Whatevs, at the end of the day, only one thing matters: The W.

"Jesus Christ, it's a competitive video game not a fucking dance. You do what you want to win, not follow the steps. If someone beats you with some 'lamer n00b tactics' or whatever it's your own damn fault for getting too caught up in the metagame. No plan survives contact with the enemy, and all's fair in love and war, so don't complain when someone deviates from your own expectations of strategy. Learn from it, prepare for it, don't be a pissy bitch about it. "

" @Jeffsekai said:

" @Supermarius said:

" @Jeffsekai said:

I'm fine with doing what ever it takes to win, I play Blanka in SSF4 so I know a think or two about being cheap and playing to win. But theres a huge difference in Winning and being the better player. I'd love to see someone who 6 pool Zerg rushes all the time play someone in a first to 5. He would get 1 win maybe 2 then he would get crushed because the other player would adjust and be ready for the mast troll.  Winning one Match with a 6 pool does not mean you are the better player, it's as simple as that. If he beats the same guy 5 times in a row with a 6 pool than yea hes better. But you can never tell who's the better player of one match.   It's like the youtube videos of Diago losing to Dan on XBL in SSF4 I can guarantee that Diago would not lose to that guy again if they played in a best 2 outta 3 (aka tournament formate) That's why in Starcraft 2 they always play First to 5 or 3 so that the BEST player will win not the guy who only gets wins of a few cheap tricks. Having strong fundamentals are what proves the stronger player and the only way to see that shine is by having a best 2 outta 3 or a first to 5. Nothing else will suffice.   Also, mad. "

Two-player competitive games allow for a person to win a match over another person by using a tricky strategy that is unexpected.  Winning through shenanigans is still winning and a truly good player should be able to adapt or respond to novel play. And really, at this point is a zerg rush that novel? If you dont prepare for a zerg rush when fighting zerg that seems like a mistake that your opponent would be silly NOT to take advantage of. "

If you prepare for a Zerg rush and they don't rush your fucked.  It's clear with what you said you don't play the game so stfu. I'm done with you. "

Could you possibly be a little more of an elitist jackass?  If they use beginner tactics and beat you with them no matter how skilled you are or perceive yourself to be, that doesn't give you an excuse to be a sore loser and insult the winner.  Give them tips on how to improve and beat your ass even harder next time.  Don't throw a fit in text form and send it via PM. "

" @Hailinel said:

" @Jeffsekai said:

" @Supermarius said:

" @Jeffsekai said:

I'm fine with doing what ever it takes to win, I play Blanka in SSF4 so I know a think or two about being cheap and playing to win. But theres a huge difference in Winning and being the better player. I'd love to see someone who 6 pool Zerg rushes all the time play someone in a first to 5. He would get 1 win maybe 2 then he would get crushed because the other player would adjust and be ready for the mast troll.  Winning one Match with a 6 pool does not mean you are the better player, it's as simple as that. If he beats the same guy 5 times in a row with a 6 pool than yea hes better. But you can never tell who's the better player of one match.   It's like the youtube videos of Diago losing to Dan on XBL in SSF4 I can guarantee that Diago would not lose to that guy again if they played in a best 2 outta 3 (aka tournament formate) That's why in Starcraft 2 they always play First to 5 or 3 so that the BEST player will win not the guy who only gets wins of a few cheap tricks. Having strong fundamentals are what proves the stronger player and the only way to see that shine is by having a best 2 outta 3 or a first to 5. Nothing else will suffice.   Also, mad. "

Two-player competitive games allow for a person to win a match over another person by using a tricky strategy that is unexpected.  Winning through shenanigans is still winning and a truly good player should be able to adapt or respond to novel play. And really, at this point is a zerg rush that novel? If you dont prepare for a zerg rush when fighting zerg that seems like a mistake that your opponent would be silly NOT to take advantage of. "

If you prepare for a Zerg rush and they don't rush your fucked.  It's clear with what you said you don't play the game so stfu. I'm done with you. "

