Now, whether you like the game or hate it is besides the point. As the title implies, this is an overlooked reason why I think Dark Souls is the one of the greatest games of the year. The reason, is simple--it's a complete game.

Now, bear with me.

2011 has been a great, great year. No doubt. We've had several amazing triple AAA games come out, and I myself have enjoyed several of them.

Dark Souls however, is the only game that reminds me not only gamplay wise, but business wise of an era gone. Which is to say the idea or concept of shipping a complete game for $60.

No secret DLC which is on the disc, no unlockable purchased levels, no online pass codes, no weapon/armor preorder bonuses, no character models or armor that you have to purchase, no "extra" guest DLC character, no bullshit.

You pay $60, you get the full game. There doesn't seem to be any insidious business decisions behind the game. Which other games are starting to make me sick just thinking about them. Arkham City's egregious preorder and Catwoman dlc (which if you're system isn't hooked up for whatever reason, you're out-of-luck), the $45 dollars for weapon skins in Gears of War plus $30 season pass, and the bullshit weapon upgrades for Uncharted 3 make me long for just spending $60 and being done with it.

What a pain in the ass it is to try to decide not only to buy the game, but where? Who's going to give me the best bonuses? Which bonus will give me the best advantage online? Am I only going to get 5 multiplayer maps, only to be charged $15 more a month later for 3 more?

It's sickening to me, and the business side of games is leeching all the fun out of it for me. Sure Dark Souls is hard as hell, unfair and clunky at times, but I'll be damn, if I didn't feel for once in the last three years, that I TRULY got my money's worth and the developer/publisher didn't leave anything out of the game, only to suckle my wallet dry.

I agree with you. I love knowing that I have a complete game sitting in front of me, but knowing how great the game is, I can't help but wish that there were more content coming (Bastion was like this). After Demon's Souls, I always had hope that they would add a 6th world that would be accessed from the broken statue in the Nexus.

@Poost said:

I agree with you. I love knowing that I have a complete game sitting in front of me, but knowing how great the game is, I can't help but wish that there were more content coming (Bastion was like this). After Demon's Souls, I always had hope that they would add a 6th world that would be accessed from the broken statue in the Nexus.

Ditto. Haven't played Bastion, but I agree with everything else.

I agree 100%. It seems all major games are filled with online passes, DLC and pre-order bonuses. It's nice to get a game that plays it straight.

yep i agree nice to just put disk in and play it. too many companyies trtying to get extra dollars

Yep, totally agree that too many publishers try to nickle & dime at every possible chance.

Yeah, I hate missing out on content because I didn't pre-order or something. But DLC is a welcome addition, as long as it's extra content (of good quality) to an already complete game, not features that were removed from the complete product in order to make some extra money down the line (more likely it was cut or delayed because of time constraints, at least that's how I hope it happens most of the time).

You just gotta suck it up, and vote with your wallet. Don't buy the DLC or skins or weapon upgrades or whatever that you feel are cheap attempts at taking more of your money. It's really the only thing we can do.

Unfortunately, it's a business, and they need to make money. These practices probably won't go away anytime soon.

I'm guilty of buying DLC and item packs or character packs or what have you, but I do it for games I enjoy and that I want to support. I'm hoping that my money further proves there's an interest in the game, and that they'll continue to support the game, make a sequel, more content, whatever. I don't know how else I could do that. It sure feels better than buying the game again because if I did that then I wouldn't gain anything from it.

I don't really mind the whole pre-order fad that's going on lately, it's just that publishers more often than not fuck up big time on regards what should be acceptable as pre-order and what's not in terms of content, online passes missing or flat out not working. I'm so glad that I don't have to put up with any of that pre-order shit with DkS.

I would love some DLC to be honest, more Dark Souls is never a bad thing. Especially if it's a zone like inside the painting, optional but awesome.

Agree.
 
The last real good and worth my money dlc was Borderland's General Knox.

Agree...just finished Demon's Souls and now starting up Dark Souls. I gotta admit I have been loving every second of Dark Souls but, I still think Demon's Souls is slightly better due to the hub worlds (1-1, 1-2, etc etc). Anyways..until I get a chance to check out Skyrim, Dark Souls is my Game of the Year for 2011. Well worth the $60.

I agree with you. I love knowing that I have a complete game sitting in front of me, but knowing how great the game is, I can't help but wish that there were more content coming (Bastion was like this). After Demon's Souls, I always had hope that they would add a 6th world that would be accessed from the broken statue in the Nexus.

