@mrfluke said:

yea they done good on the 3 endings,

but man that refusal ending is just a big fuck you from bioware

I have the completely opposite opinion to you for this. From what I seen on youtube, the extended endings are roughly the same, with some background variations and some retcons to 'fix' the original shitty endings.

I thought the refusal ending was the best ending there, it speaks to the actual themes of the game, fighting the reapers, sacrificing everything to gain freedom, and all that lark, as opposed to Shepard playing god and everyone living happily ever after. Honestly, the best ending they could have worked from was refusal, giving us more options from there, maybe, you know, utilizing all that fucking galactic readiness to influence how the battle turned out. It also used that scene where Liara shows the info box to Shepard, so I'm good with that.

However, here's where we stand, Bioware stood by their shitty endings, put in one that was much more interesting and should have been elaborated on more than it was, and really, there's nothing to say about the game other than, it's over. They made their choice, people still won't be entirely happy, but might be more at peace because they removed that goddamn DLC advertisement from the screen following the credits, I do think however, that Bioware have lost their magic, and that it'll be very difficult for them to create a game that won't come under scrutiny by potential consumers, because, let's face it, free or not, putting a more concise ending to a game in anything other than the original copy is just bad form, and really speaks volumes about how the industry handles game deadlines and quality control.

The altered original three remains crap.  But the hidden Refusal ending gained from shooting the "child" is actually decent.  Shepard refuses to use the catalyst, and the galaxy of this cycle is destroyed.  But Liara's beacon survives and knowledge is passed on to the next cycle, and it appears they have achieved an ambiguous peace.

They made a huge mistake doing this, its just gonna get more bad PR.

@NTM said:

@depecheload said:

@TheHT said:

@depecheload said:

They can try to elaborate on the consequences of the Big Thing That Makes No Sense. But it's still a Big Thing That Makes No Sense.

I have a question. If you're full paragon like my Shepard was and you save the Geth and the Quarian, does Shepard interrupt Spaceboy's stupid little bullshit and say "Hey fuckface, organics and synthetics CAN live together? Go check out the Quarian homeworld?"

If not, then that MASSIVELY HUGE plot hole is still wide open, and the developers at BioWare should be ashamed of themselves.

And still no kind of any resolution, resolve, moving on from any love interests either?

One example of new-born co-existence won't dissuade the Reapers.

Eh, maybe, but the fact that Sheppard doesn't even bring it up is kind of nuts.

I think you have to look at it this way, people assume once the war is over that the Krogan (whether they do or not) will want revenge because of the genophage, and you, as in Shepard may know that they won't, but not everyone does. Maybe after the war, in the future from there, synthetics will want to conquer or fight against organics. It's not really a plot hole. I mean, when you play it, you may be thinking "Fuck that, I resolved all the problems! I WAS THERE!" but when you think about it realistically, it may not turn out the way you want. Now, what I'm saying obviously doesn't really happen in the game, but still. I think that's the way you have to go about it. It's not a plot hole, you just have to think about it in a different way. I think the child can foretell or assumed at some point in the future that synthetics and organics would go at it again, and it's not so much about them being able to get along or not.

Exactly. This is the point people are forgetting. Because the geth are good does not mean the next synthetic beings to obtain sentience will be. Hell, the geth could easily change their mind in five years and decide that organics are holding them back from their ascension to the singularity and godhood. They've already changed their minds a few times throughout the series. I mean, look at the real world; wars are fought, and peace is made... and new wars begin again. Even in all the good endings, you have to know there are still criminals, there's still politics, and corruption, and racism. But for that moment, there was victory.

People are also acting like the Reapers are supposed to have a completely reasonable reason to be eliminating advanced life in the galaxy, and not an extreme solution to the uncertainty inherent to evolution. You're supposed to disagree with the Catalyst's methods for the last million years.

What people are really mad about is that they can't beat the Reapers in a conventional war. They need the Catalyst to be able to stop the Reapers, and they don't like what they'll have to do to lose in order to win. They don't like what they have to sacrifice (the geth, EDI, themselves). They want to be named Space Emperor Supreme and have the krogan bake them a birthday cake.

