@briangodsoe said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

Oh come on. I'm older than you. I also played Duke Nukem 3D when it came out and loved it, along with other Build Engine games like Shadow Warrior and Tek War (the latter being fucking awful but then it was Tek War). This is a shit game and no amount of nostalgia changes that fact. Everything that DNF does aside from vehicle levels and wankeractivity Serious Sam has done better.

There was a Tek War game? That's awful..

Yes. It was not good. Like the fiction.

Gearbox finished the game by polishing it up and making sure it wasn't an utterly broken mess at launch. 
 

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@TwoLines said:

Stop liking what I hate! Stop it this instant! You know internet, this is really getting boring. It's just the same shit, over and over and over again. It's like that South Park episode.

Bulllshit. This isn't about taste. DNF is a shit game.

You don't seem to understand the concept of opinions very well.

No really, I do. Duke Nukem Forever's measure of quality doesn't relate to who likes it and who doesn't. It looks awfully dated, has exceedingly limited combat and excessive load times on consoles. It's not a good game by any means. It certainly may have some appeal from a nostalgia standpoint or for curiosity's sake, but it really is a shit game, especially in light of its 14 year development cycle and its price. Had it, like the Serious Sam reboots, been sold at a budget price I wouldn't be so harsh on it but as Gearbox decided to sell it as a full priced product it must be compared with equivalently priced products and, as such, it just doesn't compare on any level.

Have you actually played any of it, or are you calling it shit simply because that's the popular opinion in the press? I've played the first few hours of the game, and it's not the clusterfuck of a shit sandwich that some reviews have painted it as. It is not a disaster; Superman on the Nintendo 64 was a disaster. It was a nearly unplayable mess. Duke Nukem Forever far exceeds the low bar set by the likes of such games and, even if it isn't your thing specifically, I can understand how some would enjoy playing it.

I have played it, up to and beyond the point the QL points out (with the Holsom Twins being alien "infested"), that includes three bosses, two driving sections, some interactive shit, the Duke Cave and a bunch of so called combat with troops (pig cops, hoverpack grunts and so forth). It is indeed a clusterfuck or rather, more apropriately, a clusterfizzle of epic proportions. I'm not sure what you perceive as good quality (or even mediocre) combat in a FPS, but DNF does not have anything redeeming in terms of combat - the weapons all feel floaty, the combat feels utterly detached, all of the environments feel cramped - even those outside, the FoV is all kinds of wrong (you feel squished up against the camera lens) and the AI isn't just poor, it's plain mindbumblingly boring. The game doesn't even compare with DN3D in any decent way. It even manages to look worse than a game with a 2.5D engine. See, Duke IS my thing. I love DN3D. This game just fails in every way possible to inherit any of the magic which that game had. As a real fan of DN3D (and other Build engine games made by the same team like Shadow Warrior) I cannot see how someone can enjoy playing DNF. The game feels like a chore. A really boring, ugly, annoying chore.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@TwoLines said:

Stop liking what I hate! Stop it this instant! You know internet, this is really getting boring. It's just the same shit, over and over and over again. It's like that South Park episode.

Bulllshit. This isn't about taste. DNF is a shit game.

You don't seem to understand the concept of opinions very well.

No really, I do. Duke Nukem Forever's measure of quality doesn't relate to who likes it and who doesn't. It looks awfully dated, has exceedingly limited combat and excessive load times on consoles. It's not a good game by any means. It certainly may have some appeal from a nostalgia standpoint or for curiosity's sake, but it really is a shit game, especially in light of its 14 year development cycle and its price. Had it, like the Serious Sam reboots, been sold at a budget price I wouldn't be so harsh on it but as Gearbox decided to sell it as a full priced product it must be compared with equivalently priced products and, as such, it just doesn't compare on any level.

Have you actually played any of it, or are you calling it shit simply because that's the popular opinion in the press? I've played the first few hours of the game, and it's not the clusterfuck of a shit sandwich that some reviews have painted it as. It is not a disaster; Superman on the Nintendo 64 was a disaster. It was a nearly unplayable mess. Duke Nukem Forever far exceeds the low bar set by the likes of such games and, even if it isn't your thing specifically, I can understand how some would enjoy playing it.

