I was so excited for Mass Effect 2 prior to it's release. I got my Xbox 360 primarily to play the first Mass Effect, and it is one of the few games that I have played through more than once, and toyed around with the idea of playing through a third time. Which is why I was immensely saddened when I brought home my copy of Mass Effect 2, and was subjected to an actioned-up, watered down RPG, which suffered from the "bigger, better and more badass" sequel syndrome, with entirely too much focus put on fan service.
 

1. The game, while not being linear, is completely formulaic; go to planet and save Character-X, after you save characters Y and Z, character X has a loyalty mission invariably involving daddy issues (seriously)
2. There are too few weapons and armor to choose from in the game
3. Land on a planet, Asari walks up to me "remember when you saved that Rachni Queen? Well cool, now I work for her and we do stuff. What? No you can't actually see her and your actions don't really effect the game beyond this pointless conversation. Done? Cool."
   
4. 99% of your decisions from the first game have virtually no impact on the story whatsoever 
5. Mining is incredibly boring
6. Iconic locations, such as the citadel have been massively scaled down
7. The game emphasizes shooting over role playing, but it's still not as good a shooter as a game like Gears of War 
8. Your ally AI is terrible
9. The story really lacks a sense of urgency or importance
10. Loading screens with "Your decisions will impact the world in Mass Effect 3" are not a solution to long elevator rides
11. Having to suffer through a loading screen and a long hallway just to hear Garrus say "I'm in the middle of something right now, can it wait a minute?" gets old fast
12. The insanity difficulty is unbalanced, as illustrated by your teammates dying within seconds of each battle 

I do disagree to an extent, but your complaints are well placed. They didn't bother me that much but, 1, 7, and 10 are definitely things they need to improve.

You are role playing as a guy who likes to shoot stuff!  I love Mass Effect 1 but the complaining list for that game is three times as long.

" You are role playing as a guy who likes to shoot stuff!  I love Mass Effect 1 but the complaining list for that game is three times as long. "

I like how people think that ROLE PLAYING (like, you know, in PLAYING A ROLE) is all about stiff mechanics, tables and numbers. Especially amusing when you realise that a stiff, too-close-to-a-D&D-cRPG mechanic never really worked in the first Mass Effect.

Also, the complain about ME2 lacking a sense of urgency is probably the weirdest ever.

" @tooPrime said:

" You are role playing as a guy who likes to shoot stuff!  I love Mass Effect 1 but the complaining list for that game is three times as long. "

Maybe, but my complaints with the first game were lesser because a) it was the first game, and I assumed they would be addressed in the sequel, and b) most of my complaints were minor, such as the Mako controls, the inventory system, and the pop-in/slowdown, all of which I could live with because the rest of the game was so fantastic. "

"

I like how people think that ROLE PLAYING (like, you know, in PLAYING A ROLE) is all about stiff mechanics, tables and numbers. Especially amusing when you realise that a stiff, too-close-to-a-D&D-cRPG mechanic never really worked in the first Mass Effect.

Also, the complain about ME2 lacking a sense of urgency is probably the weirdest ever.

"

I can agree with most of what you're saying, but when I played through ME2 the first time I was so absorbed in the game I barely remembered to eat and sleep.

Here's a good article about the good and bad of ME2.

http://www.pentadact.com/index.php/2010-01-30-the-best-and-the-worst-of-mass-effect-2-spoiler-safe
 
I agree with all the points the OP made. While I enjoyed it a lot, I couldn't help being dissapointed by it. I was hoping for another long, absorbing, typical Bioware RPG. Maybe I need to play through it again without those expectations. I just think we who enjoyed ME1 find it hard to adjust to the shift in tone of ME2. It's almost as if Bioware wanted to appeal to a different audience.

I don't know how you can say the AI was better in ME1 than in ME2.  In ME1, I had to make sure my party members were even using the right firearm.  I'd catch Tali using an assault rifle even though she's got 10 points in pistols or shotguns.  Additionally, in ME2 Miranda would team off my powers so if I sent out a singularity, she'd follow through with a warp and *boom*.  Is the game actioned up?  Yes, since the shooting was broken in the first game and has been fixed in the sequel.  I agree that the mission structure was too formulaic in that (A) assemble team, (B) loyalty missions, (C) enter the relay.  But, it's that streamlining that creates the urgency in my opinion.  How can I dilly-dally around the universe like in other RPGs and not keep that sense of encroaching doom?  You could play Oblivion and barely touch the main story and yet you are supposed to save the world from invasion.  Finally, no one is going to argue that the mining was incredibly boring but I'll take that over the MAKO missions any day. 

