So, I have no problem distancing myself from killing animals in a video game and the thought of killing animals in real life. I doubt I could take an animal's life in real life (unless it meant that I were to die) but I have no problem sucking the soul out of goats in order to fill up my soul gems.

However, at one point in my travels, somewhere near Riften, I was walking by a fort and I was attacked by some bandits because I got too close. After killing a bunch of the bandits, I decided to check the place out, namely because I my axe melted through the bandits like butter. Once inside the fort, I was horrified to see that it was a dog fighting/gambling operation. The walls were covered in a lot of blood, there were wolves locked in cages, the guards were betting on outcomes of a fight between two wolves in a large cage in a pit and the dogs that would not aggro on the bandits were called "pit wolves." In a blinding rage, I slaughtered every bandit in the place and put the wolves down out of a sense of mercy.

For some reason, this event has stuck with me more than any other event in Skyrim. On one hand, I hate the developers for including something like this in the game, but on the other hand, it made me realize how much I'm against the cruelty of animals. I've always known that cruelty to animals is wrong, of course, but it was always something that happened well away from me and my life.

Do you think any of the developers set out with making this particular dungeon with any sort of thought behind saying something on the issue of cruelty to animals? Did anyone feel affected by this place?

Signing off to go play fetch with my Dalmatian.

Just a vidya game dude. I'm more worried that you don't seem to have the same compassions for humans in games.

Killing people are ok, but animals are wrong?

I'm with SamFo on this, its strange people cannot be bothered by murdering human(oid)s but animals can make them think for a second.
 
And animal cruelty is always a subject that makes me swallow when it is mentioned or implied.
Same for abuse and such, its mostly a natural human reaction, I think!

I haven't actually seen this place in Skyrim yet, but it sounds kinda icky since animal cruelty is one of my least favorite things - but I'm also intrigued since it's a topic I don't see much of in games so I'll go explore!

I do hope there's a quest line to somehow free the wolves though since killing them out of my own sense of "AI mercy" seems wasted; of course by freeing them I'd just end up randomly killing them in the wild anyway.

Just a vidya game dude. I'm more worried that you don't seem to have the same compassions for humans in games.

I've found it kind of hard to care about the animals in Skyrim. I really wanted to have a dog, but the fucker just wouldn't stop barking, so I told him to go home. Thing is, I didn't have a home at the time, so I have no idea where he went. LOL. I also wanted to have a horse, but I'm pretty sure he got stuck in the terrain of a mountain somewhere or died. Either way, he was a waste of 1000 septims, so good riddance. The only animals in the game that are worth anything are mammoths.

I don't think Bethesda have the capacity to hide anything under metaphors like that.

WOW! Id hate to see how you would feel with the Greasle Pit fights in Dues EX Invisble war....that thing braught good money......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXVS8wqMTNc

ITT: Insensitive assholes with the, "it's just a game," argument. 
 
@KimChi4U: I haven't played Skyrim, but that is a good thing that a situation can be so well realized that you start thinking about your your stance on moral issues and let that dictate your actions.

@BoG said:

@SamFo said:

Just a vidya game dude. I'm more worried that you don't seem to have the same compassions for humans in games.

Yeah, it's a bit disconcerting that your axe can cut through humans like butter, yet you're shocked by a virtual dog fighting ring. Were you not concerned by the equally poor treatment of vampires? I don't mean to make a joke of the situation, animal cruelty is wrong, but if you're concerned with animal violence in video games, why not human violence?

Those humans made the (digital) choice to grab a sword and try to kill you though, the dogs are being trained to kill each other against their will.

I found a similar thing near Whiterun but it was a Rat fighting ring. Anyway, I voice the sentiment of everyone else, killing people OK, killing animals no.

@BoG said:

Yeah, it's a bit disconcerting that your axe can cut through humans like butter, yet you're shocked by a virtual dog fighting ring. Were you not concerned by the equally poor treatment of vampires? I don't mean to make a joke of the situation, animal cruelty is wrong, but if you're concerned with animal violence in video games, why not human violence?