I have played it, up to and beyond the point the QL points out (with the Holsom Twins being alien "infested"), that includes three bosses, two driving sections, some interactive shit, the Duke Cave and a bunch of so called combat with troops (pig cops, hoverpack grunts and so forth). It is indeed a clusterfuck or rather, more apropriately, a clusterfizzle of epic proportions. I'm not sure what you perceive as good quality (or even mediocre) combat in a FPS, but DNF does not have anything redeeming in terms of combat - the weapons all feel floaty, the combat feels utterly detached, all of the environments feel cramped - even those outside, the FoV is all kinds of wrong (you feel squished up against the camera lens) and the AI isn't just poor, it's plain mindbumblingly boring. The game doesn't even compare with DN3D in any decent way. It even manages to look worse than a game with a 2.5D engine. See, Duke IS my thing. I love DN3D. This game just fails in every way possible to inherit any of the magic which that game had. As a real fan of DN3D (and other Build engine games made by the same team like Shadow Warrior) I cannot see how someone can enjoy playing DNF. The game feels like a chore. A really boring, ugly, annoying chore.

I didn't say that it was necessarily a good game from my perspective. Only that, as far as I've played, I've played far, far worse.

@Demoskinos said:

@SeriouslyNow: Because Serious Sam is tedious wave after wave of enemies just being thrown at you. Its boring.

That stuff isn't really what Serious Sam is all about. The game is about megalithic bosses which can be hundreds of stories high. And co-op. The latter mixed together can often make for really entertaining, if utterly manic, gameplay sessions. You know, like DN3D used to be.

@Hailinel: I've played shit games too and even some worse than this but that doesn't change the fact that DNF is indeed a very poor game.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel: I've played shit games too and even some worse than this but that doesn't change the fact that DNF is indeed a very poor game.

Well, different people have different places that they draw that line.

@Hailinel: Agreed, I just wanted to be clear that I wasn't just taking the popular opinion.

I would like to think if/when Gearbox does another Duke Nukem game that hasn't had 3D Realms hands on it, that it would turn out good or, may I say, great? 3D Realms pretty much cocked it all up in the decade and a half they "worked" on it.

I thought the whole point of DNF was that it was not Gearbox's game, it was 3DRealm's. I would be pretty bummed if Pitchford really wanted this, in a genersl way of speaking..

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@TwoLines said:

Stop liking what I hate! Stop it this instant! You know internet, this is really getting boring. It's just the same shit, over and over and over again. It's like that South Park episode.

Bulllshit. This isn't about taste. DNF is a shit game.

You don't seem to understand the concept of opinions very well.

No really, I do. Duke Nukem Forever's measure of quality doesn't relate to who likes it and who doesn't. It looks awfully dated, has exceedingly limited combat and excessive load times on consoles. It's not a good game by any means. It certainly may have some appeal from a nostalgia standpoint or for curiosity's sake, but it really is a shit game, especially in light of its 14 year development cycle and its price. Had it, like the Serious Sam reboots, been sold at a budget price I wouldn't be so harsh on it but as Gearbox decided to sell it as a full priced product it must be compared with equivalently priced products and, as such, it just doesn't compare on any level.

Have you actually played any of it, or are you calling it shit simply because that's the popular opinion in the press? I've played the first few hours of the game, and it's not the clusterfuck of a shit sandwich that some reviews have painted it as. It is not a disaster; Superman on the Nintendo 64 was a disaster. It was a nearly unplayable mess. Duke Nukem Forever far exceeds the low bar set by the likes of such games and, even if it isn't your thing specifically, I can understand how some would enjoy playing it.

I have played it, up to and beyond the point the QL points out (with the Holsom Twins being alien "infested"), that includes three bosses, two driving sections, some interactive shit, the Duke Cave and a bunch of so called combat with troops (pig cops, hoverpack grunts and so forth). It is indeed a clusterfuck or rather, more apropriately, a clusterfizzle of epic proportions. I'm not sure what you perceive as good quality (or even mediocre) combat in a FPS, but DNF does not have anything redeeming in terms of combat - the weapons all feel floaty, the combat feels utterly detached, all of the environments feel cramped - even those outside, the FoV is all kinds of wrong (you feel squished up against the camera lens) and the AI isn't just poor, it's plain mindbumblingly boring. The game doesn't even compare with DN3D in any decent way. It even manages to look worse than a game with a 2.5D engine. See, Duke IS my thing. I love DN3D. This game just fails in every way possible to inherit any of the magic which that game had. As a real fan of DN3D (and other Build engine games made by the same team like Shadow Warrior) I cannot see how someone can enjoy playing DNF. The game feels like a chore. A really boring, ugly, annoying chore.

I would like to think if/when Gearbox does another Duke Nukem game that hasn't had 3D Realms hands on it, that it would turn out good or, may I say, great? 3D Realms pretty much cocked it all up in the decade and a half they "worked" on it.

