Mass Alex: Mass Effect 03 - Part 21

monster of an episode!

As to whether you should do the citadel dlc before or after the end, I'll just say this: when I finished ME3 for the first time, I felt like an empty husk of a person. Like I could never enjoy anything ever again, especially anything Mass Effect related. However, after I played the citadel dlc when it came out a year later, I actually had hope for Mass Effect as a franchise and no longer had a bitter taste leftover from the ending.

So my vote is definitely for doing the citadel dlc after completing the game as a bittersweet reward for enduring the ending.

edit: also the tone of the citadel dlc is like whacky off the charts and would result in whiplash going from that to the final missions, it's much better experienced after the game.

Paying $5 for that Head 👀

Mass Alex is here

SHEP SHEP

Ah yes, the totally optional plot-critical DLC trend of 2012 (see: Asura's Wrath).

As always, great content! Just here to put in my vote for completing the Citadel DLC before taking on the Cerberus base. It's such a great rallying moment for the crew before the final conflict.

Second this.

I'm a levia"fan"

To me the Citadel DLC fit better after the ending, because I think the tone is... different from how dire things are prior to the ending.

But it did fit only because of a specific ending and my own head canon around that ending (trying not to spoil stuff here), so I think playing it before the ending is also okay.

I 100% agree

So . . . the Cliff Notes summary for those just joining:

Watching this series, I keep thinking that I remember just how *bad* the main plot stuff is in ME3. And then a new episode comes along and re-reminds me that it's even dumber than I remember. And it isn't just the huge leaps in logic, or the massive plot holes, or the incessant retconning, or BioWare's ignorance of their own universe's rules, it's just basic Writing 101 stuff.

Like, if you're going to set Harbinger up as this big, massively important thing because it's the "first" Reaper then you don't get to just leave that hanging and completely ignore it later. I think Harbinger is mentioned explicitly one other time in the rest of the game by the Reaper you fight on Rannoch. And then another Reaper shows up for about 30 seconds at the end of the final mission and I think you're just supposed to assume that's Harbinger coming to stop you. If it was explicitly mentioned there, then it was done in such a minor way I don't remember it being obvious at all.

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But to keep with everyone else, yes, you should play the Citadel DLC and you should do it after the main plot is concluded so you at least have something positive to end the experience. Of course, I think the real answer is to turn the game off during the final mission and just head-cannon what happens. It's 100% guaranteed to be better than what you get in the actual game.

My vote is for sure to do Citadel before the end. The end is... the end, you know. Mass Effect and Mass Alex should end with it. And the party is a fantastic way to prepare for the final stretch.

Also, this DLC rules so fucking much. I agree it’s crazy it’s not in the main game, but the reveal is SO GOOD. So hard to do this kind of lore dump satisfyingly, but they really pull it off here.

I also agree with this. I totally appreciated it coming after the game, especially as a palate cleanser, but I think it fits much better and the tone suits a "Hey, we might all die tomorrow, so lets just have a good time", much more when incorporated into the overall story.

Whenever you guys do it, make sure you have a block of time, as it's quite long and there's a lot of conversations and moments to poke around at. Especially if you want to do the pull up challenge battle.

I'm gonna have to say do the citadel dlc before the end of the game. I understand it was made a long time after release, but when I played through again just to get to it, it hit some pretty good notes and the ending is at least somewhat more fleshed out now than it was at launch so it wont be such a hard pill to swallow. Plus I think part of the end of that game that struck the hardest was that it was just that. An end. That brings about a set of emotions that wont hit as hard if you have "one last bit of dlc" to do after it. The citadel dlc works best as a last hurrah before finishing up the trilogy.

I think it's best to do the whole DLC after the ending. The DLC does not fit narratively in the story. It's very light-hearted with zero urgency to the point that it feels like the Reaper threat does not exists. It's also a great farewell to the games and this series after the bittersweet ending of the game itself.

I played Citadel after the end of the game and would highly recommend this approach to others.

a) Quality. It’s my personal favourite DLC in all of mass effect and ends things on a high, joyous note. Comparatively speaking I found the actual ending of ME3 underwhelming and not very coherent.

b) Tone. ME3 proper is very grim. Millions of people are dying for every day the reapers remain. CitadelDLC is a (pretty well executed) popcorn action movie story bookended with heartfelt character vignettes and a big ol’ party. Seems perfectly apt for a warm farewell to the Mass Effect trilogy.

Absolutely with Vinny. Tackle the Citadel dlc before the end game. The ending is such that whether you like it or not it'll feel weird coming back to the game after it. Also, there's a significant amount of stuff to do in in the Citadel dlc. I would say two (possibly) full episodes worth of content especially if you save scum the party to do the alternate party. The actual Citadel mission itself maybe is tonally out of whack with what's happening right now but it's kind of a nice breathe of fresh air with just how depressing the main story in this game largely is.

Wow, I can't believe I never played this DLC. Also, I can't believe this was DLC.

In a certain sense, what it does is "fixes" one of the two main problems people had with the ending at release... and, I would argue, the Extended Cut fixes the other main problem. Or again, "fixes," relatively speaking.