I dunno, I can kind of understand the rationale behind it which is humans have the ability to be good or evil whereas animals can only follow their instincts. i.e. when a wolf attacks you in Skyrim, it's out of instinct, not out of malice like the human enemies in the game. So in that sense I guess I would feel more compassion toward an animal that attacked me because that was its instinct versus some bandit or thief who chose to attack me out of malice, greed, anger, etc.

Like the people the animals are just lines of code wrapped up in 3d meshes with textures.

Animal lovers are weird.

I bricked a squirrel once to put it out of it's misery. It was awful. The neighborhood cat had slashed it's throat but left it alive, thrashing around by the curb. I picked up the closest heaviest thing I could find, a cinder brick, and chucked it as hard as I could at the squirrel's head, hoping to speed up the inevitable. It took two hits before it stopped moving. I realized then that I could never go hunting.

occupy riften

@Napalm said:

ITT: Insensitive assholes with the, "it's just a game," argument.

@KimChi4U: I haven't played Skyrim, but that is a good thing that a situation can be so well realized that you start thinking about your your stance on moral issues and let that dictate your actions.

ITT: People who don't get emotionally attached to video games*

i got tired of my horse attacking stuff with me so i turned around and murdered it. and i will say it was a good decision. fuck that horse, he tried to steal my kills.

@No0b0rAmA said:

Killing people are ok, but animals are wrong?

Yes. But to the OP, do you eat meat?

Still just the same, there is no animal crueler than a human being, and in the words of Paxton Fettel regarding cruel and evil humans "They need to die, They all deserve to die'. Maybe when we act better than how we (mostly incorrectly by attaching human motivations) perceive animals, is when we can differentiate ourselves as humans. And yea, video games are an idealization of our experiential universe

@Napalm said:

ITT: Insensitive assholes with the, "it's just a game," argument.

@KimChi4U: I haven't played Skyrim, but that is a good thing that a situation can be so well realized that you start thinking about your your stance on moral issues and let that dictate your actions.

ITT: People who don't get emotionally attached to video games*

So, you have no problem killing people, but animals keep you awake at night? WTF OP?!

@Jrinswand: Somebody has to make that mod. Mammoth companion. I want one. I want one so much.

@Napalm said:

@emergency said:

@Napalm said:

ITT: Insensitive assholes with the, "it's just a game," argument.

@KimChi4U: I haven't played Skyrim, but that is a good thing that a situation can be so well realized that you start thinking about your your stance on moral issues and let that dictate your actions.

ITT: People who don't get emotionally attached to video games*

You've never had an emotional connection in a videogame? You must live one sad life.

I sure do.

@KimChi4U said:

So, I have no problem distancing myself from killing animals in a video game and the thought of killing animals in real life. I doubt I could take an animal's life in real life (unless it meant that I were to die) but I have no problem sucking the soul out of goats in order to fill up my soul gems.

However, at one point in my travels, somewhere near Riften, I was walking by a fort and I was attacked by some bandits because I got too close. After killing a bunch of the bandits, I decided to check the place out, namely because I my axe melted through the bandits like butter. Once inside the fort, I was horrified to see that it was a dog fighting/gambling operation. The walls were covered in a lot of blood, there were wolves locked in cages, the guards were betting on outcomes of a fight between two wolves in a large cage in a pit and the dogs that would not aggro on the bandits were called "pit wolves." In a blinding rage, I slaughtered every bandit in the place and put the wolves down out of a sense of mercy.

For some reason, this event has stuck with me more than any other event in Skyrim. On one hand, I hate the developers for including something like this in the game, but on the other hand, it made me realize how much I'm against the cruelty of animals. I've always known that cruelty to animals is wrong, of course, but it was always something that happened well away from me and my life.

Do you think any of the developers set out with making this particular dungeon with any sort of thought behind saying something on the issue of cruelty to animals? Did anyone feel affected by this place?

Signing off to go play fetch with my Dalmatian.

I lol'd

I think its more of a setpiece to show the player what horrible people the bandits are, make you want to kill them.

Was one of the bandits' name Michael Vick, did you notice?

Was this a serious post? I mean, seriously? Of all the things to be offended by in video games over the years...dog fights in Skyrim? BTW, you need to go ahead and hate on the devs of Mass Effect 2 also (alien dogs are people too), not to mention Super Mario who thinks nothing of ripping the epidermis off of a poor tanooki, the better to kill turtles with my dear:

Whats next? a hippy post about the spriggans?