Could you possibly be a little more of an elitist jackass?  If they use beginner tactics and beat you with them no matter how skilled you are or perceive yourself to be, that doesn't give you an excuse to be a sore loser and insult the winner.  Give them tips on how to improve and beat your ass even harder next time.  Don't throw a fit in text form and send it via PM. "

Are you fucking retarded bro, I haven't lost to a 6 pool in 1v1 I never said I have. A win is a win do what ever it takes. But if you want to sit there and tell me that 6 pooling takes skill you don;t know what the fuck you are talking about bro. Why would I waste my time "teaching" someone how to play if they 6 pool me.   Like I said before 6 pooling is basically trolling in SC2, why would I feed the troll.     EDIT: You know what, I fucking love how no one seems to be reading what im saying they just see me disagreeing and assume I'm some but hurt faggot who just lost to a 6 pool rofl.   Stay Free giantbomb. Stay Free. "

" @Jeffsekai said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @Jeffsekai said:

" @Supermarius said:

" @Jeffsekai said:

I'm fine with doing what ever it takes to win, I play Blanka in SSF4 so I know a think or two about being cheap and playing to win. But theres a huge difference in Winning and being the better player. I'd love to see someone who 6 pool Zerg rushes all the time play someone in a first to 5. He would get 1 win maybe 2 then he would get crushed because the other player would adjust and be ready for the mast troll.  Winning one Match with a 6 pool does not mean you are the better player, it's as simple as that. If he beats the same guy 5 times in a row with a 6 pool than yea hes better. But you can never tell who's the better player of one match.   It's like the youtube videos of Diago losing to Dan on XBL in SSF4 I can guarantee that Diago would not lose to that guy again if they played in a best 2 outta 3 (aka tournament formate) That's why in Starcraft 2 they always play First to 5 or 3 so that the BEST player will win not the guy who only gets wins of a few cheap tricks. Having strong fundamentals are what proves the stronger player and the only way to see that shine is by having a best 2 outta 3 or a first to 5. Nothing else will suffice.   Also, mad. "

Two-player competitive games allow for a person to win a match over another person by using a tricky strategy that is unexpected.  Winning through shenanigans is still winning and a truly good player should be able to adapt or respond to novel play. And really, at this point is a zerg rush that novel? If you dont prepare for a zerg rush when fighting zerg that seems like a mistake that your opponent would be silly NOT to take advantage of. "

If you prepare for a Zerg rush and they don't rush your fucked.  It's clear with what you said you don't play the game so stfu. I'm done with you. "

Could you possibly be a little more of an elitist jackass?  If they use beginner tactics and beat you with them no matter how skilled you are or perceive yourself to be, that doesn't give you an excuse to be a sore loser and insult the winner.  Give them tips on how to improve and beat your ass even harder next time.  Don't throw a fit in text form and send it via PM. "

Are you fucking retarded bro, I haven't lost to a 6 pool in 1v1 I never said I have. A win is a win do what ever it takes. But if you want to sit there and tell me that 6 pooling takes skill you don;t know what the fuck you are talking about bro. Why would I waste my time "teaching" someone how to play if they 6 pool me.   Like I said before 6 pooling is basically trolling in SC2, why would I feed the troll.     EDIT: You know what, I fucking love how no one seems to be reading what im saying they just see me disagreeing and assume I'm some but hurt faggot who just lost to a 6 pool rofl.   Stay Free giantbomb. Stay Free. "

Losing to a 6 pool has nothing to do with it.  It's the attitude of treating the winner like crap for using any tactic you deem inferior.  I don't need to be a Starcraft player to know that the attitude you're endorsing is incredibly rude. "

" @Hailinel: Losing to a 6 pool have everything to do with it, thats what I'm talking about here nothing more and nothing less. Stop putting words in my mouth bro. "

 I'm saying if he wins with a 6 pool Zerg rush in Silver  league yea hes a fuckin scrub.