@UnsavedHero said:

I would like to think if/when Gearbox does another Duke Nukem game that hasn't had 3D Realms hands on it, that it would turn out good or, may I say, great? 3D Realms pretty much cocked it all up in the decade and a half they "worked" on it.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I SO wanna see what this game would have been like in '98, before they started going nuts with the engine changes.

Yeah, I still remember that trailer.  Came with the disc for Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project.  That looked absolutely epic.  A shame they didn't have a vision.  Either of those builds would have kicked ass.

@Caligula said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@TwoLines said:

Stop liking what I hate! Stop it this instant! You know internet, this is really getting boring. It's just the same shit, over and over and over again. It's like that South Park episode.

Bulllshit. This isn't about taste. DNF is a shit game.

You don't seem to understand the concept of opinions very well.

No really, I do. Duke Nukem Forever's measure of quality doesn't relate to who likes it and who doesn't. It looks awfully dated, has exceedingly limited combat and excessive load times on consoles. It's not a good game by any means. It certainly may have some appeal from a nostalgia standpoint or for curiosity's sake, but it really is a shit game, especially in light of its 14 year development cycle and its price. Had it, like the Serious Sam reboots, been sold at a budget price I wouldn't be so harsh on it but as Gearbox decided to sell it as a full priced product it must be compared with equivalently priced products and, as such, it just doesn't compare on any level.

Have you actually played any of it, or are you calling it shit simply because that's the popular opinion in the press? I've played the first few hours of the game, and it's not the clusterfuck of a shit sandwich that some reviews have painted it as. It is not a disaster; Superman on the Nintendo 64 was a disaster. It was a nearly unplayable mess. Duke Nukem Forever far exceeds the low bar set by the likes of such games and, even if it isn't your thing specifically, I can understand how some would enjoy playing it.

I have played it, up to and beyond the point the QL points out (with the Holsom Twins being alien "infested"), that includes three bosses, two driving sections, some interactive shit, the Duke Cave and a bunch of so called combat with troops (pig cops, hoverpack grunts and so forth). It is indeed a clusterfuck or rather, more apropriately, a clusterfizzle of epic proportions. I'm not sure what you perceive as good quality (or even mediocre) combat in a FPS, but DNF does not have anything redeeming in terms of combat - the weapons all feel floaty, the combat feels utterly detached, all of the environments feel cramped - even those outside, the FoV is all kinds of wrong (you feel squished up against the camera lens) and the AI isn't just poor, it's plain mindbumblingly boring. The game doesn't even compare with DN3D in any decent way. It even manages to look worse than a game with a 2.5D engine. See, Duke IS my thing. I love DN3D. This game just fails in every way possible to inherit any of the magic which that game had. As a real fan of DN3D (and other Build engine games made by the same team like Shadow Warrior) I cannot see how someone can enjoy playing DNF. The game feels like a chore. A really boring, ugly, annoying chore.

IMO you are wrong. I actually prefer Forever over 3D. I'm a log time Duke fan. And people saying this game is a broken mess, are just wrong. And I'd be willing to bet the reason most of them hate it is because it's difficult. Unless you've been playing classic shooters the past 12 or so years (like Doom and Duke Nukem 3D) and avoiding the newer modeled Shooters like COD, the game play style is hard as fuck to go back to. It's a game that requires skill. And I truly believe all of the hate comes from a place of ass-clowns being unskilled at it, or they haven't even played it and are judging upon these negative ass reviews, that have no clue what they are talking about.

Forever isn't difficult at all - save for the silly falling elevator sequence which takes way too long. It doesn't take much skill at all to shoot enemies that run straight at you and I only died in combat against one boss (the Overlord) and that was because I wanted to see how many melee hits Duke could take up close from a giant boss (4 it seems).

I dunno, I actually liked some of the underwater levels in the Mario games, although I'll admit they weren't as good as the rest of the gameplay and perhaps my nostalgia is kicking in a little too hard here. Considering how aged the rest of DNF looks though the underwater level doesn't really come as a big surprise, not that it doesn't sound like another nail in the coffin for poor Duke.

Well I did die a bunch in the game since I was playing on Come Get Some difficulty.  However, one of the big problems was just how hard it was to see the crosshair at times, especially while outside in daylight sequences.

Bulllshit. This isn't about taste. DNF is a shit game.

@Icemael said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

Bulllshit. This isn't about taste. DNF is a shit game.

@SeriouslyNow said:

Duke Nukem Forever's measure of quality doesn't relate to who likes it and who doesn't.

I love how not long ago you tried to lecture me on opinions.

