on Live.
 
She was doing it just to stir up controversy.
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Inquisitor

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Edited By Inquisitor

Dont ask dont tell, atleast with complete strangers; there's layers of intimacy and confidentiality, a certain etiquette and privacy i think everybody should equally respect. I've never understood the whole gay pride at all costs thing, personally i'm pretty open minded, but i dont flash a shirt with my sexual orientation stamped on it. Maybe i should =P
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LinksOcarina

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Edited By LinksOcarina
@Inquisitor said:

" Dont ask dont tell, atleast with complete strangers; there's layers of intimacy and confidentiality, a certain etiquette and distance i think everybody should equally respect. I've never understood the whole gay pride at all costs thing, personally i'm pretty open minded, but i dont flash a shirt with my sexual orientation stamped on it. Maybe i should =P "

 Your right in some respects, but a lot of people would argue that sexuality should be a non-issue all together, like ethnicity and gender. And that is the big point of contention with people in the LGBT community and in the gamer community. Granted not in all circles it is an issue, but it's significant in a larger picture. I admit that this girl might have been getting attention, but I also think that the situation could of been handled better.
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ErgoProxy77

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Edited By ErgoProxy77

I think you should be able to have the word gay in your gamertag.  Actually, I think we should be able to have any word, even fuck, shit, and cunt.  Words are words, and our society is full of too many pussies who want to bleep out words.  They are words, nothing to be afraid of.  You don't get offended by words, you get offended by the people who wrote or said them.  They are a means of expression and communication and they should not be censored.

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JellyFish_Gsus

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Edited By JellyFish_Gsus
@WinterSnowblind said:
" I actually agree with Microsoft here.  I'm all for gay rights, etc, but it's a gamer profile.  Posting information about your sexuality there was asking for trouble. If you're filling in a job application for example, it doesn't need to ask if you're straight or gay, and I'm pretty sure nobody would add in a section that states if they are.  It reminds me of the whole "Only gay in the village" sketch from Little Britian.  She was just looking for attention. "
I agree
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RichardLOlson

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Edited By RichardLOlson

Well I do agree for gay rights and I do agree with giving out information if you want to do it.
 
 Its like I'm playing my 360 when someone comes in the room and begins to shove pine cones up my ass as the call me "Tasty Cakes"
 
Point is....people will do what they want to do.

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Inquisitor

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@ErgoProxy77 said:

"I think you should be able to have the word gay in your gamertag.  Actually, I think we should be able to have any word, even fuck, shit, and cunt.  Words are words, and our society is full of too many pussies who want to bleep out words.  They are words, nothing to be afraid of.  You don't get offended by words, you get offended by the people who wrote or said them.  They are a means of expression and communication and they should not be censored. "


You get offended by the meaning the words make together. Weaving words in a responsible way requires maturity, and common sense... and just these two things are nigh to being superpowers nowadays. Hence Microsoft has to cover its back and set certain rules to make things go smoothly, atleast on their side. But i think we can all safely agree that sexual orientation should be a complete non-issue. Then again... common sense and maturity... Unfortunately there's no EULA in existance which is capable to enforce THAT ^^   
 
PS: Ergo Proxy was a piece of art
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Edited By oldschool

I am sad that this is even an issue.  I am even sadder that people still think it is okay to tell someone they should just effectively, stay in the closet.  Your sexuality is a non issue and if you want to say you are straight, bi or gay, then no-one has the right to deny you that - anywhere.  If I was to put that I was Jewish in my profile, and then some racists starting attacking me, then they are in the wrong, not me.  I would find it difficult to believe that Microsoft would ban someone for saying they are a jew - maybe they just aren't brave enough when the target is more politically powerful.  The same applies if I mentioned that I was black.
 
Stop defending poor behaviour from Microsoft and get over the fact that anyone has the right at any time to define themselves however they want.  Just because a company makes rules does not in any way make them right.  Man, it is like the 70s never finished sometimes.  It really saddens me.

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Inquisitor

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Edited By Inquisitor

I still stick to what i said about common sense and maturity, there's a difference between having to stay in the closet and being invasive about things that should stay private. Again i'm quite the libertine individual but i wont walk up to a random person and tell her what, lets say, my fetishes are, if i do that i have to expect a reprisal, and if it so happens i am the only one to blame. Please dont missunderstand me, but i dont think that social deficiency should be something encouraged or tutored by any kind of policy; this can be said for the case of the girl making statements about her sexual orientation in her XBL profile. About the fellow employed at Lionhead and being harassed, that behaviour has a name and its sexual harassement and/or mobbing, i dont exactly see what the deal is with having to create a whole new procedure just because he is gay. 
 
