Something went wrong. Try again later
    Follow

    Dragon Age: Origins

    Game » consists of 20 releases. Released Nov 03, 2009

    Dragon Age: Origins is an epic fantasy role-playing game featuring a rich story, personality-driven characters, and tactical, bloody combat. It is considered a spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series.

    Morality Meter or Approval Meter?

    Avatar image for superbuster
    SuperBuster

    194

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    #1  Edited By SuperBuster

    So, do you think the switch from morality meters of past games like KOTOR and Mass Effect to the approval based system of DAO was worth it? I"m still iffy about it. I think I like that they did away with the morality meter, now instead of losing some arbitrary numbers when you make a morally bad decision you actually feel guilt, at least that's how it is for me. On the other hand, I'm not sure if I like the new approval system, just like the morality systems of the past, the approval system feels arbitrary. I wonder how many points of approval my mom has for me. Will certain dialogue trees close if I make her too happy? I wonder which gifts would make her happy and which ones will trigger a cutscene. I'm glad they did away with the morality meter but I"m not sure I like the approval meter any better. The best moments in the game for me happened when I had to make a moral decision without worrying about whether or not my party would approve of it. To this day I still feel guilty about getting that Blood Magic spec. 
     
    Well, at least that's my take on it, what's yours?

    Avatar image for vigilance
    Vigilance

    307

    Forum Posts

    345

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 5

    #2  Edited By Vigilance

    The approval meter is one of my favorite things about DAO. 
     
    When you are faced with a choice and two of your party members say "doing A is wrong" and the third says "doing B is wrong", that really makes me feel like I'm a world where everything is not black and white. 

    Avatar image for shiftshaper
    Shiftshaper

    334

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #3  Edited By Shiftshaper

    Morality meters are stupid as hell and can take a hike for all I care. And it's alo stupid to feel guilt over something you did in a game, seeing how it's NOT REAL. 
     
    I like it when the game isnt just black and white, it forces you to try making a decision based on what you think or who your character is for once instead of simply thinking "i'ma good guy so i'ma SAVE that guy insteada KILL 'im!"
    Avatar image for vigilance
    Vigilance

    307

    Forum Posts

    345

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 5

    #4  Edited By Vigilance
    @Shiftshaper: Yeah, a lot of games with moral choice posit "perfect saint who stands up for the people and wants no monetary reward for his efforts" with "raging psychotic".  
    Avatar image for bofooq
    BoFooQ

    1120

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    #5  Edited By BoFooQ

    plus with the approval meter if you do something someone doesn't like you can buy their favor back with gifts.  gifts are a bit random, and i wish i knew which ones had a certain person to give to and which ones didn't matter. 
     
    Avatar image for themangalist
    themangalist

    1870

    Forum Posts

    1

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #6  Edited By themangalist

    although i haven't played the game, i would agree the morality metre is bull. Everyone's just going to stick to one end of the line so in the end, you're either the perfect saint or the evil bastard. Too often that loot is given according to which side of the spectrum. I'm glad developers are finally taking away this horrible idea.

    Avatar image for eviltwin
    EvilTwin

    3313

    Forum Posts

    55

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #7  Edited By EvilTwin

    I like being able to create a character that sometimes can use a situation for monetary gain but is generally a "good" character.  In games with any sort of morality meter, it's almost always beneficial to either be all evil or all good.
     
    On the other hand, sometimes it feels as though there isn't enough consequence for doing things.  Why be a saint and let these people keep the money they clearly need when I can accept the quest reward and lose nothing?  The only thing I might lose is a few approval points from a character that can easily be bought back with gifts.
     
    Surprisingly, Fable II could probably teach most RPGs a lesson or two about that.