" @Jeffsekai said:

" @Hailinel: Losing to a 6 pool have everything to do with it, thats what I'm talking about here nothing more and nothing less. Stop putting words in my mouth bro. "

Earlier, you said:

 I'm saying if he wins with a 6 pool Zerg rush in Silver  league yea hes a fuckin scrub.

  He wins, therefore he's a scrub?  Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. "

" @Jeffsekai:   6 pooling has nothing to do with my argument.  My argument is that you endorse being a jackass to people that beat you.  The quote I cited is merely evidence of that regardless of the tactic you're talking about. "

" @Jeffsekai:   Understand what?  That you endorse being a jackass to someone that beats you with "inferior" tactics?  Because that's all you've really proven. "

Damn people take video games way too seriously. GL HB

Well, of @goodwood said:

" Damn people take video games way too seriously. GL HB "

"If you prepare for a Zerg rush and they don't rush your fucked.  It's clear with what you said you don't play the game so stfu. I'm done with you. "

" @Supermarius said:

" @Jeffsekai said:

I'm fine with doing what ever it takes to win, I play Blanka in SSF4 so I know a think or two about being cheap and playing to win. But theres a huge difference in Winning and being the better player. I'd love to see someone who 6 pool Zerg rushes all the time play someone in a first to 5. He would get 1 win maybe 2 then he would get crushed because the other player would adjust and be ready for the mast troll.  Winning one Match with a 6 pool does not mean you are the better player, it's as simple as that. If he beats the same guy 5 times in a row with a 6 pool than yea hes better. But you can never tell who's the better player of one match.   It's like the youtube videos of Diago losing to Dan on XBL in SSF4 I can guarantee that Diago would not lose to that guy again if they played in a best 2 outta 3 (aka tournament formate) That's why in Starcraft 2 they always play First to 5 or 3 so that the BEST player will win not the guy who only gets wins of a few cheap tricks. Having strong fundamentals are what proves the stronger player and the only way to see that shine is by having a best 2 outta 3 or a first to 5. Nothing else will suffice.   Also, mad. "

Two-player competitive games allow for a person to win a match over another person by using a tricky strategy that is unexpected.  Winning through shenanigans is still winning and a truly good player should be able to adapt or respond to novel play. And really, at this point is a zerg rush that novel? If you dont prepare for a zerg rush when fighting zerg that seems like a mistake that your opponent would be silly NOT to take advantage of. "

If you prepare for a Zerg rush and they don't rush your fucked.  It's clear with what you said you don't play the game so stfu. I'm done with you. "

As long as you are not cheating, there is nothing wrong with playing to win.  You use every tactic you can to win the game within the confines of the rules.  Good job.  
 
If they were playing the Zerg, they had to have expected the rush.  If they didn't then they are the noob. 

" @Icemael: @Hailinel:  It takes 0 skill to win with a 6 pool zerg rush. But it takes a fair amount of preparation to defend against it and a crazy early scout (which in Silver league no one will do)  "

" @Jeffsekai:   Understand what?  That you endorse being a jackass to someone that beats you with "inferior" tactics?  Because that's all you've really proven. "

i try and come away with a loss with the thought of 'what did i do wrong' i have had a lot of cheese fights (a 3 warp gate build on my base right from the start) but i always learn alittle from each loss

I'm just gonna leave this here... 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMdDmbpmIRw    

" I'm just gonna leave this here...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMdDmbpmIRw     "

It is true though, Terran are a little OP at the moment.. but not sure if I agree with the h to the usky, husky hating at the end :/  Husky & HD are the amazing casters

Haters gonna hate.

If its the game, it ain't cheap.  
So quit your bitchin and play.

My stance on this is that if you have to 6 pool to win, you are either a noob or you need to read up on some other strategies. The occasional 6 pool is fine. It's when you do it every single game that just becomes annoying.
 
