Mass Alex: Mass Effect 03 - Part 21

These two said it best and I've said similar in the comments of previous episodes. Citadel is a great and fun "lost episode" that really celebrates the characters and the series at large and is the true send-off for the fans. The game's final mission is the conclusion to this game's story and as such can be emotionally exhausting. Incidentally, I think playing through all of Citadel would make for a fun livestream. But as ever, the choice is yours, spaceboyz.

I vote for doing citadel before the end

Don't you not need to depressurize when you are going down in a pressurized container? I thought that's how it works at least.

Do the citadel dlc before the end! I feel it makes more sense there.

I typically do it, then Leviathan, then finish the game.

Citadel DLC before the end has a sort of poignancy to it, when the fate of the universe was still in the balance, that I think maybe wouldn't play as a post script kind of thing. I'm avoiding referencing a TV show with a famously lame ending that playing the DLC post credits would have the same vibe as.

Citadel before ending

Might wanna just spend a bunch of money and upgrade your teammates' guns before heading to the next main mission. Even by just acouple levels. They'll be atleast a bit more helpful in fights.

Also, yeah, I vote do the Citadel DLC next.

As far as DLC order goes, it's a tough one. Whenever I play I always do the Citadel DLC before the end because that's where it literally goes storywise. BUT for someone who has never played it before, I can see the argument that playing it before the end will be some serious tonal whiplash.

Citadel DLC belongs before the ending. The main thing is you do it after the Sanctuary part, which Alex has already done, since Miranda wouldn't be part of it otherwise. But definitely before the ending.

Wow. This is some bad writing. "If darkness was a feeling, this was it." Oh my god, please stop. And "You have breached the darkness, you should not be here." Is what an angsty teenager would say when their younger sibling enters their room. Not a flipping ancient one.

Also, the whole Leviathan thing is just some absolute nonsense. My ears are slowly withering away whenever that big space alien bug speaks, it's amazing how silly it is.

Hmm....Citadel DLC before Ending. Citadel is character-focused while the ending is all about finality, so knowing the fate of all the characters will erase any hope or anxiety for them post game. Prequelitis.

Also, your feelings toward the ending, good or bad, may make you not want to play anymore Mass Effect in the immediate future, let alone the following Tuesday.

So this was the Leviathan DLC! Some of the things I most looked forward to experiencing when Mass Alex began years ago, since I never did.

In all the rightly indignant talk of how could this be DLC that you had to pay extra for, I feel like the historical context is a little lost. It's not like it was simply a question of spending money; Omega, Leviathan, or the Citadel DLCs did not even exist until long after all of us hooked on the series have finished the main game. Javik was there from day one, came with the deluxe N7 edition, or whatever it was called, that I naturally bought.

And that's how I ended up never playing or seeing any of these DLCs before, despite considering myself a great fan of the series. Wrapped up the campaign a couple days from release, then just kept playing the multiplayer on and on for a good half a year, maybe more, until one day I randomly stopped, and that was it. I even ended up buying all this DLC later on, thinking that maybe I'll muster the will to reinstall the game, which of course I never did. Happens to me all the time with games.

All that makes me clearly no authority on the Citadel DLC, but I definitely lean towards them jumping in right away, come next episode. Frankly, I wished they did even earlier! Excited to see what it's all about. The most compelling argument I saw here on postponing it for later was that they could then have a lengthier discussion about the ending during it, which I sure would love to hear… Except, you know, maybe not while trying to enjoy and experience the Citadel DLC, juggling if I should be trying to follow the subtitles or an unrelated chat on the ending. As for all the worries about a different tone or emotions, Alex takes at least a week between play sessions. Surely that removes any possible issues with that.

@therealturk said:

So . . . the Cliff Notes summary for those just joining:

Watching this series, I keep thinking that I remember just how *bad* the main plot stuff is in ME3. And then a new episode comes along and re-reminds me that it's even dumber than I remember. And it isn't just the huge leaps in logic, or the massive plot holes, or the incessant retconning, or BioWare's ignorance of their own universe's rules, it's just basic Writing 101 stuff.