I imagine the slides at the end were done for technical reasons. Like if this was already 1.8G then how much more would of it been if that was all cutscenes? And doesn't Microsoft have a limit on how much data you can have for DLC per quarter?

Stop playing bad games.

After going with the refusal ending, I'm significantly more satisfied than I was during my original ending. I just wish it could have been expanded on a little more; I wanted to see the final battle as we're all wiped out. But of course this was added in late, so I understand why it's so minimalistic.

I haven't seen the other three, but the overall additional dialogue and exposition makes it all feel much more coherent and less so random. I guess this is the best they could have done given the circumstances they set for themselves.

Blade Runner: The Theatrical Cut.

I imagine the slides at the end were done for technical reasons. Like if this was already 1.8G then how much more would of it been if that was all cutscenes? And doesn't Microsoft have a limit on how much data you can have for DLC per quarter?

@Brodehouse said:

@NTM said:

@depecheload said:

@TheHT said:

@depecheload said:

They can try to elaborate on the consequences of the Big Thing That Makes No Sense. But it's still a Big Thing That Makes No Sense.

I have a question. If you're full paragon like my Shepard was and you save the Geth and the Quarian, does Shepard interrupt Spaceboy's stupid little bullshit and say "Hey fuckface, organics and synthetics CAN live together? Go check out the Quarian homeworld?"

If not, then that MASSIVELY HUGE plot hole is still wide open, and the developers at BioWare should be ashamed of themselves.

And still no kind of any resolution, resolve, moving on from any love interests either?

One example of new-born co-existence won't dissuade the Reapers.

Eh, maybe, but the fact that Sheppard doesn't even bring it up is kind of nuts.

I think you have to look at it this way, people assume once the war is over that the Krogan (whether they do or not) will want revenge because of the genophage, and you, as in Shepard may know that they won't, but not everyone does. Maybe after the war, in the future from there, synthetics will want to conquer or fight against organics. It's not really a plot hole. I mean, when you play it, you may be thinking "Fuck that, I resolved all the problems! I WAS THERE!" but when you think about it realistically, it may not turn out the way you want. Now, what I'm saying obviously doesn't really happen in the game, but still. I think that's the way you have to go about it. It's not a plot hole, you just have to think about it in a different way. I think the child can foretell or assumed at some point in the future that synthetics and organics would go at it again, and it's not so much about them being able to get along or not.

They need the Catalyst to be able to stop the Reapers, and they don't like what they'll have to do to lose in order to win. They don't like what they have to sacrifice (the geth, EDI, themselves). They want to be named Space Emperor Supreme and have the krogan bake them a birthday cake.

If you do the synthesis choice on this new ending, even if you dislike the fact that all organics gain some sort of advanced synthetic to their DNA, it is in fact the best choice to choose (I've said this before). The only problem is Shepard has to sacrifice himself for it, but if you really think about it, if you were living in that time in reality, you wouldn't be Shepard, you'd be one of the people living on (if you imagine yourself not being one of the soldiers that died during the fight), and being better as a human than ever before, life would be great for the most part I assume. Maybe I'm thinking too far into it, but that's one way to go about it to make it less bad.

Alright, for fear of ruining it with spoilers for me, I want to ask this simple question.

Is it really worth going back into the game and playing through to the end for the ending, or should I just watch it on youtube and call it a day?

OK, after caving in and watching the synthesis ending (which was my original choice), I can at least admit that that ending is a vast improvement over what it used to be. It basically ditches the whole Adam & Eve analogy for ''happiest ending EVAR!''. But I'm moreso glad that it has a bloody epilogue. It's nice to witness how everything falls into place afterwards, and I have to admit it felt pretty damn emotional. Even though I'm sure the other two are still going to be largely derivative of that style, I'm going to watch the destroy ending through my alternate save file. And the control ending I might save for that third playthrough I gave up on.

So, I just played through it. Still went with Destroy (because fuck the Reapers), and I gotta say, I actually liked it. The part where it got me was when I saw Zaeed chillin' out with a beer.

Don't really care enough to watch the other endings, because again, fuck the Reapers. But I like it. You've righted most of your wrongs, BioWare. Well, some of them at least.