Now having said that, I have only been beaten by a 6pool early in beta. After that I started blocking my choke every time against Zerg.

sc2 is for babies 

" @Jeffsekai said:

" @Bucketdeth: Okay this is hard to understand sometimes I know but bare with me, just because you won a game dosn't mean you are better than the other player. Beat someone in a first to 5 and then they won't have anything to say.  Also, from the sounds of it....are you 6 pooling? if so stop that shit right now you are not good at all if that is how you get your wins.  There was a guy Orb (hes a "pro SC2 player) he seemed to be getting a lot of exposer during the beta and one of my fav things he would always say is that a good player will always push for a heavy micro/macro game not an early on rush. Why don't you start playing legit then make a thread about how awesome you are. "

 Yeah, Bucket! Listen to the guy who comes into every thread criticizing the TS and seldom has anything constructive or positive to say!    This is on par with saying picking Ken was cheap in SFIV or using a grenade launcher build was cheap in MW2. There will always be this sort of argument for any competitive game "Such and such is so cheesy, it takes no skill! Lrn2play the way I want you to play!"   These whiners don't care about you, they just want to try and impose their opinions on others. Fuck em. Play how you want to play. "

" @Symphony said:

" @Jeffsekai said:

" @Bucketdeth: Okay this is hard to understand sometimes I know but bare with me, just because you won a game dosn't mean you are better than the other player. Beat someone in a first to 5 and then they won't have anything to say.  Also, from the sounds of it....are you 6 pooling? if so stop that shit right now you are not good at all if that is how you get your wins.  There was a guy Orb (hes a "pro SC2 player) he seemed to be getting a lot of exposer during the beta and one of my fav things he would always say is that a good player will always push for a heavy micro/macro game not an early on rush. Why don't you start playing legit then make a thread about how awesome you are. "

 Yeah, Bucket! Listen to the guy who comes into every thread criticizing the TS and seldom has anything constructive or positive to say!    This is on par with saying picking Ken was cheap in SFIV or using a grenade launcher build was cheap in MW2. There will always be this sort of argument for any competitive game "Such and such is so cheesy, it takes no skill! Lrn2play the way I want you to play!"   These whiners don't care about you, they just want to try and impose their opinions on others. Fuck em. Play how you want to play. "

I didn't even respond to that post he made, I never 6 pool ever and I rarely rush but when I do it usually gets me an easy win. Jeffsekai comes off as an elitist turd and I don't really care for his comments, that doesn't meen I ignored him because some of the advice he gave was 100% true and you should never rely on just one tactic, but the way he puts every single comment comes off as captain douche bag and I don't see the point in acting like a douche bag on a gaming forum, your not gaining anything but maybe a twenty foot E-Peen. "

" Jesus Christ, it's a competitive video game not a fucking dance. You do what you want to win, not follow the steps. If someone beats you with some 'lamer n00b tactics' or whatever it's your own damn fault for getting too caught up in the metagame. No plan survives contact with the enemy, and all's fair in love and war, so don't complain when someone deviates from your own expectations of strategy. Learn from it, prepare for it, don't be a pissy bitch about it. "

ReTarDedFisHy thought you meant that YOU say "l2p" to the guy "even though you won".  
As in, being a total douche and telling your opponent that he was a terrible player and that he should learn to play.  
ReTarDedFisHy thought it was funny and clicked on this only to find out that ReTarDedFisHy is most likely alone in the douche category. 
 
To answer the topic if someone says that to the FisH he would simply reply with "QQ, your tears are so tasty. Cry more."

Ok, so you're saying that a 6pool is fine because the win matters, right?
 
Well, not exactly.
 
Let me tell you an example.
 
You just learned to 6pool. You love it. You beat every player in your bronze league, and you can get 10 wins a day in 90 minutes. 
You get into a game, you win. You get into another one, you win again, and again and again.
 
You get promoted to silver league! You click the "find match"button, hoping for more easy wins. You beat the guy, and he ragequits.
Then you play again. And you win.
 
