@big_jon said:

@JasonR86: And that is why I have not had cable for 6 years now.

That means you're only one step away from not having XBL. The logic is the same buddy. Do it! Come on!

@big_jon said:

@JasonR86: And that is why I have not had cable for 6 years now.

Indeed. I've also been off cable for about 4 years at this point.

@big_jon: I'm with you. I've been on board since Crimson Skies, and I have to say this dashboard thing has been mediocre since the abandonment of the fast moving blade system. And gaming has taken a back seat to the Xbox strategy. (No joke. In the Microsoft retail training, they emphasize how the Xbox audience has a user base that cares more about alternate media than video games.) And Microsoft is the only company I know of that allows a premium service to be polluted by advertisement.

PSN is not a good solution, it's free but the service is hella sluggish. I don't know if it's still the case but when I played MW2 over PSN the experience was terrible, i'm aware that it's a Peer2Peer game but it seemed like the network was making it worse... something to do with servers?

Back on topic; Microsoft could make the benefits of being a Gold member better but so many people will keep paying, regardless.

@JasonR86 said:

@big_jon said:

@JasonR86: And that is why I have not had cable for 6 years now.

That means you're only one step away from not having XBL. The logic is the same buddy. Do it! Come on!

I don't want to have to, but I mean I was not gold for about 3 months, then I wanted to Play Battlefield 3, which I have premium for, and Halo 4 so it is a tough situation. One thing has changed though, I will not be buying XBL in yearly doses anymore just for the sake of it, I will not be on gold unless there is a game that I want to play online at the time.

The thing is that I used to be someone who re-subbed every year, that has changed though, the fact thank that someone like me who has bought into the Microsoft ecosystem so heavily, and for so long, is now questioning Xbox live, and its value means that Microsoft has fucked up.

@Humphreys said:

Yes PSN is free but the service is hella sluggish. I don't know if it's still the case but when I played MW2 over PSN the exprience was terrible, i'm aware that it's a Peer2Peer game but it seemed like the network was making it worse... something to do with servers?

Back on topic; Microsoft could make the benefits of being a Gold member better but so many people will keep paying, regardless.

That may have been the case years ago, but as it is I can't tell the difference between the two. I'm a gold and PSN+ member. One business model seems a lot better than the other.

@Humphreys said:

PSN is not a good solution, it's free but the service is hella sluggish. I don't know if it's still the case but when I played MW2 over PSN the experience was terrible, i'm aware that it's a Peer2Peer game but it seemed like the network was making it worse... something to do with servers?

Back on topic; Microsoft could make the benefits of being a Gold member better but so many people will keep paying, regardless.

But really, what are we asking for here? Some deals on arcade games that are new, a less add polluted dashboard, it's not like what we want is unrealistic or unfeasable.

Microsoft is on top right now, but as their competition gains ground, because of superior value, (If it does) it will start to hinder their product sales, and subs.

I have been a person who has always defended live, like so many others but the tide seems to be changing, and I hear more and more about people who don't even like turning on their Xbox's any more.

@zombiebigfoot said:

@big_jon said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

@big_jon said:

@FluxWaveZ: Because I have games I like to play online, all my friends are on this system, I like achievements, and Halo is something I can't get anywhere else. I play a lot of online.

I am in a tough spot, I don't want to have to switch, I just want Microsoft's marketing to get the fuck off my screen, and to have more value for what I am paying.

And those are the reasons many like you feel forced to pay for the service, and it is why Microsoft doesn't really need to do anything even though it'd make for a better experience for you and others because they know they'll get your money over and over again.

With the next console cycle all bets are off, and really, it is not good to have your most loyal customers pissed at you, eventually that will bite you in the ass.

PS2 was the thing last gen, and Microsoft is squandering away people's good faith here, they are not giving people any reason to trust them next generation, so who is to say that those people don't switch to another console that offers for of a deal to them in 2013?

The 720 is shaping up to be something I wouldn't pay several hundred dollars for. Neither does the PS4.

Huh? We know absolutely NOTHING about either consoles and were already slamming judgement down on it? Uh, okay?

@big_jon: In America sure, but everywhere else in the World the PS3 consistently outsells the Xbox in all areas. This is something a lot of people on these forums seem to ignore, the rest of the world.