I agree completely, I hate all of this DLC and preorder stuff that companies are trying to nickel and dime me with.

I like DLC... Sure sometimes it is silly, but a lot of the time it adds to a complete game. What is wrong with that?

Yep, the "no DLC"-announcement from From Software was the best DLC announcement ever.

Disagree. There are plenty of "complete" games out there, hell I'd argue most are. It's just now with the state of technology we can continue to add content to games to keep them fun for longer. It's just a value proposition at the end of the day, if a game is worth $60 to a consumer then they buy it. Are you saying you'd pay drastically more than $60 for Dark Souls if they charged it, or that you just generally don't buy games at full price since you feel they generally aren't complete packages? Either way, with no DLC, Dark Souls will stagnate while other games can be kept fresh and alive with new content.

@RsistncE: Only very few games are kept "fresh" really ... most of them have their donwload content planned and produced before the "final" product is even released. It's just a big ruse most of the time, you think it's fresh stuff but it's not. Do you for example honestly think that they're modelling those Forza 4 dlc cars right now?

The games that did it right were GTA4, Fallout 3 and Borderlands. And that's pretty much it.

What would've happened to Dark Souls is they would've taken out a few items and areas of the game and offerend them as DLC - the potential was there with they way they designed the world ("Want to use that elevator? Give us 10 bucks! You'll get some rare items down there!"). That's how the business works. But no, they gave us the complete package. Everything they produced and finished was put on the dvd.

@CptBedlam said:

@RsistncE: Only very few games are kept "fresh" really ... most of them have their donwload content planned and produced before the "final" product is even released. It's just a big ruse most of the time, you think it's fresh stuff but it's not. Do you for example honestly think that they're modelling those Forza 4 dlc cars right now?

The games that did it right were GTA4, Fallout 3 and Borderlands. And that's pretty much it.

Actually there's far more games that have done it right. Look at all of Blizzard's games. Hefty DLC has been added to all of them. Also look at CoD, brand new maps every few months, maps that weren't produced before the game was released. There's tonnes and tonnes of games that have had life lengthening DLC added to them. The point I was trying to make was that the OP's claim was an exaggeration and although there is the bad forms of DLC, the good forms are also present. I would say overall DLC hasn't caused any of the games I've played to feel less complete but it has added re playability to several games that I have loved.

I agree, a big part of the content feels like it would be released as dlc by some developers.

@RsistncE: Blizzard games are among the worst examples ... a fucking mount for 20$? This company is a pure joke now and they sink lower with every game - see D3 auction house. It feels like Blizzard at this point is primarily designing their games around a monetization scheme.

new vegas felt complete, plenty of stuff to do, but the DLC's were all fantastic, all different from the main game in some manner...

I think another overlooked reason, which also reminds me of a "bygone age", and which may usually be considered a flaw, is the lack of any explanations, tutorials, maps or even a semi-decent manual (well, I guess that is a current thing too...). It's one of the few games which forces me to learn it, actively seeking out information by discussing it with others, watching the speed run, watching strategy videos, buying and reading through its guide book (a first in about 10 years) etc. It's a perfect example of "less is more". Plus of course there is the extreme difficulty which makes you replay the levels over and over again until you master them.

You didnt get the McDonalds promotion in game hats?

This is...a very good point. Never thought about that. I completely agree!

@DecadentPimp said:

I think another overlooked reason which also reminds me of a "bygone age" is the lack of any explanations, tutorials or even a semi-decent manual (well, I guess that is a current thing too...). It's one of the few games which forces me to learn it by actively seeking out information, discussing it with others, watching the speed runs and strategy videos, buying and reading through its guide book (a first in about 10 years) etc. It's a perfect example of "less is more".

Also, exploration really feels like exploration. I'm sick of level designers hitting me over the head with their bright red lights that tell me where I need to go or some big fat arrow that points to my destination. I feel I'm treated like an idiot by today's games whereas Dark Souls respects my ability to find stuff out on my own.

I think another overlooked reason, which also reminds me of a "bygone age", and which may usually be considered a flaw, is the lack of any explanations, tutorials, maps or even a semi-decent manual (well, I guess that is a current thing too...). It's one of the few games which forces me to learn it, actively seeking out information by discussing it with others, watching the speed run, watching strategy videos, buying and reading through its guide book (a first in about 10 years) etc. It's a perfect example of "less is more". Plus of course there is the extreme difficulty which makes you replay the levels over and over again until you master them.

