So for those that followed my recent Dark Souls thread, where I asked for tips and advices to make the game better for me (again, huge thank you for all those involved), after finishing it twice with 2 different characters, I thought I was all Soul'ed out, when, as if on purpose, Demons's Souls came out on PSN this week. Now, I wasn't going to actively search for Demons's Souls after playing Dark (even tho I absolutely loved it), especially since its not available where I live so I would have to order from amazon or something, but when its at the distance of a download away, I couldnt resist. So to all the Souls experts, much like the previous thread, help me decide if I want to pick this up or not.

Of course now I have a lot more knowledge of how these games work, so I wont need nearly as much help, but theres some things Im wondering:

-World Tendacy, what is it, should I worry about it?

-I assume it plays identically to Dark, minus the kick function?

-Is there a class that like the Pyromancer, has spells but doesnt need to pump points into int (basically I want to focus on endurance, vitality and either STR or DEX depending on what I feel like)

-speaking of classes, can I use all my Dark Souls knowledge about the stats in this game? (cap for diminishing returns at 50, what endurance does, notice weapon scaling and lvl that stat, etc)

-I know its not open world, instead uses a hub and you select "levels", but can you still go to the "wrong" place, and if so, please tell me where to go, because I really cant be arsed going to a high lvl zone by mistake :)

-I know there are no flasks and instead you have herbs (that you can buy up to 99?), but are there bonfires?

-how dark is it (no pun intended)? One of the few things that bothered me about Dark Souls was how dark most places were, and even tho I understand why, it still annoyed me I couldnt see 2 feet ahead of me (and I'm not even talking about the catacombs lol)

-not a question, but the idea of being at half-life while undead scares me, nasty flashbacks to being cursed in Dark.

-and finally, is it dramatically different than Dark Souls? At times, from what I heard, Dark almost sounded like a remake (same bridge with a dragon that flies by for example)

I'm still not sure if I can handle another souls game right now, but its cheap so maybe you guys can convince me :P

@Rhaknar: It's been a long while since I've played DeS so take my information with a grain of salt but I'll try to answer your questions.

-World Tendacy, what is it, should I worry about it?

Each world has a World Tendency to it. By default it sits at neutral but depending on online events and internal actions (such as dying in human form or defeating a boss) the world tendency can shift from Black to White. Black means harder, tougher enemies but also more souls and vice versa with White. More importantly, Pure Black/White tendency means that certain areas and characters are available to interact with.

-I assume it plays identically to Dark, minus the kick function?

Pretty much, however it should be noted that there is no Poise stat in Des. Which means wearing heavy armour can still interrupt your attack animations hence why it's a little easier just to wear lighter armour and dodge around the place.

-Is there a class that like the Pyromancer, has spells but doesnt need to pump points into int (basically I want to focus on endurance, vitality and either STR or DEX depending on what I feel like)

Not that I remember. Having said that, magic is very powerful in DeS plus it's replenish-able unlike Das where the only way to refill your spells is by visiting a bonfire, resetting all the enemies.

-speaking of classes, can I use all my Dark Souls knowledge about the stats in this game? (cap for diminishing returns at 50, what endurance does, notice weapon scaling and lvl that stat, etc)

They're very similar but it's worth taking a look at the stats page on the DeS wiki to clarify certain differences.It should be noted that there's no Attunement stat, rather, intelligence increases magic power AND attunement slots (called magic memory in DeS.)

-I know its not open world, instead uses a hub and you select "levels", but can you still go to the "wrong" place, and if so, please tell me where to go, because I really cant be arsed going to a high lvl zone by mistake :)

Each world has about 3-4 stages in them. Generally speaking you visit Stage 1-2 of each world and come back later if it's too tough (plus it's generally recommended.)

-I know there are no flasks and instead you have herbs (that you can buy up to 99?), but are there bonfires?

The worlds are a bit more linear so there are bonfires along the path they only appear after you kill a boss (which is the becomes the starting point for the next stage.) The only purpose of them is to allow transport to and from the Nexus but you can't rest at them.

-how dark is it (no pun intended)? One of the few things that bothered me about Dark Souls was how dark most places were, and even tho I understand why, it still annoyed me I couldnt see 2 feet ahead of me (and I'm not even talking about the catacombs lol)

It's about the same but I don't recall having many problems with lighting.