Granted, I didn't play ME3 at all until the Extended Cut was released-- and I played it directly after playing the original ending, back to back, which felt like a huge relief. So although I know in a limited sense how fucking awful that OG ending felt, I don't have the visceral sense of betrayal informing my thinking, which anyone who finished the game at release obviously would have had.

With the Leviathan/Javik/Ending DLCs in the main game, there still would have been arguments from some fans about the game being a "letdown," but not the universal hatred and justifiable anger that it got in its original form. Especially when it comes to the ending DLC-- after all, a great or terrible ending changes your view of the entire story which came before. A decent ending? Somewhere in between.

In retrospect, I mostly feel bad for Bioware, and its workers especially-- because between this and the EC ending, you get the sense they could have made this the game they really wanted if given another year, and EA ratfucked them by essentially saying "instead of giving you more time, how about you put out the rest of the story as DLC after the fact."

I mean, there's no way any sane creative person would have thought this didn't belong in the main game. But some dumbass corporate suit? Definitely.

can you *please* fix the audio balance? Your voices are about 3x as loud as the game voices.

please do the Citadel DLC before the end. it's a nice breath of fresh air, and it builds your relationship with the characters and gives everything you do more weight.

@zoofame: I played mass effect for 20 bucks way after so i had like a week delay of my own accord between games and got through the 60 hour 3 game saga in about 3 summer weeks, no school as a college kid. Gotta say. The vitriol for the base game never hit me. I was fine with the ending. That said I like dark and not everyone wins endings like infinity war or Last of Us 2. From social science, I learned that most often movie creators or creators, in general, found out people enjoy things with endings they associate with good more than bad. So the good guy winning is much more palatable than well you won but at what cost etc...Overall I learned after not throwing a fit at Halo 2's ending...im just not on the same wavelength as the internet and its hate boner for stories that don't go their way. Yes I also didn't think Last Jedi was so bad that it needed to be retooled like it was in the 9th-star wars movie. I'm a perplexing bunch XD.

@therealturk: I thought its like a thanos thing from infinity war. Its not suppose to make sense if thought about. Villians dont need to be perfect or right otherwise the hero wouldnt try stop them. If your looking for some writing where the villian is as competent and right as the hero id say thats out there but not necessary. Sometimes scifi for fun is well fun.

My pithy answer on Citadel DLC, based on what everyone else is saying, is to ask Alex, "would you rather end the series with the guarantee of feeling good, or the possibility of feeling really, really bad." I could see him going either way.

Doing it after the ending would be much better from the audience's standpoint though.

It'll give Alex and Vinny several hours more time to debate and talk about the ending "on camera" after they've experienced it. Otherwise the end of the series might be ten minutes of people sounding highly conflicted and confused over the end credits, followed by no more Mass Alex. Ever.

So I think "after" would be my vote. Make Citadel the emotional "epilogue" it was created to be.

@pinkcrayon32: I prefer doing the DLC before the ending simply because going back after the ending breaks it for me, considering that the game has a very finite ending.

@alex@vinny My opinion is that the Citadel DLC should done AFTER the endgame (like you did with the Arrival mission in ME2). It might feel weird timeline-wise, but it was designed as a fun chaser/send-off for the series after the seriousness of the main game, and works best when played as such.
In addition to a completely different tone, the story is also unrelated to the main game, and doing it right before you wrap up the main plot might run the risk of Alex losing the threads of the plot so far.

Think of it as being like the outtakes the play over the credits of a Jackie Chan/Burt Reynolds movie. Regardless of how you guys end up feeling about ME3's ending, the Citadel DLC would guarantee you end Mass Alex on a high note, with plenty of smiles!

I think the Citadel works best after the credits roll. Not only is it completely separate from the ME3 main plot, the tone doesn't fit in this third act at all. It's basically a love letter to the fans, a farewell to the Mass Effect trilogy. I'd much rather say goodbye to the series with a fantastic piece of DLC than with the actual ME3 ending.

Team Citadel DLC AFTER the credits roll all the way, it's a much better way to end the Mass Effect Trilogy.

Well put.

I'd vote for doing the DLC before the credits, figure its gonna be a full ep and might as well put it where it belongs in the timeline. Cheerful reminder of the fun we had along the way before the "sad" farewell.

I wasn't as big a fan of the Citadel DLC as everyone else seemed to be, so I wouldn't think playing it last would make you come away from the game with a different feeling. But I also don't like coming back after the end of a game to do pre-ending DLC, so that might be affecting my opinion.

Do the DLC before the ending, as I don’t think you can do all the content for Citadel after it.

Citadel is great before the ending. It fits dramatically, it adds to the story. It's a sweet goodbye to the series, before its conclusion.

This is false, the game will dump you into a pre-endgame save after you beat it.

@pinkcrayon32: Fair enough, I admit I stopped playing the game after I did that DLC. Nevertheless I’d still suggest to do the DLC before the ending.

