A Journey to Discover If EarthBound Holds Up

  • 142 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Avatar image for rachelepithet
rachelepithet

1646

Forum Posts

1374

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 11

There's no good reason this isn't on DSI or the Wii VC either.

Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

There's no good reason this isn't on DSI or the Wii VC either.

DSi doesn't support Virtual Console titles in general, and why would they put it on the Wii when they want to encourage people to buy the new platform?

Avatar image for weegieanawrench
weegieanawrench

1968

Forum Posts

747

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 7

Can we get a quicklook of this? Either from @patrickklepek or the rest of the crew? I would love to hear their take on the updated version of the game. I only ever played a snippet of Mother 3 (a sin, I know), but this game always intrigued me.

Avatar image for cabrit_sans_cor
cabrit_sans_cor

164

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#104  Edited By cabrit_sans_cor

@patrickklepek if you didn't already know, the game has some deviously ingenious anti-piracy measures as well. I mean brilliantly evil stuff.

Probably should check that out after finishing the game though. Spoilers and whatnot.

Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

@patrickklepek if you didn't already know, the game has some deviously ingenious anti-piracy measures as well. I mean brilliantly evil stuff.

Probably should check that out after finishing the game though. Spoilers and whatnot.

Spoilers? Not really. The biggest things that the anti-piracy measures induced were:

  • An anti-piracy message would appear at start-up.
  • An absolutely psychotic enemy encounter rate throughout the game.
  • The game freezing just before the final boss fight.
  • You game data being wiped when restarting after said freeze.

Genius, it was.

Avatar image for steveurkel
steveurkel

1906

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#106  Edited By steveurkel

Why do you affiliate or link stuff from polygon? That video is objectively terrible. Ugh they have the worst sense of humor. I'm mad bro.

Avatar image for scarycrayons
scarycrayons

353

Forum Posts

134

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Oh Polygon. I'd make a comment laughing about Polygon's awful views that busty/stylish character art is somehow 'discrimination and hatred of women', but Patrick tends to share that mentality, so I can see why he linked to their site.

Oh well, there's always the comedy of Polygon giving Sim City 2013 a 9.5/10 at first. That was pretty hilarious.

Avatar image for jazgalaxy
JazGalaxy

1638

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@jazgalaxy said:

@likeassur said:

@jazgalaxy said:

I'm a vocal dissident of the idea that video games "hold up". In my opinion, if a game was ever good, legitimately, it will ALWAYS be good. Simultaenously, if you go back play a game and it "doesn't hold up", the odds are good it was NEVER actually good.

Good design doesn't change. Tastes do.

That being said, I feel like the majority of people who play Earthbound for the first time in 2013 and say it's gameplay "doesn't hold up" are the same people who wouldn't have liked it when it was new. Earthbound was 100% counterculture even when it came out.

The flaw in your point is that design evolves, along with our tastes. Look at every FPS since Modern Warfare. Nobody used down-the-sights aiming, and we were all fine with that. F.E.A.R. and Medal of honor were find games without it. Now try going back and playing them again, it's just not the same without what Modern Warfare did.

Does that make them bad games? Absolutely not, but they definitely don't hold up.

I could not disagree more.

There is no such thing as design evolution. What you are talking about, ESPECIALLY with down the sites aiming, is personal preference and trend. You mention Modern Warfare as being "evolved" FPS design, but I HATE Modern Warfare style FPS games. I think they are terrible. Are you right, or am I right? Niether. It's just personal preference. And what's trendy right now in the market is Modern Warfare and thusly, all games try to be modern warfare.

I can list a dozen sound design reasons why rechargeable shields ruin games. And, I can also list a dozen sound design decisions why they help the game experience. Niether is correct, it's just personal preference and whatever fad is popular at the time.

Being pretentious enough to think that whatever game you like right this second is somehow the "evolved" form of it is how people wind up looking at their yearbooks in 20 years and going "What the F was I wearing!?! I thought I was SO COOL in that picture..."

Are you kidding? You say "There's no such thing," then your last sentence is exactly what I'm saying. It's a hell of a lot more than just "personal preference." Do you want a better example? Take Goldeneye 007 and Halo: Combat Evolved. Are you really going to sit there and tell me that Halo's gameplay is just a "personal preference" and not an improved version of what Goldeneye did? Are Resident Evil's tank controls really on par with Devil May Cry's quick movement controls, and it's up to the individual to decide which is better?

