The Giant Beastcast: Episode 19

Woo, it's up early!

The beast has awoken!

Huzzah! New Beastcast for the win!

I was just wondering where this was, or if they would skip in honor of Alex's vacation, glad to see nothing stops the beast cast

Edit: we actually have that porous asphalt on most (90%) of the highways where I'm from and its pretty good for getting rid of spray and preventing puddles and aquaplaning, it's also used as a noise reduction measure.

Jeff coming in HOT in the first 3 minutes. Good to have him backalar.

BEASTCAST YO.

Yay! :D

METRIC SYSTEM GO

@bombaluigi: vote Lincoln Chaffee 2016

More like Shortcast.

Welcome to Jeff...Is...Backalar!

Real Talk Incoming: Vinny, lumberjacks don't call those falling branches widow-makers for nothing.

Nothing wrong with pre-ordering (in general)...of course the Deus Ex thing was gross on the publisher's end. I see tons of people on sites like Kotaku or from people like TotalBiscuit rail against pre-ordering, but you know what? Do what you want to do. Nothing wrong with the practice itself and depending on your area it really does determine if you get a copy from that retailer for some smaller releases.

Also about Kickstarter, like I said in another thread, I've backed over 40 projects now and they've all (but one) been great. I wish those got as much publicity as the ones that go bad. If a game is successful on Kickstarter it just gets brushed aside but if it fails somehow (in delivering) then its newsworthy it feels like.

Finally a podcast brave enough to take weather dot com down a peg

In a drunken stupor from Thursday night - good early morning present

Sometimes you say a thing, and it turns out that was a spell.

I really hope ya'll recorded this yesterday cause if not...what did Austin do, sleep at the office? Didn't he say at one point they turned the air off in the building? That couldn't have been fun.

Hard to believe they are on the 19th episode already!

@sammo21: I mean, the successful Kickstarters get good reviews and good coverage. I think it's important to report on Kickstarters that went to shit because it makes it obvious how little the consumer can do when that happens. It's a donation, I know I know, but there's still probably plenty of people who aren't aware of how little recourse they have if someone runs away with their money.

I've never donated to a Kickstarter, but that's not out of some principle, it's because I'm lazy and want others to do the work. But I think that Kickstarter in general has been a good thing.

@naoiko: The Beastcast is always recorded on Thursdays, as far as I know. Austin even mentions that he's going to do the raid after they finish recording.

Yeah, it's always recorded on Thursdays.

@austin_walker needs to give Dan and/or Drew those hot MGSV tips.

@sammo21: There is a lot wrong with preordering, there's a reason that such disparate groups 'rail against' the practice. You may have had a point about people in isolated areas otherwise not being able to get a physical copy if it wasn't possible to order all that stuff online. Or you know, digital download.

Preordering would be fine in a world where developers and publishers don't lie about the state of their games, being fine with releasing a broken game (Arkham Knight for PC, actual wasted money from my pocket).

@brownpaperbag: The state of video games at launch and pre-orders are two separate issues. That argument is better framed as "Don't buy games at launch" opposed to "don't pre-order games". I still like physical copies of games, I like my game to be paid for ahead of time, and I like to get those games as early as possible most times...which means I pre-order the game for a midnight launch.

Most of the arguments against pre-orders are because of "retailer exclusive"/exclusive content (that's honestly never a big deal to begin with) and not "this game is broken".

Patrick's run through of Allison Road Alpha:

@burgavo: what is this magic land where the roads drink from the sky?

@sammo21: the state of video games at launch and preordering are not two separate issues. Unless you're saying you only get games as early as possible so you can put them on your shelf and not play them?

You also say most of the arguments against preorders have to do with preorder exclusive content and that it's not a big deal. So is the Dues Ex preorder bonus gross or not?

I really do not understand your position, why are you so adamant in defending preorders?

@brownpaperbag: Not so much defending it as telling people to stop telling other people what to do with their money. The Deus Ex thing was specifically by the publisher opposed to a retailer practice and they suspended it (rightly) because of backlash from the community.

Pre-order a game and buying it on day 1 are two different things that a broken game both effects. Not the exact same issue so much as they are the same potential problem.

You don't understand the position because you aren't discussing anything: you're attempting to talk down to someone who has a position you disagree with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dU9JntKuh0

I have to disagree with you Vinny... I think it's the only time I have... but Paris, Texas is the best town in the best state ever.

I was just thinking about Casino the other day.

@bombaluigi: Now to the the USA to adopt it.

@sammo21: you cannot condemn dues exs preorder campaign then say there is nothing wrong with preorders, not sure the point you're trying to make about who implemented the preorder bonuses.

But yeah youre right about preordering a game being different than buying it on day one. You don't get the preorder bonus if you buy it day one but at least you can actually get an accurate picture of whether or not the game is broken.