Please read the other posts in the thread. People can like a game even if it's a bad game. Duke Nukem Forever is a bad game.

@briangodsoe said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

Oh come on. I'm older than you. I also played Duke Nukem 3D when it came out and loved it, along with other Build Engine games like Shadow Warrior and Tek War (the latter being fucking awful but then it was Tek War). This is a shit game and no amount of nostalgia changes that fact. Everything that DNF does aside from vehicle levels and wankeractivity Serious Sam has done better.

There was a Tek War game? That's awful..

Yes. It was not good. Like the fiction.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Caligula said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@TwoLines said:

Stop liking what I hate! Stop it this instant! You know internet, this is really getting boring. It's just the same shit, over and over and over again. It's like that South Park episode.

Bulllshit. This isn't about taste. DNF is a shit game.

You don't seem to understand the concept of opinions very well.

No really, I do. Duke Nukem Forever's measure of quality doesn't relate to who likes it and who doesn't. It looks awfully dated, has exceedingly limited combat and excessive load times on consoles. It's not a good game by any means. It certainly may have some appeal from a nostalgia standpoint or for curiosity's sake, but it really is a shit game, especially in light of its 14 year development cycle and its price. Had it, like the Serious Sam reboots, been sold at a budget price I wouldn't be so harsh on it but as Gearbox decided to sell it as a full priced product it must be compared with equivalently priced products and, as such, it just doesn't compare on any level.

Have you actually played any of it, or are you calling it shit simply because that's the popular opinion in the press? I've played the first few hours of the game, and it's not the clusterfuck of a shit sandwich that some reviews have painted it as. It is not a disaster; Superman on the Nintendo 64 was a disaster. It was a nearly unplayable mess. Duke Nukem Forever far exceeds the low bar set by the likes of such games and, even if it isn't your thing specifically, I can understand how some would enjoy playing it.

I have played it, up to and beyond the point the QL points out (with the Holsom Twins being alien "infested"), that includes three bosses, two driving sections, some interactive shit, the Duke Cave and a bunch of so called combat with troops (pig cops, hoverpack grunts and so forth). It is indeed a clusterfuck or rather, more apropriately, a clusterfizzle of epic proportions. I'm not sure what you perceive as good quality (or even mediocre) combat in a FPS, but DNF does not have anything redeeming in terms of combat - the weapons all feel floaty, the combat feels utterly detached, all of the environments feel cramped - even those outside, the FoV is all kinds of wrong (you feel squished up against the camera lens) and the AI isn't just poor, it's plain mindbumblingly boring. The game doesn't even compare with DN3D in any decent way. It even manages to look worse than a game with a 2.5D engine. See, Duke IS my thing. I love DN3D. This game just fails in every way possible to inherit any of the magic which that game had. As a real fan of DN3D (and other Build engine games made by the same team like Shadow Warrior) I cannot see how someone can enjoy playing DNF. The game feels like a chore. A really boring, ugly, annoying chore.

IMO you are wrong. I actually prefer Forever over 3D. I'm a log time Duke fan. And people saying this game is a broken mess, are just wrong. And I'd be willing to bet the reason most of them hate it is because it's difficult. Unless you've been playing classic shooters the past 12 or so years (like Doom and Duke Nukem 3D) and avoiding the newer modeled Shooters like COD, the game play style is hard as fuck to go back to. It's a game that requires skill. And I truly believe all of the hate comes from a place of ass-clowns being unskilled at it, or they haven't even played it and are judging upon these negative ass reviews, that have no clue what they are talking about.

Forever isn't difficult at all - save for the silly falling elevator sequence which takes way too long. It doesn't take much skill at all to shoot enemies that run straight at you and I only died in combat against one boss (the Overlord) and that was because I wanted to see how many melee hits Duke could take up close from a giant boss (4 it seems).M

Maybe it's because I'm playing on easy, but I got passed the falling elevator on the first try. It really wasn't that hard.

@Icemael said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

Bulllshit. This isn't about taste. DNF is a shit game.

@SeriouslyNow said:

Duke Nukem Forever's measure of quality doesn't relate to who likes it and who doesn't.

I love how not long ago you tried to lecture me on opinions.

Please read the other posts in the thread. People can like a game even if it's a bad game. Duke Nukem Forever is a bad game.

I love how people blame Gearbox for Duke Nukem sucking.  Didn't they just take everything 3D Realms had done and tried to turn that into some semblance of a game? 