I would bet you money that if Shigeru Miyamoto could go back and redo Super Mario Bros., he definitely would. In fact, that whole franchise shows the evolution of game design. Even something we take for granted - checkpoints and auto-saving - are things that were unheard of when Earthbound was out. You know why? Because game design changed. It's more than just "personal preference," because if that were the case, there would still be non-indie games that had Goldeneye's aiming, reset to the beginning if you die, and only manual saves. There's not, and it's impossible to go back without some sort of mini-culture shock.

You are just flat out wrong.

I said that people looking at year books and say what they wearing was ridiculous because it's a trend, which is the crux of my whole argument. What that person is wearing, when they are looking at their year book, will look just as outdated 20 years from THEN. Not because clothes have "evolved" and "gotten better", but because the fads change. And then, who knows, maybe it will all come back in fashion, as it does cyclicly.

Gaming is the exact same way. Turn based gaming is suddenly all the rage again, but after Warcraft 2 came out, you couldn't find a turn based game ANYwhere. Even Xcom, which was even more popular then, than it is now, wound up putting real time RTS elements in Xcom 3, which is why the game tanked and wasn't heard from again for like 15 years. Or, for instance, take co-op gameplay. Co-op suddenly became all the rage again after Halo brought it back to the forefront. But Halo didn't invent Co-op. Co-operative play was absolutely EXPECTED in the 8 and 16 bit eras of gaming. Almost every game had it until the technical limitations of the Playstation 3d gaming era meant that 2 player gaming was expensive on the hardware.

And, yes, I am absolutely going to tell you that Halo being better than Goldeneye is ABSOLUTELY just preference. Sure there were HARDWARE IMPROVEMENTS like having dual analog sticks that let Halo do some things that Goldeneye couldn't, but from a gameplay perspective, there are a ton of things that goldeneye does better than Halo. Recharging health? Personal Preference. Two gun limit? Personal Preference. Open landscapes vs. corridors? Personal prefence. Jump-happy gaming vs. gameplay where you can't jump? Personal preference.

And your dumb example of there being indue games that forced manual saves, and resetting to the beginning if you die is ridiculous because THERE ARE INDIE GAMES THAT DO THAT. I'm not sure what you were trying to prove by suggesting there aren't.

And as for Resident Evil's tank controls, those controls existed for a reason. I mean, firstly, Resident Evil controlled TERRIBLY. When it was NEW Resident Evil controlled poorly. This is because the control of RE, much like the rest of RE, was poorly ripped off the PC game Alone In The Dark. The "tank controls" exist because when the camera angle shifts (a cinema technique) the "absolute" controls would lose their orientation. If you are pressing "up" to move your character forward, then when the camera shifts to be in your characters face, pressing up would suddenly mean moving your character "backwards". "Tank controls" were actually a slice of genius and used in dozens and dozens of PC games like Little Big Adventure and Grim Fandango. It's also worth mentioning that "tank controls" were designed to be used on a keyboard.

Avatar image for viking_funeral
viking_funeral

2881

Forum Posts

57

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

#109  Edited By viking_funeral

I really, really enjoyed this game when it came out, but like a lot of classic RPGs from the NES / SNES era, I'm cautious of going back to them because I just can't do grinding like I used to.

I'm glad to hear that it can still be appreciated by relatively new players today.

Avatar image for iragequit
iragequit

337

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#110  Edited By iragequit

I first played Earthbound at my friend's house, I guess I was 8 years old. I was pretty good so he just wanted to watch me complete it. It was exciting figuring out that last battle. I went back to it at around 16 and found it to hold up then. Enjoy Patrick.

Avatar image for enchantedecho
EnchantedEcho

810

Forum Posts

659

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 17

User Lists: 6

These fans are beaten, bruise

Bruised maybe @patrickklepek? I really enjoyed reading the article though, seems like a really cool game; too bad I don't have a Wii U, hopefully it comes out on 3DS at some point.

Avatar image for saddlebrown
saddlebrown

1565

Forum Posts

80

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 1

@patrickklepek: "I’m about halfway through"

Man, then you don't even know. The ending is incredible. Genuinely touching. Follow-up article, please.

