Anime elitism

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Black_Rose said:

" I don't see it as being "elistist" it's just a way to differentiate anime from western comics/cartoons. "

And therein the feeling lies/ "

Are you saying you'd feel better if everyone went back to calling anime "Japanimation?" "

Was that a bad term to begin with?"

To my ears it sounds wierdly offensive, though if we call it Japanimation why not call it Americamation or Europeanunionomation lol I beleive the word Anime derives from the Japanese word for western animation (Animeshon). "

" @Pazy said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Black_Rose said:

" I don't see it as being "elistist" it's just a way to differentiate anime from western comics/cartoons. "

And therein the feeling lies/ "

Are you saying you'd feel better if everyone went back to calling anime "Japanimation?" "

Was that a bad term to begin with?"

To my ears it sounds wierdly offensive, though if we call it Japanimation why not call it Americamation or Europeanunionomation lol I beleive the word Anime derives from the Japanese word for western animation (Animeshon). "

They minimalize and abbreviate English words in Japanese all the time.   Look up "Japanese English terms". "

Whoo, more internet argument.
 
'shounen' and 'seinen' roll off the tongue more easily than 'old infant to young teenager' or 'teenager to young adult'. The demographic they refer to includes stuff that can't be non-awkwardly phrased in english.

" @Pazy said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Black_Rose said:

" I don't see it as being "elistist" it's just a way to differentiate anime from western comics/cartoons. "

And therein the feeling lies/ "

Are you saying you'd feel better if everyone went back to calling anime "Japanimation?" "

Was that a bad term to begin with?"

To my ears it sounds wierdly offensive, though if we call it Japanimation why not call it Americamation or Europeanunionomation lol I beleive the word Anime derives from the Japanese word for western animation (Animeshon). "

They minimalize and abbreviate English words in Japanese all the time.   Look up "Japanese English terms". "

"Was that a bad term to begin with?  Just because one media is constructed differently from another doesn't change that they are fundamentally the same media.   Japanese movies are constructed different from Hollywood movies, but we don't call them "wasei eiga"....we call them Japanese movies. "

HATERS GONNA HATE. Jesus fucking tap-dancing Hector Christ.

" @neoyamaneko: "Japanimation" is not a Japanese word. "

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko: "Japanimation" is not a Japanese word. "

Japan does more than it's fair share of describing phenomena in English speaking countries with comparatively weird words as well when there are perfectly good English words.  What makes Japan better? "

" @neoyamaneko said:

"Was that a bad term to begin with?  Just because one media is constructed differently from another doesn't change that they are fundamentally the same media.   Japanese movies are constructed different from Hollywood movies, but we don't call them "wasei eiga"....we call them Japanese movies. "

Yeah, but some Japanese people take offense when they hear the word "Jap" (it's a war thing apparently", that's why we call japanese music J-Music and not Japmusic. "

" Whoo, more internet argument.  'shounen' and 'seinen' roll off the tongue more easily than 'old infant to young teenager' or 'teenager to young adult'. The demographic they refer to includes stuff that can't be non-awkwardly phrased in english. "

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko: "Japanimation" is not a Japanese word. "

Japan does more than it's fair share of describing phenomena in English speaking countries with comparatively weird words as well when there are perfectly good English words.  What makes Japan better? "

What makes Japan itself better?  What kind of question is that? "

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko: "Japanimation" is not a Japanese word. "

Japan does more than it's fair share of describing phenomena in English speaking countries with comparatively weird words as well when there are perfectly good English words.  What makes Japan better? "

What makes Japan itself better?  What kind of question is that? "

Because you'll excuse it when Japan does it, but find "Japanimation" offensive and "not a word". "

Ladies and gentlemen can we all chill out a little? Stay calm and civil, be cool before we lose our cool?
 
Thanks :)

I need to sleep so ill cap off the rest of my posts in this thread with these words.

Calling a "Comic" made in Japan a Manga instead of a Japanese Comic is not elite since they are so seperate things but I would agree that in the english sub, or dub, of an anime they shouldent leave -chan etc. at the end of names and instead try and find a way to make that information flow in the sentance like it would in a natural english sentance. While I would accept leaving Zanpacto (though it isnt spelt right) in the dub since it means something more than just "Soul Reapers Sword). That line for me is the line of an elitist, the fan-sub with -chan etc. all over it is potentially elitist but the dub with flowing sentances and japanese nouns, like Zanpacto, are not eliteist in my eyes.

As a sub-culture Anime and Manga fans are no more elite than Video game fans, automotive fans or fishing fans they simple express it in diffrent ways.

i don't even know the english equivalent of shonen, but i know what type of anime that would be. 