    Avatar image for superbuster
    SuperBuster

    194

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    #8  Edited By SuperBuster
    @EvilTwin said:
    " I like being able to create a character that sometimes can use a situation for monetary gain but is generally a "good" character.  In games with any sort of morality meter, it's almost always beneficial to either be all evil or all good.  On the other hand, sometimes it feels as though there isn't enough consequence for doing things.  Why be a saint and let these people keep the money they clearly need when I can accept the quest reward and lose nothing?  The only thing I might lose is a few approval points from a character that can easily be bought back with gifts.  Surprisingly, Fable II could probably teach most RPGs a lesson or two about that. "
    Hmm, it sounds to me like you're referencing that stingy merchant in Lothering in which case the consequences of your action wouldn't have time to have an effect. I agree that most of the small moral decisions you make don't have much of an effect besides approval points but I found that many of the larger moral decisions you make have a profound effect on the world and even your party.  
     
    The Asunder quest really exemplifies your issue though, SPOILER: you can fight the dude and receive next to nothing or you can accept a reward of 25g and only get a note in your journal talking about how someone else will suffer because of you and your party doesn't seem to care either way.
    Avatar image for eviltwin
    EvilTwin

    3313

    Forum Posts

    55

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #9  Edited By EvilTwin
    @SuperBuster said:
    "The Asunder quest really exemplifies your issue though, SPOILER: you can fight the dude and receive next to nothing or you can accept a reward of 25g and only get a note in your journal talking about how someone else will suffer because of you and your party doesn't seem to care either way."
    The Asunder quest is a great example.  25g for doing the "evil" thing with no apparent consequence, or next to nothing for doing the "good" thing with no other apparent rewards.  The only redeeming factor of these quests is the epilogue text at the end.  Which, in one case I found to be more emotionally moving than anything in the game, and in another case I found to be more morally gray than anything in the game.  Even though it was kind of an "after the fact" thing that you could have never known about.  It was still a pretty good "wow" moment.
    Avatar image for maxszy
    maxszy

    2385

    Forum Posts

    26

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 3

    #10  Edited By maxszy

    I really like it actually. Because when you have party members with conflicting opinions, you know one decision isn't going to satisfy them all. So you kind of have to go off obviously what you believe but also maybe who you would rather please or dissapoint.
    Avatar image for teran
    Teran

    876

    Forum Posts

    45

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 1

    #11  Edited By Teran
    DAO doesn't have a visible morality meter.  Rather than giving you some kind of chart showing how pure or tainted your character is they allow the world to change and if you keep acting a certain way you will get a reputation for that behavior.  These changes aren't always obvious however on my second play through I am finding that it almost feels like an entirely new story. 
     
    @Shiftshaper
    said:
    " Morality meters are stupid as hell and can take a hike for all I care. And it's alo stupid to feel guilt over something you did in a game, seeing how it's NOT REAL.  I like it when the game isnt just black and white, it forces you to try making a decision based on what you think or who your character is for once instead of simply thinking "i'ma good guy so i'ma SAVE that guy insteada KILL 'im!" "
    Suspension of disbelief.  Try it some time. 
    Avatar image for vigilance
    Vigilance

    307

    Forum Posts

    345

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 5

    #12  Edited By Vigilance
    @Teran: That's cool. One of the things I love about BioWare games is the replay value.  
     
    For me, the big moment I snapped a little was freeing the Qunari. The chantry mother was really annoying and patronizing to me and I just threatened her with Intimidate.  
     
    I liked that most of my party members were totally on board. Only Alistair took a big approval hit. 
    Avatar image for delta_ass
    delta_ass

    3776

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 36

    User Lists: 7

    #13  Edited By delta_ass

    The morality meter worked fine in KOTOR but I really disliked how they used it in Mass Effect. One example comes to mind:
     
    I reached Peak 15 and had to make this huge good/evil choice. My natural response would've been to kill off the Rachni queen. But because that was the "Renegade" option, and I'm trying to go for a full "Paragon" playthrough, I had to pick the other option, which was letting them go.

