Bombin' the A.M. With Scoops and the Wolf! 09/06/2013

Bark in the AM featuring Dick Wolfe.

I want this option in HM2:

I love this show so much.

Awooooooooooooo!

woof?

I didn't know there was a second apology from Krahulik, so I went and read it.

It's... not an apology, it's a clarification, and it makes a whole lot more sense than flip-flopping on it again. Actually, re-watching the original video, I get that he really meant that all along. They do talk about how pulling the merchandise made things worse, not that the merchandise itself was a good idea, and he's right, both him and Khoo immediately dismiss the heckler asking for the merch to be put back up.

I also agree with him that the original joke was not the issue, it was every reaction they had after that point. I don't think what he said in the panel contradicts that.

I don't condone rape apologists and I do think there is a serious gender issue in gaming, but I think in this one case, it may be unfair to make this big a stink from what Krahulik said. I don't think he was retracting on his original apology, and he does sound sincere about regretting his responses to the original issue. I think his past actions may have distorted this one occurrence. That's... well, still his fault, he created this persona in the first place, but it's definitely not worth boycotting PAX for it.

Maybe I am giving him the benefit of the doubt too much, but I saw the panel statement a little differently. What I saw was Robert asked him what mistakes Robert has made, and his response was pulling the merch. What I understood as he meant by that was pulling the merch provoked people to attack feminists in their name (by which I mean PA). So the response as a criticism of Khoo was you caused some more harm by doing that. I don't agree, but that is a lot less vengeful view than people think. Secondly people are like he should have silenced the cheer and well we weren't on stage and we have hindsight bias even Mike looks uncomfortable on stage to me. Again maybe I am more forgiving and I hope nobody thinks I have ill intent toward victims of any kind of tragedy by this post, I just had a different perspective.

I've never been the biggest fan of "Patrick content" on giantbomb (he does great work i just prefer other GB members no big deal), however I absolutely love this show.

I would love to watch these videos on the site, but that video player is just awful. So, thanks for uploading them to youtube.

I mercilessly ripped the guy who took Peyton 3rd overall in our draft... I now know what it feels like to be an 80's movie villain. Seriously great show guys, keep it up!

@shwan said:

I have no idea why Alex and Patrick work so well as a duo, but they really do. It helps that whatever wizardry Google does with Hangouts' auto-editing and streaming makes it seem like they're both sitting in the same room. If you just hear this you'd never think they're videoconferencing.

No joke, this is quickly becoming the second best feature on the site after the Bombcast for me. It airs reliably, has a reasonable length, it's full of interesting content and it's really well paced (Patrick's solo stuff, Just like Jeff's and any everybody else's tends to drag a bit).

Grave of the Fireflies is pretty amazing/heartbreaking.

Totally. Alex really is the best pairing for Pat.

The best Studio Ghibli film is Grave of the Fireflies.

Ironic because it's not a Miayazaki film but Takahata is a goddamn genius as well.

May you live for many more years in great health, Mr. Miyazaki.

Also @patrickklepek Microsoft seems to have given up on Europe before they even release the consoles. Most countries will only see the Xbox One months after the PS4 and it will still be €100 more expensive.

@coafi said:

Do people really have this many problems with it? All I do is press click and it plays at home, at work, and in different browsers.

It's been said, but it continues to be true-- the best way to create change in a free-speech type of situation is to demonstrate a positive example of whatever it is you're advocating, not to attack people who disagree.

To be the bigger person, basically.

Boycotting PAX in a public finger-wagging Twitter gang war does little but agitate the people who enjoy and run the show to be more irritable and defiant, because now they don't feel like they're wrong on the issues so much as they feel under attack by the "PC brigade." It might feel good to argue and condemn, but it doesn't help.

And ultimately, should we even feel that differences of opinion within a community are something to be attacked and purged, out of hand? It seems short-sighted.

I think Twitter's social issues strike force contingent would be well served to have some perspective about how "damaging" Penny Arcade selling a dumb t-shirt could ever actually be to the enlightened professorial secular humanist worldview the entire video game industry is apparently expected to intrinsically possess, suddenly.