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko: "Japanimation" is not a Japanese word. "

Japan does more than it's fair share of describing phenomena in English speaking countries with comparatively weird words as well when there are perfectly good English words.  What makes Japan better? "

What makes Japan itself better?  What kind of question is that? "

Because you'll excuse it when Japan does it, but find "Japanimation" offensive and "not a word". "

"Japan-imation, not Jap-animation. "

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko: "Japanimation" is not a Japanese word. "

Japan does more than it's fair share of describing phenomena in English speaking countries with comparatively weird words as well when there are perfectly good English words.  What makes Japan better? "

What makes Japan itself better?  What kind of question is that? "

Because you'll excuse it when Japan does it, but find "Japanimation" offensive and "not a word". "

I believe your original argument was why are we using Japanese words when we have perfectly good English ones.  Japanimation is not a word that originated independent of anime.  Also, as AgentJ says, it sounds stupid. "

" @neoyamaneko said:

"Japan-imation, not Jap-animation. "

 Then why the hell should we call American animation cartoons? let's just call it Amerinimation!    That's AMERI-NIMATION in case you didn't get it.      "

" @Black_Rose said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

"Japan-imation, not Jap-animation. "

 Then why the hell should we call American animation cartoons? let's just call it Amerinimation!    That's AMERI-NIMATION in case you didn't get it.      "

Bitter much?  Just admit you read the portmanteau wrong. "

" @neoyamaneko: So why not just call it anime and be done with it? "

Something similar to this happens over at Last.fm for all the Japanese music artists. Of course, listeners have their names tagged in both kanji and romanized spellings and the two ways split up the total plays, creating a separate page for each name variant. Of course, all the fucking annoying ass shit whatever-the-hell-they-are have voted to keep the artists' kanji pages as the default ones. 
 
The problem is, most people can't display Japanese characters on their computers, so the romanized name page ends up getting the majority of the scrobbled plays. Say you're the top listener for the week for Nobuo Uematsu -- unless you have him tagged in kanji, you won't be on the vaunted default page. That's not really a big deal, but it's really irritating they are split up at all. What bothers me more is that I'm the only one defending the logic of making the more popular page (the romanized one) the default. 
 
As this is an example of someone else's stupid nerd ways (perhaps even Japanophile elitism) infringing on my own hobby, no, I can't stand it.

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko: So why not just call it anime and be done with it? "

Because it's just not meant for Japanese style cartoons, perhaps? In Japan, they don't call Wolverine and the X-Men a "cartoon".  It's called "anime" the same as the rest. "

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Black_Rose said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

"Japan-imation, not Jap-animation. "

 Then why the hell should we call American animation cartoons? let's just call it Amerinimation!    That's AMERI-NIMATION in case you didn't get it.      "

Bitter much?  Just admit you read the portmanteau wrong. "

Now you're just baiting. "

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko: So why not just call it anime and be done with it? "

Because it's just not meant for Japanese style cartoons, perhaps? In Japan, they don't call Wolverine and the X-Men a "cartoon".  It's called "anime" the same as the rest. "

It's the definition that was given to the word when it was borrowed into the English language.  Would you prefer that English be policed much the same way that the French government strictly regulates what words are and aren't allowed as "official" French? "

If you are really advocating not having a seperate word for Anime and just calling it cartoons the way they do X-Men in Japan, then I doubt anything we say will get through to you

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko: So why not just call it anime and be done with it? "

Because it's just not meant for Japanese style cartoons, perhaps? In Japan, they don't call Wolverine and the X-Men a "cartoon".  It's called "anime" the same as the rest. "

It's the definition that was given to the word when it was borrowed into the English language.  Would you prefer that English be policed much the same way that the French government strictly regulates what words are and aren't allowed as "official" French? "

So, you're allowed to take the words from Japanese, but change the definitions as you see fit? "

" Bitter much?  Just admit you read the portmanteau wrong. "

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko: So why not just call it anime and be done with it? "

Because it's just not meant for Japanese style cartoons, perhaps? In Japan, they don't call Wolverine and the X-Men a "cartoon".  It's called "anime" the same as the rest. "

It's the definition that was given to the word when it was borrowed into the English language.  Would you prefer that English be policed much the same way that the French government strictly regulates what words are and aren't allowed as "official" French? "

So, you're allowed to take the words from Japanese, but change the definitions as you see fit? "

You don't get how this whole linguistic borrowing thing works, apparently. "

" @neoyamaneko said: 

" Bitter much?  Just admit you read the portmanteau wrong. "

It's Jap-animation as much as it is Japan-imation and Japa-nimation. It's a ridiculous term that is uneeded because we ALREADY HAVE ONE.  "

" If you are really advocating not having a seperate word for Anime and just calling it cartoons the way they do X-Men in Japan, then I doubt anything we say will get through to you "

Denial just isn't a river in Egypt. "

You guys still at it? You do know we're getting nowhere at this stage since everyone has their own opinions which in the internet, has the value of nothing.

