Dave Fortress - Part 01

Thank you. I NEED this.

@onarum said:

@TwoLines said:

Played it for a week a couple of months ago. I had to watch two two hour videos on youtube as a tutorial. Pretty damn nuts.

I do believe this COULD be an easy game to manage, but the interface is abysmal. Absolutely horrid. In every way possible. I stuck with it because the game is amazing, but yeah, it's idiotic how badly designed the UI is.

Yeah the interface is terrible, but you know, once you learn the keyboard shortcuts you start doing stuff lightning fast, becomes second nature almost.

Which, I think, makes it the opposite of terrible. It somewhat resembles interfaces like that of the text editor vi - rather impenetrable at the start, but highly efficient and faster than any more complex GUI with mouse clicking and whatnot once you learn how to use it. From what Dave said about the two guys making this being hardcore programmers, it certainly makes sense, even though it's also certainly a good way to drive off potential players.

Could they even integrate a "friendlier" UI without revamping the whole engine? I mean, the game screen is more or less just a text window.

@onarum said:

@TwoLines said:

Played it for a week a couple of months ago. I had to watch two two hour videos on youtube as a tutorial. Pretty damn nuts.

I do believe this COULD be an easy game to manage, but the interface is abysmal. Absolutely horrid. In every way possible. I stuck with it because the game is amazing, but yeah, it's idiotic how badly designed the UI is.

Yeah the interface is terrible, but you know, once you learn the keyboard shortcuts you start doing stuff lightning fast, becomes second nature almost.

Which, I think, makes it the opposite of terrible. It somewhat resembles interfaces like that of the text editor vi - rather impenetrable at the start, but highly efficient and faster than any more complex GUI with mouse clicking and whatnot once you learn how to use it. From what Dave said about the two guys making this being hardcore programmers, it certainly makes sense, even though it's also certainly a good way to drive off potential players.

Could they even integrate a "friendlier" UI without revamping the whole engine? I mean, the game screen is more or less just a text window.

An hour 35 minutes in:

Vinny - "This is starting to get silly"

I am fascinated at how complex this game is. Imagine games in the future with this kind of scope and up to date graphics. Crazy.

Also to whoever is interested in learning more about the game I highly recommend captnduck's videoson darf fortress, he does an excellent job at explaining all the basics and giving great tips for pretty much everything.

So glad the PC crew is back!

@onarum said:

@TwoLines said:

Played it for a week a couple of months ago. I had to watch two two hour videos on youtube as a tutorial. Pretty damn nuts.

I do believe this COULD be an easy game to manage, but the interface is abysmal. Absolutely horrid. In every way possible. I stuck with it because the game is amazing, but yeah, it's idiotic how badly designed the UI is.

Yeah the interface is terrible, but you know, once you learn the keyboard shortcuts you start doing stuff lightning fast, becomes second nature almost.

Well it's made by 2 dudes, only 1 programs, and he doesn't give a fuck about graphics or accessibility at all so it's to be expected I guess.

I ordered that book off amazon a couple days ago but I guess it's backordered or something so I have to wait like 3 weeks to get it even with amazon prime :(

2cat.

2CAT!

Maybe this'll finally make me understand what Dwarf Fortress even is.

My favorite part: Vinny's complete disbelief at the idea of Chicken Part Wetness Tracking technology.

Part of the appeal of this reminds me of my nerdier days growing up and rolling random locations, events, and characters for tabletop roleplaying games that never really came to fruition. Its like that, only instead of just graph and loose leaf paper with scribbled notes, you've got a fairly powerful simulation doing more of the work for you.

Horrible, but the combo of Drew Vinny Jeff can make anything awesome.

A-Fing-Mazing

from no content to great content! Between this and Brads Doom, I'm a happy camper :)

@M_Shini said:

Dave Drew and vinny is so my fav GB Trio

I 1000 percent agree!

I've never taken livestock. Don't really need them when you've got a farm going.