@Brodehouse: That penny arcade comic wasn't funny when they published it, it isn't funny now. . And I'd say the issue comes down not to sacrifice, otherwise I wouldn't have loved the refusal ending as much as I did, but to the fact that the player is asked to play god with every race in the galaxy, kneeling to the will of an enemy that is clearly evil, and after all of that, even if you disagree with the catalyst, you still have to make a set of choices that undermine everything that was done to defeat the reapers. All of these ending, in my eyes, still count as a loss, because you make the same decision that the creators of the catalyst made: alter the universe out of fear of evolution, evolution that, as we've seen with the quarians and geth, the only two examples the game has every put forward involving conflict between synthetics and organics, can be deterred if both sides understand each other...you know, they're both life, they both deserve life, there's an array of themes there, but there alone. No matter what you do, you lose, whether it's all the life in the galaxy, the synthetics alone, or your organic life, you still lose no matter what you do. So really, what's the difference between the four endings? Nothing, you either die defying the reapers and allow the next cycle to fight them more effectively, or you corrupt an entire galaxy by imposing a godlike decision you alone made for the masses, because...why not?

People never wanted happy endings, or endings without sacrifice, but what was put forward, even now, doesn't solve the issue of the game at all. In three out of the four endings, the reapers still exist, with the potential to slaughter and decimate everyone, with only one ending destroying them outright, but also destroying all synthetic life, a solution that won't last, that isn't practical or beneficial to anyone or anything. Only one of the endings has the player make a meaningful choice, refuse to side with any form of solution a genocidal machine has to offer, and instead, go out fighting (something I think could have been expanded upon with the galactic readiness and all that lark, allowing for even the slightest chance of victory) the way you've been playing throughout the three titles, sticking it to the Reapers because their idealogy means total destruction for no logical reason.

But again, the assumption is that these endings were in line with the original story of the first two games, which we know is not true, so really and truly, this ending to the game never really meant much, it was pulled out of the air, given conflicting themes, and stapled to the end of the story with no regard for past events, so out of all of them, the only real choice that makes any sense is the refusal ending. In the end, people wanted choice, and what they got wasn't influenced in any significant way by their actions throughout that title. They were simply shoe-horned into a shitty ending because someone leaked the initial ending to the story, and Bioware didn't have the spine to send it out anyway.

Also the catalyst was a serious deus ex machina that was never alluded to in prior titles, added specifically because everybody forgot about it for the first two scripts of the games. In that sense, I fail to see the argument against people who viewed the options given as total bullshit, nothing about this game seemed particularly coherent in terms of story, so really, I'd let people away with being pissed about how the ending turned out, it was a huge drop in quality and shouldn't have made the initial cut, nevermind the extended cut. In the grand scheme of things, I think people getting annoyed is kinda low on the list of problems revolving around this game.

It's a bit better, they at least closed several plotholes.

Sadly quite a few still remain (and even a new one is created) as well as the overall disjointed nature and the deus ex mahina. Green space magic beam is still a bunch of bollocks both scientifically and ethically. Destroy is now kinda messed up too, since the rubble suit is shown post rebuilding. The blue seems the most coherent. New Reject one is interesting but ultimately a bit assinine making it basically a choice between taking Catalysts word on faith or doing the stupid thing of not even taking a chance to potentially save everyone from annihilation.

Honestly I think i'd rather just put ME behind me at this point.

But at least the indoctrination theory crackpots have been silenced.

@depecheload said:

They can try to elaborate on the consequences of the Big Thing That Makes No Sense. But it's still a Big Thing That Makes No Sense.

I have a question. If you're full paragon like my Shepard was and you save the Geth and the Quarian, does Shepard interrupt Spaceboy's stupid little bullshit and say "Hey fuckface, organics and synthetics CAN live together? Go check out the Quarian homeworld?"

If not, then that MASSIVELY HUGE plot hole is still wide open, and the developers at BioWare should be ashamed of themselves.

And still no kind of any resolution, resolve, moving on from any love interests either?

I don't like either of these sets of endings because they're full of plotholes, but that's not a plothole. You could have said the same thing about them at the Geth's creation when they were on good terms and look how that turned out. They're arguing that peace won't last.