@babblinmule: There are basic tutorials in form of messages in the Asylum level. Also, press select on the stats, inventory,... screens and you can get a short explanation for everything.

@Galiant said:

Yeah, I hate missing out on content because I didn't pre-order or something. But DLC is a welcome addition, as long as it's extra content (of good quality) to an already complete game, not features that were removed from the complete product in order to make some extra money down the line (more likely it was cut or delayed because of time constraints, at least that's how I hope it happens most of the time).

Yeah. DLC in itself doesn't suck, just the weird preorder stuff. I think people try to lump them together as one and the same all too often.

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Galiant said:

Yeah, I hate missing out on content because I didn't pre-order or something. But DLC is a welcome addition, as long as it's extra content (of good quality) to an already complete game, not features that were removed from the complete product in order to make some extra money down the line (more likely it was cut or delayed because of time constraints, at least that's how I hope it happens most of the time).

Yeah. DLC in itself doesn't suck, just the weird preorder stuff. I think people try to lump them together as one and the same all too often.

Nope, there's plenty of non-preorder dlc that does suck and which is a ripoff. Most of it, actually.

@babblinmule: There are of course still concepts that are not really explained in the game. You could find out by yourself but you can also just look them up in a wiki. Like for example the covenant system or crafting.

I don't mind DLC, that is unless it doesn't come out on the first week of the game's release. Every ounce of content should be on the disc except ones that are not finished yet. Rockstar and Bethesda know this.

@Axxol said:

Wouldn't calling something triple AAA equal AAAAAAAAA?

And I do agree with you. Most devs/publishers are looking to squeeze as much money out of you as they can. That's how they grow and stay afloat.

GTA V is a AAAAAAAAA game

@DecadentPimp said:

I think another overlooked reason which also reminds me of a "bygone age" is the lack of any explanations, tutorials or even a semi-decent manual (well, I guess that is a current thing too...). It's one of the few games which forces me to learn it by actively seeking out information, discussing it with others, watching the speed runs and strategy videos, buying and reading through its guide book (a first in about 10 years) etc. It's a perfect example of "less is more".

Also, exploration really feels like exploration. I'm sick of level designers hitting me over the head with their bright red lights that tell me where I need to go or some big fat arrow that points to my destination. I feel I'm treated like an idiot by today's games whereas Dark Souls respects my ability to find stuff out on my own.

This is one of the reasons I like Nintendo. They sell you the whole goddamn game at once (for better or worse).

@Masha2932 said:

@CptBedlam said:

@DecadentPimp said:

I think another overlooked reason which also reminds me of a "bygone age" is the lack of any explanations, tutorials or even a semi-decent manual (well, I guess that is a current thing too...). It's one of the few games which forces me to learn it by actively seeking out information, discussing it with others, watching the speed runs and strategy videos, buying and reading through its guide book (a first in about 10 years) etc. It's a perfect example of "less is more".

Also, exploration really feels like exploration. I'm sick of level designers hitting me over the head with their bright red lights that tell me where I need to go or some big fat arrow that points to my destination. I feel I'm treated like an idiot by today's games whereas Dark Souls respects my ability to find stuff out on my own.

I haven't played Dark Souls yet but I see this point come up frequently -the fact that the game allows you to 'explore' and doesn't hold your hand. I'm curious why it works in Dark souls whereas if other games tried this people would complain about the lack of directions or poor signposting. Well designed tutorials and proper directions are great if well done and from the outside looking in it seems that sometimes Dark souls does not even explain basic concepts in game. Why in your experience does it work in Dark souls? Is it a product of the game's marketing that poor design decisions are shrugged off as the game's way of difficulty?

It just works. The game sparks your curiosity, rewards you for exploring but it doesn't give you overly obvious hints. I don't feel like I'm an idiot that is led around by lights the level designer placed somewhere to clearly guide you to where you have to go. I think that's a really bad habit in modern games. Too obvious clues take away the fun from exploration and finding stuff. And if you miss stuff, you miss stuff. There are huge hidden areas and bosses in the game, that are completely optional. Imagine how great the feeling is when you discover all this stuff. But if you don't discover it, you don't know about it and that's fine. There's never any message telling you that you missed anything and don't really need anything that from this optional content. It's just there to make the game more interesting and to make it easier sometimes.