I was initially disappointed as well, but the way I see it now, Bioware had two options: 
 
a) Go all-out RPG and cater to roleplaying sci-fi fans
b) take the action route and cater to the broad idea of a video gamer who just wants to shoot stuff and look at some hot TNA
 
They chose the latter, and why not? With Dragon Age, there is a proper RPG out there to scratch that itch, Mass Effect 2 is just trying to offer a fun action ride - and yes, I don't think it classifies as a RPG in a stricter sense, the labels "Action-Adventure" or "Action-RPG" (if you are really desperate) are better fits, I think. Of course, why label it at all?

what are they supposed to do to the loading screens, exactly? at least the loading screens in ME2 didn't take fuckin minutes (dragon age...)

" Here's a good article about the good and bad of ME2. http://www.pentadact.com/index.php/2010-01-30-the-best-and-the-worst-of-mass-effect-2-spoiler-safe  I agree with all the points the OP made. While I enjoyed it a lot, I couldn't help being dissapointed by it. I was hoping for another long, absorbing, typical Bioware RPG. Maybe I need to play through it again without those expectations. I just think we who enjoyed ME1 find it hard to adjust to the shift in tone of ME2. It's almost as if Bioware wanted to appeal to a different audience. "

" @Ghostiet said:
" I like how people think that ROLE PLAYING (like, you know, in PLAYING A ROLE) is all about stiff mechanics, tables and numbers. Especially amusing when you realise that a stiff, too-close-to-a-D&D-cRPG mechanic never really worked in the first Mass Effect.
Also, the complain about ME2 lacking a sense of urgency is probably the weirdest ever. "I'm not so concerned with Mass Effect having stiff mechanics, as I am with the fact that I used the starting weapon and armor throughout the entire game without any real reason, or ability to upgrade. Sure, that armor was whatever color and pattern I wanted it to be, but I much preferred having the many different armors from different manufacturers, much like in Borderlands. In fact, I feel like Borderlands was a much better "RPG" than Mass Effect 2. I feel a lot more connected to my level 47 Hunter Mordecai, than I do to my I-forget-her-level-and-name Shepard. "

I'll tell you why you went through the game with one weapon and armor - because it was more than enough. In the first one, you had tons of useless crap that barely changed in terms of damage and defense, not to mention the fact that 90% of them were useless from the start, also because it lacked any special abilities. There was no thrill in getting your guns and armor in ME1, in contrary to the mentioned Borderlands or Diablo. Unless you liked digging in generic "Hydra III" equipment and pressing the "turn into omni-gel" button all the time, while browsing through the HORRIBLE inventory screen.

Also, no. You feel that Borderlands was a much better "hack'n'slash" than ME2, which is true. In most cRPGs, like Neverwinter Nights, Drakensang, Dragon Age or Baldur's Gate you get the same stuff in every major encounter. In Diablo, Torchlight and Borderlands, it's random.

You have a very twisted - and, basicly, wrong - view of what a cRPG is, mistaking the term for hack'n'slashes and MMO's. Those games can survive solely on the loot-hunt. cRPGs without a deeper combat system and a great story struggle. ME2 has that.

Mass Effect 2 has faults and not-too-insane concepts - some of which you even highlighted, like the fact that ME2 took a pretty drastic way to handle the first one's failures. It can make a nice discussion, but at the time, you are complaining that your dog is not a cat. Which makes me think that you didn't even know what you were buying in the first place, as you seem to look for thrills that are totally not the series focus, and consider what the first ME failed at the best points.

Hm, agree with most of this. Especially 1, 3/4, 5, 8, 9.
 
About "9. The story really lacks a sense of urgency or importance", to me it kind of felt as though the stuff about the collectors was the side quest and the loyalty missions were the actual story. "Let's fly all over the galaxy, to some random planets and solve problems for some people I just met, which invariably involves shooting things, covering behind chest high walls, and shooting more things. Oh and if we have time we should probably also save the galaxy from evil aliens..."

" Hm, agree with most of this. Especially 1, 3/4, 5, 8, 9.
 
