Because it was good until you got to Mexico.

No. I really like Red Dead Redemption, the prospect of playing a sequel is half the reason I bought a PS4, but you are being hyperbolic when you call it the "greatest of all time". While it probably makes my top 5, the top spot would have to go to Tetris or, Dark Souls or, Kerbal Space Program.

Of the last generation its definitely in my top 3. It's a great game. I found Mexico to be a bit meh in terms of story and characters but the rest of it was really good. Some of the challenges were really difficult and interesting to do. They could've made the skinning animation skip-able though. One of the greatest endings in video games imo.

Opinions!

Because Breath of the Wild came out on the 3rd.

Red Dead is pretty much universally loved. Though not at this site, cause some take Jeff's opinions as they're own. Most people however, love it. If it's the best evurrr? Don't know. But it sure is among them I think.

Edit: Also, don't know how Rockstar pulled off those graphics on a fucking 360 with that frame rate. I think the game would be considered good looking even if it came out today. Some voodoo shit right there.

I think it's pretty funny that the OP derided somebody older classics as "kiddie games", which to me implies that RDR is some deep, wonderful piece of storytelling. It's not. It's good video game writing, with a terrific ending, but the main.l character's actions are consistently bonkers and unbelievable. It's the sort of story that kids would be super impressed by.

In any case, it's fine that you like it. There will just never be anything close to a consensus greatest of all time. Video games are far too broad.

I mean I adore RDR, maybe more than Chrono Trigger but CT might be one of the most masterfully made games of all time. Maybe it's only flaw is that one of the side quests is a little obtuse. Besides that it's one of the most fun, inspired, charming, well-produced games I've ever come across (besides maybe the most crisp puzzle games out there like Tetris.) I mean yeah it has the same art style as Dragon Ball but is about a thousand times better than anything else Akira Toriyama has ever touched and then some.

But yeah RDR is a special game, by far the most fun and interesting thing Rockstar has ever done. It definitely has some rough edges that could use some kind of remaster/directors cut, but hopefully the right sequel makes that more than irrelevant.

Also replayed most of it last year, while Mexico was a bit much it's actually the shortest part of the game and New Austin totally had filler missions too. Didn't need to do horse races like 4 times or whatever it was. Yea yea pc version skinning animation blah blah.

Greatest game of the Generation? Sure.

Greatest game of all time? Morrowind.

Because people have different opinions.

Specific to RDR though, it's totally a great game but it doesn't even register in my mind if I were to think of my favourite games. It may ery well be the best game set as a Western out right now, but beyond the unique setting it basically does nothing innovative, nor are the systems in the game refined to an extent that put it far above any other game. Except maybe the horseback riding, because those horses felt pretty good. It boggles me how anybody could think that this game has good shooting. The shooting is totally fine and the auto-aim does a good job in making John Marsden seem like a badass but to call it wonderful is nuts, even by the comparatively lower standards of 3rd person shooters.

The story has some good writing, but as a whole it totally falls apart for me because of how completely inane and unrelated the various branches of the main quest are. I'm willing to allow for all the side quests being there as just game things, but when your main questline repeatedly makes your protagonist go against his supposed new moral code of minimizing bloodshed, making him willing to even burn down a town, all in the pursuit of a possible lead to his eventual target, it kind of breaks the character. The moment to moment writing in the quests themselves are good video game writing, but nothing that seems to give it the 'epic' feel that you're attributing to the game. This isn't even mentioning the fact that the middle act of the game, which is the worst offender for the narrative dissonance just mentioned, is also a total drag in terms of pacing.

Again, none of this makes it a bad game. As a package it's great, but personally nowhere near the best. And really, superlative judgments on subjective topics are useless.

I dont agree on any of your bulletpoints but yeh its a really great game.

great game, but starts too slowly and Mexico derails the storyline.

Beat it when it came out and tried to come back to it maybe a half-dozen times but can't get past the opening 6ish hours

Great game, with big flaws.

It's been mentioned before but the entire Mexico section completely slows the story down to a near halt. The only part of worth I remember from Mexico is when you first ride in with 'Far Away' playing in the background. The ending is also very predictable, but I suppose that is kind of the point with the 'End of the Old West' theme.

Because it is the most overrated game of all time and a terrible game in a vacuum too. It's not consensus because you cannot force people to share your opinion.