@Krixok said:

Dave, Vinny, Drew, and Hardcore PC Game. Perfect.

Yes, more of this content please. This is why I give money to support this site.

I would play this if it had a better interface. I mean, it's cool for all the people who love how all that stuff works, but I don't really have the time or interest to go through 20+ hours of learning how to play.

Oh man, Jeff's utter disbelief that there's a frame counter at the end made me crack up. This was great. I know that if I ever started playing DF it would just consume my life.

man. i really loved this. i hope this will become a regular. like a dwarf fortress endurance run but only more awesome.

Please consider changing this from premium to free. More eyeballs = more interest = more donations.

This isn't for everybody, I learned.

Man, the chat was giving some horrible advice. Down stairs are fine. Why would you suggest up/down stairs? All they did was confuse everybody.

@HowDire said:

An hour 35 minutes in:

Vinny - "This is starting to get silly"

I am fascinated at how complex this game is. Imagine games in the future with this kind of scope and up to date graphics. Crazy.

Except games are going in a different direction. Up to date graphics but with less scope and less systems/complexity.

Also Dave should just go check out the Wiki. He'll understand things a lot better. That book just seems to be telling him exactly what to do but not explaining why, which is why he can't explain why he's doing what he's doing.

Dave shouldn't have such trepidation about this feature; a game as involved as this is going to get plenty of presentation mileage. For me, this is one of those games that's more captivating to watch someone else play anyway. I don't much enjoy micromanaging in games on my own because I never feel like I'm playing, I feel like I'm always preparing to play. Actually, I'd love the option to just watch the AI move around and shape the world without any input, to see what sort of story would unfold. I do, however, have Dave, Vinny, and Drew here to color a Dwarf Fortress world for me, and many thanks to them for that!

This feature can only get better. I feel like Dave's already gotten past the hardest part of learning how to play, which is just figuring out how to make the dwarves do anything. He never even ran into the "Make bed -> Needs bed" dilemma.

Fantastic.

@snide said:

@NoelVeiga said:

It's "ad infiniTum", not "ad infinium". Dave does this all the time and it throws me off every time.

Noted! It's a term I'm more familiar with reading than hearing and as all avid book readers will acknowledge, sometimes you sound out the words wrong in your head.

Yeah, I know. I mispronounced a fairly common word (which word is not important, since it was in a different language) until I was 20.

The worst part is that once you've gained a reputation for being a language snob you never ever hear the end of mistakes like those.

Can't wait for next episode!

@Flacracker said:

@HowDire said:

An hour 35 minutes in:

Vinny - "This is starting to get silly"

I am fascinated at how complex this game is. Imagine games in the future with this kind of scope and up to date graphics. Crazy.

Except games are going in a different direction. Up to date graphics but with less scope and less systems/complexity.

Yeeeeah, no, not really.

I know it sounds good to say that, but... nope. Paradox is still running strong (and I honestly believe Crusader Kings II is probably on par with Dwarf Fortress in terms of complexity, although it's far more accessible), a sequel to Sins of a Solar Empire just hit the market right alongside an expansion for Civilization and Starcraft 2 will get its own expansion in a few months.

I'd say that super-dense PC games are trucking along just fine. The problem is that back in the day selling ten thousand copies was a success. Now games of that kind sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions, and nobody bats an eye.

But even discounting that, when gaming has gone from this:

http://youtu.be/82TL-Acm4ts?t=18s

to this:

http://youtu.be/QZ9sMJrfW8s?t=54s

but also this:

http://youtu.be/5McCwFBi36I?t=58s

I genuinely have no idea what people even mean when they say that.

Incidentally, I was going to go with this series of links originally. They do work as well:

http://youtu.be/cZotY_F8UlU

http://youtu.be/Fa2GSE5nMO4

http://youtu.be/bGpZ2bbaYT4

I would NEVER play this BUT I will keep watching this. because Dave, Drew and Vinny are so darn lovable AND this game seems crazy dense but also facinates me on some deep dark level. Very enjoyable show guys!