About it being 2009, i think that if we stop treating it like a special issue it will stop being one. But that may be highly subjective, and i apologize if i just offended somebody, but give it a thought; yes we are free to think and say pretty much everything we want, but is the latter also smart to do? not always. I'm sure there is a number of very intolerant and insensitive people coming right from the stone age out there, the best thing to do is not to get down to their level, and this applies to everything, not only when it comes to declaring ones sexuality.
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ryanwho

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Edited By ryanwho

For the record, I don't care about the sexual preference of anyone online. Why is it even an issue? I'm super proud of the guy who got laid last night despite being a gamer, but I don't need him working it not-so-subtly into every post he makes the next day. 
As for you, you should recognize New York for the bubble that it is. on the internet, you're talking to people all over the world, and many of them are about 8-13. So next time you take something someone says to heart, just remember they could potentially be in middle school. Do you argue with middle schoolers in real life? No, cus they're worthless.

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Suicrat

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Edited By Suicrat

 Now, those of you who know me know I'm all for property rights, and I'm all for the right of a property-holder to dispose of it how he chooses. But when it comes to banning an account for containing the word "Lesbian", there are some serious problems. Especially in the wake of all the profiles of people I see in NHL 09 with homophobic and racist messages in THEIR profiles. I understand Microsoft's desire to create a closed network, over which they can wield some measure of control, but if Microsoft lets a racist shithead tell the world Arabs are "SaNd N1gg3rs" (I'm not joking, I've seen people leet-speaking that racial slur) using their network, then an ordinary person has the right to tell the world that she prefers women over men.
 
As oldschool said, the fact this is even an issue is somewhat despicable.
@Inquisitor said:

" ...yes we are free to think and say pretty much everything we want, but is the latter also smart to do? not always. I'm sure there is a number of very intolerant and insensitive people coming right from the stone age out there, the best thing to do is not to get down to their level, and this applies to everything, not only when it comes to declaring ones sexuality. "

I think that a person declaring their love of Halo and Doritos ought not be any more or less controversial than someone declaring their love for a particular gender. The speaker is not being the irresponsible person when he or she expresses him or herself, the person who is intolerant and will harass or try to harm a person for doing so is. And stopping short or self-censoring because these "from the stone age" people will do something stupid is simply giving in to those people.
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LinksOcarina

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Edited By LinksOcarina
@ryanwho said:
" For the record, I don't care about the sexual preference of anyone online. Why is it even an issue? I'm super proud of the guy who got laid last night despite being a gamer, but I don't need him working it not-so-subtly into every post he makes the next day. As for you, you should recognize New York for the bubble that it is. on the internet, you're talking to people all over the world, and many of them are about 8-13. So next time you take something someone says to heart, just remember they could potentially be in middle school. Do you argue with middle schoolers in real life? No, cus they're worthless. "
 
I teach, so bringing issues like this up is always important because kids need to know about it, especially middle school children. So don't call them worthless. Plus like I said, New York is not exactly a "bubble" as you would think it would be. On the net there will always be a degree of stupidity, but the point is to have a discussion with those who won't act stupid over it. 
 
Which is the issue overall. Stupid people on both sides. But as I said, Microsoft could of handled this a LOT better, hence why I wrote the article. It doesn't matter if it's for one opinion or another. What matters is it's being discussed because stuff like this NEEDS to be discussed, especially in our own industry as it matures.
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JackiJinx

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Edited By JackiJinx
@WinterSnowblind said:
"She was doing it just to stir up controversy. "
I highly doubt that. Maybe she was putting in there so that guys would stop hitting on her, or so that other GLBT felt free to talk/befriend her, or maybe because she feels that it's something that really identifies her and that everyone should know. 
 
In any case, a ban is much too strict a punishment for inputting something like sexual orientation. Simply removing or asking for said information to be removed should've sufficed enough. If she refused or reinserted the information, then a ban would be pertinent. 
 
And Microsoft can certainly control things that happen on Live. That's partially what the ban hammer's for.
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WitchHunter_Z

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Edited By WitchHunter_Z

This should be a complete non-issue, and while I believe Microsoft should not have banned the user, I do understand their stance on the matter. However, people should be able to post anything they like about themselves in their profile, so long as they are prepared to accept the backlash that may occur because of it, and what Microsoft really needs is a clause to distance themselves from said infomation such as "No infomation contained within a users profile is affiliated with Microsoft, and users are fully responsible for the content within and any actions taken because of the content within."