Here is why I don't like it:

- Best protagonist? He is annoying and I hated playing as that doofus. He is poorly written and his actions and reactions make no sense to what went on around him. I felt no connection to him whatsoever.

- Epic storyline? I have never finished the game, one of the reasons is because the story is slower than my grandmother who is dead. Nothing of interest happens.

- Most realistic open world? Why? Because it is empty and boring? It truly is completely forgettable.

- Great writing, dialogue and characters overall? Yeah, I don't think so. It is so obvious that this game had multiple writers and that they never met to get on the same page. The dialogue is awful. Main character can't keep his mouth shut, yet every NPC responds to him saying 'you don't talk much do you' in a non-sarcastic way. The writing and dialogue makes no sense whatsoever and is completely detached from what actually happens in the game.

- Beautiful graphics (on 360 at least)? Not even a little bit. GTAV looks better, Mass Effect 3 looks better, Gears of War 3 looks better, heck any remotely high profile game looks better.

- Wonderful shooting and horse mechanics, what else do you need in a western?Functional shooting and horse mechanics maybe? Seriously, that horse doesn't do what you tell it to do and is very inconsistent with following your commands. The shooting feels awful, if Destiny is on the best side of the spectrum, Redemption certainly is on the other side. Everything about it feels bad. Sluggish, non-responsive, artificial delays that aren't consistent, poor drag-aiming, everything.

- One of the best, if not the best ending of a video game? Yeah, because it's finally over. I haven't seen the ending and have no interest in it. Everything and I mean everything about Redemption I hated. I don't need to know how it ends. I simply don't care.

You like it, that's great. Many other people also like it. Isn't that enough? Why do you need a consensus on this? It's never going to happen.

How is this thread still going? It's obvious that @socurtoxanarosa is not interested in having a discussion but is instead looking for validation of his own opinion regarding RDR in a place where he is unlikely to get any. Also, discussions about opinions are pointless. RDR might be your GOAT but other people prefer other games for entirely different yet perfectly valid reasons.
/thread

Red Dead's story definitely suffers from Rockstar Bloat Syndrome- 50% of the missions are eh and just drag the cohesion of the narrative down. But then, I think GTA III/Vice City are the only open world games of theirs that don't have this problem.

Why do you need consensus?

Because people have opinions?

I found RDR OK, not great. I actually hated John Marston, he is kind of a dick, abusing his uncle and kind of generally is just unlikable. Also the story isn't really that great to me, its quite basic. Worst of all I think the pacing in the game is all over the place. I was glad when the credits finally rolled, because the game just drags itself out so much at parts.

RDR is one of my all time favorite games, but you're dismissive "critical" attitude is hurting you're cause, and does not make me want to support you in the effort of praising one of the best games of all time.

@socurtoxanarosa: Oh man you've opened a can of worms. I can't wait to see the influx of the following, ad nauseam: Its wasn't on PC so it doesn't qualify, it was terribly made and didn't play well/mechanics were bad, it runs like crap on consoles, the story was boring and forgettable, etc. (All false btw)

Its the internet, so the same people who loved the game when it came out like to retroactively hate the game as if they never liked it to begin with. It happens with EVERY 'high profile' game that has ever come out. Just wait 5-6 months and people will no longer like Breath of the Wild. Yadda yadda blah blah.

While I don't think its the GOAT, it is definitely one of the TOP 5 greatest games I've ever played, personally.

The playing the game part isn't all that fun. The story was fantastic but I was not having fun anytime I had to ride a horse, and it being a western there was a fair bit of that.

@atastyslurpee: Did you just list a bunch of opinions and then end your sentence with 'all false btw'? A smart man once told me people are smarter than you judge them to be, so I take it if you look at that sentence I'm sure you didn't mean it like that.

I get where you are coming from with internet opinions swaying from left to right over the course of not so much time. But I don't think that necessarily reflects on individual people. I hated Redemption when it came out and I hate it still. I loved BioShock Infinite when it came out and I love it still, even though a lot of people turned on that game. I don't think you can brush people's opinions off as broadly as you appear to be doing.

Every discussion is destined to be great when the original poster presents their opinions as facts and disregards or ridicules everything that is not in line with those opinions.

@clagnaught: YEA P4G!!!!

