This Game is starting to feel more like a Metal Gear game than a Mass Effect game... Shepard is just talking his ass off with very minimal input from me....I wish he'd cut it out...

I really didn't like how of without my input, but apparently a lot of others preferred it that way. Dragon Age 2 did that a bit but Shepard really does run his mouth a bit too much without your say.

Yeah, it's one of the largest flaws of the game imo. Even your actual dialogue options when they crop up are fewer and they're often much more so binary than they have been. It's left Shepard as much more defined character than ever before, and I bloody hated it for like the first 10 hours. I got used to it eventually but I still disliked it a great deal. The whole point of ME was less about effecting the universe via your own choices and more about shaping your own Shepard; origin, gender, race - and you virtually always having full control of the general jist of what Shepard will say helped me allow to actually sculpt some relatively different Shepards. I've got 5 in ME2, all with differing decisions and with each one I'll choose accordingly to how I'll summarise that Shepard's personally.

For ME3 some of those opportunities are still there, but they're still completely broken and now close to all illusions that I can at least play as my Shepard were washed away. I couldn't even import my damn face - the faces I've been using for these Shepards across both prior games =/

@CaptainCharisma said:

I really didn't like how of without my input, but apparently a lot of others preferred it that way. Dragon Age 2 did that a bit but Shepard really does run his mouth a bit too much without your say.

I wonder if like in DA2, your paragon/renegade rating determines how Shepard will say some of the automated dialogue. My first Shepard in ME3, who's primarily been full paragon, always sounded a little more sympathetic and understanding during those moments, which would seem out of character for a renegade Shepard. Obviously a lot of the more professional chatter can be chalked up to Shepard being a military commander and wouldn't exactly be influenced by either side of the tree, but there are moments where you would think you'd be given control (characters asking you questions) where Shepard will still respond on her/his own. It still sucks all the same mind you. They gave you near complete control of what Shepard would (generally) say for both ME1 and ME2, so it was a tough transition to get used to in ME3.

What the fuck did I say.

@LordXavierBritish said:

What the fuck did I say.

I don't think ME3 was a complete failure. Besides this still severe detriment and of course the ending, I think ME3 was brilliant. If the ending was more... not like the ME3 ending, and I retained the same ability to choose what I say, ME3 would of easily became my favourite of the lot. ME3 still managed to make a lot of improvements for the series I'd say in areas like the shooting, the customisation options and your squad interactions.

EDIT Oh, and the world-map exploration was complete balls as well... there's that too.

I definitely hated how they handled dialog in this one.

My Shepard was Paragon for the big choices, but generally he would snark and be an ass throughout the whole thing until the actual action came up. Except for Renegade interrupts, I always hit those. There's so much out of control with your Shepard that I'm hitting the paragon choice just to make sure he doesn't shoot somebody.

Now I just have one choice in conversations and it feels less exciting.

There sure were a lot of dialog wheels with only two choices in them. And when I clicked one of them, it sure felt like a lot of the time I wasn't deciding anything except what I would say.

Definitely. Way more things said without input, and I don't think there were many with 3 options instead of 2.

The stuff said actually fit in with my shepherd.. a snarky, sarcastic "at all costs" kinda guy, but I can definitely see this pissing off paragons or serious soldier types.

Yep, that bothered me too.

Yeah I noticed it, not a fan.

I'm currently about 10 hours in, and I have noticed. While I would prefer more choices, I still am enjoying the game quite a bit.

I like it when two choices come up and they both mean exactly the same thing, except one is Renegade because it's on the bottom.

I noticed this as well. i blame the new "action mode." Since all the dialogue is automated in that anyway, they probably cut down on the different choices to make it easier to program for that... or something.

truthfully there are no renegade options..just "kinda snippy" options...My Shepard was a mean, crazy bastard...but they have him practically crying and being all soft to kids...and i can;t do anything about it!!!...ugh...

@The_Ruiner: I wanted to run toxic gasses through the ventilation system he hid in but the game wouldn't let me.

