Mr_Scumbag

I have to disagree, Patrick. I think crowd funding's secret enemy is itself. It's a complete over saturation of people and "companies" with their hands out for money. So many that a good number of them don't have the ability, motivation or foresight to be able to complete a project. There are ones who will, or course, but there rarely any way to tell and it just leads to potential investors like me throwing their hands up in the air and praying for the whole idea to die.

That sucks, too. The idea or crowd funding is good, but like many things that start off good, people begin to pile on and after a while it becomes a mess.

That's how I see Kickstarter and Indiegogo now. Just a mess of aspirations and promises. Meanwhile, there are thousands of games out there that are complete and ready to buy and play. It's a pretty easy choice for me.

It's AWESOME being an Australian gamer. You pay MORE money, for LESS (cut) content, and you wait LONGER to play!

Like I said. Being an Aussie gamer is absolute TITS.

Totally just cancelled my preorder. It looked pretty crappy in the quick look (Really? No day/night cycle in an open world game? Just a depressingly drab city?) and I'd rather preorder X: Rebirth.

That Javascript is almost exactly what I'm after. The only change I would make is adding another row of buttons that add 10, 100, 100, etc to your current bet or clear it, allowing users to fine tune the amount. Is anyone able to modify the script to do that? I'm useless at programming...

I just spent more time that I'm proud of making a mockup of a possible iOS/Android app that could be used for betting, making it easy to sit back and watch the stream fullscreen on a TV or monitor and freeing up people from having to type bets in with a keyboard:

Full size: http://i.imgur.com/aNBWGHW.jpg

I'm thinking if anyone would like to see something like that become a reality they could tweet the pic (http://i.imgur.com/aNBWGHW.jpg) to the Saltybet guy (@SaltyBet [url]https://twitter.com/saltybet[/url]) and maybe post it around on other forums, Neogaf would be a good place to get it out, but I don't have an account.

If it gets enough support/retweets maybe they'll consider writing an app or commissioning one from a programmer or community member. It seems SaltyBet is doing well enough judging my the amount of gold Illuminati usernames that they'd be able to pull it off with enough support for the idea from the community.

I always found the defense that "It's in a bikini cause that's the setting of the game, DUH!" pretty lacking. Even if that were so, if they weren't trying to appeal to their "target demographic" sexually, then surely there are MUCH better options for a statue. Like: Remember all the special zombies? the Thug? Floater? Butcher? They would all be both more appropriate for a statue and much less offensive, and there's NO POSSIBLE WAY that the marketers didn't first think of those possibilities before settling on a decapitated set of breasts. As such, the bikini/setting defense comes of as extremely dishonest to me. It's grabbing at straws, and I think most of the people making the argument know that.

@AutoBarn said:

Shit Patrick, a spoiler alert on the Far Cry 3 quote would have been good. Thanks for ruining the ending for me.

I've finished the game, but yeah, not spoilering that is pretty uncool.

@Wakka: You say you know why people are offended, but your post implies that you think people are offended because they can't take a joke or are taking the "joke app" too seriously. That isn't why a good number of us are offended at all. Why is it that you think we are offended? Why are we hypersensitive? Because we are offended by something that you aren't? That seems like a very narrow-minded way of looking at the world, not to mention kind of arrogant. It implies that you think that your threshhold of offense is the correct one and anyone on either side of your demarcation is wrong. Maybe rather than all of us being babies who are easily offended, it could be you who is not fully considering the aspects of these issues and dismissing them out of hand because they are either too inconvenient or too difficult for you to honestly address. Either way when there are this many people getting this up in arms about so many things as often as they are lately and you handwave them away you end up looking both ignorant and arrogant. Society and culture change over time and this issues being brought up so much is a sign of that change. If you want to dig your heels in and stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that change it's your business but like it has been said so many times before, if you don't think there's reason to be offended, move on to the next story rather than announcing how thick your skin is to the the rest of us. It adds nothing to the discussion and no-one is impressed by how unfazed you are by real cultural issues. It's not a badge of honour, it's raising the flag of ignorance.