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Linkyshinks

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Harsh punishment indeed.  However, I don't think one's sexuality should be proclaimed to all on Xbox Live, I don't think it has any place there. if you have friends and wish to elaborate on your sexual preferences, via chat or text, that's fine. Another member could just as easily say he's into group sex, or even a paedophilia or a Zoophilia, and face a similar wrath after creating ill ease with even the open minded,  it's all very well being proud of who you are, but to enter a community with members that ere well known to be of a certain nature, and then expect to be treated with due respect from all after such a disclosure...Your either dumb or looking to kick up fuss among the idiots and bigots. From what I understand she was equally nasty in retort.  
 
One rule should fit all, keep your preferences to yourself, unless they are your gaming preferences.

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natetodamax

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Edited By natetodamax
@ErgoProxy77 said:
" I think you should be able to have the word gay in your gamertag.  Actually, I think we should be able to have any word, even fuck, shit, and cunt.  Words are words, and our society is full of too many pussies who want to bleep out words.  They are words, nothing to be afraid of.  You don't get offended by words, you get offended by the people who wrote or said them.  They are a means of expression and communication and they should not be censored. "
I disagree with this. I don't normally get offended by such terms, but I really don't want to play with a bunch of 12 year old kids who's gamertags are BLOWJOBSUCKDICK1995 and FUCKMEHARDER13. That would just be annoying and would make me not want to play.
 
On the subject of Microsoft banning that lesbian girl, I don't think it was wrong. Your sexual orientation doesn't need to be in your profile, because nobody really cares about whether you like males or females and it isn't important. Plus, because of the world we live in today, it's entirely possible that Microsoft was protecting her from being harassed constantly, which was inevitable.
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WinterSnowblind

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Edited By WinterSnowblind
@JackiJinx said:
" @WinterSnowblind said:
"She was doing it just to stir up controversy. "
I highly doubt that. Maybe she was putting in there so that guys would stop hitting on her, or so that other GLBT felt free to talk/befriend her, or maybe because she feels that it's something that really identifies her and that everyone should know.   In any case, a ban is much too strict a punishment for inputting something like sexual orientation. Simply removing or asking for said information to be removed should've sufficed enough. If she refused or reinserted the information, then a ban would be pertinent.   And Microsoft can certainly control things that happen on Live. That's partially what the ban hammer's for. "
Microsoft don't record online conversations on Live, they have no way to prove what's been said.
Banning someone from a £40 a year subscription with no proof is asking for a lawsuit.
 
I do agree that they probably could have just told her to remove it, but again.  It's an online gaming community, it's not really the place for that kind of thing.
I don't judge people based on their sexuality, but at the same time I shouldn't need to know what a persons sexuality is.
 
Like so many of you keep trying to claim, it should be a non-issue, it shouldn't need to be proclaimed, especially on something like XBL where it was only ever going to stir up trouble.
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iam3green

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Edited By iam3green

lols that is pretty stupid of microsoft to do. i have a friend on steam who on the header says "sorry guys i'm lesbian XD" it is pretty good thing to say because i'm sure that she gets a lot of flirty nerds talking to her. people should be more diverse with sexuality.

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Suicrat

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Edited By Suicrat
@Linkyshinks said:
" Harsh punishment indeed.  However, I don't think one's sexuality should be proclaimed to all on Xbox Live, I don't think it has any place there. if you have friends and wish to elaborate on your sexual preferences, via chat or text, that's fine. Another member could just as easily say he's into group sex, or even a paedophilia or a Zoophilia, and face a similar wrath after creating ill ease with even the open minded,  it's all very well being proud of who you are, but to enter a community with members that ere well known to be of a certain nature, and then expect to be treated with due respect from all after such a disclosure...Your either dumb or looking to kick up fuss among the idiots and bigots. From what I understand she was equally nasty in retort.   One rule should fit all, keep your preferences to yourself, unless they are your gaming preferences. "
Seriously, this line of logic needs to be discredited once and for all. Homosexuality is not equivalent to bestiality or pedophelia, the very notion is ludicrous. Homosexuality involves informed, consenting adults enjoying each other's company. Pedophelia involves a party incapable of informed consent, the child. And equating to bestiality to homosexuality implies an equality between humans and animals that simply cannot be justified rationally.