Then you play another game, but this time, you lose. The guy barely held it, but then he just outmacro'ed you. You think to
yourself  "fine, one loss, whatever". You go into another game, you win it. Then another one, and the next one, and the next one as well.
Then - no big deal - you lose a game. 
You just got promoted to gold league!
 
And this is where things start getting different. 
 
You go into a match, attempt a 6pool, but the guys smashes you. He didn't even scout your 6pool, but it wasn't even close. 
You think to yourself  "no big deal, I'll make it up later".
 
But the next match is the same. The guy easily held your rush off, and steamrolls you one handed. You go into the next match, you lose.
Then the next one too. Then the next one you win, but it doesn't matter; your six next matches are 3 minute losses.
 
And this is the point that every "cheeser" meets. Be it cannon rushing, 6pool or worker rush: you finally get to a point when your strategy doesn't work
anymore, and you've just realised that you're surrounded by players far better than you, who patiently trained their macro skills and build orders for the past
4 weeks, while you were using a strategy that's completely useless now. You opponents are happy to see you six pool (hey, a free win!), and you just realised
that you've spent a month of your life on a game that you can't even play effectively on mid- to top level.
 
Then you develop hatred for games, and become the next Bobby Kotick.

i don't run into many douchebags.  but i remember a game where i contained his front and dropped on his mineral line.  then just overwhelmed him with barracks units since i had em upgraded fairly well.  so there was no reason to attack with anything higher than marine/marauder at that point.  the dude flipped.  so each time he said something i just replied with "but i won." i didn't cheese or anything, but just won with macro.
 
or one team game where i couldn't hold off two guys at once (though i damn well tried!).  my account is DexterMorgan, so i was greeted with "great show, shit player!!"  boo, i say

Why is this topic back?

" @Jeffsekai: So basically you think he sucks and he doesn't deserve to win just because you don't like rushes?  Winning is winning bro.  I don't like it when in Halo: Reach someone rushes for rocket launcher at the beginning of the map, but by God given the chance I am going to do the same thing.  I suppose my rant can be summed up into this:  Y U Jelly? "

I've gotten a few messages like this back when I played Street Fighter. I don't play Starcraft online, but it's the same philosophy- if it's in the game, it ain't cheap, and if you lost, it's your own fault for not knowing how to defend against the strategy. I love getting hate messages.

A win is a win in my book.  And this is coming from being beaten many times in fighter games where there's always that one cheap character that you can just press random kick or punch buttons and move the joystick around in a random pattern and end up winning without any skill.  A truly skilled player doesn't complain about losing, but finds ways to battle the 'lucky' and 'skill-less' players.

 LEARN TO PLAY NOOB  

I hate this bs... winning is winning?? nobody said anything about winning, if you badly need an ego then sure w/e works for you... but giving a status of "granted" to know how to play and winning is ridiculous.  
 
Doing cheese tactics is noob in that 1. they take no skill(or little) to pull off, especially macro, 6 pool takes a little bit of micro as opposed to a canon rush.  2. they are reliant on luck, be it that the other person scouts your canons or 6 pool, or that he generally know how to deal with it, which you won't know until you do it. Or it could work because the other guy early expoes, but again... luck.  
 
Just to clarify that last one, because theres a plague of low IQ going around, when your blind cheesing and run into a build you can win your being lucky, its different to scout the early expo and REACT to it, regardless of what race you are.  
 
When your up there, semi pro and all, or somehow playing multiple rounds with the same guy, and he expects you to fast expand, or w/e, sure doing a cheese is acceptable, because its less about luck and more about setting up for  psychological warfare. Another example is to 6 pool the first game just to scare him from early expanding, and then going on to early expand the next 2 games when he will be turtling up... scared. 
  
So l2p is right, they have a right to be angry since some random blue collar(blue collar because its uncreative and does not involve adaptation) worker just comes and does the same thing over and over again in games. 

A good example would be in a poker, A player just going all in, every hand. Now, we all know if the player gets lucky he can win, even if he is playing against really good players, he can still win, based on luck.