I wouldn't pay for it were it not for Halo, there is really nothing in it that I need or want apart from Halo 4. My friends have all stopped playing or I have just stopped playing with them. I didn't have it during the summer and didn't miss it at all. I got it recently in preparation for Halo 4 though and I never really feel that bad about paying for it since its spread out over a year. Overall I am fairly "meh" on the whole service. I would love to see MS half the cost of it or make silver be actually useful.

Microsoft sending me 20 MS points (equivalent to a quarter) for my birthday really left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd prefer getting nothing at all over a fucking quarter. The XBL rewards program is trash.

@AlexW00d said:

@big_jon: In America sure, but everywhere else in the World the PS3 consistently outsells the Xbox in all areas. This is something a lot of people on these forums seem to ignore, the rest of the world.

I would think that America makes up for most of the sales though.

And just for the record I am a Canadian.

@big_jon said:

@AlexW00d said:

@big_jon: In America sure, but everywhere else in the World the PS3 consistently outsells the Xbox in all areas. This is something a lot of people on these forums seem to ignore, the rest of the world.

I would think that America makes up for most of the sales though.

And just for the record I am a Canadian.

Most of the sales? No. 40% of the sales? Sure, something like that.

I cancelled last week and havent looked back, but I have a PS3 and a PC to take up the slack. Seeing the offerings on those other systems made me realise what a chump I was for paying for something that is free everywhere else.

@big_jon said:

@Peanut said:

All of my friends own 360's. We play all of our games on 360. It's fucking pocket change if you're not a kid or a dropout.

Comment from an arrogant prick I'd assume.

Or someone who honestly doesn't give a fuck about spending $50 a year? Probably both, though.

@Peanut said:

@big_jon said:

@Peanut said:

All of my friends own 360's. We play all of our games on 360. It's fucking pocket change if you're not a kid or a dropout.

Comment from an arrogant prick I'd assume.

Or someone who honestly doesn't give a fuck? Probably both, though.

The assumption that you must be some sort of low life to care about the price of XBL is straight up douchey.

You clearly live in a simple world, that or you have everything handed to you on a platter.

@big_jon said:

@Peanut said:

@big_jon said:

@Peanut said:

All of my friends own 360's. We play all of our games on 360. It's fucking pocket change if you're not a kid or a dropout.

Comment from an arrogant prick I'd assume.

Or someone who honestly doesn't give a fuck? Probably both, though.

The assumption that you must be some sort of low life to care about the price of XBL is straight up douchey.

You clearly live in a simple world, that or you have everything handed to you on a platter.

It is douchey, you're not wrong.

However, I've worked my fucking ass off to get what I have, so you can shove that bullshit assumption up your ass.

@Peanut said:

@big_jon said:

@Peanut said:

@big_jon said:

@Peanut said:

All of my friends own 360's. We play all of our games on 360. It's fucking pocket change if you're not a kid or a dropout.

Comment from an arrogant prick I'd assume.

Or someone who honestly doesn't give a fuck? Probably both, though.

The assumption that you must be some sort of low life to care about the price of XBL is straight up douchey.

You clearly live in a simple world, that or you have everything handed to you on a platter.

It is douchey, you're not wrong.

However, I've worked my fucking ass off to get what I have, so you can shove that bullshit assumption up your ass.

And you can shove your bullshit money has no value, I have swimming pools of it attitude up your sandy vagina.

Thanks.

It's less than 5 dollars a month and very frequently you can find yearly memberships on sale. If 5 dollars a month is pissing your off / breaking your budget, you have bigger problems than mediocre Xbox dashboard updates.

@big_jon said:

And you can shove your bullshit money has no value, I have swimming pools of it attitude up your sandy vagina.

Thanks.

No problem, man.

6 years, and I have never paid for Xbox Live. I agree that the new dashboard is terrible, but I never see it since I play everything on steam now.

Just move on, at least until the next round of consoles, and think real hard about the past 8 years before you dive back into a walled garden.

I only have it for Netflix, and that is soon going to change. I'll just use my Wii and save money.
I never use the multiplayer aspect of Xbox live anymore. 
 
Edit: Yeah the ads thing is disgusting. I could see that for Silver members, but not Gold.

@StrainedEyes said:

It's less than 5 dollars a month and very frequently you can find yearly memberships on sale. If 5 dollars a month is pissing your off / breaking your budget, you have bigger problems than mediocre Xbox dashboard updates.