-not a question, but the idea of being at half-life while undead scares me, nasty flashbacks to being cursed in Dark.

Living at half health isn't so bad since you also become quieter in Soul Form.

-and finally, is it dramatically different than Dark Souls? At times, from what I heard, Dark almost sounded like a remake (same bridge with a dragon that flies by for example)

Similar enough. In fact, DaS takes a lot of cues from DeS so a few things would seem familiar. Having said that the tone and feel are rather different. It's a hard question to answer but the one word I use to describe it would be "Operatic" oddly enough.

In any case, hope that helped. Good luck!

1. World Tendency (WT) directly effects the quality of drops from enemies and how tough they are. On a scale from black to white, white WT means easier enemies but shitty drops, while black WT means better drops but harder enemies. In pure black or pure white WT (the extreme ends of each scale), special events occur which usually reset tendency when completed. Dying while in human (equivalent to non-hollow) form pushes the scale towards black, while killing black phantoms and bosses puts it towards white. If you're connected to the internet, it's the cumulative efforts of everyone that effect WT rather than just you.

2. And the jump function. You'll also move a little faster but generally, yes, the controls are very similar.

3. Every spell requires either intelligence or faith. Pyromancies are just a form of spell in Demon's Souls.

4. Mostly, but all the stats aren't identical, so it wouldn't hurt to look up how intelligence and attunement work in Demons Souls compared to Dark Souls.

5. You can only go to Boletaria at first, but you'll soon be forced to go into at least one other world. May I make this suggestion: stay in Boletaria until it lets you go no further, and then leave the rest of Boleteria until very last. It's not required, but those last two areas of Boletaria sure do feel like the climax of the game, to me. Other than that just go from left to right (in the hub world) and you should be fine. The rest is down to player agency, though, so if you're fed up with one world there's nothing stopping you from just taking a peak at the others.

6. No bonfires, just warp stones in each boss area that appear after the boss is dead. The trek from a warp stone to a boss is more or less the same as a bonfire to a boss, with shortcuts and the like to speed up return trips. You can warp back and forth to the hub and other warp stones as much as you like and from pretty much the start of the game.

7. Some areas are very dark. Nothing like TotG, but yes, dark. No light sources as equipment or items though.

8. Getting the miracle Second Chance should at least give you some breathing room. It literally saved my little guys life a number of times.

9. You'll meet characters that seem similar or identical to people from Dark Souls, and there will be areas and bosses that give off a very strong sense of deja vu. Don't go in expecting you know everything, though, or you're fucked.

It's still a great game, and with the PSN release out it'll be more populated than it's been in quite a while, so I'd say now is the best time to get in on the action.

There is also no jump in DeS.

If you are worried about half health, there is a ring in the very first combat zone (1-1, not the tutorial area) that bumps you up to 3/4 health in soul form instead of 1/2.

Overall, each game has it's moments, but I actually think Demon's Souls is a harder game. A few of the bosses are more difficult than most of what Dark Souls has to offer, but then again nearly all of the final bosses for each world are pushovers (think Bed of Chaos type fights, instead of your more standard ones). However, crafting materials for better weapons are a bit harder to come by, and the lack of a pyromancy equivalent means you are more locked into a particular fighting style. The atmosphere is pretty much identical, if a bit more dark and depressing.

As for world tendency, that's something I would definitely recommend looking up on a wiki before hand just to get the gist of what it all entails. They don't explain it at all in the game, and it can get pretty detailed. If you really want to trigger any events that occur at Pure Black or Pure White tendency it's easiest to achieve this by playing offline.

hmm. dunno what to do really, not really feeling it after those replies. Not blaming you guys lol, maybe im just soul'ed out like I said. No jump (even tho it took me ages to realise I could in DaS) kinda sucks, no pyro style class the same (although at least you can replenish mana this time), this world tendacy business sounds weird and it sounds like I can miss stuff if Im not offline, and the whole shitty drops while white thing doesnt sound good either. Oh and no poise sucks because I was going back to playing a dude with a big ass shield and shit (like my first DaS character).

hmph, I dunno. Maybe Ill just wait for DaS 2 and save the 20euros :/

So ended up buying Demons, couldnt resist, so heres some thoughts 4-5 hours in:

-Doesnt seem too hard so far, but thats mostly because im used to the game from playing so much DarkI think

-Nothing in the game calls levels by X-X as you guys call them, I assume thats just a community term (like 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, etc), and I also assume you call them that after each boss?