Analogy: They tell you hot food will always cool off and there's no way to keep it warm forever. You argue that it isn't true because you just put your leftovers in the microwave and it's hot again, therefore the concept of entropy is wrong.

The new green ending was swell! I'm really excited for whatever Casey Hudson does next.

@MEATBALL said:

Did rainbows explode from Shepard's nipples as a disco ball lowered from the ceiling and a crowd of dancing Elcor emerged from the shadows? If not, worst ending of all time.

Katy Perry Effect

@NTM said:

@pornstorestiffi: It's been posted on this very thread already. I'm guessing you went right to posting?

I'm pretty sure i checked all pages of this topic, and i saw no video. So please point me to the number its on, oh wise cracking man.

@MightyDuck said:

Alright, for fear of ruining it with spoilers for me, I want to ask this simple question.

Is it really worth going back into the game and playing through to the end for the ending, or should I just watch it on youtube and call it a day?

Just Youtube them. They're like twenty minutes a piece to get the full effect, but that's better than dragging yourself through the whole Cerberus base/Battle for Earth sequence just to see a cutscene.

Also: Control. Right, guys?

@pornstorestiffi: Maybe I didn't understand your question then, but if I did, here.

@mrfluke said:

yea just watched the synthesis ending on youtube, looks like they done good,

here are the endings if anyone else is interested,

personally was disappointed in the reject ending, that could have been the real fan pleaser, but that one turned out to be the real fuck you ending

Polishing a turd, which actually makes it less enjoyable. Instead of 4 minutes of shit, we have 20. Still poop.

@fusrodah: Right? It definitely wasn't the way I leaned originally. But after seeing the consequences of it, there's no way I can be argued into thinking it isn't the best choice.

Let's say, I'm less pissed, but far from happy. Whatever man.

Guess a mechanically interesting ending properly employing my war assets, that takes into account more variables from my decisions from all three games, and makes all of it more personal and relatable and rewarding, simply wasn't in the books for this one (way too much dollar and time efforts for zero increased sales). At least we get some 'proper' exposition now.

I'm over it - but Kudos for trying.

I thought they were fine, and synthesis still seems like the best ending to me. The reject option was a nice little bonus although I didn't even notice that I could pick it.

Maybe they'll learn from this and Dragon Age 3 will be totally amazing! Right guys? Guys?

@HistoryInRust: How is it the best choice? Doesn't synthetics die, and the rate at which things could be rebuilt are slower than other choices, specifically the synthesis choice? Personally, this was my third play through and my last decision in which I hadn't chosen before was synthesis, and when I did, I was happy for it. I think although the DNA is intertwined between organic and synthetic, which may seem awkward, for the sake of existence and moving ahead, it's the best way to go.

I like how they fixed Joker looking over his shoulder in the cockpit. They realized he wasn't in a car.

@NTM: Nah, not in Control, they don't die. Everyone lives, including Shepard, reincarnated as the Reaper Collective. And he has full control over his conscience and human sense of morality, so he's basically wielding the greatest power in the universe with the intent to rebuild it.

My problem with Destroy--as a Paragon, at least--is that you wipe out all the Synthetics. So, you know, Geth and EDI. That really isn't too big an issue if you're Renegade and/or allowed the Geth to get wiped out already (and it really isn't too big an issue for EDI, since Hackett says outright that whatever has been destroyed can just be rebuilt again), but if you're trying to save the most people possible, Destroy is a problematic choice on a couple fronts.

My problem with Synthesis is less plot-related and more with the still-unsound logic of the writing itself. I'm not going to force everyone to be the exact same, homogenous hybrid creature. The entire point of the narrative up to the final decision is that the galaxy has become this harmonious place because of the differences the races have. Synthesizing everyone into the same proto-cyborg mush is just taking away the individuality of the races, the individuality that we've--over the course of this twenty-hour chunk of the series--come to acknowledge as being worthy and important no matter the disparate nature of it.

Also, I think it's a stupid inconsistency that the Starchild literally says, about the evolution that comes as a result of Synthesis, "It can't be forced." And then he has Shepard walk into a beam of light that, well, forces it.