And remember that annoying message in Alan Wake that was constantly and prominently displayed on screen telling you where to go? That's one of the worst examples of todays casual-driven game development. I felt like the game thinks I'm an idiot that can't keep a thought in his head for a few seconds so they have to constantly remind me. Getting told what to do exactly all the time bored me to death and it frankly annoyed me. And it destroyed every bit of the mystery that AW tried to develop. Dark Souls is a revelation in that regard. That game is more frightening, mysterious and fascinating than most games out there.

I'm trying to play other games since I finished DS a few days ago after about 100 hours of playtime. I want to complete Rage, I want to play Batman ... but I can't... after a few minutes I stop and start playing DS again. Not since Shadow of the Colossus did a game fascinate me this much.

edit: What I'm trying to say: Some people call DS not giving enough hints bad game design. I call putting lights where I need to go etc. bad game design. It's just a matter of preference and I am incredibly bored by today's breed of casual-friendly games that hit you over the head with every single little thing you need to do.

i agree 99% but the online pass thing i understand why theyre doing it, simply to prevent gamestop and other places that buy your game and sells it again since they dont get any profit from that so instead they say if you save money buying a used copy, you wont get the "entirety" of the game unless u spend extra bucks online to buy the pass and in that case you might as well buy a new game

@CptBedlam said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Galiant said:

Yeah, I hate missing out on content because I didn't pre-order or something. But DLC is a welcome addition, as long as it's extra content (of good quality) to an already complete game, not features that were removed from the complete product in order to make some extra money down the line (more likely it was cut or delayed because of time constraints, at least that's how I hope it happens most of the time).

Yeah. DLC in itself doesn't suck, just the weird preorder stuff. I think people try to lump them together as one and the same all too often.

Nope, there's plenty of non-preorder dlc that does suck and which is a ripoff. Most of it, actually.

Well I don't buy that stuff. Usually the stuff that comes out a month or two later that add to the story like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and LA Noire. So DLC in itself isn't bad.

Agree completely.

Yep, you're so right.

what if they did make DLC and it was awesome?

@RsistncE: I think you misunderstand me. I don't think DLC is bad, I think DLC that was intended and originally on the game is bad. And Blizzard is egregiously bad about charging you for things. Also, I'd like your list of "complete" games, when maps are being charge $15 for 3 maps (which is a 1/4 of a total price of a game) as good?

Yeah I agree. I think many japanese developers still hold this concept of actually delivering a complete game. When DLC comes, it really is a post-release job, even if they had some concepts thought out before that. Of course, and sadly, things are slowly changing to more western standards (just look at Capcom, or what Square Enix is doing with FFXIII-2, announcing extra bosses 4 months before release).

@Bobby_The_Great: You have to learn how DLC is actually made.

They don't work on a game till the day they come out and then suddenly go, "Okay rip that, that annnd that out and make people pay extra for it." A game is normally done one or two months before it comes out. In that period bugs are tested and fix, while the rest of the team makes DLC.

@kingzetta said:

@Bobby_The_Great: You have to learn how DLC is actually made.

They don't work on a game till the day they come out and then suddenly go, "Okay rip that, that annnd that out and make people pay extra for it." A game is normally done one or two months before it comes out. In that period bugs are tested and fix, while the rest of the team makes DLC.

There are exceptions to that, though. Assassin's Creed II for example. They just straight up took two missions of the main game and put them as DLC. They admitted it, even.

@kingzetta said:

@Bobby_The_Great: You have to learn how DLC is actually made.

They don't work on a game till the day they come out and then suddenly go, "Okay rip that, that annnd that out and make people pay extra for it." A game is normally done one or two months before it comes out. In that period bugs are tested and fix, while the rest of the team makes DLC.

There are exceptions to that, though. Assassin's Creed II for example. They just straight up took two missions of the main game and put them as DLC. They admitted it, even.

Never played the game but it's a respectable point

@kingzetta: I know how DLC is made. @BulletproofMonk said:

@kingzetta said:

There are exceptions to that, though. Assassin's Creed II for example. They just straight up took two missions of the main game and put them as DLC. They admitted it, even.

He summed it up perfectly. This is happening more and more.I just get tired of paying $60, when in reality to get a "full" game experience these days, I'm having to spend upwards to $100. With Dark Souls, I don't have to do that.