The Wrestling Discussion Thread - AEW Dynamite This Wednesday

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Gundato

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@shiftygism: Not talking about her wrestling experience.

Talking about her being a fucking TERF and a sandy hook truther.

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Retris

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@shiftygism:AJ Styles was a known racist, homophobe and anti-science, and they still hired him. Heck, if you want to argue that he's famous, they hired the 4chan racist alt-right dude, and I don't even remember his name. Then they gave him a big win on one of those Saudi shows. Those two of the top of my head, I don't really know WWE's roster right now.

@gundato: Brian Cage has good spots but he's definitely not a good wrestler. He worked in Lucha Underground because those matches were heavily edited, but for example his PWG run was botchy as all hell, especially by the end of it when he ballooned up even more ridiculously than he had been previously

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Gundato

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@retris:I am always hesitant to name drop AJ since it sounds like he might have gotten better (or at least learned to shut up), but yeah, was definitely thinking of him too.

I think Brock is also on record for some really shitty stuf? But he might count as a "Legend" as far as the stipulations went.

It's wrestling. It's a minefield.

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Shiftygism

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@gundato: Having differing politics and posting stupid shit when you're high doesn't make you "toxic." Yes, she failed with the Sandy Hook apology, but I chalk that more up to her longstanding history of lacking self-awareness and not having the best communication skills which she herself has admitted having issues with more than the hyperbolic notion she's an actual truther, something that usually sets me off being close to the VT and WDBJ tragedies.

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Gundato

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#43655  Edited By Gundato

@shiftygism: And I'm sure Tessa was just high or whatever too. Randy just had a heated gamer moment with a soft A. Hogan just didn't know there was a microphone but instinctively felt the need to play a character. Whatever

Look. I am not having the conversation on why TERFs and the like "aren't that bad" or "she just didn't know what she was saying". This ain't reddit and this is not the venue for it

If those don't bother you: Fine. I guess WWE has never paid a problematic person. End of discussion

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Retris

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@gundato: Nah. AJ definitely hadn't gotten better by his hiring. He's just more media trained now. Either way, the point about Mansoor (had to check up his name) still stands. His only claim to fame before getting signed by WWE was that he had shouted anti-semitic stuff in 4chan's raid of that Shia LaBeouf video thing (that Austin Walker also appeared on).

@shiftygism: Transphobia and malevolent conspiracy theory apologism is A Take. Please take a step back and think about what you're doing.

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Shiftygism

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#43657  Edited By Shiftygism

Comparing Rousey to Hogan, Randy, and Tessa is laughable.

Anyone that has watched her personal videos know the girl comes off high as a kite 95% of the time, and if we're gonna be so quick to demonize everyone that has regurgitated something stupid online, we're gonna be cutting off a lot of family members because what Ronda did in that instance was a classic "Aunt that believes everything posted on Facebook" move and this black or white quick to cancel society we've found ourselves in is horseshit.

People fuck up, you gotta be able to separate the good from the bad, including the folks that slip up from those that obviously have deep underlying issues, and I haven't seen reason enough to place Rousey in the same camp as notorious repeat offender like Hogan.

Also regarding the TERF stuff, I'm not going there either, but then again I'm not in her or a similar position, so my opinion...as well as most people's...don't matter much.

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Retris

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It's weird how the Tessa Blanchard thing seems to have degraded to white people yelling at wrestlers of colour for defending Tessa, or at least how I see it. Especially Big Swole getting yelled at even though she's been involved in the situation seems rough. Also the other shit (pun intended) going around that's blatantly false getting spread around as fact just makes all this seem like petty trashing, which is sad because the lede is getting buried.

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Retris

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#43659  Edited By Retris

And because I realized I'm tend to be vague, I'll post more for the people who do not compulsively follow social media like I do.

First thing that is important about Tessa case is that the victim said that they've buried the hatched earlier.

But it's been intentionally ignored for some reason. Also see the thread that this is a reply to for the context of what actually happened.

Second, I feel like people do not seem to know Tessa's reputation. Back then she used to be almost as cocky as Randy Orton was at her age, mostly due to same reasons. There was plenty of shit about her getting into fights. Not sure but I've understood that she's calmed down in Impact.

Third, what's being ignored is that this stuff started with Chelsea Green aka Laurel Van Ness, who is known to have beef with Tessa and is completely unrelated to the case against Tessa. It's pretty clear that it was an intentionally just when Tessa was going to win the big title. Chelsea Green is also a Hulk Hogan stan and defender.

Fourth, the whole racism accusation is just weird, because everything else known about Tessa just points to it being the opposite. Then again, she probably is one of those people who likes to pretend they're African American. The Eminems of the world, if you will.

Edit: Re-reading this post, I'mma be honest, this is still a rough, shitty take from me. Apologies. It's just a fucking shitty situation all round and I hate how all nuance is getting lost.

