Are Quick Looks and the Bombcast too long?

@Buckfitches: I don't think I can keep addressing this whole, "You're just asking for Giant Bomb to conform to your own schedule at the expense of everyone else," argument. I guess just refer to my post to DrSnaqrite at the bottom of page 15. I'd much rather have a discussion with the good doctor than somebody who's already dropping the words "shit," "hell," and "cunts" in their first post in this thread.

I love the long QL's, but the bombcast is usually too long for my tastes, I just don't have that kind of time to listen to it usually.

Why would you want less content?

@whatisdelicious said:

I'd much rather have a discussion with the good doctor than somebody who's already dropping the words "shit," "hell," and "cunts" in their first post in this thread.

Really? Your gonna discount what he said because he cussed in a online forum on a website where they cuss quite often, even though not a single one was directed at you? ._.

@Evilsbane: Not discounting what he said. I've just had to answer that same exact argument several times over the course of this thread. That he's already cursing and telling me that I "agitate" him tells me that trying to start a reasoned discussion with him probably wouldn't go over well. So I'm just referring him to the post I made just before his post where I addressed some of his concerns. Also, saying that I'm making the community look like a bunch of "whiny, ungrateful cunts" implies that I myself am I whiny, ungrateful cunt, which I assume was his point.

@whatisdelicious: But it is at my expense. I happen to love longer Quick Looks and Bombcasts, and would be bummed out if they were to shorten them, or feel constrained to keep them under 30 minutes, which for some games, just isn't enough.

And as for new content they could produce? There's a ton of completely new content and features in the last few months alone, and yes, they are mostly for the "hardcore GB fanbase", you know, paid subscribers.

I'm merely explaining why you are met with this kind of verocity in this thread. And the post you are referring to was made seconds before mine. So you can hardly expect me to have read it beforehand.

It's been months since I've seen a complete quick look without skipping ahead or stopping halfway through.

Yeah, I think they're too long.

@Buckfitches: You do, sure. But not everybody does. Just like everybody has been telling me to open my eyes and recognize other people's opinions (i.e. the point of this thread) people need to recognize that I'm not the only one asking for shorter Quick Looks or Bombcasts. Now, it's totally fair to say that a lot of the new stuff they've been doing has been for paid subscribers, and therefore, shorter QLs and BCs would be taking away from free users. But isn't that up to Jeff and crew, not me or you or anyone else in this thread? People keep saying that I'm trying to "take away" their content, but it's like, you guys do realize that I have zero power here right? Me posing a question to the community or sending feedback directly to the Giant Bomb staff doesn't mean anything. If QLs and BCs become shorter, that's not my doing. At. All.

Also, it's like people forget that QLs and the BC used to be way, way shorter than they are now, and were still totally awesome. I might even argue that they were more awesome (and I'm not the only one).

So while I appreciate how passionate the Giant Bomb community is, there's no reason for anyone to direct any of their complaints towards me over this. I expressed an opinion and asked for other people's opinions. If people disagree with that opinion (and many do, though many also agree) then that's totally fine. But the sheer aggression is still uncalled for.

I just listen to the bombcast as I would listen to any other radio show during work. Some quicklooks might stretch out abit, but then again, I'm not really interested in those games. And if that's the case I use my god given right to shut the player down and watch something else instead.

@whatisdelicious The reason I said you're ignoring people's comments is that you're not accepting that they might be, if not correct, then at least valid opinions. I haven't read through the entire thread, but most of the replies I've seen you make to people, even people who aren't using the word cunt, has been dismissive or simply reiterating your opinion. You keep saying you're just asking for other people's opinions, but you don't seem to be very supportive of other people actually having different opinions.

If what you want is a discussion, then you have to count others' opinion as valid as your own.

I really don't see why they need to be any shorter. If you watch 5 minutes of a quick look and that's enough for you just shut it off. There are quick looks I don't even watch because the game does not interest me, but that does not mean it should not be up at all, someone else might like it. Regarding the bombcast I don't see how your math computes your saying before you could listen to a whole podcast but because it went 30min longer now they take your all week to complete? Also, why can't you just jump ahead a little in the bombcast? Most regular listeners know the layout and if there talking about a certain game too long just jump ahead 5 minutes and see if there on to a new one. Not to mention you can usually cut out the 5 min from the begining and end.