Avatar image for courage_wolf
courage_wolf

256

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#113  Edited By courage_wolf

16 bit JRPGs are perfection in video game form. I was a few years too young to get into them when they were new on SNES, but I discovered them during high school when they were rereleased on GBA. The first 16 bit JRPG I played was Final Fantasy V Advance and I instantly fell in love with the genre. Playing other classics like FF4, FF6, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, Tales of Phantasia (my favorite JRPG), Super Mario RPG, Secret of Mana convinced me that there is a special something about the time, style and hardware limits that combined to create one of the greatest styles of gaming in existence. This is highly subjective but I have to say that JRPGs lost the special something that makes the 16 bit era so glorious immediately after the genre moved to Playstation. Games like Final Fantasy VII and Chrono Cross, direct heirs of the 16 bit legacy, don't have the same purity of style and focus as their SNES ancestors.

I am very interested in playing Tales of Destiny and any other 2D PS1 JRPGs that might be out there. I think it would be a good test to see if the magic was tied directly to the SNES hardware or simply the type of games the hardware encouraged. I suspect that it is more the style and relative simplicity of the games that makes me love them so much. As far as I can tell the developers of Tales of Destiny made a SNES JRPG on the PS1 so it would probably give me the same joy as older games.

Avatar image for saddlebrown
saddlebrown

1565

Forum Posts

80

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 1

So... it's super juvenile, but start a new game and set "pussy" as your favorite food. Makes for a hilarious conversation with your mom next time you talk to her.

Avatar image for michaelfossbakk
michaelfossbakk

265

Forum Posts

50

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Only EarthBound and The Wonderful 101 have me interested in the Wii U.

Avatar image for selbie
selbie

2594

Forum Posts

6468

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

So... it's super juvenile, but start a new game and set "pussy" as your favorite food. Makes for a hilarious conversation with your mom next time you talk to her.

That's no different to calling Epona "Your Mom". A perfectly valid gameplay method :D

Avatar image for xeiphyer
Xeiphyer

5964

Forum Posts

1193

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 8

Reading about the useless items reminded me of Dark Souls. There's a starting item that does absolutely nothing at all.

Avatar image for ch3burashka
ch3burashka

6086

Forum Posts

100

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#118  Edited By ch3burashka

@xeiphyer said:

Reading about the useless items reminded me of Dark Souls. There's a starting item that does absolutely nothing at all.

Or does it...? *creepy ghost noises*

But yeah, I think the director confirmed he trolled everyone.

Avatar image for agent_eli
Agent_Eli

165

Forum Posts

131

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 8

Scoops, did you know that crap like this goes to my Instapaper withing seconds?

Cuase this ain't crap, it's great writing. Keep it up!

Avatar image for blazehedgehog
BlazeHedgehog

1286

Forum Posts

15665

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 30

User Lists: 3

Wait. Protractors and rulers actually don't do anything? I figured you got buffs to your accuracy.

Avatar image for gimpy
Gimpy

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for towersixteen
TowerSixteen

554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#122  Edited By TowerSixteen

Man, guys, due to the differences in how the games actually play, I don't think the dark souls example is really equivalent. Earthbound may benefit sometimes from a guide due to obscure game design but in Dark Souls the "needing a guide because this game is too obscure" problem is a fucking epidemic and probably the games biggest flaw, IMO.

Also, to those saying "There is no such thing as improvements in game design": LOL

Its perfectly fine to love old games, lord knows I do, and many still play great. But gaming can and has improved over time, I can't believe that's even a question. And can you seriously, honestly say that there's not a single game you enjoyed at first that you've then gone back to and kinda felt eugggh about? Frankly, I wont believe you if you say no. And even if you don't, the hypothesis that "oh, people who don't like it now wouldn't have liked it then" is absurd. Sure, some fit that label, but there are plenty who liked certain old games but feel, in light of modern game design, they're just too clunky or primitive to enjoy. It's fine to disagree about which games are hit hard by this but denying the phenomenon at all is madness.

Avatar image for ryn
ryn

23

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

One of my favourite quirks about Earthbound was that you could control the entire game using just your left hand and it was a completely viable way of playing that game (I think the only thing you can't do is ring the bell on the bike since that's the only use for RT). You could bring up the menu using the select button and the L shoulder was your confirm for everything. I find modern day controllers are a bit ill suited to doing this but it was a great little unique thing in a game full of unique things.

Avatar image for cdub901
CDUB901

343

Forum Posts

-4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#124  Edited By CDUB901

@pmavers said:

@budwyzer said:

DL'd the ROM for an emulator I had on my PSP (such an old game).