-Killed Phalanx and Tower Giant, so I assume I cleared 1-1 and 1-2? Theres a door now that says I need to slay a archdemon to pass, so I assume this is where it branches out to 2-1, and then later ill continue the first one.

-Not lvling outside of the nexus was something I wasnt expecting, nor can I say I enjoy much. If i was already paranoid about losing my souls after dying in DaS which has a lot more places to use them to lvl, this one will drive me crazy.

-I love that there is different gear for males and females, thats one thing that bugged me about DaS in fact.

-Is is me or you run faster in Demons than in Dark? I seem to run as fast while almost at 100% equip load as I did in Dark under 50% (the fat roll is still the same, and still sucks tho)

-The herb system seems A LOT easier than the Flask system, I already have a ton between the weak, medium and strong herbs

-Got a bastard sword, that basically acts exactly like the black knight sword in Dark, so im happy about that :)

-Speaking of gear, there was a place with some Dragons, when I came back as a human they were gone and I got a lot of stuff there, including a kick ass shield. Where did they go tho?

-Had to put the brightness to max, but that might be because of my TVs contrast as opposed to Dark where I played on a monitor.

-Speaking of PC / Console differences (even if its different games), holy jaggies Batman, good lord. Doesnt bother me, but quite noticiable :)

Thats about it for now, really enjoying it, but it would be hard not to since it feels like...more Dark Souls. Also, I think between the 2 games, when talking about preference, will probably boild down to whichever you played first (reminds me of the movies Snatch and Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels in that sense), Im liking it but Dark Souls will always be my favorite because it was my first I think.

edit: forgot 2 things, you guys werent kidding about the ring that bumps your health being early on, got it really fast. Another ring I got fast (surprisingly) was the Demons version of Havel's ring (equip load bump), cant say I mind that one bit tho :)

glad your liking the game so far, i had a lot of fun with it when i stopped giving a damn about getting killed. lol

You'll have a much easier time with Demon's Souls having played Dark Souls first and correspondingly you'll probably have a lower opinion of the challenge of the first game. But fret not, for this is actually the objective truth (having played Demon's Souls first myself). If you want to get the most out of Demon's Souls just play worlds 1-4 (left to right on the staircase, have to beat another world completely before you have access to 1-3 and 1-4) and forget world 5 even exists; it's not challenging mind you just exceedingly badly designed (3 easiest bosses in the series); Imagine Blighttown but like 5 times worse and with much worse enemy design. The bosses of 1-4 and 2-2 are the high points of the game other than the bridge with the dragon which is still pretty damn awesome, and unless you died repeatedly in human form for no reason the only part of the game that's on par with Dark Souls in terms of difficulty.

@Fredchuckdave said:

You'll have a much easier time with Demon's Souls having played Dark Souls first and correspondingly you'll probably have a lower opinion of the challenge of the first game. But fret not, for this is actually the objective truth (having played Demon's Souls first myself). If you want to get the most out of Demon's Souls just play worlds 1-4 (left to right on the staircase, have to beat another world completely before you have access to 1-3 and 1-4) and forget world 5 even exists; it's not challenging mind you just exceedingly badly designed (3 easiest bosses in the series); Imagine Blighttown but like 5 times worse and with much worse enemy design. The bosses of 1-4 and 2-2 are the high points of the game other than the bridge with the dragon which is still pretty damn awesome, and unless you died repeatedly in human form for no reason the only part of the game that's on par with Dark Souls in terms of difficulty.

that is not an option as I must do everything! (well, that I find heh). And I dont particulary NEED the game to be hard, hell, I play my games on normal when given a option

These rocky tunnels with a lot of forges and molemen is cool, nothing like that in Dark, I thought I was too low lvl for the zone because I wasnt hurting them much, but they arent hurting me either, and I read that this zone the enemies are just overall resistant to physical dmg. On my way to the Spider boss I think (at least I see webs now).

Being a sorcerer is way more powerful in Demon's Souls than Dark Souls, at least it seemed so for me.

And Demon's Souls is a lot harder too. There are no bonfires and you often do have to run through almost the whole damn level after a boss kills you.