" @neoyamaneko: You do realize that at this point you are the only one fighting your side of this? Maybe you should consider the fact that you barked up the wrong tree. Arguing that we shouldn't use "anime" to designate that sort of animation is ridiculous, and I doubt that was your original intention "

" @neoyamaneko said: 

Denial just isn't a river in Egypt. "

Ok, now you're just trolling. "

" Says the guy who just got finished mocking me because I called out his misreading of a portmanteau. Pot, meet kettle. "

" @atejas said:

" Whoo, more internet argument.  'shounen' and 'seinen' roll off the tongue more easily than 'old infant to young teenager' or 'teenager to young adult'. The demographic they refer to includes stuff that can't be non-awkwardly phrased in english. "

7-12 13-18  That wasn't so hard. And look at that: even fewer character were typed. "

" @AgentJ said:

" @neoyamaneko: You do realize that at this point you are the only one fighting your side of this? Maybe you should consider the fact that you barked up the wrong tree. Arguing that we shouldn't use "anime" to designate that sort of animation is ridiculous, and I doubt that was your original intention "

I'm arguing your fervor in trying to put Japanese animation on a pedestal when the Japanese don't even do that. "

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

" @Black_Rose said:

" @neoyamaneko said:

"Japan-imation, not Jap-animation. "

 Then why the hell should we call American animation cartoons? let's just call it Amerinimation!    That's AMERI-NIMATION in case you didn't get it.      "

Bitter much?  Just admit you read the portmanteau wrong. "

Now you're just baiting. "

Me?   As if:" That's AMERI-NIMATION in case you didn't get it."  after clearly reading the word wrong isn't baiting.  I had nothing to do with him looking for a racial term in the word. "

" @AgentJ said:

" If you are really advocating not having a seperate word for Anime and just calling it cartoons the way they do X-Men in Japan, then I doubt anything we say will get through to you "

They call X-Men "anime" in Japan.   They don't discriminate.  Will you criticize their classification system as you are doing mine? "

" @neoyamaneko: You are quickly wearing my good will thin here.  Perhaps I should recant my aplogy.  When borrowing words from another language, the meaning ascribed to it in its new language can either be identical to that of its parent language or adapted to fit as new terminology.  Perhaps it's something unique to the parent language's home culture, or perhaps its something that is merely used as a means to describe something that is different enough to warrant its own descriptor.  Case in point:  What an American typically thinks of as a futon (a bed that can fold into a couch) is different from the original Japanese concept of a futon, which is a mat that one lays out on the floor and folds up when not in use.  Similarly, in Japanese, anime refers to animation in general.  In English, anime refers to animation produced in Japan. "

" @neoyamaneko said:

" Says the guy who just got finished mocking me because I called out his misreading of a portmanteau. Pot, meet kettle. "

Key word: mocking. Because seriously, your argument is laughable.  "

" @Hailinel said:

" @neoyamaneko: You are quickly wearing my good will thin here.  Perhaps I should recant my aplogy.  When borrowing words from another language, the meaning ascribed to it in its new language can either be identical to that of its parent language or adapted to fit as new terminology.  Perhaps it's something unique to the parent language's home culture, or perhaps its something that is merely used as a means to describe something that is different enough to warrant its own descriptor.  Case in point:  What an American typically thinks of as a futon (a bed that can fold into a couch) is different from the original Japanese concept of a futon, which is a mat that one lays out on the floor and folds up when not in use.  Similarly, in Japanese, anime refers to animation in general.  In English, anime refers to animation produced in Japan. "

Well, when you re-enter a thread being condescending instead of being just downright hostile, the goodwill of the original aplogy is meaningless anyway.  And the futon analogy isn't very strong, either,  seeing how a western futon is an "evolution" of the original Japanese futon.  It took the original concept and "improved" on it so much that they became two different things, but they still use the same word.  Anime has been a general term in Japan for all animation.  The west never tried to improve or evolve the concept, but the fanbase has made the artforms separate from each other.  The East/West terminology of futon and anime are very divergent from each other. "

Sorry to get off topic (yeesh!) but stuff like this bothers the heck out of me, too. I guess Atlus was wrong to translate it to Demi-Fiend. Way to show 'em, fanboys! That'll really stick it to their gullet.

"Nice reveal. Now who's the troll? "

" Sorry to get off topic (yeesh!) but stuff like this bothers the heck out of me, too. I guess Atlus was wrong to translate it to Demi-Fiend. Way to show 'em, fanboys! That'll really stick it to their gullet. "

As an aside, I find the nature of my participation in this thread ironic given that earlier today on another message board, I was actually defending Atlus's use of an English dub in Persona 4 from a fanboy that found the dub completely repulsive and refused to play the game without some sort of language patch to put the Japanese voices back in.

" As an aside, I find the nature of my participation in this thread ironic given that earlier today on another message board, I was actually defending Atlus's use of an English dub in Persona 4 from a fanboy that found the dub completely repulsive and refused to play the game without some sort of language patch to put the Japanese voices back in. "