Rockstar games often overstay their welcome Red Dead is no different, tired well before finishing and didn't much like the ending. Red Dead is well written with interesting characters thoughout but gameplay is nothing special a typical bog standard TPS good game overall no goat.

edit: spelling lol

Your list is missing Liar's Dice which is the one amazing thing about that game. Everything else I found to be just...average? I know this isn't a common opinion, but once I was out of middle school, R*'s over-the-top profane humor lost its appeal to me. I never found there to be much more in their games beyond dumb, satirical profanity.

Except that crazy racing mode in GTA V. That shit is dope.

The riding was GOAT, the rest?
I understand how someone can love that game but I think it's more because it's pretty much the only good western game out there. The only other one I can think of was that old game Desperados.

Bad writing, terrible pacing (Mexiko...), booooooring towns with repetetive events. It's not on my top 100 list.

This seems like "my first thread" created by a 13 year old.

Because (IMO, of course) unlikable characters, bad pacing, and stiff gameplay.

Also, I really hate the pattern that Rockstar used, especially around that time, of, "Man, I want to get out of this life, so I'm going to do a bunch of horrible things that only perpetuate me being in this life, so that I will magically get out of this life". Super dumb.

In a world where Super Mario World, Resident Evil 4, and Persona 4 exist Red Dead is no longer the Greatest of All Time. I could definitely see an argument for a top 10 spot, hell it probably is in my top 10. But it's not #1 c'mon son.

@quarters Agreed. I have to say, I never knew this many people on these boards weren't as down on Redemption as the rest of the world seems to be. Good to know I'm not alone, always thought I was.

Ouch.

@brendan: Hey, giantbomb is a friendly site.

RDR was a perfectly fine game, but it isn't even the best Rockstar game (that'd be San Andreas for me; I haven't played Bully). The game had a really nice mood/atmosphere to it, but everything else was just competent at best.

And when it comes to story-driven, open-world games with a pre-set main character, The Witcher 3 is better than RDR in every way (and I'm hardly a TW3 fanboy; I'm one of the rare folks that likes Dragon Age Inquisition more than it).

@mozzle said:

Saw nothing wrong with Marston's actions, he did what he needed to do in the context he was. No problem liking Mass Effect 2, i like too, just don't think it's a really great video game.

you'd have to promote de 2nd GOAT game to 1st.

It doesn't, just felt like talking about it.

What similar game plays better? Doesn't need to be a western obviously, other than Max Payne and GTA V because they are from the same company so you would expect an improvement.

Pacing issues aside, Mexico was very interesting.

It's no hyperbole at all, the only hyperbolic part was the "consensus", which was intentional. And putting Tetris in any best games list is bullshit.

They really could, but it was no big deal imo. Ending is up there with TLoU imo, but is a much better game overall.

Let the dust settle, alright?

A PC version would really be glorious.

Men, stop being so serious, the consensus part is a joke. RDR for sure is some deep, wonderful piece of storytelling compared to 16 bit games, it's not a big deal, the industry evolved a lot. If you bother to appoint some of the unbelievable actions in the context of the game it would be more interesting.

I'll disagree with you about Chrono Trigger here, didn't really enjoy my time with it, played in 2011 tho. Thought it was a polished game, but a silly one, in the vein of other Toriyama's works, probably would've like if i'd played as a kid. And yeah, RDR has flaws too, no game is perfect.

No it's not? Roman was awful.

Nah, Morrowind is only better then it awful sequels, Bethesda doesn't have the talent to create anything to enter in this discussion.

Well, like any form of art, it's highly subjective to call anything "epic"(not in the scale sense), but most that liked the game would agree with this term, but it's really a question of perception, it's not mathematic. And while Marston had a new bloodshed, he was not a saint all of sudden and had and objetive, and he needed to do what was necessary to achieve it, felt coherent for me.

Has flaws but i don't think they were big, principally if you consider the scope of the game, it's almost impossible to stay 100% consistent all the way. And the highs were the some of the best of this entire media.

Yeah, the beginning is the worst part.

Enjoy some banter mate, you're a bit too serious. And your opinion has lower value if you didn't finish the game, regardless if you like it or not.

@socurtoxanarosa: You are more than entitled to your opinion, but (and I could be wrong here) from the way you're reacting it just seems like you're having trouble accepting/believing people don't have to share your opinion of it. That seems to be the story of this thread.