As great as it was as a line, the thing that got me was "You big...stupid...jellyfish!" As a Paragon, I felt kind of shocked at my Shepard going space-racist on me.

Hate to say, but I don't really feel like I'm missing out on much with the so-called "choices": Paragon Response, Neutral Response, Renegade Response.

If anything, I notice a bit more follow-through on random topics, asking additional questions or having another comment on the matter.

I miss old school RPGs with giant dialogue trees as much as the next guy, but everything is voice-acted now, so it's more like an interactive movie. BioWare is the master of the illusion of choice :(

@Tim_the_Corsair said:

As great as it was as a line, the thing that got me was "You big...stupid...jellyfish!" As a Paragon, I felt kind of shocked at my Shepard going space-racist on me.

I love that line. I'm also a fan of Shepard's response to EDI's attempted joke about the management of oxygen.

I have noticed it, but I quite like it. It would be nice to have more options but I like that Shepard has his own personality now rather than being a blank slate that you have to completely control.

I think it's fine. The coversations are more fluid with now and this gives Shepard personality. But sure I get it if somebody feels like Shepard is no more YOUR Shepard.

I feel that the game's conversation system has been hugely streamlined / dumbed down (depending on your own personal opinion).

I find that alot of the 'options' simply give you two ways to say the exact same thing - obviously the thing that bioware wants us to say... :/

I think it's alright. Usually it's just Shepard inquiring for more information. Since I always chat with every squad mate after every mission, not entering a dialog wheel makes things go a little faster. And honestly, I don't need to ask Garrus if he wants to talk when he's calibrating shit. I also kinda hated chatting with Dr. Chakwas because she had pretty much the same dialog options throughout all of Mass Effect 2 and it took relatively forever since I had to watch her turn in her chair over Shepard's shoulder for some reason.

Action mode, where it simply plays conversations as cutscenes, would be my preferred way to play if it only chose paragon conversation options.

Action mode, where it simply plays conversations as cutscenes, would be my preferred way to play if it only chose paragon conversation options.

The worst thing is, the one of the two "choices" sometimes just impacts the line Shepard says (and the requisite Paragon/Renegade points, of course). I'm doing a Paragon run-through with my Shepard that goes way back to ME1 and I watched my brother play the start of the game as a Renegade. When he chose a different dialog response, literally the only thing that changed was what Shepard's line was.

That's not choice. That's even less consequence for your choices than an Choose Your Own Adventure-book. But that's limited to dialogue, I do love how some of your choices from previous games are surfaced in the overall narrative.

It has potential, but it has taken away too much to be good.
 
Not enough choice, really.

I like it way more when you pick a conversation option and it informs the next few lines of dialogue Shepard says, rather than just the next line.  It gives conversations the kind of natural flow that the first game especially lacks.  It lets two characters have natural back and forth dialogue, instead of Garrus saying a bunch of stuff, then Shepard says a Paragon line, then Garrus says one line in reference to that and then more stuff, and then Shepard says something Renegade.
 
@Mikey2D: That's the way it's always been.  The original was really bad, because they wouldn't let your Shepard say anything without prompting.  So you wind up in a situation where you get two options; "Joker, what happened?" and "Joker, status report!"
 
@Jimbo: Exactly.  People are doing that to themselves already by just hitting up-right without even considering what's going on, so why pretend like they're role playing at all.

I attended a talk about "contrastive juxtaposition" in Bioware games, and they highlighted the removal of the middle-road option as a feature of ME3. The talk had it's points, but I was constantly reminded of the infamous Donnie Darko "fear-love" dichotomy.

@mylifeforAiur: Man.. that face... while it's funny, it's mostly because of it's incredible stupidity. And what's even worse is that you see it several times over the course of the game.

@J0n3s1 said:

I think it's fine. The coversations are more fluid with now and this gives Shepard personality. But sure I get it if somebody feels like Shepard is no more YOUR Shepard.