Played it all the way to the end, got to the final boss, and he was invincible no matter what I did to him. So I uninstalled it.

So you actually didn't try everything. It's not actually invincible, but just requires a little bit of out of the box thinking and a leap of faith. Maybe involving something you've had the entire game, but it's never done anything.

Re: Porting it to the 3DS, that would require them to put out SNES games on the 3DS. Which there aren't any so far.

No the final boss is literally just straight up invincible in hacked versions of the game

it's a little something the developers put in the game that when it detects that it isn't a legit copy of the game it lets the gamer play the game like normal, but the final boss will be unbeatable meaning you had wasted all that time to get to the final boss and can't beat the game....it was a fantastic troll

Avatar image for mezmero
Mezmero

4009

Forum Posts

405

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 17

#125  Edited By Mezmero

I played a bit of this game during the early days of emulation on PCs. It was really cool but I could never make the time to finish it. I was a Genesis kid so this wasn't even on my radar at the time of release. Not surprised to hear that it holds up. I really like how mundane a lot of the early enemy and item types are. I would really like to get back to it some day but I don't have any plans to own a WiiU. Thanks for the article.

Avatar image for patrickklepek
patrickklepek

6833

Forum Posts

1300

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#126  Edited By patrickklepek

@hailinel said:

@cabrit_sans_cor said:

@patrickklepek if you didn't already know, the game has some deviously ingenious anti-piracy measures as well. I mean brilliantly evil stuff.

Probably should check that out after finishing the game though. Spoilers and whatnot.

Spoilers? Not really. The biggest things that the anti-piracy measures induced were:

  • An anti-piracy message would appear at start-up.
  • An absolutely psychotic enemy encounter rate throughout the game.
  • The game freezing just before the final boss fight.
  • You game data being wiped when restarting after said freeze.

Genius, it was.

Holy shit!

Avatar image for evercaptor
Evercaptor

436

Forum Posts

3014

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

@patrickklepek didn't dark souls do exactly that with the pendant gift? I don't remember anyone getting "furious" there, either.

Avatar image for ryanwhom
ryanwhom

291

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#128  Edited By ryanwhom

The Mother 3 fanslation is pretty solid and it is a better game I think, in the the weird stuff is weirder and the emotional stuff is somehow way more gutwrenching. Its such an odd combo. The distinction it has and continues to have stems largely from the fact that no other game has since really entered the same territory.

Avatar image for jazgalaxy
JazGalaxy

1638

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#129  Edited By JazGalaxy

Man, guys, due to the differences in how the games actually play, I don't think the dark souls example is really equivalent. Earthbound may benefit sometimes from a guide due to obscure game design but in Dark Souls the "needing a guide because this game is too obscure" problem is a fucking epidemic and probably the games biggest flaw, IMO.

Also, to those saying "There is no such thing as improvements in game design": LOL

Its perfectly fine to love old games, lord knows I do, and many still play great. But gaming can and has improved over time, I can't believe that's even a question. And can you seriously, honestly say that there's not a single game you enjoyed at first that you've then gone back to and kinda felt eugggh about? Frankly, I wont believe you if you say no. And even if you don't, the hypothesis that "oh, people who don't like it now wouldn't have liked it then" is absurd. Sure, some fit that label, but there are plenty who liked certain old games but feel, in light of modern game design, they're just too clunky or primitive to enjoy. It's fine to disagree about which games are hit hard by this but denying the phenomenon at all is madness.

You're missing the point.

There are absolutely old games that are hard to go back and play, but those games were bad when they were new. Take Golgo 13 "Top Secret Episode" on the NES for example. That game is almost impossible to go back and play. But it was also almost impossible to play when it was new. That's just a POORLY DESIGNED GAME. (which I loved) And yes, it is absolutely hard to go back and enjoy poorly designed games.

Contrast that with something like Faxanadu on the NES. I remember loving that game to death, but I can't go back and play it now because it takes too much time to play, and I just don't have that much time as an adult.

FAXANADU HAS NOT CHANGED. I HAVE CHANGED.

Vinny put it perfectly when he was doing the quicklook of Dark Souls, or Demon's Souls. One or the other. He said that it was the perfect game he would have eaten up when he was a kid over summer break, but as an adult, it seems like it just takes too much time, and he doesn't have that kind of time. Dark Souls is not poorly designed, VINNY HAS CHANGED.