As for "keeping your preferences to yourself", some people's gamertags and bios contain extremely racist and sexist messages, and they haven't had their accounts banned. And what about people who declare preferences in the realms of music, film, religion, or politics? There are countless accounts with information declaring the user's preferences in this regard, and those accounts haven't been banned. Nor should they be (if Microsoft says so), so why should a woman be denied access to a service she paid for on the grounds of declaring a preference that is more parallel to the examples I cited than those you cited.
 
Ultimately XBox Live is Microsoft's property, and they have the right to regulate messages transmitted through their network the way they choose. But paying users of that network have a right to demand that the terms of use get applied consistently.
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First of all, I totally agree that Microsoft is in the wrong for banning an account with one's sexuality in the profile. As a matter of fact, if not for the ridiculous clauses I'm sure are in their terms of service, they'd be sued to hell and back for discrimination over this, and justfully so. Especially since, rather than deal with the unwarranted hate and ban the ones attacking others, they choose to curb the problem by getting rid of the other side. If they were putting something openly obscene in their profile, or their gamertag, for that matter, then that is understandable.
 
However, I also have to question why one's sexuality belongs in your profile in the first place? You're playing video games, not, presumably, only trolling for a partner. Besides that, you *know* there are all sorts of underage children and under-matured adults out there who you know are going to attack you for it.
 
And anybody saying "OMG there falt 4 pooting n profyle doo 2 ULA!", seriously? You seriously can't see why this is absurd? But whatever... like I said, I take the middle ground, here. People should be allowed to do as they please regarding their profile, but I personally don't see why you need to flaunt your sexuality to others. If it ever comes up, then that's the time to tell them.

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LinksOcarina

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 I am surprised no one has mentioned Durrant's case yet, mainly because I found that one more disturbing personally over the girl, but thats me. Cause it's kind of disheartening to see a guy get harassed for something like that at work, although like I said, it seems like it was blown out of proportion.
 
I'm glad to see a lot of people commenting on this, because I am not sure if a lot of issues such as this are discussed in the video game world.  It is a touchy issue that can go either way, but I am glad for a lot of good comments for and against. So thanks for all the discussion guys, and keep them coming.

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Red

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The fact of the matter is that Xbox Live is a gaming service. Your sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with video games, so you posting it on your profile is basically just looking for attention. Xbox Live isn't a dating service.

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Claude

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Xbox Live and Facebook have now hooked up. Microsoft has a lot to learn. You want to play hard, you have to let everyone play hard. Look at Nintendo, saccharin sweet and that's how they like it.

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@iam3green said:
"lols that is pretty stupid of microsoft to do. i have a friend on steam who on the header says "sorry guys i'm lesbian XD" it is pretty good thing to say because i'm sure that she gets a lot of flirty nerds talking to her. people should be more diverse with sexuality. "

...And exactly how old is aformentioned girl? If you say 13, I swear to god...
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LinksOcarina

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@Red said:
" The fact of the matter is that Xbox Live is a gaming service. Your sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with video games, so you posting it on your profile is basically just looking for attention. Xbox Live isn't a dating service. "
I'm sorry, but how is Xbox live being used as a dating service? That seems more like an assumption of something rather than a fact, and it's a BIG stretch. No offense.
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Red

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@LinksOcarina: Why the crap does anyone you're playing a game with need to know if you're gay or straight?
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Suicrat

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@Red said:
" @LinksOcarina: Why the crap does anyone you're playing a game with need to know if you're gay or straight? "
Why do they need to know you like cats, or the colour red, or your favourite band, or your favourite movie? People are free to express their preferences, anything less is arbitrary.
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Jerr

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I think its between the non-hetero community to decide, as a straight person I dont feel I can judge the significance of the events

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Red

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@Suicrat: Those are all just random things. Straight up saying that you're gay for your bio is like saying you're black and nothing else. Things like that aren't really anything anyone needs to know to actually know you as a person online.
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Suicrat

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  @Red said:

" @Suicrat: Those are all just random things. Straight up saying that you're gay for your bio is like saying you're black and nothing else. Things like that aren't really anything anyone needs to know to actually know you as a person online. "

Bullshit. A person can put their sexual preferences in their profile, as well as any other preferences they choose. To try and distinguish sexual preference from other sorts of preferences in this context is ludicrous.

And there are many people on XBox Live whose profiles only contain their ethnicity, or their religion and nothing else, should Microsoft take their privileges away? No.