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Gundato

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#43660  Edited By Gundato

@retris: For me at least, the issue isn't that she used to be a piece of shit. Kids are stupid and there must be something in that legacy DNA that can make folk like Orton

My issue is that she is STILL a piece of shit. She has been given multiple opportunities since this started to say "Look. I used to do a lot of bad stuff. That is on me and I have apologized for it. And I will continue to apologize if my actions hurt anyone. Now who is ready for some wrestling!". See Scorpio Sky who not only still owns his past shittiness but brings it up to make a point

Instead, unless I have missed something, she continues to act as though none of that was a big deal and is taking the "if I ignore it it will go away" route. And it probably will. And that will just encourage her to keep doing shitty stuff because none of it will stick or, if she is really lucky, it will be a funny story people tell.

As for the lynch mob continuing: Part of that is because people are stupid. Part of it is "just because your friend is black doesn't mean you can't be racist".

But I think most of it is that people have seen this happen so many times before. Multiple WWE wrestlers (including Big E?) seem to have been forced to make public twitter apologies/"we made amends" commends regarding Hogan. Obviously there is a big difference between "people who work for the same company" protecting an asset and "people in rival promotions" doing it, but a lot of people seem to think it is WWE and Everyone Else (and AEW do their best to make people think that).

----

As for the poopy tape allegations: Probably fake, but who cares? Its legal and kinkshaming is for losers. As long as she didn't make a bunch of shitty comments against folk who do stuff like that then I have absolutely zero issues. Gotta make a buck somehow and that is the kind of stuff that is easy to fit in with the rest of a wrestling schedule.

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Retris

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@gundato: For me Tessa is almost secondary in this case, I'm just pissed off at how La Rosa Negra is treated. They're using a person who was bullied as a weapon instead of defending her. None of them stood up for her when it happened, none of them reached out to her in the days, months or even years following the incident to tell her that they support her. None of them cared that Tessa had apologized to La Rosa Negra. No, they waited until the bully found success and then tried to use La Rosa Negra to ruin her, without even consulting her beforehand or caring for what the ramifications for her might be. It just all makes my blood boil.

On the other hand, Big Swole seems like a thousand bucks in my eyes as she actually had mediated the situation. That's what a good person does.

Also about Tessa herself, I guess for me it's that I never had a high opinion of her as a person in the first place, so if anything the fact that she had apologized privately just made her raised my opinion of her.

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Gundato

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@retris: I would have to check the timeline again, but my understanding was that it was "she was a racist asshole to some black woman" and then LRN was outed as said black woman. It has definitely become more of a talking point than an event (when reddit is ever so briefly championing a person of color you know that things aren't as they seem) and, as expected, ended poorly for LRN.

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On a happier less drama note: Finally caught up with last week's Dark (AGDQ took priority) and this week's Dark. Was there something about the past two venues that led to so few dark matches? Both episodes seemed really short

Still. I wish some of the SCU stuff had been on Dynamite as I think CD would have benefitted from at least one (more?) spot of him being afraid to do the arabian moonsault before the Pentagon/Dark Order stuff.

The Shanna/Nyla stuff has potential but I think they need to at least have a promo/interview before turning in to indecipherable screaming and constant backstage brawling. But I like both of them and am eager to see where that goes. Also, shout outs to Goku (the genocidal maniac).

The Billy and Ass Boy stuff was fun. I am usually not huge on these fluff matches but Billy had a huge grin on his face the entire time and he tended to get the short end of the stick in WWE so I am all for him getting a brief victory lap to put over his son. Also, I never realized that Billy Gunn is the size of a god damned house. I also suspect he may be on about as much gear as PAC so... yeah.

But I hope that the over the top Shawn Spears stuff was a one off to try to appeal to the Memphis crowd (I am not that familiar with Memphs Wrestling) because it felt like they removed what little character and menace he had and turned him into a laughable jobber. The White Santa Claws stuff was fun but even that came across as more "Janella is a god damned lunatic but he is good in the ring". This was just making Spears the butt of every joke and making him look even more pathetic than Avalon which is saying a lot.

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Shiftygism

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The worst of Vince is seemingly rubbing off on Triple H, his "joke" about Paige is fucked up on so many levels. You gonna seriously slut-shame a girl who was slut-shamed to the point of having a breakdown? Paige bounced back, got herself healthy, and looks like a million bucks...so much so she should be managing Drew (or someone) as she's about as marketable as you could hope anyone could be in her particular situation, but instead you bury her on a recap show no one watches and insult her? Man, it would be nice if Florence Pugh chimed in, especially now that she's a big thing...or at least, Rock.

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Retris

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@shiftygism: That joke sounded more like Triple H than Vince. It's just that people have forgotten what Triple H is really like since he's become the NXT God.

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Retris

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So apparently AEW got their contract renewed on better terms and a possibility of a 2nd show. That's huge.

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Gundato

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Yeah. Triple H has always kind of been an asshole. It is shitty, but that is his normal shitty in every possible way

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On the AEW contract stuff: Yeah, been reading about the idea of a second show. Not entirely sure I see that going well. Logistically it can't be Tuesday or Thursday because two shows back to back requires a "brand split" or starts stressing the talent and crew in ways AEW is not ready for. And that leaves Monday and Friday...