There are tons of "evolutions of game design" that Brad will point out as loving, like games that sell all your equipment back to the store with a push of a button, sometimes not even requiring to go back to the store. This is great for Brad, who plays so many games that he appreciates games that mostly play themselves, but to other people who buy 2 or 3 games a year, it's dumbed down gameplay to the point to being no fun at all. It's not "evolution", it's personal preference.

Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

@towersixteen said:

Man, guys, due to the differences in how the games actually play, I don't think the dark souls example is really equivalent. Earthbound may benefit sometimes from a guide due to obscure game design but in Dark Souls the "needing a guide because this game is too obscure" problem is a fucking epidemic and probably the games biggest flaw, IMO.

Also, to those saying "There is no such thing as improvements in game design": LOL

Its perfectly fine to love old games, lord knows I do, and many still play great. But gaming can and has improved over time, I can't believe that's even a question. And can you seriously, honestly say that there's not a single game you enjoyed at first that you've then gone back to and kinda felt eugggh about? Frankly, I wont believe you if you say no. And even if you don't, the hypothesis that "oh, people who don't like it now wouldn't have liked it then" is absurd. Sure, some fit that label, but there are plenty who liked certain old games but feel, in light of modern game design, they're just too clunky or primitive to enjoy. It's fine to disagree about which games are hit hard by this but denying the phenomenon at all is madness.

You're missing the point.

There are absolutely old games that are hard to go back and play, but those games were bad when they were new. Take Golgo 13 "Top Secret Episode" on the NES for example. That game is almost impossible to go back and play. But it was also almost impossible to play when it was new. That's just a POORLY DESIGNED GAME. (which I loved) And yes, it is absolutely hard to go back and enjoy poorly designed games.

Contrast that with something like Faxanadu on the NES. I remember loving that game to death, but I can't go back and play it now because it takes too much time to play, and I just don't have that much time as an adult.

FAXANADU HAS NOT CHANGED. I HAVE CHANGED.

Vinny put it perfectly when he was doing the quicklook of Dark Souls, or Demon's Souls. One or the other. He said that it was the perfect game he would have eaten up when he was a kid over summer break, but as an adult, it seems like it just takes too much time, and he doesn't have that kind of time. Dark Souls is not poorly designed, VINNY HAS CHANGED.

There are tons of "evolutions of game design" that Brad will point out as loving, like games that sell all your equipment back to the store with a push of a button, sometimes not even requiring to go back to the store. This is great for Brad, who plays so many games that he appreciates games that mostly play themselves, but to other people who buy 2 or 3 games a year, it's dumbed down gameplay to the point to being no fun at all. It's not "evolution", it's personal preference.

What you consider a "bad" game isn't necessarily bad, nor has it always been bad. Game design has evolved, just as hardware has. As designers and programmers have gotten better at what they do, the general quality of games has increased (though there are still plenty of bad games being made today). But relative to their time, some of those games you consider bad are still actually quite good. They weren't necessarily poorly made games; they've just been eclipsed by experiences that are better designed. Golgo 13: Top Secret Episode and Faxanadu are the same games now that they were back then, but the fact that game design has generally gotten better over the years doesn't negate the enjoyment that people have with them, or games like them.

Avatar image for dan_citi
Dan_CiTi

5477

Forum Posts

306

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#131  Edited By Dan_CiTi

@patrickklepek: I hope you can dig into Mother 3 at some point, it's got all of the charm of this game and arguably more, and things such as UI and overall game design are much smoother and modern(not perfect, obviously but I never got as frustrated.) I gotta say I love EarthBound as well, even if there are some shaky design decisions now and then and the game's UI is pretty awful.

Avatar image for zockroach
zockroach

116

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Excellent write up, Patrick.

Avatar image for billymagnum
billymagnum

919

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

"These fans are beaten, bruise, and can't be trusted with sharp knives."

somethings...missing...

Avatar image for towersixteen
TowerSixteen

554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@towersixteen said:

Man, guys, due to the differences in how the games actually play, I don't think the dark souls example is really equivalent. Earthbound may benefit sometimes from a guide due to obscure game design but in Dark Souls the "needing a guide because this game is too obscure" problem is a fucking epidemic and probably the games biggest flaw, IMO.