@ArbitraryWater said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@briangodsoe said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

Oh come on. I'm older than you. I also played Duke Nukem 3D when it came out and loved it, along with other Build Engine games like Shadow Warrior and Tek War (the latter being fucking awful but then it was Tek War). This is a shit game and no amount of nostalgia changes that fact. Everything that DNF does aside from vehicle levels and wankeractivity Serious Sam has done better.

There was a Tek War game? That's awful..

Yes. It was not good. Like the fiction.

Oh geez. That looks abysmal. Maybe not as bad as some of the other post-DOOM garbage FPS wannabes, but still really, really, really bad. TekWar was that series of novels "written" by Shatner, right? I'm trying to get my bad 90s Sci-Fi licenses sorted out.

Yeah, TekWar was that series that Shatner was behind. Amazing that it actually spawned a syndicated TV show.

But then, this was also from the era that gave us Earth: Final Conflict, so take that as you will.

@Icemael said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Icemael said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

Bulllshit. This isn't about taste. DNF is a shit game.

@SeriouslyNow said:

Duke Nukem Forever's measure of quality doesn't relate to who likes it and who doesn't.

I love how not long ago you tried to lecture me on opinions.

Please read the other posts in the thread. People can like a game even if it's a bad game. Duke Nukem Forever is a bad game.

I have read them. Enjoyment (which depends on taste) is the only way to measure a game's quality. If someone likes a game, it's not bad to him. It might be bad to you, and perhaps even to the vast majority, but it isn't to him.So you can't say "this game is bad and taste has nothing to do with it". Taste has absolutely everything to do with it. Without taste, "good" and "bad" don't even exist.

I'm not talking about enjoyment. I am stating that categorically the game is a technically a bad game. Good and bad are not subjective when it comes to technical concepts. There are many bad things which can bring enjoyment. That doesn't preclude them from being bad. Duke Nukem Forever is very much a bad game - it has poor AI, ugly graphics, long load times, dated gameplay, unrewarding combat and a host of other issues which reflect its spotty development history. If people want to play it and enjoy playing it, more power to them. That will not change the game magically into a good game. Once again, I have never attacked anyone's taste in this discussion. I have made it clear that the game's failings have little to do with taste.

If people want to play it and enjoy playing it, more power to them. That will not change the game magically into a good game.

@Icemael: I guess we have to agree to disagree.

@DeeGee said:

@Demoskinos said:

water levels always sucks no matter how good the rest of the game.

Hey man, the water level in World of Illusion starring Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck was dope as hell.

So was the Splash Woman stage in Megaman 9- you could jump SO high!

I really have no idea what's with the sudden wave of bashing of underwater levels and first person platforming. It's not even people complaining about the quality of those elements in their implementation, they're bashing them outright.
Don't really care for DNF myself (or Duke Nukem in general), but honestly, is that really the worst thing in the game you can complain about?

@SuperSambo said:

@csoup

@SuperSambo said:

@Demoskinos

@SuperSambo: Yeah, funny that that some people can enjoy something other people don't. =\

But there is nothing redeeming. The shooting is substandard, the jokes arnt funny (if yout think they are there is something wrong with you) and it is filled with repetition. Or do you slapping boob walls?

Must he really answer your pointless questions? The guy liked the game, and yes some of the jokes are funny if you stop pretending to be more mature than you are. Granted, most of the jokes are lame, but then again half of entertainment today is. People are just hating on Duke because they waited to long and instead of being the nostalgic teenager who would have enjoyed this, they are a cynical adult who wishes to just bash everything and everyone in the world with their nonsense.

Whoa, where did that come from.

/endrant

I'm 19... But yeh, he doesn't have to answer my questions, I just genuinely want to know how someone could like this game.

Because its fun. It doesn't take itself seriously, and there are some fresh parts in it. Granted, theres some crazy boring segments too, like any of the turret sequences or when you have to blow up airships using the RPG, but the game is just fun for me.

The jokes are so stupid and lame, that they are funny. And thats the point; to laugh at how stupid and crude it is.

From what I gather, the entire game is a *sigh* out of 5.

@DeeGee said:

@Demoskinos said:

water levels always sucks no matter how good the rest of the game.

Hey man, the water level in World of Illusion starring Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck was dope as hell.

I second this notion.

@CH3BURASHKA said:

From what I gather, the entire game is a *sigh* out of 5.

like a sexual *sigh*?

I really have no idea what's with the sudden wave of bashing of underwater levels and first person platforming. It's not even people complaining about the quality of those elements in their implementation, they're bashing them outright.
Don't really care for DNF myself (or Duke Nukem in general), but honestly, is that really the worst thing in the game you can complain about?