AEW is averaging a bit under a million viewers a week and NXT is in a similar boat. Smackdown seems to be in the 2 million range. Even if we assume all the NXT/Dynamite viewers are independent of the rest of WWE, that basically gets them to parity without getting a significant number of new viewers (which is unlikely for a range of reasons). Which from a narrative perspective will really hurt AEW because "oh, it is only as good as WWE. I'll watch the show I grew up on instead"

And when you realize there is significant overlap between AEW/NXT and WWE, they aren't getting that 2 million. In fact, they'll probably lose viewers who would rather watch Springer shit than wrestling.

So that leaves Saturday or Sunday. Sunday has the same logistics issues during a PPV week but Saturday can work really well outside of starting to get into the WWE "six hours of wrestling" range. Once a quarter seems fine to me for that but I don't attend PPV tapings and am not sure how much truth there is in "Oh, it was a good match but after eight hours the crowd hated it".

Changing to Tuesday and Thursday could work but then the optics are "they ran away from NXT".

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Kingpk

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#43667  Edited By Kingpk

@gundato: TNT airs NBA games on Tuesdays and Thursdays. That's not changing to accommodate AEW. Giving them an hour on TBS might work.

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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The AEW thing is interesting. Good to see them doing well. I think they clearly have more talent than can be done justice in one show, especially with time for story and people on the mic. However I do like that it is one show every week and not so much commitment.

They already do Dark, so I wonder if they could maybe make something out of that and then add more vignettes and things and fill it out? Like I say I do think they already don't have enough time for the talent then have and for example on the women's side of things I think they clearly need to add more talent and time for that talent to work in.

I do like that the talent isn't as strained with AEW on a tough schedule (it certainly seems to me). I trust them to do it right and I think going further with their Dark idea makes sense to me. I think if you could add a bit more wrestling in and work with vignettes and things vs spend as much of it seemingly filling time with the announce team it would work.

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Dizzyhippos

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Gundato

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@dizzyhippos: Yeah. Darby straight up has that NJPW neck where he has been spiked so many times he is immune to spinal damage.

REALLY good night of Dynamite even if I felt the Moxley eye stuff is just lame.

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Milkman

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This was the kind of week that I think everyone was hoping for when this whole Wednesday Night Wars business started. While I wouldn't say AEW or NXT this week were blow away amazing or anything, both were super solid, very watchable wrestling shows that didn't I feel like an idiot for watching. That's all I'm really asking. Not to do the corny "the real winners are the fans" shit but thumbs up for both shows this week. Good shit.

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Dizzyhippos

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csl316

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DDP doing things was fun.

I don't follow too much with backstage wrestling things anymore, but based on the discussions on this page... holy shit, what's happening.

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Shiftygism

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You gotta think they're gonna have Bianca win the title, there's no way they'd have her come up short for a third time off a battle royale win. Since there's no Wrestlemania weekend Takeover this year, I'm assuming any NXT matches at Mania will be multi-person affairs, so I figure Toni will beat Rhea at Worlds Collide, Bianca beats Toni at the February Takeover, then Belair defends against both at Mania. Shayna's probably gonna win the women's Rumble if Ronda doesn't make a surprise return.

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marc

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@dizzyhippos: it makes for an excellent, entertaining commercial break

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Gundato

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#43676  Edited By Gundato

@csl316: Honestly? Its just another day that ends in 'y' in wrestling

Someone does something horrifically shitty (history of bullying and abusive behavior with a highlight of calling someone The N Word and spitting on them/calling their employee a slut on a podcast/taking pride in not paying their employees/etc). Some folk get pissed off. Discussion shifts to "so the entire industry is pretty horrible, right" with lots of fun examples and inevitably someone feels the need to lose their god damned mind and vehemently defend their favorite wrestler's shittiness.

All the while Joey Janella makes jokes about wanting to finally release his nudes but every day is another shitfest.

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Retris

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#43677  Edited By Retris

Jon Moxley needs to wrestle Jake Roberts, because he's a snaaaaake eateeeeeeeeeeer.

Also, no matter who the higher power of Dark Order will end up being, I'm going to mark. Especially if it is Raven, as some pitching has seemed to make it seem.

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Shiftygism

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#43678  Edited By Shiftygism

So I wasn't fully aware of the changes to WWE's ppv schedule. There's Worlds Collide on Rumble weekend, there's the Takeover in February, and then one in Tampa on Mania weekend. Figure in the Raw/SD shows, and that's seven ppvs in ten weeks.

Jesus...

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Dizzyhippos

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#43679  Edited By Dizzyhippos

@shiftygism: They are doing an experiment to see if doing Takeovers on Sunday helps their viewership at all. I would be curious to know if it helped Takeover Blackpool at all.

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Dizzyhippos

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Retris

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I still can't believe RVD's worthless ass got Impact kicked out of Twitch. One of the funniest things to happen in wrestling in recent history.

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InternetDotCom

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RVD getting Impact banned from twitch is one of their funniest moves.

Have to give Impact credit, there is always a fresh disaster

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Dizzyhippos

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