About "9. The story really lacks a sense of urgency or importance", to me it kind of felt as though the stuff about the collectors was the side quest and the loyalty missions were the actual story. "Let's fly all over the galaxy, to some random planets and solve problems for some people I just met, which invariably involves shooting things, covering behind chest high walls, and shooting more things. Oh and if we have time we should probably also save the galaxy from evil aliens..." "

How on earth did you like Mass Effect 1 if you hated Mass Effect 2. In my opinion it was the other way around while 2 was much better, I played through 1 twice and it was unplayable.

Numbers 3 and 4 are the reasons why I think anyone that heaps praise onto Bioware because they give you "choices" are deluded.

On Insanity and you will see the difference it makes in what weapon you choose and how much you upgrade it. 
 
Sure, you may have armor that only has maybe 5% increase to biotic powers. But if you equip a helmet, shoulders, chest, and greaves with all +5% power damage, you have yourself +20% damage. You need to do things like that to survive on insanity. Every little bit counts and it all adds up. Each type of weapon and armor has it's use and that's for more than you can say for ME1.
 
And about the loading screens - what do you expect them to do? So in the first game there was a live loading screen with an interactive camera and sometimes you get to hear your squadmates talking. People didn't like that, and then they made an actual loading screen in ME2. Now you don't like that either... What they hell are they supposed to do? Cut them some slack jeez.  
 
Number 3 is arbitrary. There is already more than enough content in ME2, and Bioware felt like they needed to save some things from the first game to carry directly into the third, even though most other decision will carry over from the first via the second. I am glad they did this, so now we have things from both games to look forward to in the third. 
 
Number 1 - the game is based on it's characters, and the game is about recruiting said characters. What do you expect recruiting members means? Putting an ad out in the classifieds and waiting until they come to you? How else would they have done this? There are plenty of twists in each recruitment and loyalty mission to make what you're saying extremely over-simplified. 
 
4 - You do realize that there were over 700 things carried over from ME1 to ME2? They had to make a game that people who haven't played the first can still pick up and play, while making the optional Character Import feature exciting for fans to see the universe in a different way. I know that for me, it was awesome walking in and NOT having Liara hug me. It was awesome seeing Wrex sit on his rightful throne. It's silly to assume they can change the main storyline to any major extent when some people haven't even played the first game.

I would agree with a lot of what you posted, but I still believe the game is amazing. The game had great polish and I enjoyed losing myself in the experience.

Do you really, REALLY expect a game without loading? What are you smoking dude.

" @Ghostiet said:

"

I like how people think that ROLE PLAYING (like, you know, in PLAYING A ROLE) is all about stiff mechanics, tables and numbers. Especially amusing when you realise that a stiff, too-close-to-a-D&D-cRPG mechanic never really worked in the first Mass Effect.

Also, the complain about ME2 lacking a sense of urgency is probably the weirdest ever.

"

I'm not so concerned with Mass Effect having stiff mechanics, as I am with the fact that I used the starting weapon and armor throughout the entire game without any real reason, or ability to upgrade. Sure, that armor was whatever color and pattern I wanted it to be, but I much preferred having the many different armors from different manufacturers, much like in Borderlands. In fact, I feel like Borderlands was a much better "RPG" than Mass Effect 2. I feel a lot more connected to my level 47 Hunter Mordecai, than I do to my I-forget-her-level-and-name Shepard. "

The game is excellent. That's all that counts. I couldn't care less what genre is does or doesn't fit into. Life's to short to dwell on such minutiae.

the game was incredibly fun but to me the biggest disappointment was the little rpg elements it had and how even those didn't really matter at all either

It's a weird thing, but I loved ME2 at the time. I was super immersed in it and felt it was a truly outstanding game, one that almost crafted an entirely new genre. But I more I look back on the experience, and the more I attempt to play through it a second time, the less fondly I judge it. I agree with the OP on several points, especially 1, 2, 5, 6, 7 and 11. For me it's mostly down to personal preference. BioWare did such a good job of blending action and role playing with Mass Effect 1, a game that should be remembered more fondly because it's so damn good, but they took it too far away from RPG mechanics with ME2.
 