I personally think all the content is pretty good length and if I don't have time to watch a whole quicklook or listen to a whole bombcast then I don't. I don't see how stopping or skipping through does not solve your problem, no matter what if they shorten it you will miss content they might have talked about and if you skip through the podcast or QL then you will miss some of the content just the same. I'm sure there are tons of users who listen to all the podcast, myself included. I put it on while doing laundry, dishes, and making supper and it usually flies bye pretty fast and I got alot of shit done.

I barely watch Quick Looks anymore. The entertainment:time ratio, just ain't high enough.

I'll join the minority and say yes.

No, I WANT THEM LONGER.

8 HOUR PODCASTS, 3 HOUR QUICK LOOKS!!!!!!!!!!

@WinterSnowblind said:

I love the long QL's, but the bombcast is usually too long for my tastes, I just don't have that kind of time to listen to it usually.

Ironic since one can multitask while listening (surfing the web).

I have a lot more time on my hands then I used to, so I think every Bombcast needs to be 5 hours long.

Seriously.

@DrSnaqrite: Some people's arguments have totally been valid. The recent argument that any new content they produce would likely be locked behind the subscriber wall, for instance, is something I totally hadn't considered. My counterpoint to that is that it's ultimately Giant Bomb's decision how to handle that stuff.

The argument that I can just stop watching a Quick Look partway through is also valid. I stop watching them partway through or skip them altogether at an increasing rate these days. I just don't get why they should be so long that a lot of people are just bailing out halfway through. Good content leaves you wanting more, not bailing in the middle. I just watched the X-Men: Destiny QL, for instance. Did that need to be ~40 minutes? Absolutely not. It was the same thing the whole way through, and they just kept going until there was just nothing left to talk about. Did Rise of Nightmares need to be ~40 minutes? Absolutely not. That game was so boring to watch. Did Kinectimals: Now With Bears need to be ~50 minutes? I have no clue, because there's no way I'm going to watch 50 minutes of Kinectimals: Now With Bears. So while I think the argument that I can just bail out halfway through is valid, yeah, I don't think that it solves the problem that the average length of a Quick Look is starting to exceed a lot of people's attention spans.

Etc.

Like I said, a lot of the arguments have been valid. But I can still disagree with something when it's a valid argument, and while I've qualified many of those disagreements I've had by occasionally starting with something like "fair enough," I don't think that the mere fact that I'm disagreeing with an opinion means that I think it's invalid.

@WinterSnowblind said:

I love the long QL's, but the bombcast is usually too long for my tastes, I just don't have that kind of time to listen to it usually.

Ironic since one can multitask while listening (surfing the web).

@whatisdelicious: the kinectimals quick look was pretty funny though.

Bombcast length is perfect for me as I listen to it during the day walking to work, getting the bus home, etc. in chunks.

Just go away. More Quick Looks and Bombcasts and less you will make this website a lot better.

@keris: To your first point, remember that Quick Looks never used to be this long. The Bombcast never used to be this long. Are you saying that, until now, Giant Bomb's Quick Looks and Bombcasts were just too short and that Jeff and crew couldn't (or shouldn't) stand behind them? 

On the second point, I have two things to say. 1) Apparently it's not just me that finds these Quick Looks too long. I've been surprised at the number of people in here that have said, "You know what? Yeah, Quick Looks have gotten a little long lately. Lot of dead air sometimes. I'd be totally fine going back to shorter Quick Looks." 2) Everyone is pretending like I'm trying to take away their content. I don't understand this at all. If Quick Looks are shorter, doesn't that mean they have more time to film something else? It's not like that time just disappears forever.

With your third point, I think you kind of nailed one of the reasons the Dark Souls Quick Look wasn't as good. They wanted to show off more. It felt way, way more "telling" than "showing." Rorie and Vinny just sat there and explained all the core mechanics to Brad, who barely had anything to say. It felt much more organic with the Demon's Souls Quick Look, which, to be fair, is partially because it was an unknown quantity at the time. But here, they didn't need to explain nearly as much as they did, or show off nearly as much as they did. If a person needed to see two bosses, a miniboss, enemy placement, traps, and how to deal with the first dragon to know for sure whether or not they'd want Dark Souls, they're probably not the Dark Souls kind of person. How many bosses did they show off in the Demon's Souls Quick Look? (Honestly, I don't remember. I want to say "none," but I'm not 100% sure. It's been a while since I've seen it.) Like, yeah, there were moments when that was a really funny Quick Look. Yeah, the bridge part was hilarious. Yeah, the end rush was so awesome -- but it took an hour and 20 minutes to get there. 