These things take time.

I would like to try to provide an attempt at a reasonable counterargument to this whole Dickwolves thing, since most are in the anti-Mike camp. First and foremost though, I think it was rather moronic for the man to mention it in any capacity at that panel. No one would be talking about it again if he didn't say something. In fact, I agree that he should have never mentioned it again after that first comic.

I would like to address two points constantly made about this subject. The first is "actions speak louder than words." I agree. The thing is that negative actions in a public sphere seem to constantly outweigh any positive actions. During these discussions, everyone focuses on a narrow set of things, specifically the "dickwolves" and the transphobic incident. Yet, Mike and Jerry have done a lot of good beyond those two things. Basically, Penny Arcade boils down to two guys who make silly cartoons who somehow turned it into a multi-million dollar business. So, what do they do with their sudden power and affluence? They start a charity to help sick children. They are honest with their personal and mental problems and use their experiences to help others. They start a convention focusing on bringing people together under common interests. Heck, they even implemented anti-booth babe and sexual harassment policies, addressing issues Patrick himself brought up about E3. I mean, how many sudden success stories can claim one of these things, let alone the whole attitude of using new found power to spread around community? They did this without any prodding or necessity. I have read dozens of posts about how Penny Arcade helped people through tough times. How many websites can say that?

The second point are the comments of "I don't want to go to PAX because I don't feel safe or welcome there." I must first say that I apologize in advance if I offend those who fear harm at the event. I believe everyone should remain in situations in which they will be safe. My concern here though is that people are scared based upon their perception of a situation rather than any proven actualities. I have never heard stories of any violence or assault at PAX. I see the Enforcers constantly praised for the skills in which they perform their duties. I am sure though that there are ignorant horrible people there that are offensively sexist, but isn't that the case everywhere? I'm not saying that this attitude should be excused because not everyone feels this way. (One of my LEAST favorite arguments in a debate is "if you don't like it, ignore it." I'm sorry, things aren't that simple.) Rather, there is no evidence that this horrendous ideology dominates a place like PAX. People will cheer the dickwolves thing, but look at game journalists and bloggers. I have yet to read anything that fully supports that way of thought. I just never understood the logic of boycotting something that might happen, yet to my knowledge (I could be ignorant), has yet to happen. I see no one being excluded at PAX, but quite the contrary. It seems to be one of the most welcoming conventions I have ever attended. So, one man says stupid things on occasion. How about the hundreds of thousands who go to PAX and seems to think what he says is dumb? Once again, the man also have purposefully put policies in place to make specifically women feel more comfortable by banning booth babes and the ilk.

I read once that Mike and Jerry regretted calling PAX "the Penny Arcade Expo" because it turned into something much bigger than Penny Arcade. I agree and feel that it is beyond the statements of one of the creators. I do agree that the situation was botched a lot, but I also feel that people are overly fascinated with the situation, like it is some kind of spectacle. Every time there is a new "dickwolves" debacle, people do nothing but talk about it for a week, standard users begging for people to comment on it. I guess I disagree with Patrick that public figures need to be held to a different standard when it comes to people's perceptions of them. Mike's mistakes seem very human to me and are very in line to mistakes everyone makes. Since they concern modern controversial issues, I feel like they get brought up often.

This is the part where I say something personal that may be construed as ignorant or insensitive, so once again, I apologize in advance. I do agree that the two of them should have shut up and not made that follow up comic, and ESPECIALLY not made that merchandise. But as much as everyone states that "its not about the original joke," I think it very much is. When I read that comic, I find it ironic that it was what started this whole mess. I personally consider myself neutral on most issues and try to see things from all sides as much as any human can. I have noticed that people like to see the best in whatever side they support and the worst in the opposing side, but I just want to say that I think all sides have their bad and good people. When the "dickwolves" story is recited in news posts, people write that the response was "small and civil," and from what I remember reading while the thing was actually happening, that was not the case. If I recall, the initial comic received a huge backlash and not a lot of it was very nice or conducive to discourse. I also need to point at that during that whole recent transgender debacle, Mike did receive death threats towards himself and his family, particularly his kids. So, yes, two years removed I feel that they should have not have made the follow up comic. Yet, I have to be honest and admit I liked it at the time. I could not understand either why "the sixth slave" caused such a backlash. It was about how ignorantly callous towards real world horrors we can be in video games and people were upset because it mentioned rape? I mean, it also mentions slavery and assault as well. I just didn't get it.