I do feel like they were trying to dumb it down, so it would appeal to a broader audience, and obviously it worked. Jeff and Ryan, who are almost exclusively dumb action game fans, lauded that game above any other RPG-esque experience in years. Whereas personally, I think BioWare did incredibly well bringing the old school RPG into the modern era with Dragon Age, and that that is the best RPG in recent years, although I still rate Oblivion higher for this generation. The argument of "well Dragon Age is for hardcore RPG fans and Mass Effect is for action fans who like dialogue and good writing" makes a lot of sense, but as someone who likes RPG's more than action games, I wanted both games to be for RPG fans like me. BioWare has spent well over a decade crafting impeccable RPG experiences, and that pedigree shows through in Dragon Age. Mass Effect is them trying to evolve in a direction that is not suited to their talents, and while they've created an action game that is significantly better than almost every other action game that came before it, it just not as satisfying of an experience because the combat is too awkward.

I think   the game has really something good going there in its narrative.
 
I do agree, that the part where you're actually playing it is........not very  excellent. I'm only 10 hours in so maybe the game gets deeper? I hope so, I'm liking it  a lot.
 
Though juggling this and Strange Journey when I really don't have much free time  right now is probably not a good idea:(

"But I more I look back on the experience, and the more I attempt to play through it a second time, the less fondly I judge it."

" @Atlas said:

"But I more I look back on the experience, and the more I attempt to play through it a second time, the less fondly I judge it."

I hate to say it, but I kind of agree.  I really can't figure out why, but I've fallen out of love with it pretty quickly.  I kind of had the same response when I tried to go back and replay ME1 before ME2 came out, and it almost caused me not to buy ME2.  So, I think by the time ME3 comes out, maybe I'll be in the right mood for Mass Effect again.  But you're right, I totally look back more fondly on Dragon Age than Mass Effect. "

No

Personally I like RPGs that are primarily about playing and inhabiting a character and influencing events and thats true whether the gameplay element they add to that is a very competent shooter with some squad tactics or an old school number maximisation spreadsheet. The choices you make in the story don't all have to get called back later to matter, they matter enough simply because of how your actions define your character and who you are. Thats the point of the game.

Better buckle up, bitch, cause the action's up and the water's down!

Some things I agree with: the urgency of the main plotline, especially compared to the first, is toned down, but the actual role-playing (I'm not talking about what videogames usually constitute as "role-playing elements" like leveling and loot, but rather the aspect of role-playing your character which is rarely expanded upon in games outside of tabletop) in the game, I found, to be much much better. Nearly all the choices I remember from the first where taken into consideration in the second Mass Effect which really amplified the experience, from receiving emails from just about every freaken person I talked to in the first, to that little Rachni hint, which I thought was a great subtle touch to remind the player about what they did while leaving that plotline planned for the third.  
   
So, tl;dr: if you want to track your level and get loot, play Borderlands. If you want a rich, role-playing experience, play Mass Effect 2.

One thing you didn't mention  that annoyed me is the "Mission complete" screen. The game really tries to make an immersive and cinematic story but at the same time they show you a screen that basically screams "this is a game!" after every mission.

i liked the part where the whole game wall less RPG and more action space adventure.  
 
seriously. down with inventory management and the litany of other bloated crap games with the title "RPG" tack on to try and make people think it is some type of magical genere.  if i wanted to play a game like that i'd fire up my copy of item menu  and stat simulator 2006.

I doubt anyone would agree with me but I thought the dialogue in the game was actually pretty poor. The voice acting does a good job of making conversations entertaining enough, but with few exceptions there was so much exposition and the writing was so generic. If they had text boxes instead of voices I think people wouldn't rave about the dialogue so much.

It's a third-person shooter made by a company with a lot of experience doing RPGs. Deal with it. 
 
I'd like you to name some games you like, as I am sure they have small faults too.

There is always someone who will nit pick a game, good or bad... While I agree there are some "blah" things about ME2, It still didn't ruin the game for me, and I pretty much put it out of my mind while i play

" It's a third-person shooter made by a company with a lot of experience doing RPGs. Deal with it.  I'd like you to name some games you like, as I am sure they have small faults too. "

pretty much true but that doesnt stop it from being an awesome game

99% of your actions from first game dont affect second game? are u serious

The problem was that it wasn't a worse game, it was just a very different game. They changed it so fundamentally that they left behind a bunch of genre fans who are now bitching up a storm. Having a specific and inflexible taste in games doesn't make ME2 worse than ME1, deal with it.

And it is still better than all of the other RPGs out there.
 
Funny how that works.

It felt like a 95% gamerankings game, not a 94% or 93% (plz don't tell me to think for myself and don't go by gamerankings, I was just trying to prove it's a good game) There all complaints from the first game was adressed and you get alot more gameplay this time around for your money. It's the game of this generation imo.