Also, to those saying "There is no such thing as improvements in game design": LOL

Its perfectly fine to love old games, lord knows I do, and many still play great. But gaming can and has improved over time, I can't believe that's even a question. And can you seriously, honestly say that there's not a single game you enjoyed at first that you've then gone back to and kinda felt eugggh about? Frankly, I wont believe you if you say no. And even if you don't, the hypothesis that "oh, people who don't like it now wouldn't have liked it then" is absurd. Sure, some fit that label, but there are plenty who liked certain old games but feel, in light of modern game design, they're just too clunky or primitive to enjoy. It's fine to disagree about which games are hit hard by this but denying the phenomenon at all is madness.

You're missing the point.

There are absolutely old games that are hard to go back and play, but those games were bad when they were new. Take Golgo 13 "Top Secret Episode" on the NES for example. That game is almost impossible to go back and play. But it was also almost impossible to play when it was new. That's just a POORLY DESIGNED GAME. (which I loved) And yes, it is absolutely hard to go back and enjoy poorly designed games.

Contrast that with something like Faxanadu on the NES. I remember loving that game to death, but I can't go back and play it now because it takes too much time to play, and I just don't have that much time as an adult.

FAXANADU HAS NOT CHANGED. I HAVE CHANGED.

Vinny put it perfectly when he was doing the quicklook of Dark Souls, or Demon's Souls. One or the other. He said that it was the perfect game he would have eaten up when he was a kid over summer break, but as an adult, it seems like it just takes too much time, and he doesn't have that kind of time. Dark Souls is not poorly designed, VINNY HAS CHANGED.

There are tons of "evolutions of game design" that Brad will point out as loving, like games that sell all your equipment back to the store with a push of a button, sometimes not even requiring to go back to the store. This is great for Brad, who plays so many games that he appreciates games that mostly play themselves, but to other people who buy 2 or 3 games a year, it's dumbed down gameplay to the point to being no fun at all. It's not "evolution", it's personal preference.

At some level, your right- It is us that's changed, but also, duh. ANY game only has worth based on how people perceive it. Thats the point. Our expectations have changed. It's like- imagine a top of the line computer from 1995. It was good then. Now place it in a modern context and, as a computer, its crap- computer design has changed, and people's expectations are different. It would be ridiculous to say, as your are, because it's crap in a modern context, it was secretly crap when it came out. Likewise, its dumb to say that, if it was good then, it has to still be good now. What was cleverly designed for it's time has been hopelessly antiquated by it's successors.

Avatar image for nvmfst
nvmfst

633

Forum Posts

525

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 5

Think I am going to go dig out my smell-o-vision cards and game guide.

Avatar image for mithhunter55
mithhunter55

1101

Forum Posts

709

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

: D Glad you liked it Scoops. I played it on a couple years ago for the first time and thoroughly enjoyed the cute world of crazy happenings. Download the fan translation of Mother 3 it is very good.

Avatar image for gordo789
Gordo789

364

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#137  Edited By Gordo789

@atesh42 said:

Um. Patrick, how about Dark Souls with its Pendant in comparison to the ruler?

I don't think Patrick has played Dark Souls.

Anyway, great write-up. This is a cool game I should finish sometime. I rented it as a kid but never got through to the end.

Avatar image for hilts
Hilts

411

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 6

Love Earthbound. It's my number 1 feel good game even today. Some of its systems remind me of Pokemon but its got a blissful charm of its own. Mother 3 us worth tracking down for GBA if your able to read Japanese ... Or run the translated version on an emu!

Avatar image for krathoon
Krathoon

304

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I have the original cart. Hardcore.

Avatar image for jazgalaxy
JazGalaxy

1638

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@jazgalaxy said:

@towersixteen said:

Man, guys, due to the differences in how the games actually play, I don't think the dark souls example is really equivalent. Earthbound may benefit sometimes from a guide due to obscure game design but in Dark Souls the "needing a guide because this game is too obscure" problem is a fucking epidemic and probably the games biggest flaw, IMO.

Also, to those saying "There is no such thing as improvements in game design": LOL

Its perfectly fine to love old games, lord knows I do, and many still play great. But gaming can and has improved over time, I can't believe that's even a question. And can you seriously, honestly say that there's not a single game you enjoyed at first that you've then gone back to and kinda felt eugggh about? Frankly, I wont believe you if you say no. And even if you don't, the hypothesis that "oh, people who don't like it now wouldn't have liked it then" is absurd. Sure, some fit that label, but there are plenty who liked certain old games but feel, in light of modern game design, they're just too clunky or primitive to enjoy. It's fine to disagree about which games are hit hard by this but denying the phenomenon at all is madness.