In fact, there are profiles that contain a declaration of the user's enjoyment of criminal activity (and I'm not just talking about narcotics consumption), and their accounts are not banned. Homosexuality on the other hand is legal, so why should a person be banned for declaring their lesbianism while a person who talks about sexual assault is left alone? The only argument remaining is that of "Refer to Microsoft's Terms of Use", which holds no water at this point for the aforementioned reasons.
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WinterSnowblind

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@sidescroller said:
" @WinterSnowblind said:
" @JackiJinx said:

" @WinterSnowblind: Let me get this straight: When person gets harassed by multiple users, you believe the right course of action is to ban the abused party.  Or just only if they're gay. "

The person was violating the ULA, if it wasn't in her profile, she wouldn't have been getting the abuse. I'm not saying the people who were doing it shouldn't have been punished, but MS can't control the things people say on Live.  She was doing it just to stir up controversy. "
What?  I'm sorry, but that is one of the most ignorant things I have ever seen written.   Are you also implying that a black person should not make a black avatar for fear of getting harassed?  You think she just SAID she was a lesbian because she wanted to be controversial?!   I know plenty of people who talk about their girlfriends on their Xbox profiles, so by that logic all those people should be banned?  This entire situation is ridiculous. "
Sorry, but being black isn't the same.  All you've done here is try to change the arguement to something about race, in some feeble attempt to make us appear racist, which has absolutely nothing to do with this.
 
I have no problem with her being a lesbian, I have plenty of gay friends I talk to frequently.  Most of them I know don't feel the need to flaunt it in people's faces at every given oppertunity, and certainly don't put it in their gamer profile.  Again, Xbox Live isn't a dating service and including information like that is wildly inappropriate, just as it would be if I put "lesbian" in my profile in Pokemon.
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trulyalive

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Goddammit, guys. Your open-mindedness is why your argument holds no ground, you're too used to the concept of sex. Think for a moment though, is sex (with either a guy, or a girl) something you do in public or in private? If you're black, or asian, it's not exactly something you can hide but sex is absolutely still a taboo. It's something that society has more or less dictated is to be done behind closed doors. I don't know about you guys, but if I went to get a coffee and there was some girl gobbing off about her lay last night, I'd be thinking about how she should grow the fuck up and keep things to herself. Doesn't matter if she's lesbian, straight or bi, the very subject matter isn't something considered appropriate.
When it comes to Xbox Live, the population is made up of a diverse number of people, but there are kids who may not be all to aware of the whole issue and then there are grown ups who are either dicks and will discriminate, or like myself, simply don't care and don't want to hear about your sexual preferences. Seriously. Don't give a fuck. Unless you're my friend, I have no concern as to your 'coming out'.
 
Regarding the fellow from Lionshead, that is a pretty terrible story. Nobody should suffer that sort of harrasment.

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JackiJinx

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@sidescroller: Thank you. 
 
@Bo17:   That's not the same thing. Bragging about getting laid is not the same thing as declaring your sexual orientation. Doesn't mean she gets fucked all the time. Lesbian nor gay are dirty words, and children will be exposed to the terms sooner or later. There are children's books about homosexuality. Children are just as much around homosexual terms as curses. 
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Otacon

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Sure I don't get why this woman needed to put her sexuality on her profile, the only reason I can see is to get attention. It should not have been a bannable offense though.

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Suicrat

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  @Bo17: It's not you who gets to decide whether declaring your sexuality is valid or not, it's Microsoft. And the addition of the word 'lesbian' is among the least objectionable things a person can find in a user's profile on XBox Live. XBox Live has specific Gay and Lesbian television content. It does not have specific content for rapists. But those who claim to have committed such acts include this information in their profiles and they are not banned.
 
This woman wasn't posting pictures of her spread labia, she was telling people one of her preferences. There is nothing sexually explicit in the word "Lesbian". It's your argument that holds no water.

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It's not like Durrant ever filed a secual harassment suit, which is what I would have immediately done if it was me and nothing was being done about it. If he refused to sign the papers, why did he not take it one step further and actually do something about it?
 
But then, I agree that it would be good for Microsoft to step in and stand up for him more openly. It would go a long way toward preventing that kind of behavior in the future, and yes, no one should have to go through that. Again, though, in both cases, neither party has handled the situation as well as they should. Although, since none of the links in the OP are working, all I have to go on is what is posted in the thread. There's probably parts to this that I'm missing, so I admit that you should take my judgment with a grain of salt.