I'm telling you right now, gather every single third person shooter ever made three years prior to Redemption coming out all the way up to now, gather them in a room. Throw a rock in that room. Whatever it hits, plays better than Redemption. That's what I think. My opinion there isn't wrong, neither is yours. Neither is anyone else's. Lots of people agree with you that it's the one of the best games ever made, fewer agree with me that it is a pile of garbage. I will never understand why people like it so much to be fair, so I get where you are coming from trying to gauge what's up. But it is what it is.

A discussion/argument to get a consensus on hyperbole will always be effective.

The tone of this thread reminds me of a gamespot system wars post.

I meant 'all False btw in my opinion'(should've edited it).

My statement was more in line as a poor(admittedly) tongue-in-cheek joke that everyone speaks as though their opinions are actually fact. Were all guilty of it. But having not read any of this thread before responding and then going back...every one of my predictions in fact were used as a claim as to why it was 'bad'

This forum is an odd bird for sure and I see it A LOT of people praising a game, then months down the road acting as if it was the worst game ever. Not everyone is that way, but its pretty prevalent. As one person stated earlier, Because Jeff didn't/doesn't like it, they take that as gospel.

The same reason there's no consensus about the greatest movie ever made or the greatest album ever made. I did enjoy Red Dead, but I didn't think it was this near-perfect masterpiece and the crown achievement of gaming. Had a lot of problems with it, and by the end I was just ready for it to be over. I do like western settings, but something about Red Dead's characters and presentation just rubbed me the wrong way. And the constant button tapping while riding your horse was enough to drive me nuts.

@atastyslurpee: You shouldn't have to edit anything. I just missed your intentions when writing what you wrote. My fault, your fault, nobody's fault, I don't know. It's clear now though.

I'm not a believer of having to label everything you say with 'in my opinion'.

@socurtoxanarosa: Just a question dude, is this entire thread meant to be a joke or just parts of it? I'm having trouble gauging you.

I didn't claim Dragon Age Inquisition is the GOAT, its not. I do like it more than The Witcher 3 though, which is also not GOAT. And The Witcher 3 is better than Red Dead Redemption, which is definitely not GOAT.

Other open-world games better than Red Dead Redemption include: Morrowind, Fallout: New Vegas, Saints Row II, Saints Row the Third, and Saints Row IV.

I don't know why Dan and Brad hate the game so much. Its a little weird, if you ask me

@inresurrection said:

Pretty sure Mulholland Dr. and Ride The Lightning are respectively the GOAT movie and album. Now people will come asking for my arrest for once again trying to validate my opinion lmao

We don't have to be so apologist, it's just a thread in a video game forum, for god's sake.

Serious talk: this thread is about something i believe, with some intentional hyperbole to cause some banter, take it as a light hearted discussion, no reason to get mad like some people here, if you don't like RDR and think it's trash, fine, i'll just answer back because i made the thread to begin with. Cheers.

meh some people just don't like Westerns.

Why Red Dead Redemption being the greatest of all time isn't a consensus yet?

Because of it's awkward pace that comes to an abrupt halt in the middle section of the game and The terrible herding missions. Man, I do not like those herding missions at all and there are so many of them. The game's way to long skinning animations. The unskippable animations wouldn't be a problem if you only had to see them a few times but you get to see that skinning animation a lot.

I love Sergio Leone westerns so on paper Red Dead should be my favorite game of all time. But it's not even close. It's not a bad game but there are so many little things that slightly irritate me about the game and they all add up to something I just can't ignore. I think the game can be a straight up chore to play at times. It becomes the exact opposite of what games should be: fun or atleast engaging.

I will never get the intense love for Red Dead. Even for someone that luuuuuuuve western movies. I would be more interested in seeing a new Bully game.

But hopefully Rockstar can fix the bad things from Red Dead with the sequel.

I really like RDR and even I think the OP is coming off like a dick, so just for that, fuck RDR. Persona 4 Golden 4 lyfe.

The reverence people have for this game never ceases to amaze me. Is it good? Absolutely? Is it great? Sure! Is it fantastic? Well.... It's got some real pacing problems, the combat is fairly simplistic, there's not exactly a ton of variation. The writing is great ,but the story itself is fairly cliched.

But hey, to each their own.