Just so you know I will preorder a game if I'm in love with the dev and am planning on buying the game regardless, doesn't mean I make myself wilfully unaware of all the potential problems.

Jeff is just fucking on point every minute

@sammo21: People don't seem to understand that preordering is an option that people do not have to take. The market allows for different types of consumers, and consumers who preorder should be left to do as they wish. I still don't understand the backlash against the Deus Ex preordering. If people did not want to participate in that preorder then they could...not preorder.

Vocal minorities have continued to rail against new industry practices, but the thing that ultimately decides if an industry practice will continue is if consumers make it profitable. The same debate was had with DLC and then later with freemium games. Both of those practices have increased in popularity because consumers willingly participate.

"I got took!"

"The house always wins."

all this and a max rank social link, only on The Giant Beastcast.

I may ruffle some feathers in this, but this is the point where I finally am no longer just tolerating Austin Walker, but feel he is an entertaining. Yes, I couldn't stand him for a long time, but I think a lot of that was due to him finding his stride a the new job and all. I still find it obnoxious when he says "What's Good" every 2 sentences though, and if what happens on the E3 panels happens again I will find him obnoxious again probably >_> Sometimes it is ok to just be silent and let other people talk, you don't have to have a comment on every single thing, only when you have something valuable to input. I think that particular instance felt more like nervousness and trying to impress at a new job. I now no longer cringe, and have been enjoying Austin as a member of the community :)

I should mention, I also originally felt this about Drew when he first started doing quick looks [as only an intern at that point perhaps?]. Once again, nothing personal but it just felt like Drew was incredibly uncomfortable and dull when he first started, but he improved dramatically and became one of my favorites.

@lurkero: Preorders specifically target people who are very excited about a game, so excited they need the game as soon as possible. This new trend of preorder bonuses is now basically saying "if you want to get the most out of your new favourite game, you'd better preorder" because if you don't you won't get all the game has to offer. Now this Dues Ex deal comes along which says "if you want to get the most out of your new favourite game, you'd better preorder and convince as many people as possible to preorder or you don't get an extra in game mission". It`s really quite obvious as to why there was such a backlash.
DLC and Freemium games are still plagued with problems though, and this is a trend that is seemingly getting worse. Season passes are still a complete rip-off for almost every game they are a part of and most freemium games are blatant money grubbers. I`m pretty sure they have talked about "whales" on this podcast. Not to mention full priced games are starting to see freemium style bs added into them (MGSV).
There is absolutely nothing to be gained from lumping people together as "vocal minorities" who are against these practices. These people are not trying to take video games away from you, they are simply advocating the best ways to spend your money and not perpetuate negative business practices. A lot of the times consumers willingly participate because they do not know any better, that is why they need people who actually think about these issues to be this so-called "vocal minority".
Furthermore I really think you need to rethink referring to people against these practices as a "vocal minority" because it seems to me that this Dues Ex stunt is almost universally reviled.

Ito's Uzumaki is great, Gyo is pretty silly though.

@brownpaperbag: You keep trying to say that 'speaking against preorders' is advocating for the best way to spend your money. People will spend their money as they desire, and preorders are a desired product.

At one point, season passes, digital preorder bonuses, and freemuim gameplay models were vocally dismissed by many people yet those things still persist today.

As I already said, people who do not like these pricing models will still be able to purchase the product without preordering. Let consumers speak with their purchasing power and stop telling them that they are wrong for doing something that does not harm anyone else. 'Whales' as they are called are the people who financially support developers at amounts that help developers obtain funds to produce more product. Everybody benefits more than they are harmed by the practice.

@lurkero: When people have an issue with the way something is they tend to speak about it, that is the way the world works. McDonalds is not very healthy but people spend their money on it because they desire the product and it gives them what they want for their money, something to eat. Does this mean nobody should talk about how the food is unhealthy?

Stop saying that those things are not still vocally dismissed by many people because they are, clearly. Unless you want to double down and say there are absolutely no problems with any season pass, preorder bonus or freemium gameplay schemes?

"As I already said, people who do not like these pricing models will still be able to purchase the product without preordering."

This is wrong. If a game has a preorder bonus then in almost every case I can not get the preorder bonus unless I preorder the game, this is fact. Maybe I'll be able to get it a month or two down the line by paying some extra $.

Maybe "whales" wasn't the best term to use but you can't honestly say that everybody is infallible with how they spend their money. Many people need someone to help keep track of their money which is why people like accountants exist. It's also why you are on a website that writes reviews of games that people read so they can decide whether or not they want to spend their money on a game. If you preorder a game you are being robbed of the chance to read the reviews.

oh god Dragon Age 2 preorder...complete with unlocks after x shares on facebook...now i need to remove the memory again from my brain

Man do I feel Vinny's pain on the Mass Effect 2 pre-order bonuses and actually it's worse than he said:

The "Terminus" weapon and armor, which was the Gamestop exclusive pre-order bonus, was never made available for separate purchase on PC or XBox (it is part of a purchasable DLC pack on PS3 because ME2 released on PS3 a year later and they didn't do pre-order bonuses for it). The armor isn't such a big deal, but the weapon (M-490 Blackstorm) is arguably the coolest heavy weapon in the game. It's essentially a Ratchet and Clank style "black hole" gun. The fact that a significant chunk of the player base still doesn't have any way (or any legal way) to access this weapon is insane.