---

tl;dr -- I'd rather have an ending where Shepard sacrifices himself to implant his consciousness in the Reaper Hivemind and allows the civilizations of the galaxy to unfold and grow naturally than an ending that sucks the entirety of life in the universe through a straw against their will or consent and homogenizes every living thing.

@jmic75: I thought they were alright too, but one of the few things I didn't like was that every single thing they added seemed to be there just because of the complaints or opinions on the theory, and not so much what Bioware could have thought up on their own. It all just seemed very fan-service-y, like it was checking boxes off. Also, I kind of disliked when you can ask the star child "Who started the crucible?" or whatever, and he just says something like "It was created seven cycles ago, but you don't know of them, so it's not important." That's like asking the question "Where do humans come from?" and someone says "Oh, well I know the answer to that, but it's not really important, let's move on." Maybe that's just because I love answers, but it also just kind of seemed half-assed. Although it is understandable that Bioware didn't want to divulge into such things. I don't know, I liked it for the most part though and although some of it wasn't equal in quality, it did the job it was meant to.

@HistoryInRust: Wait, is this the one where you go left and it's the one Illusive Man wanted? Where you take control of the reapers? Never mind. I was thinking about the destroy one then. I still think Synthesis, if you don't mind Shepard dying, and DNA intertwining, was the best choice. Yeah though, control would have been my second choice.

Much better. They edited what were the plot holes and wrapped it up nicely.

It's not that I hated the original endings, it's just that it changed a lot of established rules the franchise was running on in a very short timeframe. They failed to really back any of it up with justifications as to why what I was watching on screen was happening, and how I affected anything beyond choosing a different color and making some minor changes in who was coming out of the Normandy and what shape they were in.

By simply adding context to the original endings, they are improved significantly. I think that by taking the time to explain what was going on, and why you were seeing what you're seeing, the DLC accomplishes the task of bringing closure to the Mass Effect universe. That's not to say I find everything about it perfect. The final confrontation with the Illusive Man still makes me make a decision that goes against how I played my Shepard simply because I didn't talk to him in a certain way in one of our conversations. There were problems with my romantic choice feeling a bit insignificant by the time the game was through. However, the fact that I can actually see how my final choice affects the galaxy at large helps add a lot of emotion and closure to what was previously feelings of confusion and disappointment. Also, I didn't hear anything about Mass Effect relays blowing up, so unless I went deaf when it was mentioned, that was a smart move.

Overall, the DLC is worthwhile for the simple fact that it is a better ending thematically. I'm sure there are fair points as to where the DLC falls flat, but for me, it is a success. I just wish that we could've had this originally and avoid all the hoopla to begin with.

@HistoryInRust: I wasn't finished with my reply back to you, anyways. I just wanted to finish by saying I think that by them all having the same type of DNA, it made them closer to each other, and more united, which is the purpose of getting everyone together. I don't think it's as much about them being different and fighting through those differences to reach the same goal. That was the problem at first, but in the end, you just make it so they're more similar than before, and I'm OK with that. I don't have a problem with differences, but synthesis was a good choice to me. Plus, even if they do have the same sort of DNA going through them now, it doesn't make it so they're entirely the same. They're obviously different, and have different histories. I'm pretty sure they'll all live with their names still, it's not like they'll all change their species name. I think there'll still be the individuality in them all, but this just makes them all closer at the same time.

@NTM:

That sounds like a seriously improved ending, and I'm excited. I can't wait to try the new ending out.

@Roger778: Oh, did you read what I wrote on the first page? It is a fine ending. There's a few things wrong with it, some of which are in the game, and I also just kind of question Bioware's actions on it, but overall yes, it was quite good. I feel like I'm just repeating myself now. Ha ha.

These are much better. I didn't have a huge problem with the originals, but these are undeniably improved and better fit what I would have expected for the ending. The crew putting up Commander Shepard's plaque on the Normandy was pretty sad. Feels bad man.

(Tragically) funny thing is that they way they've restructured some of the dialogue between Shepard/Starchild kinda confirms to me that the original version really just was REALLY poorly written. At least the Starchild seems less manipulative and controlling this way, or - at least - less obviously so. Though the whole "they are my solution" to 'when WE were last here' stuff still goes pretty much entirely unanswered. His change of perspective still irks me.