So, I'll offer a defense of it

In terms of what makes sense story-wise, I'd say do the citadel DLC before heading out to the final missions. or, if you're ok with mentally treating it as a flashback, then after would be fine too! But if you want a more linear story experience, before. When I played the original game, I played it all the way through no DLC, then when all the DLC came out, I played the entire game through again and did all the DLC before the end of the game (and I found it more emotionally satisfying to have the citadel DLC in there before the end).

Oh, and I'm also firmly on team "Do it before the ending"

The citadel DLC is very much a side story (unlike Leviathan) and is narratively quite different from the rest of ME3, so it doesn't matter too much when you do it. I lean a bit towards after the credits, since it's a bit of a fun romp that reflects on Shepard and the crew she built (but you could put that as an argument for doing it before too).

As someone who likes to play Citadel DLC after the ending -- for obvious headcanon reasons -- the very final cutscene of Citadel DLC tonally fits very well right before starting the last mission of the game. I'd advice them to play it right before the final mission.

Alex and Vinny: WHATEVER you do, please please PLEASE upgrade your squads weapons before the final mission. Please.

Will Alex play Andromeda?

Yeah, count me in with the people saying to do the Citadel DLC before the point of no return. Apart from it actually making sense timeline-wise, it works well as a great rallying point/morale booster for the crew. There's more weight to the events of the DLC knowing that it could be the last time they can all get together and have fun before they head into the last big climactic battle to decide the fate of the galaxy.

Also, just let the actual game and trilogy's ending be the ending to this series!!!

unless of course they decide to do andromeda, which i honestly would be super curious to see because i haven't played it and have no desire to do so myself!

Great episode, man this still blows me away how this thing was not already in the game at first. Story still had flaws but no wonder the base game at launch felt rushed and empty towards the back third of the game.

I don't mind when you start the last DLC. It'll be a fun ride whenever you decide to play it. I do see why some people would prefer it last in order to wash the bad taste the ending leaves in your mouth.

DLC first.

I never played the Citadel DLC, but after watching a YouTube playthrough of it I'm for doing it before the point of no return. I get why some people play it afterwards bc they be disappointed in how the ending left them emotionally, but the tone of the DLC pack feels like a "let's have fun before the big climax" bit and to me it fits more when played in that context rather than after you seen everything else.

Also, I personally feel like the tonal whiplash would be worse if Alex played it after the ending because that ending, however you may feel about it, leaves you with alot of questions and feelings that make you want to digest it and discuss it. I don't want to have Alex having that kind of mood when playing a crazy, fun piece and that episode/episodes would be better spent if he played closer attention to what was going on rather than still digesting the end of ME3.

Like, while I do agree playing Arrival after the end of ME2 was the right call, that episode just felt awkward and anti-climatic, from an emotional perspective, to me after they did the ending, especially when Tali died and Alex couldn't help but bring that up frequently while playing Arrival.

I think the Citadel DLC should be after the main game as well. Also, right now will they see the extended ending no matter what they do or is there a way to see what the ending was on release?

Also I just reread the differences between the original and the extended and oh boy do they need to play the original. That shit was bananas.

What does everybody want?!

What does everybody need?!

Since Alex & Vinny stated before they installed all the DLC packs, we're probably going to get the extended cuts.

Vital main story content should never be DLC, period. Side story with no impact on the main campaign? Sure! Extra character that isn't deeply linked to the entire trilogy? Sure! But wow... this is just vile. That said, considering games like this still cost just $60 when games 20 years ago cost $60-$100, it doesn't surprise me that studios were trying anything to recover production costs and turn a profit. I can't even imagine how much money this entire trilogy costed to make.

I'm glad someone besides me knows the movie Every Which Way But Loose.

Just to point it out, the Leviathan DLC came out six months after the base game (that is three months after the "extended cut"). It feels a lot more reactionary than Javik being cut as a day 1 DLC. As such, I felt some of the writing in the final exposition dump was created specifically to address some of the complains the community had with the ending. Of course, there is no way to know that for sure (I think the developers never talked about it on interviews), but I am guessing a lot of re-writing went on after the game reception and the role and importance of the Leviathan race was changed, so that what might have been, originally, a side mission with little impact on the overall story (like the Omega DLC) ended up being critical to understanding the final hours of the game.