I gave up on 1 & 2 and really got bored pushing buttons through the conversations. I played the demo of 3 and really liked not having to do that, thereby making the game more appealing to me.

@Ulain: dude I finished playing mass Effect 2 minutes before i popped in 3...It was not an interactive movie. In that one you at least had the choice of what how Shepard responded to situations. This is so much more stripped down. In Mass 1 and 2 how you responded effected how people treated you and how missions played out. The effects weren't huge but it at least made you feel like you had some control over how your Shepard behaved. In this one really doesn't matter what you say....you're just along for the ride. And for a series that prided itself on choice that just seems silly. This really isn't my Shepard..this is totally default Shepard...he happens to have my Shepard's memories but he behaves completely differently.....

I might start over as my paragon character...cause trying to play this game with a renegade Shepard just kind of breaks the experience...

There were absolutely more options in the previous game. It seems far more boiled down to Paragon vs. Renegade in ME3. I preferred it In the other games where I was unsure what the paragon or renegade choice might be.

As great as it was as a line, the thing that got me was "You big...stupid...jellyfish!" As a Paragon, I felt kind of shocked at my Shepard going space-racist on me.

People in focus groups hate reading, love turret sequences.

@Jimbo said:

@Floppypants said:

Action mode, where it simply plays conversations as cutscenes, would be my preferred way to play if it only chose paragon conversation options.

I'm surprised they didn't just give people a Paragon/Renegade option at the start and then play all of the appropriate dialogue. I mean, it would be terrible, but I'm still surprised they didn't do it.

Why terrible? What is the difference, really? Either it would always choose the paragon or renegade option for you, or you're always pushing up or down to make yourself a renegade or paragon consistently. That of course assumes you're attempting to play exclusively paragon or renegade (which is the way I did it anyway) but choosing the same option from the same spot seems barely more interactive.

@artgarcrunkle: *sigh* User testing should be used to check if what you're trying to do works, not informing what you do :( At least Valve gets that right.

@Jimbo said:

@Floppypants said:

Action mode, where it simply plays conversations as cutscenes, would be my preferred way to play if it only chose paragon conversation options.

I'm surprised they didn't just give people a Paragon/Renegade option at the start and then play all of the appropriate dialogue. I mean, it would be terrible, but I'm still surprised they didn't do it.

Why terrible? What is the difference, really? Either it would always choose the paragon or renegade option for you, or you're always pushing up or down to make yourself a renegade or paragon consistently. That of course assumes you're attempting to play exclusively paragon or renegade (which is the way I did it anyway) but choosing the same option from the same spot seems barely more interactive.

@Jimbo said:

@BrockNRolla said:

@Jimbo said:

@Floppypants said:

Action mode, where it simply plays conversations as cutscenes, would be my preferred way to play if it only chose paragon conversation options.

I'm surprised they didn't just give people a Paragon/Renegade option at the start and then play all of the appropriate dialogue. I mean, it would be terrible, but I'm still surprised they didn't do it.

Why terrible? What is the difference, really? Either it would always choose the paragon or renegade option for you, or you're always pushing up or down to make yourself a renegade or paragon consistently. That of course assumes you're attempting to play exclusively paragon or renegade (which is the way I did it anyway) but choosing the same option from the same spot seems barely more interactive.

They're both pretty terrible options. It's the most watered down & mindless form of roleplaying you could possibly have. At that point they should probably just drop the charade, create a fixed character and play cutscenes.

Agreed.

Meh, the Mass Effect series has never been good for creating your own roleplaying identity, simply because Mark Meer's voice really only fits "military guy". I was fine with the lack of dialogue options, though I personally would've preferred more Charm/Intimidate, and a little bit more room for shades of gray.

I haven't picked this up yet but this thread is really depressing me.

I feel like that quote that I heard that bioware is going for 'the CoD audience" is actually true now, they have been slowly moving farther and farther away.