Heyo, just dropping some Hurricane name knowledge that only comes from living in Florida for way too many years.

Hurricane's have names because in modern times they were originally kept track only by longitude and latitude. During WW2 we started naming storms to better keep track of which storm was which.

Now these names are determined in advance, one name for each letter in the alphabet except Q, U, Z, Y, and Z. They alternate gender and only repeat after a period of six years.

That is unless the name is retired. Names like Andrew, Katrina, and Sandy are all retired because their path left enough destruction that their name becomes too infamous to reuse.

The fact that Kickstarter gets it's money regardless of whether or not the project comes to fruition and the fact they have so far done absolutely nothing in terms of helping out backers track down people who run off with the money is setting off some serious red flags. If you setup a campaign through Kickstarter they require you to provide information that one would consider enough to track you down and one would hope that Kickstarter is verifying this information properly prior to giving them the greenlight on making the campaign go live. If I wanted to right now I could go hire some artist to make mockup shots for a platformer, put it up on Kickstarter and hype it up then vanish with the cash and I would have no negative repercussion because I know Kickstarter isn't going to do anything to help the backers track me down and they themselves are not going to either.

I think the idea behind crowdsourcing is great but right now there are not enough rules in place to properly control it. If you think about it fake crowdsourcing campaigns are the new charity donation scam. Look at projects like Clang, that campaign raised over half a million then what came out of it was garbage and they asked for more money before finally saying "games cancelled". If someone with a notable name had not been attached to that project one would assume that they quickly made a demo along with a reason as to why they had to cancel then ran off with the money leaving their backers to think that they tried but it just didn't work out.

To me the idea that Kickstarter has no skin in the game so to speak and makes no effort at all to stop scams or crack down on them is making me hesitant to ever even consider using their service.

@brownpaperbag:

McDonald's food isn't inherently unhealthy, just as preorder bonuses aren't inherently detrimental to a game. Consumers pay for luxuries like videogames and fast food based off of the value that those things have to them. Yes, there are some options worse than others, and there are some people who make unhealthy choices, but everybody goes in with information available to them to know what they are getting. If consumers see a problem with a season pass or preorder then they have the option to not purchase those things. People have the option to purchase something that they desire despite other people not desiring it.

A Preorder bonus is an incentive for consumers to purchase a game early. If every consumer were to receive preorder bonuses for free after a game is released then there wouldn't be as strong of an incentive to preorder. Publishers are trying their best to make money in a world where production is becoming increasingly expensive - especially for big budget games that are typically able to justify preorders. If preorder bonuses weren't profitable for publishers then they would try alternate strategies until something was profitable.

What many people have been trying to say is that publishers are unlikely to continue practices that don't make money, and this means that the longevity of a pricing model reflects consumer reaction to it (excluding monopolistic markets). There are some games people purchase regardless of what other people are saying. I realized this when I was a fan of the Call of Duty series. I adored Call of Duty Modern Warfare so I desired to purchase Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2. I did not enjoy Modern Warfare 2 so I did not purchase Modern Warfare 3 despite most critics giving it favorable reviews. I had that option.

What you seem to be advocating is that everyone should follow what your opinions and desires are because if they decide to do otherwise, it is a bad decision. What I am advocating for is to allow people to make their own decisions and the market will follow what decisions are preferred. If the correct information is available to provide consumers an opportunity to avoid being deceived by their purchase, then you have a fair market.

Okay this is probably the weirdest thing I've said about someone I never met but I really enjoy Austin's happy/surprised noises.

I dunno, he's just very.... expressive? effusive? I dunno, but I like it.

@finaldasa: Z and Z? when did the alphabet get two Zs? ;)

@lurkero: Publishers are not struggling to make money, I really don't know where you got that idea because most of them seemed to be doing just fine before they started implementing business practices like preorder exclusive bonuses.

I also never said that people should follow my opinion. I also never said preordering was inherently bad and that people shouldn't do it. I have very clearly advocated for advocacy. If people see something wrong with how a publisher is trying to market their game they can and should. There was a lot wrong with the Dues Ex preorder shenanigans and the fact that Square Enix has discontinued it should tell you that there were problems with it.

"If the correct information is available to provide consumers an opportunity to avoid being deceived by their purchase, then you have a fair market."

Where is this incorrect information that I'm spewing? Or am I part of this fair market as well?

I added one :D

I meant X.