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LinksOcarina

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The guy did file a lawsuit. I put a link at the end of the article I wrote about it. I guess they don't work.
 
Anyway, long story short, Durrant is suing Microsoft for being homophobic. Now it sounds silly like that, but you get the point, basically. He is not just going away on this.
 
Now if something comes out of this suit remains to be seen.

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trulyalive

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@JackiJinx: Ok, I admit, admitting your sexual preference is different from bragging about getting laid but I still wouldn't want to hear about it in this sort of setting because of the obvious connotations of sex. I'm not against sex, but it all comes down to there being a time and a place for it. And as an aside, for anyone who wants to argue that being a lesbian has nothing to do with sex, of course it does. It's not a matter of gays or lesbians hating the opposite sex (well, most of the time it isn't) but a *sexual* preference.
 
@Suicrat: I understand that it's not up to me what is or isn't valid. I also understand that I'm entitled to an opinion. And finally, I understand that I may have been a little heavy-handed with the presentation of my argument...sorry, seems to run in the family >_<;
Anyway, I will admit although I don't agree with her showcasing that information, instantbanning her was kinda harsh. A simple request for her to change it would probably have sufficed. And although I made no mention of the rape issue, it still came up, so yeah, it's fucked up and that stuff should be taken more seriously than users stating their sexual orientation. But unless you complain about the case to Microsoft, nothing'll change. I'll make a deal with you: If you shoot them an email, I will too. We might be able to get a few others in on this and who knows? Then they'll have to say no to a bunch of us! I kid, I kid (seriously, I'm considering making mention of this to them now...)
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Suicrat

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@Bo17: I already report accounts that advocate or justify criminal activity using the system XBox Live has built in, so problem solved on that front ;)
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@Bo17 said:

" @JackiJinx: Ok, I admit, admitting your sexual preference is different from bragging about getting laid but I still wouldn't want to hear about it in this sort of setting because of the obvious connotations of sex. I'm not against sex, but it all comes down to there being a time and a place for it.

@Bo17 said:

" Goddammit, guys. Your open-mindedness is why your argument holds no ground, you're too used to the concept of sex. 

Hmmmmmm..... I'm starting to think you're way too used to the concept of sex.
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trulyalive

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@Metal_Gear_Sunny: I'm not nearly so liberal with my own sexual information as the people in question. (Note, this does not include Durant and as far as I'm aware from this thread, at no point did he advertise his sexuality, thus he's cool in my book)
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Companies have been forcing people to keep quiet about all kinds of embarrassing situations, so I'm not surprised.  I'd like to think we could get past stupid stuff like this.  I guess having an adult network that doesn't let minors on (at least as far as the parents can manage this) would be a great way to remove the corruption of kids from the equation, and the rest could be a place where you didn't have to worry about what you put on your profile, as long as it wasn't criminal or deliberately abusive.  
 
*goes back to sleep*

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You shouldn't explicity post your sexuality for no reason unless you're asked by somebody and you feel comfortable answering. It's not like I put "I'm strait!" in my profile in the hopes people treat me differentaly or that women will message me.
 
You hear alot that gay people say they want to be treated just like everyone else and that people shouldn't change the way they feel about them or act around them just because they're gay and then put in their profile there sexual preference. Why!? If a strait person doesn't then why do some bisexuals and gays need to? If you want to be treated like everyone else then be like everyone else and don't publicaly announce your sexuality when nobody's asking.

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oldschool

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@Scooper said:
" You shouldn't explicity post your sexuality for no reason unless you're asked by somebody and you feel comfortable answering. It's not like I put "I'm strait!" in my profile in the hopes people treat me differentaly or that women will message me.  You hear alot that gay people say they want to be treated just like everyone else and that people shouldn't change the way they feel about them or act around them just because they're gay and then put in their profile there sexual preference. Why!? If a strait person doesn't then why do some bisexuals and gays need to? If you want to be treated like everyone else then be like everyone else and don't publicaly announce your sexuality when nobody's asking. "
I am curious, if that is true, then surely any online service should be truly anonymous?  Your profile should not have sex, age, country - nothing.  In fact, you shouldn't have a name as that only leads to people identifying themselves by it.  Clearly everyone should be assigned a random numerical number (not 1, 2 et cetera, as we don't want to identify here was there early and who is new).  To finish it, there should be no avatars they also identify you in some way. 
 
Only when you are then truly anonymous and nondescript, then it is fair to everyone.