I've noticed this too. Without my input, Shepard is kind of a wuss and the stereotypical 'leader-guy'. An example involved Ashley. It was at the beginning (so no spoilers), after Ashley continued to bitch about my Cerberous involvement. I tried to play nice but, eventually, I told her to, figuratively, 'shut up and get in line'. Then she got hurt and my Shepard, without my input, went brooding. He was brooding!!! My Shepard doesn't brood!

@Tim_the_Corsair said:

As great as it was as a line, the thing that got me was "You big...stupid...jellyfish!" As a Paragon, I felt kind of shocked at my Shepard going space-racist on me.

This was the exact moment it started to bug me, too. I'd noticed it before, and while I certainly preferred having more direct control over my Shepard's input during conversations ala ME1&2 (and having neutral choices instead of just Paragon and Renegade), I just kind of shrugged it off. But this specific instance was the first time my Paragon Shepard out and said something that seemed completely out of character for how I'd been playing him -- and without me telling him to do so. I mean the Hanar in question was psychotic, but yelling "You big, stupid, jellyfish!" was just totally unnecessary. My Paragon Shep would be angry, but he wouldn't be a racist asshole about it.

It also bugged me because the line just seemed sort of inappropriate for the gravity of the situation, shoehorned in for the sake of a wink and a nod. I know it was a throwback to a funny line in the first game, but in the first game the line made sense in the context of the conversation. In this instance, it just seemed really out of place and kind of forced. It was a much funnier reference when the Elcor said it in the Blasto 6 promotion, and I think that's where it should have stayed.

I think its a valid point but you really have to think of the scope of this game. You are taking 2 games that were extremely choice heavy and bring it to a conclusion. I don't necessarily think Bioware was trying to dumb down the conversations as much realizing they had to wrap up decision from the first 2 games while making the decisions you make in the 3rd game also wrap up.

Guys, it's Bioware. What do you expect? They're sellouts, get over it and stop pretending they never were.

The sooner you realize it the more you'll enjoy their games.

@Rohok said:

Guys, it's Bioware. What do you expect? They're sellouts, get over it and stop pretending they never were.

The sooner you realize it the more you'll enjoy their games.

You're the problem.

@JasonR86: EXACTLY!!!

@Tim_the_Corsair said:

As great as it was as a line, the thing that got me was "You big...stupid...jellyfish!" As a Paragon, I felt kind of shocked at my Shepard going space-racist on me.

Oh man I remember that, I was like what!? And yeah especially at the beginning and end of the game Shepard just has his set character type and you sorta influence what he's gonna say but not really, it worked out ok for me since I went Paragon but I imagine Renegades are gonna have an awful time with this one. The dream sequence things with the kid are just the absolute worst part of the game though. So dumb.

@Brodehouse said:

@Mikey2D: That's the way it's always been. The original was really bad, because they wouldn't let your Shepard say anything without prompting. So you wind up in a situation where you get two options; "Joker, what happened?" and "Joker, status report!"

But that's exactly what I want.

So I'm doing a second playthrough, and it's actually surprising at the actual effects your dialogue choices make. In the krogan female rescue mission on Sur'Kesh, when you meet her she asks what she is to you; "The future of the krogan race." or "A bargaining chip in an alliance." Her dialogue changes for rest of the conversation, and for each conversation at each checkpoint (ex: "Your 'bargaining chip' is still safe, Commander.") When we escaped and returned to Normandy, she references that line of dialogue in the med-bay and it changes Shepard's demeanor in that conversation too ("I figured a krogan would respect amibition"). The dialogue choices change more than the single line the character says after you, they effect entire conversations and future conversations. That's way better than having 3 dialogue choices that never get referenced again.

For example; in Mass Effect 1, Ashley reveals that she's religious and asks if it will be an issue. You get something like 4 dialogue choices, and she'll respond to each of them differently, but after that it's never brought up again anywhere. I feel like in Mass Effect 3, you'd get the two options and it would affect more than that single line of dialogue.