And finally, gotta tell ya, if you have to be "overly aggressive" to make your point, there's probably a better way to structure your argument.

@whatisdelicious said:

Good content leaves you wanting more, not bailing in the middle. I just watched the X-Men: Destiny QL, for instance. Did that need to be ~40 minutes? Absolutely not. It was the same thing the whole way through, and they just kept going until there was just nothing left to talk about. Did Rise of Nightmares need to be ~40 minutes? Absolutely not. That game was so boring to watch. Did Kinectimals: Now With Bears need to be ~50 minutes? I have no clue, because there's no way I'm going to watch 50 minutes of Kinectimals: Now With Bears. So while I think the argument that I can just bail out halfway through is valid, yeah, I don't think that it solves the problem that the average length of a Quick Look is starting to exceed a lot of people's attention spans.

Etc.

Like I said, a lot of the arguments have been valid. But I can still disagree with something when it's a valid argument, and while I've qualified many of those disagreements I've had by occasionally starting with something like "fair enough," I don't think that the mere fact that I'm disagreeing with an opinion means that I think it's invalid.

Isn't that the point of a quicklook to find out if you care about a game. Putting arbitrary time limits on games you think are lesser quality from the get go is bias, which is kinda what the GB crew is not about. You don't have to watch the kinecitmals quicklook if your not interested in the game some parent might be but if your saying that games like Deus Ex should get hour quicklooks where others should not because their not "quality", I have to very much disagree with you.

@whatisdelicious: "A lot" doesn't mean "most." And as long as a majority of the people who go to this website do want quick looks that long, or at the very least don't want shorter videos, then it makes complete sense to make quick looks as long as they are. 50 minutes is quite a bit of Kinectimals, but you know what? Some people want that. I listened to that video while I did other things, and I found it entertaining. Certainly not enthralling, but it's Kinectimals. I don't expect it to keep me glued to my screen. I wanted to hear some dudes say some dumb stuff while dancing around for a camera.

Let me put it this way: Giant Bomb wants to make good content, and if they hear back from their community that most people are getting tired of how long quick looks are, then they absolutely should listen to that and adjust the way they produce content. But if they feel they're able to make good content at the length of video they currently are, and most people are fine with that length, then they're probably going to stick to what they've got going on, since that's what the majority of people want.

This is what I meant when I was saying you're being dismissive of the people who disagree with you. While I haven't run a tally, I'd say most people in this thread responded with either they like the currently length, or they only think either the podcast or videos are too long and not the other. And yet you're saying their argument that if you don't like the length you should just not watch it is, while valid, not a solution to your problem, even though they're not here to solve your problem. Nor is Giant Bomb for that matter. You're a consumer of entertainment, and while it's great when producers of entertainment listen to their audience, if as a consumer you're not satisfied, then the best thing to do is to take your business elsewhere.

@keris said:

No, it means that the extra time they're not filming would be spent on editing, checking the flow, and reshooting if needed. From what I understand, they basically film the Quick Look and post it. That's the basic gist without the important behind-the-scenes processing. To make it shorter would take more time. Quick Looks are equivalent to a day-to-day journal. What you're asking for is a measured and vetted autobiography.

Having less footage means it'll take more time? Never thought I'd hear that argument. Though I guess it's based on the false assumption that I'm asking for a carefully crafted, slickly edited version of Quick Looks, which I'm not and never have. The shorter Quick Looks they used to do were never "a measured and vetted autobiography." They were just shorter.

The ideal QL length depends on the game and the Bombcast is too short most of the time. I wish Ryan wouldn't edit anything out. Just keep it 99% raw.

@DrSnaqrite: I'm not asking anybody to solve my problem; I was asking what other people thought. And consider the audience this thread is more likely to reach: people who frequent the forums and are hardcore Giant Bomb duders with plenty of time on their hands, or people that are busy with other stuff? Any tally you could get from this thread would be so heavily skewed toward the hardcore that it'd be irrelevant.

@whatisdelicious said:

@Evilsbane: Not discounting what he said. I've just had to answer that same exact argument several times over the course of this thread. That he's already cursing and telling me that I "agitate" him tells me that trying to start a reasoned discussion with him probably wouldn't go over well. So I'm just referring him to the post I made just before his post where I addressed some of his concerns. Also, saying that I'm making the community look like a bunch of "whiny, ungrateful cunts" implies that I myself am I whiny, ungrateful cunt, which I assume was his point.

