Normally this refers to works of literature. I'm not sure how many games have been narrated at all, much less that have unreliable narrators. The closest example I can think of is Atlas in Bioshock.
Atlas is not a narrator at all - he is a character with whom you communicate. As is Glados. They are used as narrative devices, but so is potentially any character you come across in a game. I have to say that this concept, or at least those two games listed in it, is entirely bogus.
I thought that Atlas might be arguable as a narrator because he tells you about the world of Rapture, his family, etc. But on reflection, I have to agree with Alex_V. Atlas is not a narrator.
There are classical narrators in games--the recent Penny Arcade game comes to mind--and so there is the potential for them to unreliable. The concept probably should stay, awaiting either a game that uses it or someone willing to come up with an actual instance of it.
"There are classical narrators in games--the recent Penny Arcade game comes to mind--and so there is the potential for them to unreliable. The concept probably should stay, awaiting either a game that uses it or someone willing to come up with an actual instance of it."
I added the narrator from the awful The Bard's Tale on the PS2/Xbox. While not working to undermine you directly (like a Glados), he constantly makes fun of you and picks on the protagonist. That's about the closest thing I've seen in recent games.
Bioshock and Far Cry apply. Though neither is truly a narrator, their presence throughout the majority of the game qualifies them as such for the purposes of this concept.
i think this idea is flawed and don't like this concept. Atlas is not a narrator and the description for the concept states that otacon is one? he is not a narrator as well he is taking with snake. So i think this is just a bad concept
"Atlas is not a narrator at all - he is a character with whom you communicate. As is Glados. They are used as narrative devices, but so is potentially any character you come across in a game. I have to say that this concept, or at least those two games listed in it, is entirely bogus. "
In literature, characters can be narrators. You never ONCE say a word to either GLaDOS or Atlas in either game. They however speak to you and guide your actions. THEY ARE NARRATORS.
"Atlas is not a narrator at all - he is a character with whom you communicate. As is Glados. They are used as narrative devices, but so is potentially any character you come across in a game. I have to say that this concept, or at least those two games listed in it, is entirely bogus. "
In literature, characters can be narrators. You never ONCE say a word to either GLaDOS or Atlas in either game. They however speak to you and guide your actions. THEY ARE NARRATORS."
That is so not what you define as a narrator, by your lgic if a character has a monologue in a movie he inmediately is a narrator.
"No. By my logic, a character whose role is guiding you through the story is a narrator. And by that logic, both Atlas and GLaDOS are narrators. "
Your logic is flawed, and your definition of a narrator fits no existing definition in the slightest. Is Alyx a narrator in the Half-Life episodes? She is essentially no different to either Atlas or GlaDOS, but she is with you the whole time. (Please don't start trying to say that she is :) )
"With you" and "guiding you" are not one in the same. Atlas and GLaDOS, on the other hand are disembodied voices who help give your actions context and meaning. Of course this definition doesn't fit with the traditional definition of narrator, video games are not a traditional medium!
""With you" and "guiding you" are not one in the same. Atlas and GLaDOS, on the other hand are disembodied voices who help give your actions context and meaning. Of course this definition doesn't fit with the traditional definition of narrator, video games are not a traditional medium! "
Disembodied voices? Ah so if Alyx was a ghost she would be a narrator? What if she jsut ran really ahead of you and you only heard her shouting directions? First of all GladOS HAS a body and by your logic any character with telepathic abilities qualifies as well, understand that its not so much as to wherethe character is physically it is more about to who he narrator is talking to and through which context he is.
No, throughout what percentage of the Half-Life games she's involved in does Alyx provide backstory, context, or motivation for your actions? Approximately 10 (If you want to talk about a 'narrator' in the Half-Life series, the GMan makes way more sense) Whereas Atlas and GLaDOS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME till near the end of it are telling you what's happening.
Just because Atlas and GLaDOS are your primary antagonists, DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN'T be narrators. They are narrators by virtue of the role they serve until you find them.
When you approach that creepy "BABY IN ME! BABY IN ME!" chick in front of the Kashmir Restaurant and Atlas pipes up: "Adam changed everything. Mothers strangling babies in cribs, friends butcherin' one-another, the whole place went to hell." HE IS NARRATING, THAT MAKES HIM A NARRATOR. The fact that he is LYING TO YOU throughout most of the game, and trying to MANIPULATE YOU means he is an UNRELIABLE NARRATOR.
I didn't think I would have to break it down as basic as this, but it seems people on this thread are simply testing me to see if I've actually played the games I'm discussing.
"No, throughout what percentage of the Half-Life games she's involved in does Alyx provide backstory, context, or motivation for your actions? Approximately 10 (If you want to talk about a 'narrator' in the Half-Life series, the GMan makes way more sense) Whereas Atlas and GLaDOS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME till near the end of it are telling you what's happening.
Just because Atlas and GLaDOS are your primary antagonists, DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN'T be narrators. They are narrators by virtue of the role they serve until you find them.