Man some of you people, I swear.

It is not 5 dollars a month, and yes living in an area where steady work is hard to find I do pinch my pennies, but really fuck off with that shit, internet is already 60$, Phone, food, rent, then XBL on top, for real grow the fuck up, money is not easy to come by for a lot of people, and looking at it like you should be some kind of rich person is fucking stupid, not all of us have the extra money to spare when push comes to shove so we need value to justify our purchases. Video games cost a lot of money, Xbox live goes on top of all that cost.

It is another 70$ a year on top of all the other money I pump into my Xbox, that said I don't want to pay for if it is not the value that I think it should be. Fucking people must all be pulling in 100,000 a year or something, money ain't shit to them. Students, and generally people trying to find their footing early in life often have to make decisions on where there money goes, go figure.

If things equated to less than 100$ a year we should just buy them and not voice out opinions on their quality right?

@PeasantAbuse said:

Microsoft sending me 20 MS points (equivalent to a quarter) for my birthday really left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd prefer getting nothing at all over a fucking quarter. The XBL rewards program is trash.

Don't spend that all in one place!

I have been subscribing since the January after it first launched. I don't think I'm going to renew when it runs out this time. It feels a little weird to me to just up and quit after so long. It's just a pure value issue for me, I don't feel like I'm getting anything for my money anymore. I just don't care about playing online anymore. I think the last game I played online for more that just an hour to check it out was the Trenched DLC. Also any other Gold only features that I might care about I can get for free and/or better elsewhere.

I actually find the new dashboard faster now than before. everything has a bit more polish to it. the 'Games' tab is now next to 'Social' (the first thing after 'Home' and 'Social'), instead of being the 3rd or 4th tab after TV and Video (TV & Video has even been merged into one tab). Checking out Entertainment/Kinect/Sports and that other stuff stuff no longer loads up a completely different app unless you're launching an app itself. Most of the extra tiles added show more content thats new/featured on the Marketplace; there's about just as much actual advertisements as there were prior to this update (one tile per tab). The important tiles on the home tab (or any tab) are very accessible by them being the first column (for the Home tab from top to bottom it's Current Disk in the system, Your pinned stuff, and recently launched/played games & content). If that isn't good enough, using the guide is still the most efficient way to get around and launch what you want (like launching different XBLA games or Apps w/o needing to go back to the dashboard) -- the guide loads even faster than it has before. The guide also has zero ads and you can still set your Xbox to launch game on disk at startup so you'll never see any ads if you want none of it. The 2005 dashboard guide had at least one ad on the bottom.

As far as the "Rewards" program which has been around for at least two years, it's always sucked and it has plenty of room for improvement. I've already mentioned in several other threads that their new 'myAchievements' thing is more insulting than actually a reward (and the program being a joke compared to Steam Sales). But if you look at the state of their program now than when it first launched -- for what it's worth -- it's at the least slightly improved. Before you needed 200 points in your queue in order for it to get transfered, now it's only 100. Before you got nothing for your gamerscore, at the very least we're getting something for it now even if it's at a laughably 1-2%. It's minimal progress, but still progress.

The stuff on PSN like free games and all that for PS+ members is likely more Sony saving face than being generous good guys. It's still cool they're doing something right for people still paying to support that service but regardless of what they're trying to offer for free or cheap now, they're still the same company that had thousands of Sony accounts compromised from their service being a target from multiple attacks and had extended outages. Valve has been doing the right things with Steam lately (steam sales, greenlight, mac/linux support, etc) so it's easy to see/say how cheap Microsoft is being with their poorly executed rewards program and sales. But Steam started out with a ton of criticism too, there's no reason why Xbox Live can be more enticing again with a few tweaks. Also the games may be cheaper on Steam and have more frequent (and usually free) updates, but that's at the expense of using up more bandwidth every month from game downloads & frequent patches (some being several GB large) plus spending more money to maintain a top end gaming rig every few years. Not everyone is going to have or want to fork out extra money for that kind of investment and not every ISP (especially in Canada) is going to be generous with their monthly bandwidth usage caps.