You're missing the point.

There are absolutely old games that are hard to go back and play, but those games were bad when they were new. Take Golgo 13 "Top Secret Episode" on the NES for example. That game is almost impossible to go back and play. But it was also almost impossible to play when it was new. That's just a POORLY DESIGNED GAME. (which I loved) And yes, it is absolutely hard to go back and enjoy poorly designed games.

Contrast that with something like Faxanadu on the NES. I remember loving that game to death, but I can't go back and play it now because it takes too much time to play, and I just don't have that much time as an adult.

FAXANADU HAS NOT CHANGED. I HAVE CHANGED.

Vinny put it perfectly when he was doing the quicklook of Dark Souls, or Demon's Souls. One or the other. He said that it was the perfect game he would have eaten up when he was a kid over summer break, but as an adult, it seems like it just takes too much time, and he doesn't have that kind of time. Dark Souls is not poorly designed, VINNY HAS CHANGED.

There are tons of "evolutions of game design" that Brad will point out as loving, like games that sell all your equipment back to the store with a push of a button, sometimes not even requiring to go back to the store. This is great for Brad, who plays so many games that he appreciates games that mostly play themselves, but to other people who buy 2 or 3 games a year, it's dumbed down gameplay to the point to being no fun at all. It's not "evolution", it's personal preference.

At some level, your right- It is us that's changed, but also, duh. ANY game only has worth based on how people perceive it. Thats the point. Our expectations have changed. It's like- imagine a top of the line computer from 1995. It was good then. Now place it in a modern context and, as a computer, its crap- computer design has changed, and people's expectations are different. It would be ridiculous to say, as your are, because it's crap in a modern context, it was secretly crap when it came out. Likewise, its dumb to say that, if it was good then, it has to still be good now. What was cleverly designed for it's time has been hopelessly antiquated by it's successors.

You're talking about hardware, which is COMPLETELY different than talking about game design.

Again, you're walking into the myopic trap of thinking that modern game design means that a game is empirically better than old game design in the same way that a modern computer is empirically better than and old computer.

Yes, a modern computer is way better than a 80386 PC. But Gone Home is not inherently better than Kings Quest 2. Game DESIGN does not evolve.

Does Gone Home have better graphics than KQ2? ABSOLUTELY. It came out like 25 years later. But that's technology, which absolutely DOES evolve. Game DESIGN is just trendy. As is influenced by the fact that Gone Home is a huge anomaly in 2013, that is causing a huge stir, but in 1997 it would have been on a shelf with a dozen or so similar games.

Avatar image for maccyd
maccyd

88

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@fancysoapsman: I keep hearing about mother, but what about the original mother? Is it bad or something?

Avatar image for jasondesante
jasondesante

615

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

#142  Edited By jasondesante

I hope once the WIi U sells enough units to sheeple that it isn't a Dreamcast, that Nintendo will FINALLY merge the Eshops and make all virtual console games bought on 3DS count for Wii U and also for every other Nintendo system. No more buying virtual versions of Mario 1. I've bought it 3 times already. No more Nintendo. Sorry. If you force me to buy Mario 1 for the 4th time when I finally get a Wii U, I will not buy eshop anymore.

Seriously hope this comes to 3DS!

Played it on the Wii, virtual console style. Don't ask how though, because then I would have to kill you. :D

Avatar image for suzukagongen
suzukagongen

23

Forum Posts

5396

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

The things you are describing about Earthbound made the game the most memorable. Talking to animals? Items that don't do anything. Signs that acknowledge that you are reading a sign in the middle of nowhere? Fighting hippies and crazy old coots? The game's imitation of real life was strange and intriguing.

Mother 3 is okay... it just has less of all the weird wonderment. The story's pacing was plain jarring. Where Earthbound's story rarely changes acts without your walking involvement, M3 changes acts, timelines and scenes whenever the fuck it feels like it. The themes are standard Japanese tropes that take precedent over the weird stuff going on. It's powerful but Earthbound is more memorable to me because in my mind, the weird stuff (especially the long ending part) just stuck out more since it was different.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.