Implies? Dude your reading way to much into this, but after reading through this whole thread it seems that everything you say is being ripped to shreds and no one agrees with you so keep on assuming.

@whatisdelicious: Sure, but you can't ask people what they think and then when they say "well if you don't want to see it all don't watch it all" come back with "that doesn't solve the problem!" You're wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

@DrSnaqrite: So I'm not allowed to disagree with people. Love it.

@keris said:

No, it means that the extra time they're not filming would be spent on editing, checking the flow, and reshooting if needed. From what I understand, they basically film the Quick Look and post it. That's the basic gist without the important behind-the-scenes processing. To make it shorter would take more time. Quick Looks are equivalent to a day-to-day journal. What you're asking for is a measured and vetted autobiography.

Having less footage means it'll take more time? Never thought I'd hear that argument. Though I guess it's based on the false assumption that I'm asking for a carefully crafted, slickly edited version of Quick Looks, which I'm not and never have. The shorter Quick Looks they used to do were never "a measured and vetter autobiography." They were just shorter.

• If they plan beforehand, they'll need to storyboard what they want to shoot. Then you'll have your less footage. You'll also lose some improvisation opportunities that the fans love.
  
• If they decide to stop at around some point during the recording session then they'll have to race against the clock to show as much as they can without knowing what to show. Think about what that'll do to poor Brad.
• If they decide to edit after the fact, you have the same amount of footage. But now it's got to be cut down.
  

@keris said:

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten everyone as to how any those are not more work? Keep in mind a more stressful recording session does equal more work. Perhaps you have a better idea as to how to get shorter Quick Looks with around the same amount of work?

The same way they used to do it.

@Cloudenvy said:

.....Get out!

The longer the Quick Look or Bombcast the better, for me.

@keris said:

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten everyone as to how any those are not more work? Keep in mind a more stressful recording session does equal more work. Perhaps you have a better idea as to how to get shorter Quick Looks with around the same amount of work?

The same way they used to do it.

Listen dumbass. They shoot a Quick Look, then they post it up. 

I think they are fine they the way they are. But it does take me about a week to listen to the whole bombcast, but I like it that way.

@whatisdelicious said:

@keris said:

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten everyone as to how any those are not more work? Keep in mind a more stressful recording session does equal more work. Perhaps you have a better idea as to how to get shorter Quick Looks with around the same amount of work?

The same way they used to do it.

That's what they do now, the same thing they used to do. It just so happens that sometimes now that means they go on for longer, just like there are older quick looks that are also 30+ minutes, and there are recent ones that are only around 20 minutes as well. Unless you mean you want them to go back to just one dude sitting along playing a game by himself and talking to himself. Because that's originally how they used to do it. Those videos wouldn't go on for very long, that's for sure. They'd also be far, far more boring.

So, unless you want one guy sitting by himself doing a quick look, you're basically saying "I want them to do things the way they did it in the past, which is how they do it now, but I want it like it was in the past, not the way it is now, which is longer (even though that's not always the case as there are a fair number of short ones being done as well but I'd rather not mention those ones), but I don't want them to do any extra work or make any sort of extra effort to actually have them be at around 15-20 minutes long, I just want them to only be 15-20 minutes long naturally." And you don't see the flaw with that line of thinking?

Heck, I even agree that some of the more recent ones could have stood to be a bit shorter (but not because they were 'too long for my schedule' but because they were filled with a fair amount of dead air), but the fact that you have this "no, I want it 15-20 minutes" and not "I want them to try and work harder towards having less dead air and be better at getting all of the information in a timely manner and if that means we still end up with almost nothing but 30-45 minute quick looks then so be it." mentality is just silly. Why do they need a time limit/structure? If you just want the quick looks to be BETTER, then time shouldn't matter at all. You keep saying you just want them to be shorter, not better. For as much as you want people to believe this has nothing to do with wanting them to adapt to you life and your time schedule, you're sure doing an awful lot of complaining about how they're too long to fit neatly into your life.

@yoshimitz707 said:

I wish every bombcast was 24 hours long so I would never be bored.

This...but maybe more like 23 hours.