@Laivasse: I pretty much agree with you. The part about principled or responsible gamers/consumers is particularly depressing and would be funny if it wasn't such a problem. Even after all the leaks when the game shipped early, people went on and on about it looking like shit but that they would still buy it anyway because they might enjoy some of it. It's that kind of stuff that leads to more bad advertising or bad products. Marketers and producers respond almost exclusively to the bottom line. How much money they pull in. If people don't have the self control to vote with their dollar, they just re-enforce bad practice. It's not always easy, but it's the best way to make change. If you don't approve of something withdraw your dollar completely.

@Wakka: You don't understand why people are offended.

@rick_deckard said:

@Mr_Scumbag: For me it is. I think people just get offended to easily. Just take a look at the whole trailer debacle a while back.

That's fine. I can't tell you're wrong to not be offended. It the rest of the statement that I, and many others take issue with. It's the part where you and others infer that because they aren't offended, those who are must be either easily offended or looking to be offended. (Allow me to stress the rest from here on in is not directed to you specifically) Of course there are always people who are either easily offended or itching to to take offense to something, but the statement is both arrogant and dismissive or can at least be interpreted that way.

I think the fundamental difference between those who are and are not offended is the way they look at the issues. Those who aren't offended may be looking at it in a personal sense. Those who are, I think, are typically looking at the issue in a much broader sense. The effects it has on society, how gaming is perceived at large, and to how people may be affected on a personal level.

It's when those differences are ignored that the discussion takes a turn for the worse. I can't speak for everyone, but this is why I am offended:

Because for a company to come out with things like this, it normalizes the sentiments and behaviors portrayed in the marketing material. Maybe people already think it's acceptable, but to those who are neutral, it gives a sense of acceptability if it is condoned and even spread by a big, well-known company. To anyone who uses the defense "Well, it's about a game where you have to murder people, and you're getting offended NOW?" There is a large difference. That being that the game world and its objectives exist in its own form, in its own little bubble of the game world itself. Bringing it out into the public and allowing them to (on a purely social level) call each other out for having "small tits" or "red hair" takes it from being a game into something far different, and thus open to different criticisms. As an aside, I also take extreme issue to people saying along the lines of: "There are so many other things to be offended about but you choose this?" As if people are only allowed to focus on one thing at a time. This is either grossly disingenuous at the least or unbelievably small-minded and jouvenile at worst. It's dismissal, and it helps no-one.

Secondly, I have a sister who has been the target of internet bullying and I am personally aware of multiple teenagers who have actually killed themselves over harassment. No, the app didn't explicitly PROMOTE internet bullying but it enables it and provides a pretty good way of going about it. It's irresponsible. At some point you just have to ask yourself, "Was there a better way to promote the game than this?" If your answer is no, then you need to do some self-reflection.

Thirdly, I've been a gamer most of my life and like most gamers I've suffered negative stigma (many have looked at me as immature simply because I play video games) and the general attitude that games aren't to be taken seriously as a form of entertainment or story telling. It's frustrating because I know this is not the case. It doesn't help at all when there seems to be a disproportionately high amount of generally bad practices and behaviour on all levels of gaming. It's things like this app and nuns in latet which do nothing but affirm people's beliefs that gaming is a juvenile pastime for the emotionally immature. It hurts gaming and prevents it from growing up. It holds it back, and it's up to people to voice concern when we see these things rearing their ugly heads time and time again. It's how progression is made and it's seen throughout every medium throughout history.

In conclusion, it's fine to not be personally offended by anything but handwaving the whole issue by saying that those who are are oversensitive is to ignore the entire issue (in an unbelievably arrogant and condescending way) as if it doesn't really exist when there is clearly a problem. There are surely examples of these problems all over society and in the past a lot of this stuff has been normal, but times change and so do attitudes - usually for the better. If you love games, gaming culture and want to see it thrive and evolve you owe it to yourself and other gamers and to civilised society to say enough is enough when these things crop up.