I do get it now. I understand why people could be offended This leads into my big issue about modern outrage and why I think there is so much frustration surrounding this issue. The outraged seem to think that the other side should automatically understand why they are outraged. So, they will often engage and even berate an opponent without actually explaining why the issue has effected them so. To them and those on their side, they cannot fathom that some one may not immediately understand their position. So, in that first onslaught of outrage, it seemed no one explained that they felt the mention of rape in the context could contribute to rape culture or make it viewed to be okay. See, I feel that just because some one believes something or feels outrage, it should not automatically be accepted and corrected. It seems to me in these modern times that people forget how to handle some one who doesn't understand them outright. We can hold a beacon of goodwill and understanding, but sometimes, something comes along that we are ignorant of. Yes, Mike has made some horrendous mistakes, but I feel like his opposition on a whole are acting rather self-righteous and pious about the whole thing.

Chat got pretty heated during the Dick Wolf / "left-click to rape" topics.

Once the "Guns are in GTA. So if you are uncomfortable with sexual abuse in a video game, you are a hypocrite." defense was brought up, I had to just had to quietly walk away and make a cup of coffee.

Seriously, that is the "if you allow gay marriage, we might as well let people marry their pets." of gaming debate.

I first noticed this during this year's PAX East panel.

"Write shorter headlines."

"Make less typos"

*laughs* *cheers*

The only time I've ever even heard about the PA controversies (any of them) is when Mike Krahulik unnecessarily stirs the pot by his own misguided responses to the controversies. It's very much a problem of him not coming to terms with the fact that he represents a whole lot more than himself nowadays.

It's a damn shame, because PAX and Child's Play are two of the most positive organizations in the gaming community. It was nice to have a convention run by people who are actually gamers, rather than marketers who happened to get a job in the field. I'd hate for Mike to ruin all that for us.

But thanks much for the show; I'm glad that there's proper "podcast" content from Scoops and Alex following their departure. I kept forgetting that Alex was even a part of the site over the last year for how little we got to see him in video form.

I'm not a fan of a lot of Miyazaki's later work. I love Kiki's Delivery Service and Grave of the Fireflies the most. Anything after Spirited Away is eh.

@coafi: The video player has actually worked perfectly for me the last couple of months, so guess I'm Lucky there.

And I completely agree with the guys about Ubi's strategy of just releasing hours of gameplay footage before a game is released. I personally never watch that stuff, but I can see how somebody can get tired of a game even before it's released with such a PR strategy.

I hate people all they do is get offended by everything.

Dark souls is not that hard, it takes some time to get used to, and it does a bad job explaining things in the game. i played it and while i did die many times, i never felt frustrated or punished. You can't rush or get stressed, just take your time and the game will be enjoyable. game is not that long ether, took me about 20 hours.

Alex mentions Totoro so I had to post this again.

@olemarthin: Yeah the internet fear of Dark Souls really confused me when I actually played the game, its not that hard at all, it just doesn't hold your hand.

@amyggen: @pyronite: It's mostly random for me, somedays it works alright, other days it simply loads like 30 secs and stops and then it barely buffers. I'm not sure if it's my browser or my connection.

@patrickklepek The Metroid Prime Trilogy for the Wii is going at a pretty high price for used copies online since it had a limited release, but apparently Gamestop's doing that thing with it that they just did with Xenoblade Chronicles where they're taking the shrink wrap off new copies and selling them as used so they can charge $80 for it. Crazy price, but probably better than you could find elsewhere? It plays well with the Wii pointer and all 3 games have widescreen support so it's pretty good!