I've been a loyal Xbox Live member since the time Halo 2 came out and I'd like to see more quality and exclusive content from the service that enticed me support them to begin with. For better or worse, the service has drastically changed but it's certainly doing a good job with the current dashboard and services considering it's using 7 year old hardware. In 2005 the Blades dash was cool, but the Guide then was absolutely useless. With the amount of content that's on the service now, it would be an absolute clusterfuck even if there was an option to toggle back to an older version dashboard.

lotsa angry people on xbox for some reason this week

I think the service is worth it. The problem when it comes to the next generation Xbox is games and their focus on Kinect. If the next console has as many awesome non-kinect games as this one, I'll have no problem buying it.

This is all assuming that the situation with ads and cost stays where it is.

@big_jon said:

@StrainedEyes said:

It's less than 5 dollars a month and very frequently you can find yearly memberships on sale. If 5 dollars a month is pissing your off / breaking your budget, you have bigger problems than mediocre Xbox dashboard updates.

Man some of you people, I swear.

It is not 5 dollars a month, and yes living in an area where steady work is hard to find I do pinch my pennies, but really fuck off with that shit, internet is already 60$, Phone, food, rent, then XBL on top, for real grow the fuck up, money is not easy to come by for a lot of people, and looking at it like you should be some kind of rich person is fucking stupid, not all of us have the extra money to spare when push comes to shove so we need value to justify our purchases. Video games cost a lot of money, Xbox live goes on top of all that cost.

It is another 70$ a year on top of all the other money I pump into my Xbox, that said I don't want to pay for if it is not the value that I think it should be. Fucking people must all be pulling in 100,000 a year or something, money ain't shit to them. Students, and generally people trying to find their footing early in life often have to make decisions on where there money goes, go figure.

Then don't pay for it. It's pretty fucking simple. If $5 a month is enough to push your into the red, then yeah don't waste your money on something you don't need.

And being a person who frequently uses both PSN and XBL, I do equate XBL with a quality worth paying for.

I don't give two shits about the ads. I pay for it to play online.

@StrainedEyes: No you're right, costumers should either like something or not, no greys, no voicing opinions. durrr.

I don't want adds cluttering my fucking dashboard that I pay for with gold! Simple as that.

I would be happy paying for Gold if it was not the mess it has become, I have already explained that I will not have gold unless there is a game I really want to play online, that should not be the case, I want to want gold.

I paid for Gold back during the time when I had around 8-10 coworkers with it as well.

@Rotnac: Regardless of if its Sony trying to save face, they're still doing way more for their users then MS currently is. I don't havE a problem navigating the dashboard or the ads but if you compare the two all things considered Sony is offering a much better value. I've been in MS's corner for a long time but that might change come next gen.

Anybody here tried this dashboard ad blocking trick? I won't be near my xbox for another two months so can't give it a go.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/n5831/how_to_block_xbox_dashboard_ads/

Halo, Gears, Forza + cross-game voice chat... that's all I really value out of Xbox Live.

I cancelled my Xbox live after reading this. Thanks for pointing out how much money I was wasting. I thought about it and I haven't actually played any games online with it since getting it again in summer. Just used it for Forza for the Rivals mode, which I am done all of now except the monthly stuff.

I only paid for xbox live once. couldn't be bothered after that.

My 360 red ringed and I see no reason to continue paying for the service nor do I see any reason to get a new xbox 360. PC games are super competent now and I also have a PS3 (that never gets turned on). I neither care for multiplayer nor do I see anything from gold to warrant me continue to pay for a service I don't use (fuck you you happy war bullshit, and fuck you for making me pay to access netflix, a separate service I already pay for). Who knows, maybe they will make the new gen xbox live into something worth paying for, but it's not for gamers anymore. I'm down with your stance, man, xbox live is just not worth paying for.

I had reservations when I first got my Xbox but shortly after I made friends online, got into a community who played games together regularly and enjoyed the service for years.

If it weren't for Halo, Gears and the lower price point I wouldn't have chosen Xbox.

Nowadays what Live has become is just sad and to be honest, if like me you don't live in US you get the shaft on a lot of things. There's no Netflix, no ESPN and none of the other stuff like that 1vs100 thing. It's just a sterile delivery system for party chat, weekly deals and online gaming.

Come the next cycle it's all fair game and if Microsoft doesn't step up its game and still enforces paying for online then I'm taking my money elsewhere.

That's why I moved on to PS3. Only reason I still have my XBOX are for the Halo titles.