Overall though, the endings gave the one big thing that the original versions did NOT give (as far as I'm concerned): a sense of consequence to the decision. We don't necessarily have to have everything explained, but it's nice to have a bit of CONTEXT to what your decisions meant beyond YOU BLEW UP THE THING, AND THEN THE THING BLEW UP EVERYTHING ELSE, THE END.

... Though the revamped version of the Destroy ending makes the final tease wake-up make even less sense.

i enjoyed the new explained ending. It filled the plot holes which was all i was really concerned about. I think they scrapped the idea of the relays blowing up entirely so that the galaxy doesnt get fucked up. They expand on what happens to your team, which was nice. The only hole left is why shepard is still alive (not that i mind. I hoped there was a way he would live) and where he is.

besides that im entirely happy with the endings

Some of the new stuff seemed really tacked on, but I think that's just because I had already finished the game, so you sort of already knew what was new, and what wasn't.

I really liked the new ending stuff. I picked Synthesis, personally (chose to destroy the Reapers the first time). The added explanations as to the Catalyst's motivations really made the ending feel less like an illogical slap in the face, than it used to. This time, there was no mention of the mass relays being destroyed, and you even see the Normandy take off from that jungle planet at the end. Putting Shepard's plaque up on the wall was pretty emotional, too.

Well done, Bioware. You managed to satisfy a lot of fans, without compromising what your vision for the ending was.

@HistoryInRust said:

Also, I think it's a stupid inconsistency that the Starchild literally says, about the evolution that comes as a result of Synthesis, "It can't be forced." And then he has Shepard walk into a beam of light that, well, forces it.

---

tl;dr -- I'd rather have an ending where Shepard sacrifices himself to implant his consciousness in the Reaper Hivemind and allows the civilizations of the galaxy to unfold and grow naturally than an ending that sucks the entirety of life in the universe through a straw against their will or consent and homogenizes every living thing.

But it's not being forced, at least not on Shepard. In that situation, as the first organic to ever to be given the choice, Shepard is basically the representative of all organic life. So Shepard makes the choice for everyone, but as a leader sometimes that's what they must do, they make a choice for thousands or millions of people because they're the only one in that position of power to make that choice. So, weighing the consequences, I don't think forcing synthesis on organics is all that terrible of a choice for Shepard to make, since as it epilogue mentions it could be the beginning of immortality for all life.

I am a lot happier with the synthesis ending now. I realized my issues with it originally was how vague and inconclusive it originally was. My only question is why add the fourth option?

Could you turn around and Shoot the Crucible instead of the 3 color choices Before the Extended Cut?? Because I did just for the hell of it cause I thought nothing would happen and SOMETHING AWESOME HAPPENED! and yeah, It may have just won me over.

definitely satisfied with the synthesis ending, haven't gotten around to seeing the other endings but yeah i'm pleased so far.

@vikingdeath1 said:

Could you turn around and Shoot the Crucible instead of the 3 color choices Before the Extended Cut?? Because I did just for the hell of it cause I thought nothing would happen and SOMETHING AWESOME HAPPENED! and yeah, It may have just won me over.

Nothing happened if you shot it before.

@jmic75: Maybe fan service wasn't exactly the correct term, I just mean it seems like they did everything to answer the questions people had, but didn't have anything else of their own to add. Like I said, a check list. Also, I pretty much said that it would have been pointless to tell Shepard who it was that created the crucible, I just found it dumb they'd even need to mention it in the first place.

I mean, Shepard asks "who were they" and you don't even get an answer, whether you get an answer or not isn't the purpose though, it's just the fact it was brought up. It's probably one of the questions people may have had, and so it was probably a good thing it was brought up as to make sure Bioware showed they knew the questions the players had, but like I said, it just seemed half-assed in ways and just thrown in to say "Hey, we know you've been thinking about this, we'll add something in so you know we heard you!"

@BoG said:

@MEATBALL said:

Did rainbows explode from Shepard's nipples as a disco ball lowered from the ceiling and a crowd of dancing Elcor emerged from the shadows? If not, worst ending of all time.

Katy Perry Effect

I now regret not picking up The Sims 3: Showtime. Thanks, BoG.