    Because seriously, trying to get the most Paragon points was the only reason I picked that option to let this queen insect go. The Rachni are basically giant space bugs that once almost conquered the galaxy. They're governed by a hive mind, come out of eggs laid by queens... just your standard Alien ripoffs. And here I had the chance to wipe out the last queen. Somehow that was deemed the "evil" choice though.

    It's just hard to believe that any rational person in that situation would've been Jesus-like and let that bug go free. Now, this one queen in particular did telepathically communicate with me and say that of course she wasn't going to be like that, she would teach her offspring to exist peacefully, mend their ways, etc. But really, who would just accept the word of this thing? I doubt even Gandhi himself would've been so understanding and trusting of a large space insect. Ya know what, it really reminds me of the TNG episode "I, Borg." Didn't buy Picard's decision in that episode and I don't buy the Paragon choice here.

    It was sooo tempting to just hit the Renegade dialogue option and fry the Queen. But BioWare just decided that would be evil and I'd be punished with Renegade points. Seems to me they shouldn't be making judgements in really gray areas like that. I guess I just don't like BioWare pushing their non-genocidal agenda in their games. 

    Avatar image for bertmasta
    bertmasta

    214

    Forum Posts

    448

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 6

    #14  Edited By bertmasta

    Yes through away morality, morality is so vague anyway, this way decisions can pan out in many ways due to the nature of judging morality from a perspective rather than there being one right answer.

    Avatar image for supermarius
    Supermarius

    1223

    Forum Posts

    821

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #15  Edited By Supermarius
    @Delta_Ass: well, remember in mass effect it wasnt good and evil, but paragon and renegade. Neither one is pure good pr bad. Paragons basically just play by the rules and try to minimize conflict, renegades break the rules and aren't afraid to take aggressive action. The system was intentionally changed from good and evil in Kotor and Jade Empire to make it feel less judgemental, and also to prevent the player from having to be a baby murdering psychopath if they wanted to do a second playthrough as the darker alignment.
    Avatar image for raidingkvatch
    raidingkvatch

    1216

    Forum Posts

    5743

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 14

    #16  Edited By raidingkvatch

    I believe both concepts of morality and approval meters are too simplistic, personally, I don't like a game judging my morality, if I think an action is good, or for the greater good I don't want to be told it was wrong, or evil, or immoral; I have similar feelings about approval, I don't want to be told that something I've said or done has pleased or displeased other characters by a certain amount, I think the player should be left to judge (or misjudge) other character's reactions to them, their actions and each other. Having said all that I do think that morality, purity/corruption, and approval meters are a step towards a more dynamic time in videogames where every action a player makes can have an unknown effect on the game's events and relationships, and is therefore a step in the right direction which I can live with.

    Avatar image for teran
    Teran

    876

    Forum Posts

    45

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 1

    #17  Edited By Teran
      @Vigilance: Haha yeah I experimented with that a lot on my second play through, I found that the amount of money you tithe has a big impact on her answer.  I also found that if you have Leliana in your group when you ask, you're basically guaranteed a yes answer even if you laugh at her and ask her if her request for a tithe was some kind of joke... I really like that there are so many different ways to get what you want from her and even if you're a total jerk you can still manage it. 
     
    @raidingkvatch:  I agree with you, up until now they have been too simplistic however in Dragon Age I find that it is extremely well done.  The approval rating really gives your party members more personality and you aren't really penalized if they start to hate you.  On the other hand you receive a small reward if they like you (+1 to a stat per approval level) and while it's nice it's not really good enough that you'd feel like you were missing out.   Only massive decisions carry enough weight to be potentially devastating to your party (telling Wynne you're a blood mage for example) but you're not really forced into these situations and can see them coming and know to avoid putting yourself in that situation.
     
    The fact is, no single character will approve of everything you do, and no single character is a clone of another in terms of what they approve of.  I also like that there are often negative consequences for just from bribing a character with gifts and not actually going and conversing with them.  Over all the system may not be perfect, but this is as close as I've seen any game get.

    This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

    Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

    Comment and Save

    Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.