I pay for Gold because I like playing online and I hate the PS3's online capabilities. Plus I only ever pay like $30 for a year since I always bargain shop. For me I have none of the problems you've mentioned. The dashboard is fast enough for me at the 2 things I use it for: the game in the disc drive and Netflix.

I get a better and smoother online experience using my Xbox than I do with either my PC or my PS3.

As for the ads on the dashboard, the external ones should never have been introduced. The ads for games and services available on the Xbox make perfect sense, however. The only way I know what's happening in the PS3 store is by using an external source (like the Giant Bombcast) or by actually going into the PSN store which operates so slowly and cumbersomely I shudder whenever an exclusive I'm interested in arrives.

Gold should cost less and the Hyundai ads should disappear, but the quality of the experience I get now still justifies the discounted price I pay by buying my subscription through Amazon.

@big_jon: Agree alot. the homescreens tiles should all be there the the things you use, Youtube, My Games, VEVO, game demos, My Music, A icon for Trails Evo just because.

Once online passes hit I was going to move systems since to ridiculous to have to pay for online twice. But I didn't have enough money at the time to switch and gamestop would only give me about 40 bucks for it. But now, ooohh once the newest walking dead episode hits I am gone. I haven't even played any of the ps3 exclusives, so I'm very excited to leave, it's like quitting from a shitty job for a better one.

That's right, paying for xbox live is now comparable to working a shitty job.

I have felt like the OP since live was first launched. I only play my 360 games online now when I do the silver member one month of free gold trick. If they do the same thing again with the X-Box 3, and keep being nothing but a port box with no exclusives worth playing, it will be a long time before I touch it.

@crusader8463 said:

I have felt like the OP since live was first launched. I only play my 360 games online now when I do the silver member one month of free gold trick. If they do the same thing again with the X-Box 3, and keep being nothing but a port box with no exclusives worth playing, it will be a long time before I touch it.

This for sure. Being the "premier" port console won't be enough for me anymore because unlike back when the 360 launched, I now have a PC that I'll be playing those ports on.

I've just recently started feeling the same OP. I had a PS2 last gen and was fairly loyal to the brand. But when the X360 came along I was blown away by the idea of xbox live the system seemed really solid and really defined the early days of what online gaming on a console could be. Now however its strayed so far away from its roots its become just a jack-of-all trades machine. The subscription fee was totally reasonable in 2006, hell in 2010 it was "fine". But now.. its 2012 and we have paywalls behind paywalls, subscription fees that still include ads, and the 'privilage' to play the games you purchased online? Doesn't that sound crazy to anyone??

Personally I don't think the problem is gold or not, it's the fact this dashboard is overloaded with huge adds. Which should not be there gold or not in my opinion. Adds or info about new games and services is okay, but not this extreme. And adds about other products is just an insult. This dashboard more seems like one is turning on an advertisement box then a gaming device. And I think that is the actual problem. Not gold it self or gold vs. P+. At least not for me. Plus it's just exceptionally slow when you have an older profile with a lot of games.

It's that I really dislike the PS3 dashboard even more and it's store it still way worse (no easy trial versions to download, hard to navigate), I dislike how trophies are handled in every single way, how game updates are handled, not being able to login on 2 accounts using 2 controlers and 1 ps3 (me and my wife have separate accounts and like to coop) and some other petty issues. Very personal reasons to stay with the Xbox for now, despite the current Xbox dashboard also having become an abomination.

Overall I still find the user experience of the Xbox dashboard better then of the PS3. But Microsoft is gradually getting shittier and shittier, and doing so very fast! PS3 isn't getting better, it's just not changing much. P+ is better then gold, but that's separate from the dashboard issue for me at least. Only thing is, most services that you pay for which also run adds then stop showing you those adds. Microsoft decided otherwise, and that's even more stupid then the adds being there in the first place.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Microsoft has to make some drastic changes to Live next generation. Requiring it to play online and have access to apps isn't going to cut it anymore. They should really copy the PS+ model and have it give you access to free and discounted games and other features that are nice, but not super necessary. If they keep everything behind a paywall next gen, I'll be more likely to get a PS4 instead.

I've never understood how people can be okay with it. I mean you're paying a monthly subscription to get full access to everything on the disc you just payed for. You just payed the same amount as a PS3 owner, or probably more than a PC owner, but unless you're paying this subscription fee you won't be able to use the online portion of the game, on that disk you just payed for. It's crazy to me. It's like paying twice.