When you approach that creepy "BABY IN ME! BABY IN ME!" chick in front of the Kashmir Restaurant and Atlas pipes up: "Adam changed everything. Mothers strangling babies in cribs, friends butcherin' one-another, the whole place went to hell." HE IS NARRATING, THAT MAKES HIM A NARRATOR. The fact that he is LYING TO YOU throughout most of the game, and trying to MANIPULATE YOU means he is an UNRELIABLE NARRATOR.
I didn't think I would have to break it down as basic as this, but it seems people on this thread are simply testing me to see if I've actually played the games I'm discussing. "
The flawed logic persists imo. Arguing the toss over the number of times characters offer direct context for you is irrelevant to whether or not they are narrators. Likewise, nobody has ever claimed that antagonists cannot be narrators - it's a straw man and utterly irrelevant to the issue. If Alyx is not a narrator then neither is Atlas.
The line you quote from Atlas is not narration - it is a character within the universe talking to you directly in 'real-time' and ruminating about Rapture. It is exposition, it sets tone, all of that, but the implication is not that Atlas is telling you a story, but that he has just put his walkie-talkie to his mouth and is talking to you from somewhere else in the city.
When Obi-Wan Kenobi's disembodied voice says to Luke "Use the force" at the end of Star Wars, is he being a narrator? If he isn't, then neither are Atlas or GlaDOS, because there is literally no difference in what is happening.
So for you a narrator cannot be a character in the world, they have to be nameless, and they cannot offer tutorial advice as well?
That last one strikes the RSPD narrator from the list even though everything else about that character's role suits your traditional and limited definition of 'narrator'.
Stories don't need narrators, many games don't have any, but to refuse to accept Atlas or GLaDOS as narrators because they also fill other roles is kinda silly.
Atlas is only being the 'Obi-Wan' type when he is saying things like "Would you kindly ______?" But when he is telling you what is happening in front of you, and what happened before you got there, he is performing narration.
"So for you a narrator cannot be a character in the world, they have to be nameless, and they cannot offer tutorial advice as well?
That last one strikes the RSPD narrator from the list even though everything else about that character's role suits your traditional and limited definition of 'narrator'.
Stories don't need narrators, many games don't have any, but to refuse to accept Atlas or GLaDOS as narrators because they also fill other roles is kinda silly.
Atlas is only being the 'Obi-Wan' type when he is saying things like "Would you kindly ______?" But when he is telling you what is happening in front of you, and what happened before you got there, he is performing narration."
Characters CAN be narrators. However what you are talking about is contextualization or exposition. In other words information being revealed about the story at hand. How can that information be revealed? Well there are a couple of ways. Thorugh a narrator, character, setting, or through the time management in the story (not sure how to explain the last one in english). So in other words the setting inw hich you are tells you about the story, as well as the time mangament (does it jump back or forward in time, does it move slowly), characters may also expose information to other characters or themselves that serves as context to the audience (think Oblivion villagers talking to each other, or someone talking to himself, this is also what Atlas, GladOS and all the erroneously called narrators do), last is the narrator, he relays information directly to the audience by speaking to them and narrating to them, he also touches lightly on the fourth wall while doing this, when the narrator itself cannot be trusted he is an unreliable narrator. Now do you understand why the cahracters you are talking about are NOT narrators? However a character can serve as a narrator at certain points if he relays information directly to the audience, then he becomes a character narrator. *note* so I haven't played bioshock (I have to wait for the ps3 version) so try not to spoil stuff anymore plz
> So for you a narrator cannot be a character in the world, they have to be nameless, and they cannot offer tutorial advice as well?
Where did you get that idea from? A narrator can be all of those things.
> Stories don't need narrators, many games don't have any, but to refuse to accept Atlas or GLaDOS as narrators because they also fill other roles is kinda silly.
That's not what I'm doing. I'm rejecting Atlas and Glados because they are not narrators, not because they fulfill multiple 'roles' as characters.
> Atlas is only being the 'Obi-Wan' type when he is saying things like "Would you kindly ______?" But when he is telling you what is happening in front of you, and what happened before you got there, he is performing narration.
Characters can say what is happening in front of you, and what happened before you got there. It is called exposition, and has been established in drama and literature for centuries.
I think the choice of the word "narrator" is probably a poor one, and as such, is cripplingly limiting, so I've applied a certain quantum of fuzzy logic to my posts here, like nearly everyone else has.
Honestly, if the page could be renamed to something more fitting of its current state, that would be mucho wonderful. But, until it is, I think that defining narrator is still okay the way it's used thus far, even if it IS mostly technical at this point.
"I think the choice of the word "narrator" is probably a poor one, and as such, is cripplingly limiting, so I've applied a certain quantum of fuzzy logic to my posts here, like nearly everyone else has.
Honestly, if the page could be renamed to something more fitting of its current state, that would be mucho wonderful. But, until it is, I think that defining narrator is still okay the way it's used thus far, even if it IS mostly technical at this point.
Maybe "Unreliable Ally"?"
Yes that would be a very good idea, or perhaps unreliable character or unreliable guide. Still it would be nice to keep a separate unreliable narrator page, perhaps jsut explaing the concept (hopefully some gmaes in the future will use it as well)
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