Concerning the discussion of when to engage with the Citadel DLC, I think it's better if they do it after the ending. The DLC has a tone and writing that clashes with the urgency of the final missions, with the galaxy being in flames and people dying by the trillions. Meanwhile, Citadel has a much lighter tone and is clearly intended as a send off love letter by fans to fans of the universe. Before Andromeda was even conceptualized, this was Bioware's way of saying "we know we had our ups and downs, but we loved the journey and we loved that you went along with us". As such, I think it is a pretty fitting ending to this feature, much more fitting than the story mode ending...

I'd recommend the Citadel DLC after. It'll be a good week or so after you finish the story end so you can (and will probably want to) run down your thoughts after a little distance while engaging in some good times.

I love the mass effect trilogy, but never played Leviathan. I HAD NO CLUE ABOUT ALL THAT GREAT LORE WTF. Absolutely wild that's not in the main game.

Alex, the thing i want to really emphasise about Leviathan is that it came out August 28th. Mass Effect 3 came out March 6th. When we saw credits roll back in early 2012, we knew literally none of what you just experienced. Even with the updated ending that you'll see, please keep in mind that nothing in Leviathan was known about for nearly six months after the game launched. It's likely that at least some of the narrative there was written in response to the backlash to the ending, but we'll never know for sure.

That head was cool. Easily worth $5.

I say do the citadel DLC before attacking the cerberus base. It's a real good time with some wacky shit. So it's a good send off before the final mission.

I do not agree with doing the DLC after Alex. I believe you would regret it at least based on the ending I played through. In Game of Thrones parlance, it would be like watching "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" after the, imo disappointing, conclusion of "The Long Night" where the

GoT spoiler below:

White Walkers siege is resolved.

@a_green_olive: I feel like that's every episode.

@clagnaught: The DLC is sort of in two parts; a story part and then all the fun follow-up extra stuff. I think it would end up being two episodes.

I always do the story part right after Tali's mission and then all the extra stuff up through the end up the game as you resolve your squadmate's storylines. I would say Alex should do it before he finishes the game.

I am so glad they got the head.

Everything you said is well put.

I feel like if I were going to do a continuation of the story of Mass Effect as it's left at the end of 3 I would write whatever nonsense I needed to to handwave the Reapers away, and build up Leviathans as the next threat. With the Reapers no longer a threat there's a power vacuum that they could want to refill - to reclaim their lost empire. They could similarly start mucking with the Krogan or using other races to provoke a war to continue to weaken rebuilding efforts while they enact their spread.

It's fertile ground. It's too bad they felt the need to go the direction they did with Andromeda (which I also liked, but it just wasn't the same). But it's ground they can still come back to.

Citadel DLC has to come after the ending. I can't fathom a world in which its more satisfying before.

Do Citadel before the ending.

I missed this DLC the first time around and I'm definitely getting the upcoming trilogy (assuming it's not a garbage fire).

Should I skip this episode? I'm led to believe there's a lot of good, meaty story and maybe I'm better off experiencing it myself...

This was a fun one, Alex was on fire this episode.

I’m a Citadel before final mission kind of guy. The tone swing doesn’t bother me and assuming there’s a week between recording episodes, that’s plenty of time for it to settle down before hitting the finish.

The end is the end, so it’s more important to me to see it through in a way that jives narrativologically. Rewinding after you finish the thing just doesn’t sit right in my brain.

But I’m also one of those sickos that likes the ending, so bury my opinion in the salt flats if you like.

FWIW I'm one of those sickos too (cough mainly the extended cut Control ending cough) so you're not alone :P

I never played this DLC, had no idea about this part of the story. I was so mad about the pricing and content structure of ME3 I just stopped buying games from EA after that until the recent C&C re-release.

Do some multiplayer to get your EFFECTIVE galactic readiness score up! Effective is what matters!

underrated comment. i love it.

I'm surprised to see such a split on the Citadel DLC. Either way you go about it there's no wrong choice.

To me, the Citadel DLC is like the cast of a TV show throwing an after party at the end of a series. It's fun, intentionally campy as all F, and I love it. Though how it ends I think would be a great way to end Mass Alex... weird how they didn't make any Mass Effect games after this one. =)