@BoG said:

@SamFo said:

Just a vidya game dude. I'm more worried that you don't seem to have the same compassions for humans in games.

Yeah, it's a bit disconcerting that your axe can cut through humans like butter, yet you're shocked by a virtual dog fighting ring. Were you not concerned by the equally poor treatment of vampires? I don't mean to make a joke of the situation, animal cruelty is wrong, but if you're concerned with animal violence in video games, why not human violence?

Those humans made the (digital) choice to grab a sword and try to kill you though, the dogs are being trained to kill each other against their will.

This is a general desensitization issue, I think. Even under the auspices of hunting to get pelts and whatnot, I have a very hard time killing animals in video games unless they're coming after me -- I also have a very hard time seeing animals being hurt in movies, etc... I think a lot of this comes from just not being used to seeing violence against animals as much as we see violence against humanoid creatures in video games. You could even maybe call it a bit of a guilt thing -- we all eat meat, but often don't really want to know how it makes it to the store.

The example of this that has stuck with me the most over the years is a montage of scenes in the movie The Thin Red Line. Loads of dudes being shot, etc... is juxtaposed with a baby bird writhing around on the ground, obviously wounded or stepped on. The men being shot bothered me far less than the images of the bird. I think it has a lot more to do with shock value and what you're used to seeing as opposed to what you're not used to seeing than it does about valuing human life, etc...

I haven't come across this dungeon yet, but kind've hope I don't. I sure won't go looking for it.

Whats next? a hippy post about the spriggans?

VIDEO GAMES

ITT: Insensitive assholes with the, "it's just a game," argument. 
 
@KimChi4U: I haven't played Skyrim, but that is a good thing that a situation can be so well realized that you start thinking about your your stance on moral issues and let that dictate your actions.

How else am I going to get my fur coat and matching boots?

Cruelty to animals is a horrible thing in reality. Human cruelty to fellow humans is a horrible thing as well.

Both are topics covered by the game...with subtopics like sexism, racism, religious persecution, homosexuality, molestation, rape, sexual assault, torture, genocide, etc. Hell, even poaching specifically is addressed by just about every "hunter" you come across.

Should it garner an emotional response from you? Sure. Just as any of those other things might be unsettling, like Sapphire's life story for example.

But as a rationally thinking adult you should also be able to distinguish reality from fiction and take it as nothing more than a game touching on a difficult subject. Your anger at the developers for including that specific topic is misplaced at best.

@SamFo said:

Just a vidya game dude. I'm more worried that you don't seem to have the same compassions for humans in games.

That is sage advice there.

@Napalm said:

@emergency said:

@Napalm said:

ITT: Insensitive assholes with the, "it's just a game," argument.

@KimChi4U: I haven't played Skyrim, but that is a good thing that a situation can be so well realized that you start thinking about your your stance on moral issues and let that dictate your actions.

ITT: People who don't get emotionally attached to video games*

You've never had an emotional connection in a videogame? You must live one sad life.

ITT: People that don't understand that Skyrim is just a bunch of 1's and 0's, nothing more, nothing less.

@No0b0rAmA said:

Killing people are ok, but animals are wrong?

I think that the game is well made if it makes you feel that, or maybe you just really hate animal cruelty in any form. But stuff like this bothers me a lot in real life, cruelty to anything.

Virtual cruelty, I probably can't complain about seeing as I've cut down innumerable virtual dudes or anything that moves in games. And I guess it might affect me if I'm immersed in the game or if it's horrific and seems to be there for no reason other than to shock.

What StaticFalconar said.

Bethesda put that dog fighting ring there to make you feel aggression towards the bandits - to tug at your emotions and bring you deeper into the game world. The idea is to allow you to feel morally superior by destroying their den. Alternatively you have the choice to leave it there and let them do their thing.

@StaticFalconar said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

@BoG said:

@SamFo said:

Just a vidya game dude. I'm more worried that you don't seem to have the same compassions for humans in games.