@Rhaknar: Shrug, the end isn't great so really all you're doing is exposing yourself to a literal river of shit, enjoy.

@McGhee: That's solely a convenience thing; every level including 4-1 has shortcuts to the boss area so it is at most a 3-4 minute walkback (usually doable in 1-2).

I'm just glad the servers are still up and running.

beat 2-1, have a feeling the spider would have abeen a pain without the flame resistant shield. Really not liking how resistant to physical damage the enemies in this zone are, takes me ages to kill 1 in 2-2. Started a magician to see how it felt compared to Dark Souls, and even tho it has no charges on the spells, it also has no mana regen...so its the same shit in the end. Aparently the Royalty starts with a mana regen ring? Cleared 1-1 with the magician, magic seems strong in the game, but the very limiting mana pots you get annoys me.

Im also really not liking the world tendacy shit, im glad they dropped it for Dark, and I hope it doesnt come back for Dark 2. Missing items because of some arbitrary game condition I cant control (or could if I played offline aparently, but I cba having to log out of PSN when I want to play a game) is really pissing me off.

Overall, deffinately not feeling the game like I did Dark. Its good, but to me most of the changes Dark did made it much better.

I don't care for the world tendency system in DeS either. You basically have to go PBW tendency to get the drops you need to upgrade your weapons. Also, make sure you kill the crystal lizards when you first see them! They don't respawn continuously like in DkS. I think they respawn maybe two times before their gone forever. If your doing an int build you should probably grab the kris blade. Its in the area right before you fight the armored spider. It boosts for magic power. And don't worry about spice. Just go to 3-1. The cthulhu heads drop them like crazy there. You'll have plenty to finish the game with you farm there a couple of times. There's also a sword you can get ( can't remember which level it is. Either 3-1 or 4-1 sorry I haven't played DeS in a while) which regens your mana.

Good luck : )

How quickly these souls games go from madening frustrating to YEAH BRING IT... so, heavy into Demons Souls now, playing the mage, magic seems a lot more powerful here than in Dark (mainly because you can raise your mana bar and get mana regen, allowing you to play as a normal rpg mage I guess), which is cool since I mostly played melee in Dark (even the pyro I meleed most of the time).

I have now cleared 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, 2-2, 2-3 ("done" with world 2 in fact), 3-1 and 4-1. After reading about world 5, I think Ill leave all of that for last, as aparently its Blighttown on steroids, ugh. Some really cool bosses, I love that the game actually feels a lot different than Dark Souls, with a few exceptions (hey its another dragon bridge, or hey im being kidnapped by gargoyles again). Still seems easier than Dark, the hub system as opposed to open world is growing on me, as it allows you to jump between zones a lot faster (still prefer the open world design tho). Tower of Latria was amazing, those octopus head guys are one of my favorite enemies in both games.

What is NOT growing on me is the world tendancy, still hate it, more and more, eveyrtime I pass a door that is locked behind tendancy I actually groan out loud >_>

Using Boss souls for spells as opposed to just weapons is kinda weird, but kinda cool. So yeah, enjoying it a lot, but still think Dark Souls is the better game, and I doubt that will change with what I have left of Demons. I also doubt Ill play Demons more than once like I did with Dark. Still good tho, and it just makes me want Dark Souls 2 more and more

@mustachio: I was reading your pose. Sorry, what is TotG? a level in Dark Souls maybe? I am 30hrs into demon's souls and just purchased dark souls to follow up. DeSouls is amazing so far *cleared 1-3, 2-3 and 3-2 so far)

@paparoach: TotG = Tomb of the Giants in Dark Souls. It's pretty late into the game.

Wait wait, are you saying the ending to the entire game isn't great or the ending to a certain area? Because if you're trying to say the ending to Demons Souls isn't great then you must be out of your mind.

After Dark Souls I imagine the game won't be as shocking and amazing because Dark Souls pretty much lifted a lot of it's areas and encounters straight from the first game. For me it was quite the opposite. I was waiting for some fresh new Soulsing when Dark Souls had just come out, and instead I got a quite literal rehash of not only bosses but entire areas. Still a good game but did not have the same wow effect on me that Demons Souls did, which I still prefer. The entire soul form/human form aspect makes a lot more sense and is a cooler mechanic than being hollow in my opinion. World Tendency is fucked but in a way it keeps to the spirit of making it a hard game in that you need to be able to perfect some areas if you want White tendency items. That said, if you played the game at it's peak the developers did a lot of Tendency "weekends" and such where it was always full dark or full white tendency for a while - like Halloween for instance.