@NoelVeiga said:

@Flacracker said:

@HowDire said:

An hour 35 minutes in:

Vinny - "This is starting to get silly"

I am fascinated at how complex this game is. Imagine games in the future with this kind of scope and up to date graphics. Crazy.

Except games are going in a different direction. Up to date graphics but with less scope and less systems/complexity.

Yeeeeah, no, not really.

I know it sounds good to say that, but... nope. Paradox is still running strong (and I honestly believe Crusader Kings II is probably on par with Dwarf Fortress in terms of complexity, although it's far more accessible),

Yeeeeah, no, not really.

I want to try this one day.

This is excellent and the sort of stuff that has made my premium membership worthwhile. Thanks, GB.

I love these types of games but I am too stupid to understand them, so this video is perfect for me.

This is the most interesting video I've seen on GB in a long time. The presentation was very good, making me feel like I might finally get into this game a bit. I've always wanted to but goddamn is it ever intimidating. Looking forward to the next episode!

@NoelVeiga said:

@Flacracker said:

@HowDire said:

An hour 35 minutes in:

Vinny - "This is starting to get silly"

I am fascinated at how complex this game is. Imagine games in the future with this kind of scope and up to date graphics. Crazy.

Except games are going in a different direction. Up to date graphics but with less scope and less systems/complexity.

Yeeeeah, no, not really.

...I honestly believe Crusader Kings II is probably on par with Dwarf Fortress in terms of complexity...

You may or may not have ever played Dwarf Fortress, but regardless, you are very wrong. CKII is definietly less complex than some other Paradox games, and DF is still way more complicated. In fact it's so fucking stupidly complex and there is so much going on behind the scenes, I really doubt there's any game that could compete with how functionally complex it is.

Whether that's a good or bad thing is really up to the user.

The closest thing I've played to an accessible DF is Towns. http://www.townsgame.com/

Not even remotely as complex, it has actual graphics and is pretty fun.

I loved this, please do more dave!

@TwoLines said:

Played it for a week a couple of months ago. I had to watch two two hour videos on youtube as a tutorial. Pretty damn nuts.

I do believe this COULD be an easy game to manage, but the interface is abysmal. Absolutely horrid. In every way possible. I stuck with it because the game is amazing, but yeah, it's idiotic how badly designed the UI is.

That's pretty much my impression, it seems like a potentially great game with a horrible interface. The fact that so much time is spent designating bounding boxes yet you can't do it with a mouse seems nonsensical, for instance. The psychotic level of detail is cool and kind of hilarious and needs to stay part of the game, but I really hope the guy making it sets up a Kickstarter at some point and hires some other people to work on the interface, graphics, and code optimization, and just concentrates on the game design.

Hahah Vinny's face through most of this video is awesome.

This is so awesome, 45minutes in without actually playing and I was still super entertained!

"Ak-wi-fur"

I don't know why you guys never draw comparisons to dungeon keeper, but instead you compare it to minecraft... what the hell?

The game IS dungeon keeper, obviously more complex. Top down, your dudes have their own AI, they get hungry and have their various needs and jobs, you mark ground to order your AI to go dig, you place rooms, your guys build things at your workshop that you tell them to, you get invaded and killed. Dwarf Fortress owes everything to that game, except that fact that you now need to be autistic to play it.

Chicken knee wetness is key to winning battle!

love when the Flight Club gets together

As someone who knew very little about Dwarf Fortress going into it, this video was a blast to watch. Drew, Vinny and Dave work very well for this kind of video. These kind of features are the reason why I subscribe to this website, so I really hope there is a lot more to come from this! It shows great potential for hilarity.

I love when DVD get together and play somewhat complex games and get me to try them. Got Crusader Kings II on sale and played about 40 hours of it and love it. This is looking to get me to try DF again now that they kinda sorta explained what was going on while they also have no clue.