I still can't get over how bad/creepy the art for this podcast looks.

Just wanted to chime in quickly, fantastic job on the show Patrick and Alex, this is fast becoming one of my favourite features on the site. I think it complements the regular Bombcast very well and I appreciate the in-depth conversation on the various topics. Keep up the good work.

Saying that something offends you is a nice way of criticizing it without being constructive about it. It's lazy and worthless.

Classifying the Dickwolves strip as a "rape joke" is grossly inaccurate. It would be the same as classifying any comic strip with an African American in it as a "black joke".

The discussion on criticism vs. censorship was splendid.

I feel as if the only people who think the Souls games are a daunting task to undertake are the ones who haven't touched it, or played a sand grain's worth.

@neckbear said:

Saying that something offends you is a nice way of criticizing it without constructive about it. It's lazy and worthless.

I am so, so tired of seeing that pasted everywhere. And I love Stephen Fry.

My favorite Miyazaki film is Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. You guys need to watch it. I know they released a US version, but I've only watched the Chinese dub and the original Japanese.

@tournamentofhate: I actually got my hands on a new copy off of Amazon, still in the shrink wrap. After hearing all the stories of how little copies were made for this game, I was sort of euphoric that I got my hands on a sealed copy after, what's it been, 4 years since the trilogy released. Feels like holding what will be a piece of history in your hands. Should probably mention the part where I paid nearly £50 for it though, which I imagine is somewhere close to about $70, for a goddamn Wii game!

I think the idea that it would be (paraphrasing here) really easy to wash your hands of PAX and walk away from it really untrue.

It would be an enormous professional inconvenience, you would take a lot of heat from your own fan base, other industry people, and you wouldn't get to go to PAX anymore which by all accounts is a lot of fun (for those that feel safe there, anyway).

It seems like it would be really hard, take a lot of courage, and be very divisive.

And frankly, I wish this site would do it.

Giantbomb has quite a lot of influence, if they left - things would either have to change or a new gaming convention would have to emerge in its place. It could shed all this baggage and build a convention of inclusivity, refocused on smaller games (PAX is becoming bloated as is), untold gaming narratives (one of the chief reasons I love Patricks work).

It is asking a lot, but reading testimonial after testimonial of individuals and developers that boycott PAX year after year - one can't ask less.

@jclane: Oh nice! Yeah I got a used copy for about $90, which I didn't really mind because I hadn't played those games before and wanted to for awhile. I actually lucked out on Xenoblade, after finding no copies at all in my city I got the last copy off of EBGames's(Canada's Gamestop) website for like $50. Still waiting for a good time to play that since I've heard it could be well over 100 hours long.

Have you read the manga version? It's like 4 books of 150-200 pages each, and it's mindblowing. My favorite of the things Miyazaki has done. It's much more elaborate than the film.

I am personally of mixed feelings on this issue, but I just wanted to say I thought your comment is well put and deserves to be read.

#What drives me nuts is that you aren't allowed to exist in any point in-between the dickwolves debate; you either see them as horrible people or as saints. I just wanna see videogames goddamnit

now that's how you handled a complicated issue. Excellent show

@roomrunner: Although it is quite telling the lengths people will go to try to justify why senseless violence in games is okay, whereas rape (or even sexual stuff in general) is off-limits.

God, I really, really enjoy this show!

Patrick and Alex, thanks for this awesome content :)

@Inafune: Capcpom has made it their CORPORATE MISSION to be as unclassy as possible. I'd expect them if they kept form to sue the pants off of Inafune and everyone connected to it. After releasing a Megaman XI with Fat Old SFxT Megaman. On mobile. Freemium. (this goes on for a while)

@DaK II: There's a wonderful article on USGAMER about how longtail Dark Souls PVP is. A game of passion, of play.

@Ubisoft: That's a good point. I think yall are on to something.

like this comment if spirited away makes you cry every time