Yeah, it's a bit disconcerting that your axe can cut through humans like butter, yet you're shocked by a virtual dog fighting ring. Were you not concerned by the equally poor treatment of vampires? I don't mean to make a joke of the situation, animal cruelty is wrong, but if you're concerned with animal violence in video games, why not human violence?

Those humans made the (digital) choice to grab a sword and try to kill you though, the dogs are being trained to kill each other against their will.

That is until you look around and read the diaries of the bandits. See, ever since they were little kids, they wanted to be a simple blacksmith or merchant. However, with an alcoholic father and a whore of a mother their family name was ruined. No one would give them an apprenticeship much less a loan to start his own business. Despondent by this, he decided to join the local street gangs as he realized the life of crime was the only way he would survive in this world. Just like an animal must hunt out of his natural instinct for survival, this bandit must turn to a life of violence to survive. In fact, he was good at it. So good, in fact that he eventually was able to expand and have his own fort. Gambling and dog fighting rings where put in place to generate more revenue, but that was done to speed up his plan. For you see, that bandit was saving up his money actually. He knows, he cannot live the bandit life forever, so he planned to one day quit with his savings and be a merchant finally. The calm, simple life he had been denied his entire life; one he must literally kill for to have. Honestly, that bandit just didn't have the same urge to kill any more. Instead of volunteering to go to raiding parties, he just offered to defend the fort and make his extra money gambling, getting just one gold coin closer to his retirement. Then one day, the lone wanderer came by his fort. It was the bandit's duty to defend his fort, if even to just raise his sword to frighten off the attacker. All the lone wanderer had to do was turn around, and no lives would be lost that day. The lone wanderer, however thought differently as he welded the butter melting axe. TL:DR - And so concludes the life of the bandit. Wanting a simple life, he was denied through his upbringing in a broken home and overly racist universe. His will to live made him kill, but he always did plan to one day live the simple non-violent life. That was until he met the most cold hearted mutherfucker in the world. The dragon slayer to some, the petulant thief to others. It didn't matter to the lone wanderer, as every bounty just meant more dead bounty hunters, and as time passed, the decaying bones of dragons mounted through out the world. Curious thing then, that lone wanderer started to actually feel remorse when he stumbled upon a small dog fighting ring.

:'O

Great motivation to totally fuck those dudes up.

I actually tried several times to let dogs or wolves that are in cages go but they always end up attacking me. :(

When I found the wolves caged up at this place, my first thought was HAAAAYYY FREE SOULS!

Seriously, though.... they were pixelated doggies, and you murdered them. Murderer.

You talk about cutting bandits like butter, and you get saddened by a dog-fighting pit?

Sicko.

What about dragons ? Are considered to be animals ? They talk and can communicate with creatures different from their own kind,

I wonder if you would be more affected if it had been humans and not dogs. 
 
From your writing, I imagine you care a lot more about animal cruelty than human. 
 
I mean, you could have been this affected by any of the many religious and racial persecutions in the game, some dudes in Riften basically say they are going to go that that Dark Elf girl's house in the middle of the night to rape and/or murder her because she's a different race and therefore must be a spy. Or the Thalmor abducting people indiscriminately to torture and murder as they see fit. One quest requires you to find an innocent person and sacrifice them to one of the gods to gain their attention.
 
There's a million other similar examples where humans are being forced to do evil things against their wills, or having terrible things done to them. I'm not trying to invalidate your observations though, Its great that you can be moved by something and realize just how wrong animal cruelty is. I am merely making an interesting observation about you, and really most humans. I suppose animals are viewed as lesser creatures, and we should protect them perhaps. Though they're also our food, and an animal wouldn't hesitate to kill one of us to survive. 
 
Anyways, interesting.

I actually think that's kind of awesome. Finding out a random bandit camp is a dog fighting ring is the kind of details that makes this game so great.

Polygons bro

As far as the whole animal cruelty thing goes, I love animals. More than most humans, really. But it's just a game, man. I had to kill a bandit's dog at one point during a quest, which made me feel kind of bad but I didn't have a break down over it. I don't think Bethesda was trying to make any kind of statement here. It's simply a cool touch added to the world. I don't think any of the developers are saying "dog fighting is cool, man!"

animals are gay
 
except for cats
 
cats are not gay