@whatisdelicious: See, I've been trying to be a bit more understanding since you seemed to react very badly to me calling you a dick.

This is why I called you a dick. I'm saying what you can't do is invite other people to share their opinions and then dismiss their opinion as not solving the problem you have with the length of Giant Bomb content. A problem, like I said earlier, that isn't their responsibility to solve, nor is it Giant Bomb's responsibility. And you come back with a snarky response to something I absolutely did not say. Either you want people to share their opinions that potentially disagree with yours, or you want people to come up with a solution to the problem of not having enough time/being bored at the length of Giant Bomb's content.

And you wonder why everyone is reacting like you're being a dick. It's because you're being a dick.

No.

Also, how incredibly arrogant to assume Giant Bomb centres around yourself. I haven't played Demon's Souls, and yes, I did want the Dark Souls Quick Look to be an hour and a half, thank you very much. I do like the Bombcast being like three hours long, thanks.

This site and it's content aren't perfect for me, no, but I'm not gonna whinge about it like a spoiled child.

Christ, people complain about literally everything, there's a pause button...

Anyone else feel tubs of ice cream are too big?

Quit shoving the content down my throat! I might choke!

I really wish we could have more video and podcast content put up on the site. However, I understand that that would just make boring content as it would burn out the staff. The whole thing about it not being edited is what i love about the sites content and if you want more polished quicklooks and whatnot i suggest you turn to smaller vloggers on youtube or bigger content-sites as gamtrailers or whatnot.

I kind of agree with you about Quick Looks. It isn't even just they fact they are too long. 20-30 minutes is a good time, but I understand why a game like Demon Souls would be 90 minutes. I just find most of them boring. As they use QLs to replace written reviews, I feel it hurts the site in a way. I don't mind long bombcasts as it is easy to skip the parts that don't interest me. That being said, a three hour podcast is not a focused podcast. Rambling and constant diatribes are not entertaining to listen to.

@DrSnaqrite: You said that I can't disagree with people's solution to the problem of Quick Looks being too long of just stopping halfway through since I asked for their opinion. But why can't I disagree with that solution? I don't think it solves anything. If we both watch a movie together and I say that I thought it was too long, and you say, "Well, you could've just stopped watching," am I not allowed to say, "I don't think that solves the problem of the movie being too long"? Why are other people allowed to express disagreement with my opinion, but I'm not allowed to express disagreement with their opinions? Just because I'm in the minority here?

@keris and FateOfNever: It's the same technique, yeah, but now it's bloated. I'm not asking them to restructure at all, just to be more conscious of how much time they've already spent and how much more they really need to show or discuss. For instance, they should've stopped the X-Men: Destiny QL after about 15 or 20 minutes. That doesn't require any extra editing. It just requires them to think, "Well, there's really... not a whole lot left to this game. We've kind of shown everything somebody would need to know about it. Maybe we should just stop now." I mean, what's wrong with Quick Looks being quick? That's what they started off as. LIke, why do they now feel like games require an average of 30 minutes per Quick Look when they used to be an average of like 15-20 minutes?

Again, I'm not the only one who feels this way. Earlier there was a guy who said he hasn't watched a Quick Look from start to finish in months because they're too long.

@Cloudenvy said:

.....Get out!

The longer the Quick Look or Bombcast the better, for me.

^^^

But seriously, if anything the Quick Looks are on the short side sometimes. As long as they keep them within an hour, I think they're fine as they are.

@whatisdelicious: First of all, if we're watching a movie together, what one of us does affects us both. If you stop the movie, I can't keep watching it. If you watch what you want of a quick look and stop, I can still watch the rest without being affected in the slightest.

Second, you do realize you're the one who asked for other people's opinions, right? Nobody else started a thread asking you if you had any problems and how they could come up with ways to make it better for you. You didn't even ask for other people to come up with ways to make the videos/bombcast shorter and easier to consume. You just asked what other people thought. They responded, and now you're saying that other people saying it doesn't matter to them or they like the longer form doesn't solve your problem. Do you not see how asking for someone's opinion doesn't put you in a good position to complain about it when they give it to you?

Quick Looks, yes - they are too long and should stick to the original 20min limit.

Bombcast - no. Bombcast can never be too long as since it is audio only, you can basically listen to it anywhere and multi-task.

I am totally fine with the current lengths. Everything is as long as it is needs to be to contain the right amount of information and entertainment.