I never played the Citadel DLC, but I will say (with no spoilers) there are some bits with The End involving character moments that send off the series. I actually know very little about what goes down in the Citadel DLC, so this is just my perception:

The Citadel DLC seems like one of those series finales that goes around the room, gives everybody one last big send off before you have to say goodbye.

The end of Mass Effect 3 is like a series finale that builds up to the final confrontation and provides closure to the overall story.

Either of these should be the very last thing in Mass Alex and you can make the case for either being the one Alex should do. Again I haven’t played Citadel, but I would probably vote for The End.

How long is Citadel? Is this something that Alex can do in a single episode like Leviathan, or is this a two or three parter like Omega?

Do Citadel before the endgame. I think the ending is definitive enough that it would make going back afterwards difficult since you're literally loading back a pre-ending save point to do it. I can see an argument for doing it after though since the way it ends is also sort of a closure on the emotional arcs of the series (just not the plot arc).

Either way, just make sure you do it. Citadel is absolutely the best bit of Mass Effect content out there, so long as you think you would enjoy a piece of content that is a little goofy and self-referential. It was released as a love letter to the fans who had been there from the first game and I love it.

Whatever Alex picks, would love a spoiler cast or revisit the series in a HotSpot or something. All of Mass Effect deserves some kind of final wrap up, whether it’s just Alex and Vinny talking, or Brad and Jeff joins in also

(I kind of wish they did something like that with Metal Gear Scanlon back in the day to be honest.)

I believe Citadel DLC should be played before the last mission for a couple of reasons. If played after it might make little to no sense story-wise (depending on the choice in the last mission), if played before it fits right in as a last crazy party before the great battle, the last time the gang are to see each other. I also think that with the last mission still looming it packs more of a punch, and it becomes elevated above comic relief.

Edit: Come to think about it, playing Citadel after the end makes absolutely no sense at all in regards to the story. Like you all those things that happened in the final mission? Forget them, they didn't happen, here let's party.

@pinkcrayon32: I agree, Citadel is clearly post game fun times DLC

I say do Citadel now. It actually works completely fine to chip away at Citadel and Leviathan during the whole game, but the way Citadel ends, specifically after doing all of the extra story stuff after you finish the main part of it, is a great final sendoff right before heading off to kick cerberus in the reaper balls.

People saying "play it after" are headcanon'ing explicitly, as even citadel dlc mentions things that are happening before the ending of the game.

Recently watched through a blind stream of Mass Effect 3 and as someone who did play Citadel post-game (because I had already finished the main game at launch), it works pretty darn well being injected mid-late game. Some might get a bit of tonal whiplash but it can bring some much-needed levity to a game that might become overbearingly grim/depressing for a bit too long (by necessity of the plot, but overbearing nonetheless)

@zoofame: thank you for saying what needed to be said. The whole rhetoric around Bioware having 'objectively bad writing' back in the day made me (and still makes me) roll my eyes so hard they exit out the back of my fucking skull

@pinkcrayon32: "I felt like an empty husk of a person"

I see what you did there.

But honestly, having replayed this game recently, the Leviathan DLC is unfortunately a bit of a damp squi(d)b. The reveal is sort of just stated and then everyone's like, 'cool story bro, let's get back to it'. Whether you desperately needed to know the origins of the reapers in a DLC, or whether this could have been a mission slotted into the main story is either or I guess.

As for the citadel DLC, I think you do have to do it before the point of no return, simply because the ending of the DLC does have a 'last enjoyable night in the barracks before the probable suicide mission tomorrow' feel to it, even though it would be extremely worthwhile for the audience having an episode or two just hearing Alex and Vinny discuss the main game endings.

Oh, yes that is worth noting.

I definitely don’t want to mislead Alex here. ”Citadel” happens canonically before The End.

I still definitely am one of the people advocating “play it after” for the sake of all those good Mass Effect vibes even if it does require ignoring the context of some dialogue here and there.

Citadel DLC before the ending! The ending is the end, save the credits for when you’re done. If you want to say goodbyE the to world and the characters before the end then the dlc is a good way to do it, but not after the narrative end of the story. My take!

if I replay the trilogy I play the citadel dlc then play the end. Otherwise it’s like going back in time to a world and feeling ‘well I was done with this already, so this is nice but its not happening ’now’ within the story’

I really don’t get the argument for playing Citadel after the ending because the tone shifts. It’s no different then how many games break up serious story beats with fun side missions, take Yakuza 0 for example. The Citadel DLC was clearly designed to be experienced over the course of a playthrough. Let the ending stand and do it’s job to wrap up the whole (including Citadel DLC) of the Mass Effect journey to it’s natural conclusion.

@clagnaught: the citadel dlc is relatively Large. It’s not just one or two missions. There are side things, conversations and multiple story beats, so it would probably be at least 2 episodes to finish.

It's a fucking crime how essential the DLC is to the Mass Effect series. I don't know of any other series that presents such vital content as 'optional'. Almost every single one is a knockout.

My vote is to do the DLC before the ending. It’s pretty fun, and it a nice pep rally before all the shit the end puts you through.

I'm surprised no one else is mentioning this. Alex's audio in particular is loud AF, and the game audio is fairly low.