Also here is a cool video that might get some people psyched to play the original:

Well, now I'm in your boat. I bought Dark Souls and played it voraciously, S-ranking it a few weeks ago. When I noticed Demon's Souls on sale on PSN I picked it up immediately.

I'm kind of dreading having to adjust to game mechanics that were tweaked or downright fixed in the sequel.

As a person who also just logged about the same amount of time with dark souls. I just bought me a copy of demons souls today and am super excited to tackle it!

@rhaknar:

-World Tendacy, what is it, should I worry about it?

World Tendency shifts the difficulty of the world from easier to more difficult based on dying while human and beating bosses (as well as invading). World Tendecy is needed to get certain items (usually Pure White or Pure Black) and will cause diffrent enemies to spawn, as well as increasing the drop rate of rare items as the world tendency drops darker. If you are worried about world tendency, play offline, and splaying online resets world tendency.

-I assume it plays identically to Dark, minus the kick function?

There's a shove that works nearly identical to kick, but no, they do not play exactly the same. Combat is way fast in Demon's Souls. Two handing a greatsword (large sword in Demon's Souls) is about as fast a one-handing a straight sword in Dark Souls.

-Is there a class that like the Pyromancer, has spells but doesnt need to pump points into int (basically I want to focus on endurance, vitality and either STR or DEX depending on what I feel like)

Magic is extremely costly stat-wise due to there being Mana in Demon's Souls. Intelligence ups your Spell Slots and Mana pool, Magic increases your spell power, and Faith increases your Miracle slots and Miracle power. No magic for free in Demon's Souls, sadly. If you are still intrested in Magic, start as Royalty. They start as SL1 (like a Pyromancer), a catalyst, and a ring that regenerates your Mana.

-speaking of classes, can I use all my Dark Souls knowledge about the stats in this game? (cap for diminishing returns at 50, what endurance does, notice weapon scaling and lvl that stat, etc)

Basically. The only real differences are the aforementioned Int and Mag. Also, Vitality increases your item burden (you can't carry infinite items in Demon's Souls).

-I know its not open world, instead uses a hub and you select "levels", but can you still go to the "wrong" place, and if so, please tell me where to go, because I really cant be arsed going to a high lvl zone by mistake :)

Kind of? The first world of every world are usually pretty doable at any level. If you play them in "order" (1-1, 2-1...then 1-2, 2-2...), then you should be fine.

-I know there are no flasks and instead you have herbs (that you can buy up to 99?), but are there bonfires?

Sort of? Archstones dictate your in-world checkpoints, but you can't rest at them to recover health or respawn enemies. You have to either die or return to the Nexus to do that.

-how dark is it (no pun intended)? One of the few things that bothered me about Dark Souls was how dark most places were, and even tho I understand why, it still annoyed me I couldnt see 2 feet ahead of me (and I'm not even talking about the catacombs lol)

Not unbearably so. World 3 can get a bit annoying at times (still love it though), but you always have a light sorce, unlike Dark Souls.

-not a question, but the idea of being at half-life while undead scares me, nasty flashbacks to being cursed in Dark.

There's a ring you get early on that increases how much life you have in soul form. Becoming human though can be somewhat difficult since Stones of the Ephemera Eye are extremity expensive and rare and co-op isn't easy to come by these days. After a while, you just adjust to soul form.

-and finally, is it dramatically different than Dark Souls? At times, from what I heard, Dark almost sounded like a remake (same bridge with a dragon that flies by for example)

Several of the bosses in Dark Souls were ripped whole-sale from Demon's Souls and made way easier. The boss that Pinwheel was based on may actually kill you. Level design wise, they aren't that similar at all (except Blighttown and the Valley of Defilement being nearly identical). Mechanically, Demon's Souls is a tad simpler. Only two rolls, fast and fat, so you only have to keep your equip load under 50%. No poise, which can make slow weapons difficult to use (unless they are of a certain class that has uninterrupted animations). No bars indicating if you are building up bleed or poison. Upgrade materials are way harder to come by. Souls are also not as easy to accumulated, and repair costs are actually pretty high comparatively.