@rebgav said:
@MuttersomeTaxicab said:
@rebgav said:
@MuttersomeTaxicab said:
Again, I'm just as curious as anyone else to see the game, but if you're going to even touch on a topic like rape, you'd better fucking be able to do it in a mature, reasonable manner. Given the way Rosenberg has been talking about the game, it's completely reasonable to object to the idea that the developers are in any way equipped to handle that scene responsibly.
Yes, let's not give them the opportunity to present the scene in context and approach it with an open mind, let's judge it based on the executive producer's ability to communicate the idea because that's the important thing. Why are you bothering to attempt to justify your pre-judgement of the game? Let your prejudice speak for itself, the window-dressing around it isn't adding anything to your argument.
On release, this will be a good game or a bad game and all of the pathetic posturing and pointless drama will be exposed as an idiotic waste of time and effort either way. But let's not miss the opportunity to throw a few more insults, slurs and diminishing remarks in the meantime, there's only 8 months left to fill!
1. Look at the title of this thread. See how it's specifically asking if anyone would be this upset if Lara was a man? The main point of what I'm saying is that there is reasonable cause to be concerned with the gender politics in this game. If, in the next 3rd-person action game with a male protagonist with survivalist undertones is basically Deliverance: The Game, replete with rape scene, I'll eat my hat. But it won't. Because, with men, the threat of murder is enough, but not enough for a female protagonist.
2. At no point have I roundly condemned the game itself. My critique has largely been based on the information that Crystal Dynamics is choosing to release about the game, and how the handling of that information isn't just damaging to the reputation of what could be an interesting game, but also makes the games industry itself look like a collective of juvenile asshats.
3. It absolutely blows my mind that you've committed yourself so wholly to defending this game that, even when I'm simply offering a critique of where this thing seems to be going, and how it's evidence of other execrable trends in the industry, you're taking umbrage and presuming that I'm prejudiced against it. Against what? Sexism? Sure. Absolutely. Aren't you?
I have no argument with the idea that this would be a different game if it were a male character's story, hopefully that is the case otherwise what is the point of Lara being a woman? If you could hot-swap her with Nathan Drake then why bother in the first place? That's fine.
I am not committed to defending the game so much as observing that the game doesn't look offensive and that the arguments seem to be about knee-jerk reactions, overstatements of aesthetic concerns and general self-feeding internet drama.
When I used the word "prejudice" I meant in the context of pre-judgement, I feel that I specified that in the previous sentence but I'm sorry if that was not clear, that's on me.
I think that the combination of the torture-porn label, the complaints about Lara vocalizing pain, and the Kotaku interview mentioning the rape scene are a potent concoction which make it easy to craft ugly arguments about this game. I don't think that any of the drama is actually justified based on what has been shown so far. I have no problem with the idea of the developer portraying an attempted rape, I don't see a single convincing reason as to why they should not try to do so. If the game turns out to be a horrible, exploitative, mean-spirited anti-feminist screed I'll be happy to take the developer to task based on first-hand experience of the game itself. I think that all of the chest-beating and posturing from allegedly feminist side of the debate has been unwarranted, unjustified and it's getting to be a little bit embarrassing and disgusting. Smacks of a witch-hunt.
A lot of the feminist critique is borne from the feeling that video games have very few avenues for reasonable female representation. I get the feeling that much of the groundswell of arguments is a result of misgivings that have been building for a long while. This happens to come along at the same time as that FemFreq attack, the GoW/rape culture discussion at Kotaku and the blowup over the Hitman trailer (and other stuff, I'm sure) so you're probably right that some of the upset is not explicitly directed at the game itself as much as the entrenched attitudes of an entire industry that refuses to see women outside of very specifically designed stereotypes. For me, in a lot of ways, the upset is justified, since it's a debate that probably should have been going on for a while. Plus, there's probably some echoes of the back and forth that happened with Metroid: Other M, where Samus was suddenly deflated as one of the few "strong female" leads.
For me, I'm still fascinated to see what comes out. I imagine Crystal Dynamics is watching the general uproar with some interest (or at least I hope so.) My involvement in this thread stemmed initially from seeing one of the most absurd "counter arguments" about gender equality that, yeah, was totally impacted by Rosenberg's comments. I think, also, a lot of people are being critical of this re-launch, because if Crystal Dynamics actually puts together a well-realized female protagonist that doesn't rely on reinforcing the same tired cultural power struggles that have always existed within the industry, well, there's a lot of potential to that. There's a lot of weight behind that concept, and it's probably something that more than a few people would love to see.
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